Discuss: What We Can Do - Powers

804 posts / 0 new
Last post
Radiac
Radiac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/19/2013 - 15:12
They showed a few videos, one

They showed a few videos, one of which had "Propel" type animations of cars and toilets being thrust horizontally at targets. I doubt it's terribly hard to turn that into a parabolic trajectory, if you even want to. Whether or not they have "guy throwing object" as a character animation is another story, but I would expect it.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 7 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Interdictor wrote:
Interdictor wrote:

"Burning" seems to cover the most conditions I can envision causing DoT, with the possible exception of "Bleeds" or poisons. Seems to be the best option so far - or at least the most encompassing.

I'd guess there'll be better default damage types than the one for burning, but we have no idea how complex it'll be.

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Gonna re-ask this one 'cause I am still very interested:
Do animations exist for throwing items? Containers, knives, bombs, etc? Is this a prop? Or an aesthetic with throwing animation options?
Thanks!

Throwing stuff is an fx.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
desviper
desviper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 hours 7 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/10/2014 - 00:55
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

MeSoSollyWan wrote:
Gonna re-ask this one 'cause I am still very interested:
Do animations exist for throwing items? Containers, knives, bombs, etc? Is this a prop? Or an aesthetic with throwing animation options?
Thanks!
Throwing stuff is an fx.

E.g. in the Burning set, use knives as the aesthetic, then use a physical damage (or whatever we call stab/slice damage) refinement to make a throwing knife set? Or within a tert?

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

Please have Scaling decals!

Avatar by MikeNovember

Radiac
Radiac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/19/2013 - 15:12
As I understand it, each

As I understand it, each power set will have a few themes that it allows up-front, then you can apply different ones as you acquire them. So Burning Ranged might have "Flames" and "Energy Blasts" at its main theme options at first, then later on you can somehow acquire the ability to change that (either when making a toon and having bought the new kit, or by acquiring the kit for IGC). So you might not have the ability to do "throwing knives as Burning Ranged" at the absolute outset when you make your first toon, but it might be a possibility later as that stuff get's rolled out by the devs in various ways, and as you go around acquiring digital stuff in various ways.

I could be wrong about that though. I'm still fuzzy on the details.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

As I understand it, each power set will have a few themes that it allows up-front, then you can apply different ones as you acquire them. So Burning Ranged might have "Flames" and "Energy Blasts" at its main theme options at first, then later on you can somehow acquire the ability to change that (either when making a toon and having bought the new kit, or by acquiring the kit for IGC). So you might not have the ability to do "throwing knives as Burning Ranged" at the absolute outset when you make your first toon, but it might be a possibility later as that stuff get's rolled out by the devs in various ways, and as you go around acquiring digital stuff in various ways.
I could be wrong about that though. I'm still fuzzy on the details.

Let's make sure we use terminology, nay Lexicon, as specifically as possible. I'm not saying you are wrong, @Radiac, but I think you included enough wiggle-room in your post to potentially confuse people.

Each powerset will have multiple mechanical themes. These mechanical themes are the subsets we saw in the original article under the heading Launch Powers List.

For example, the Protection power set will have the following mechanical themes:

  • Burning
  • Agility
  • Invulnerability
  • Solid Form
  • Grit

We will also get to pick one aesthetic theme which will determine our animations and some of the effects. We have not been told what they are and how they will or will not map to all the mechanical themes, but we know that some of the aesthetic themes mentioned so far are:

  • Pugilist
  • Muai Thai
  • Ice
  • Storms
  • Baseball Bat

among others.

Also, secondary powers sets will have mechanical and aesthetic themes just like Primary powersets.

And since each prop will have its own animations associated with it, when you add a prop you will get additional animation and effects choices in addition to the animation and effects choices associated with your powersets. I don't know if these prop-specific animations and effects are only limited to when/if you use your prop as an origin point.

Finally we'll get to customize the visualizations and effects. I expect that colors and shapes and particles would be on the menu for this. Such that the same power with the same mechanical theme and the same aesthetic theme could potentially look very different.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Soulwind
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 24 min ago
Joined: 11/10/2013 - 06:36
I don't think I've said this

I don't think I've said this since I was 15, but geez next year can't get here fast enough :)

Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
So how is Burning Protection

So how is Burning Protection Power gonna work with Storms theme? Or did I confuse myself

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

So how is Burning Protection Power gonna work with Storms theme? Or did I confuse myself

first, there's this:

Huckleberry wrote:

We have not been told what [the aesthetic themes] are and how they will or will not map to all the mechanical themes...

But I don't think you confused yourself. Since burning is another way of saying Damage Over Time, I'm sure there are storm-related aesthetics and animations that could have the DoT nature associated with the burning theme of the protection powerset.

Of course, that begs the question: what is the mechanics of burning protection?

Let me put forth a guess:
A burning mechanical theme is a theme that causes damage over time in an area around the character. I would also guess that it applies a heal over time to the character and an absorb over time to the character. I would expect that since there is no regeneration theme at launch, that burning will be the regeneration set of choice.

Furthermore, since mechanical themes will also be associated with damage types and resistance types, it may also be that a burning themed protection powerset will be resistant to a burning themed offensive mechanic set. This has been hinted at by the devs and it makes sense.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Wolfgang8565 wrote:
So how is Burning Protection Power gonna work with Storms theme? Or did I confuse myself
first, there's this:
Huckleberry wrote:
We have not been told what [the aesthetic themes] are and how they will or will not map to all the mechanical themes...
But I don't think you confused yourself. Since burning is another way of saying Damage Over Time, I'm sure there are storm-related aesthetics and animations that could have the DoT nature associated with the burning theme of the protection powerset.
Of course, that begs the question: what is the mechanics of burning protection?
Let me put forth a guess:
A burning mechanical theme is a theme that causes damage over time in an area around the character.
I would also guess that it applies a heal over time to the character and an absorb over time to the character. I would expect that since there is no regeneration theme at launch, that burning will be the regeneration set of choice.

Furthermore, since mechanical themes will also be associated with damage types and resistance types, it may also be that a burning themed protection powerset will be resistant to a burning themed offensive mechanic set. This has been hinted at by the devs and it makes sense.

Thanks for explaining this. I am trying to understand this and I keep scratching my head as to why they didn't just go for the simple power sets and just offer a few different animations and color choice. I get it they want variety but I cant wrap my head around this themes stuff and I don't think im the only one.

Hopefully new players will get it easily, or maybe we just need the visuals that go along when you are choosing a power to better understand it.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

So how is Burning Protection Power gonna work with Storms theme? Or did I confuse myself

Aesthetics aren't related to the set. You can pick the fx designed for use of that set. If there are "storm"'fx made to represent protection effects - you can choose those.

As to the actual mechanics, those aren't released yet.

desviper wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
Gonna re-ask this one 'cause I am still very interested:
Do animations exist for throwing items? Containers, knives, bombs, etc? Is this a prop? Or an aesthetic with throwing animation options?
Thanks!
Throwing stuff is an fx.
E.g. in the Burning set, use knives as the aesthetic, then use a physical damage (or whatever we call stab/slice damage) refinement to make a throwing knife set? Or within a tert?

Refinements do not change damage types.
There may be a Power Set Augment which can partially change a damage type. But that was an example of what a Power Set Augment could do,

Themes of fx are separate from the set. If you add a prop, it can be selected as an emmission point, it may also open options for animations related to that prop. Choose a baseball bat would give a typical bat-swing animation (based on which hand is chosen) from one side to the other.

*edited for clarity*


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Soulwind
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 24 min ago
Joined: 11/10/2013 - 06:36
I really do think it's just a

I really do think it's just a matter of us not knowing how all the pieces will fit together.

Given what we have been told so far, I'm feeling confident that it will all just kind of *click* once we see all the
pieces (mechanics, themes, aesthetics) together as a whole entity.

The devs certainly do seem to feel pretty much on top of things here.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

Thanks for explaining this. I am trying to understand this and I keep scratching my head as to why they didn't just go for the simple power sets and just offer a few different animations and color choice. I get it they want variety but I cant wrap my head around this themes stuff and I don't think im the only one.

Hopefully new players will get it easily, or maybe we just need the visuals that go along when you are choosing a power to better understand it.

TBH, I'm not sure I fully understand all of it either. This is one of those things where it's kind of hard to visualize it abstractly, especially with all the newly repurposed "terminology" that hasn't been firmly established yet.

I've read most of what everyone's said but it's effectively like someone trying to tell you what riding a bicycle is like if you've never been on one before. I figure it probably won't become crystal clear until the Devs finally give us their new bicycle and let us try riding it for ourselves.

EDIT: Soulwind sort of beat me to it. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
I just hope when they finally

I just hope when they finally do show us, its not too late to change it if the whole system is a failure. That's my worry. I have too much hope and excitement to be able to play a CoH type game again and my expectations may be too high lol

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

I just hope when they finally do show us, its not too late to change it if the whole system is a failure. That's my worry. I have too much hope and excitement to be able to play a CoH type game again and my expectations may be too high lol

I mean... from what we DO know, there'd have to be a really big unknown factor that is pretty incongruous with what we HAVE seen for it to go that far south.

I guess it's possible, but I don't think it's even slightly likely.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:

I just hope when they finally do show us, its not too late to change it if the whole system is a failure. That's my worry. I have too much hope and excitement to be able to play a CoH type game again and my expectations may be too high lol

Well it might be worth noting that when CoH was first designed it was intended to be a wide open "freeform powers" game. This meant it didn't have the strict ATs or powersets that we all got used to playing with once the game was finally launched.

The working theory (which sounded really cool, at least in theory) was that players would be able to choose practically any powers they wanted for their characters. Naturally when they first started to test it out it was a complete and utter disaster. Under that system everyone built either hyper-overpowered Tank-Mages or absolutely gimped characters with zero DPS capability. The system was simply too free and chaotic to allow people to focus in on reasonably powerful/playable builds. It had to be completely scrapped and rebuilt almost from the ground up. Obviously this was hard for the CoH Devs and took a bunch of extra re-work to come up with the AT/powerset system we finally ended up with.

I mention all this to point out that if by some twist of fate everything the CoT Devs are trying to do here falls apart there's still a chance during the early beta phases to see the problems and hopefully re-work them. I honestly don't think that whatever the CoT Devs are cooking up will be anywhere near as apocalyptic as what the CoH Devs had to go through.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Wolfgang8565 wrote:
I just hope when they finally do show us, its not too late to change it if the whole system is a failure. That's my worry. I have too much hope and excitement to be able to play a CoH type game again and my expectations may be too high lol
Well it might be worth noting that when CoH was first designed it was intended to be a wide open "freeform powers" game. This meant it didn't have the strict ATs or powersets that we all got used to playing with once the game was finally launched.
The working theory (which sounded really cool, at least in theory) was that players would be able to choose practically any powers they wanted for their characters. Naturally when they first started to test it out it was a complete and utter disaster. Under that system everyone built either hyper-overpowered Tank-Mages or absolutely gimped characters with zero DPS capability. The system was simply too free and chaotic to allow people to focus in on reasonably powerful/playable builds. It had to be completely scrapped and rebuilt almost from the ground up. Obviously this was hard for the CoH Devs and took a bunch of extra re-work to come up with the AT/powerset system we finally ended up with.
I mention all this to point out that if by some twist of fate everything the CoT Devs are trying to do here falls apart there's still a chance during the early beta phases to see the problems and hopefully re-work them. I honestly don't think that whatever the CoT Devs are cooking up will be anywhere near as apocalyptic as what the CoH Devs had to go through.

ah ok I see.

Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I honestly don't think that whatever the CoT Devs are cooking up will be anywhere near as apocalyptic as what the CoH Devs had to go through.

Interestingly, it's been pointed out--I think maybe by you, Lothic--that CoH's unique success had as much to do with their mistakes as it did their good choices.

I suspect their mistakes came from thinking in terms of creating a living, breathing Superhero world rather than an MMORPG, and then, luckily, being able to scramble and adjust the things that didn't work as a "game" just enough so that they worked.

I'm not sure where the lesson is in that. Don't be afraid to be too idealistic and then do what it takes to make it work anyway?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

I suspect their mistakes came from thinking in terms of creating a living, breathing Superhero world rather than an MMORPG, and then, luckily, being able to scramble and adjust the things that didn't work as a "game" just enough so that they worked.
I'm not sure where the lesson is in that. Don't be afraid to be too idealistic and then do what it takes to make it work anyway?

I like this, @Empyrean. I think there's a lot to be said about making things interesting first.

Camelot Unchained has done this. They call it their BSC Days development phase. BSC standing for Bat Sh!t Crazy. They thought of the most insane and wondrous ideas first, and then and only then did they think about how to make it work.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 23 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
On the jargon front. What if

On the jargon front. What if all mechanical themes were adjectives, and all aesthetic themes were nouns. So your primary would be named something like Burning.Fire Blast. Or Impactful.Fire Blast. Or Draining Muay Thai. It's not "dumb" proof as that would also generate things like "Burning Ice Blast" the benefit in discussion is that you can quickly distinguish between mechanical effects and aesthetic FX. Of course it's a bit of a mouthful when you start including secondaries when trying to describe your build. Burning.IceBlast/Slowing.IceShard. Which could then be abbreviated as B.IB/S.IS.

Complication is the price of flexibility.

Or we could simply stop referring to powerset mechanics as a theme and just call them mechanics.

All that said. I've started a thread a little while ago for the discussion of jargon in my glossary thread. Let me know what you want defined. https://www.cityoftitans.com/forum/glossary-terms

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Interestingly, it's been pointed out--I think maybe by you, Lothic--that CoH's unique success had as much to do with their mistakes as it did their good choices.

Clearly you can only plan/control so much of the process. Eventually some part of a game like this will always come down to the serendipity of how all the good and bad luck mix together to make a working whole. Like Aristotle said "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts".

Empyrean wrote:

I suspect their mistakes came from thinking in terms of creating a living, breathing Superhero world rather than an MMORPG, and then, luckily, being able to scramble and adjust the things that didn't work as a "game" just enough so that they worked.

I'm not sure where the lesson is in that. Don't be afraid to be too idealistic and then do what it takes to make it work anyway?

Huckleberry wrote:

I like this, @Empyrean. I think there's a lot to be said about making things interesting first.

In specific terms I think CoH's first attempt at the "freeform" powers system came directly from their desire to directly recreate the Champions table-top RPG in computer form. Remember that Champions (or more generally the Hero game system) allows players to dream up literally any kind of power they want for their characters. It's the basic definition of a pure freeform powers system.

But the reason it works in that environment is that you have a human GM who adaptively arbitrates what each power is worth point-wise and generally prevents players from becoming too powerful or too weak. The human GM provides the element of sanity that keeps players from choosing builds that fall outside the thresholds of playability - sadly no such equivalent yet exists for a computerized MMORPG. The only means to moderate such a game without human GM oversight is to build in certain degrees of class structure (i.e. ATs and powersets) so that the game can be self-regulating.

So as to the question of being too idealistic or trying to make things "interesting" first I think the Devs of CoH simply tried to "duplicate Champions in computer form" without fully realizing there were some fundamental differences between "meatspace" RPGs and computerized RPGs. Fortunately the Devs of CoT aren't having to make that kind of leap - they're just trying to reimagine one computer game into a new computer game. Hopefully that'll minimize any need to have to "restart from scratch" scenarios.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

On the jargon front. What if all mechanical themes were adjectives, and all aesthetic themes were nouns. So your primary would be named something like Burning.Fire Blast. Or Impactful.Fire Blast. Or Draining Muay Thai. It's not "dumb" proof as that would also generate things like "Burning Ice Blast" the benefit in discussion is that you can quickly distinguish between mechanical effects and aesthetic FX.

Coming up with a "grammar-based" naming scheme like this would at least bring some standardization to the system. That way we'd know what people are talking about even if they don't follow precise word order in a phrase or sentence when trying to describe different builds. This kind of standardization would probably help out people using English as a second language as well.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Psycout
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 15 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/04/2014 - 12:01
So another question I have is

So another question I have is if animations and fx aren't associated with specific power sets, what will the names of the powers be? Will they be even more simple like blast, hit, throw, shoot, etc. Or will the powers be named accordingly to the theme of your power set? Like if I choose to a fire theme, will my powers be fire breath, inferno, eruption and so on?

blacke4dawn
blacke4dawn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 03/28/2015 - 03:02
Psycout wrote:
Psycout wrote:

So another question I have is if animations and fx aren't associated with specific power sets, what will the names of the powers be? Will they be even more simple like blast, hit, throw, shoot, etc. Or will the powers be named accordingly to the theme of your power set? Like if I choose to a fire theme, will my powers be fire breath, inferno, eruption and so on?

They have stated it before that the names will be in accordance of the mechanics of that power set, not the aesthetics. One of the biggest reasons given was that it would be too much work to come up with unique names especially if they needed it to be unique for each aesthetics-mechanics pairing so that log parsers didn't have to guess not having to make lots conditional checks for secondary effects. But it's also because it's easier for us humans to communicate if we keep mechanics and aesthetics separate when they are made to be handled separately.

Psycout
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 15 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/04/2014 - 12:01
blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

They have stated it before that the names will be in accordance of the mechanics of that power set, not the aesthetics. One of the biggest reasons given was that it would be too much work to come up with unique names especially if they needed it to be unique for each aesthetics-mechanics pairing so that log parsers didn't have to guess not having to make lots conditional checks for secondary effects. But it's also because it's easier for us humans to communicate if we keep mechanics and aesthetics separate when they are made to be handled separately.

That just seems to take a lot of the flavor out of powers. If the powers have super broad names so that they can fit with a bunch of themes, then I feel like a lot of interest will be lost. I want my powers to have aesthetic names as well as effects. It almost seems it would be more difficult coming up with broad names that encompass a variety of themes rather than unique names. It already looks as if it were hard enough as it is to come up with power set names that encompass a variety of themes.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Psycout wrote:
Psycout wrote:

So another question I have is if animations and fx aren't associated with specific power sets, what will the names of the powers be? Will they be even more simple like blast, hit, throw, shoot, etc. Or will the powers be named accordingly to the theme of your power set? Like if I choose to a fire theme, will my powers be fire breath, inferno, eruption and so on?

Each power set has distinctive names for powers which attampt to cover a broad range of themed and also convey some of the function of that power, or at least be distinctive in name in of itself.

Each of the main powers in the set has a unique power name.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Psycout wrote:
Psycout wrote:

That just seems to take a lot of the flavor out of powers. If the powers have super broad names so that they can fit with a bunch of themes, then I feel like a lot of interest will be lost. I want my powers to have aesthetic names as well as effects. It almost seems it would be more difficult coming up with broad names that encompass a variety of themes rather than unique names. It already looks as if it were hard enough as it is to come up with power set names that encompass a variety of themes.

You're right, but now try coming at it from the other direction and see what the possibilities are.

By "taking the flavor out of the powers" the player is free to put the flavor in the powers however they want using multiple aesthetic options and story telling. Your powers WILL have aesthetic names and effects--that you will give to them. And you get to choose exactly what.

It IS hard to come up with broad names--which is why this has been such a persistent topic--but, while it's hard, the payoff is a GREATER range of flavor, aesthetics, and effects that is under much greater control of the player.

Not surprising that the up side is hard to grasp since it's not something any game has done quite to this extent, but hang in there. I think the payoff will be obvious once enough people get their hands on the game.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

blacke4dawn
blacke4dawn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 03/28/2015 - 03:02
The big thing is that MWM now

The big thing is that MWM now only need to come up with names once for each set, when they are created.

If they gave every aesthetic-mechanics combo their own names then MWM would have to come up with new names each and every time they put out a new aesthetics theme or power set to account for all new combos. Depending on how long the game has run that could end up being hundreds of names each time they add aesthetics/powers so in the long run they'll save themselves a lot of work, especially if they want to minimize confusion by having distinct names.

Riptide
Riptide's picture
Offline
Last seen: 42 min 16 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 07:01
If the macroing system is

If the macroing system is like we had in CoX, and there's no reason to believe it won't be at least as robust, you could create macros for each power and name them whatever you want.

Even if they came up with customized names for every power/aesthetic combination, there's no guarantee that the name would match your concept.

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Flava from da playa!

Flava from da playa!

On the one hand, maybe we could have some client-side-only UI thing that lets you rename powers. Basically just like Rigel's use of macros but with one less level of indirection. And it would have to be per-character, too. Hypothetically, let's say we do that. Then discussions get hard, because players will talk about powers using the names they've assigned, and if they don't tell everyone what they named what, folks will get confused.

Long ago, my friends and I would play Final Fantasy games, but we'd confuse each other because we'd rename all the characters (you got to do that when they joined your party) to different names for each of us. So I'm talking about Ryouko, my friend is talking about Bulma, and we're actually both talking about Terra. Given there were some 10 or so characters per game, the mental lookup tables got big. And, of course, if we went to a convention and talked with other people that did that... Yay, O(N^2) problem.

We gave up on renaming not long after that.

So "should we allow renaming in the UI" is a valid question folks can discuss. (Not that we'll be able to cook up a renaming UI in the time available...)

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

On the one hand, maybe we could have some client-side-only UI thing that lets you rename powers.

With all the various power customizations we're going to have in this game I already figured it was going to be difficult to "compare" two characters side-by-side anyway. I mean in CoH if you said "Fire Tank" an experienced player probably had a reasonable chance to know what that "looked" like and how it "played". Now in CoT you could probably put two characters side-by-side with the exact same build power-wise but have them look/animate almost completely like proverbial apples and oranges.

Yes potentially having the ability to customize our power names might further confuse things but I think we we're already well on the path toward utter confusion in those terms anyway.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Yes potentially having the ability to customize our power names might further confuse things but I think we we're already well on the path toward utter confusion in those terms anyway.

No need to intentionally "floor it" in that direction then.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Yes potentially having the ability to customize our power names might further confuse things but I think we we're already well on the path toward utter confusion in those terms anyway.
No need to intentionally "floor it" in that direction then.

Eh, this is one of those issues that I think I'm completely 50/50 on. I totally accept the idea that there's no reason to "make things worse" by allowing for power name customization. On the other hand we are specifically talking about "restricting" a certain type of customization that would probably be (all things being equal) a relatively easy thing to implement. It's hard to argue -against- any form of customization for this game.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 11 sec ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
I'd make a comment about

I'd make a comment about Archetype & Specialization naming schemes, but that wouldn't be the proper direction to take this.

I say we should go full hog on this full customization & lore based approach. We should embrace a truly full & open approach to the naming scheme. We should completely break free from the archetype harness. Name your powers however you want so it makes sense to you. That way when you describe it people they'll have a loose understanding, then they will totally get it when they see it in action. The water is going to be so muddied by the complexity of the archetypes/specializations, the powers available and all of the aesthetic decoupling that everyone can look like anything and do completely unexpected things.

Describe yourself by what you do or what motivates you. Or better yet, let others talk about what you do. It sorta follows along the lines of you never give yourself a nickname, others create that legend for you.

Superman isn't a Tank with Super Strength and a Flight travel power. He is a hero that is faster than a speeding bullet, leaps over buildings in a single bound, etc etc.

Restrict the cold hard nomenclature to the confines of the Character Creator. The character should live and breathe and evolve out in the game world.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry's picture
Offline
Last seen: 19 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 01/03/2016 - 08:39
I see two main problems with

I see two main problems with custom names:

  1. There will be some people who will complain that with custom power names, the combat log will be useless.
  2. There will also be problems with troubleshooting and communicating with the community or with the developers.

While I support custom naming and say tough nibbles to the complainers about the combat logs, I do think that there should be a system nomenclature for every power to account for the second problem. And since there should be a system nomenclature for each power, we may as well use it in the combat logs too.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
That is easily remedied by

That is easily remedied by putting standard "low-level" power names in the log as well as the "high-level" custom name. Assuming the custom name isn't just dropped.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

Describe yourself by what you do or what motivates you. Or better yet, let others talk about what you do. It sorta follows along the lines of you never give yourself a nickname, others create that legend for you.

Superman isn't a Tank with Super Strength and a Flight travel power. He is a hero that is faster than a speeding bullet, leaps over buildings in a single bound, etc etc.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/PS238

Quote:

Flying Brick:

  • Deconstructed as being a F.I.S.S. (flight, invulnerability, strength and speed). This package is so common that F.I.S.S. heroes are given a number, and often know their number without much thought. Julie, one of the current PS238 students, is number 84, which ties into her character development greatly, especially when she inspires a huge number of F.I.S.S. heroes to take their numbers as hero names, and she ends up accidentally founding the Infinity Vanguard, a super-hero group primarily for Flying Bricks.
  • Further deconstructed when Earth makes contact with Argos. Flying bricks rule the planet in noble houses with normal people (called "softies") as an oppressed underclass. All other superpowers are referred to as "ferals" and are implied to have been culled from the Argosian gene pool long ago.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

That is easily remedied by putting standard "low-level" power names in the log as well as the "high-level" custom name. Assuming the custom name isn't just dropped.

A while back we discussed customized naming and while the client side may be something we leave open to modding, the aerver side isn't going customizable. On our end, names will be cohesive in how players natively can see them.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

That is easily remedied by putting standard "low-level" power names in the log as well as the "high-level" custom name. Assuming the custom name isn't just dropped.

A while back we discussed customized naming and while the client side may be something we leave open to modding, the aerver side isn't going customizable. On our end, names will be cohesive in how players natively can see them.

Yeah this is pretty much how I envisioned this working: Any customized power renaming would be essentially be client-side only string replacements primarily just for the power tray GUIs. As far as the game communicating with the server goes (i.e. combat logs) it would only use the built-in default names.

The "problem" still remains that players might try to refer to their own powers (perhaps during RP) using their own renames to other players in chat or some-such so there'd still could be weird disconnects between what players are talking about to each other.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Felix
Felix's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 months 6 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/04/2013 - 20:45
Elios Valoryn wrote:
Elios Valoryn wrote:

I think deteriorating is a better word than corrosive, corrosive doesnt sound dark, more so acidic.

I like necrotizing, like you are being eaten away.

Regards.

Felix

Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
Coding Lead
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The "problem" still remains that players might try to refer to their own powers (perhaps during RP) using their own renames to other players in chat or some-such so there'd still could be weird disconnects between what players are talking about to each other.

Ultimately, that's kind of a caveat emptor situation in which it's not MWM's responsibility to "protect" people from their own actions.

If you use non-standard terminology in a game with a standardized terminology set, the mistake is on You™ rather than on MWM for any confusion that arises within the game when interacting with anyone else, whether the conditions be RP or otherwise.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 2 days ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
The management is not

The management is not responsible for lost or misplaced minds.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 18 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The "problem" still remains that players might try to refer to their own powers (perhaps during RP) using their own renames to other players in chat or some-such so there'd still could be weird disconnects between what players are talking about to each other.

Ultimately, that's kind of a caveat emptor situation in which it's not MWM's responsibility to "protect" people from their own actions.

If you use non-standard terminology in a game with a standardized terminology set, the mistake is on You™ rather than on MWM for any confusion that arises within the game when interacting with anyone else, whether the conditions be RP or otherwise.

Yeah I'm just highlighting that there can ironically be "downsides" that come with too many customization options. Still in this case I think the option to rename our own powers is probably worth the potential extra confusion, especially since we're already going to have the power animation/color "confusion" regardless.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Online
Last seen: 10 min 47 sec ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Well, first "dark" was a place-holder name. As i said earlier, there was an access issue and the wrong data got pulled for our launch list.

I'm necroing this thread a bit because I'm curious about this. Is it possible at this time to see an updated launch list? Very curious as to what powersets we'll be starting off with. :)

Radiac
Radiac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/19/2013 - 15:12
I don't think there's

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving the power sets a descriptive name based on whatever the first-pass garden variety version of it is. Go ahead and call a powerset "Dark" if you want and then let people change the animations to bright pink laser beams. It might not make a lot of sense to call that power set "Dark" anymore, but with aesthetic decoupling that's going to happen regardless, because it's not what _I_, the creator of the toon, would have called it anyway, and it would never have been that.

I mean, there's probably not going to be a power set called "Radiation" in CoT so I can already tell I'll have to use something else and put green radiation-y-looking graphics on it. Thus, my choice of powerset is going to be guided more by the availability of the graphics and the mechanics I want. Does it have an available animation suite that evokes "radiation" to me, when colored green? What sort of mechanics does it have? DoT? etc etc. Whether the original powerset I choose is called "Energy" or "Force" or "Dark" or "Fire" is at that point irrelevant to me, and as such it would make no real difference to me if it were called "Laser Beams" or "Fire" or anything else. Whatever it was called, I stripped that off and replaced it with whatever my idea for the toon is anyway.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving the power sets a descriptive name based on whatever the first-pass garden variety version of it is. Go ahead and call a powerset "Dark" if you want and then let people change the animations to bright pink laser beams. It might not make a lot of sense to call that power set "Dark" anymore, but with aesthetic decoupling that's going to happen regardless, because it's not what _I_, the creator of the toon, would have called it anyway, and it would never have been that.
I mean, there's probably not going to be a power set called "Radiation" in CoT so I can already tell I'll have to use something else and put green radiation-y-looking graphics on it. Thus, my choice of powerset is going to be guided more by the availability of the graphics and the mechanics I want. Does it have an available animation suite that evokes "radiation" to me, when colored green? What sort of mechanics does it have? DoT? etc etc. Whether the original powerset I choose is called "Energy" or "Force" or "Dark" or "Fire" is at that point irrelevant to me, and as such it would make no real difference to me if it were called "Laser Beams" or "Fire" or anything else. Whatever it was called, I stripped that off and replaced it with whatever my idea for the toon is anyway.

The original concept was to have a range of aesthetics around a theme, such ss "burning". The current design will let you apply any particle fx to any power, and a vast majority of animations. It isn't a matter of "what will it look like colored green", when any set can be made to look practically like anything.

What happens when you have "dark" with Ice particle fx, or with a sword and typical striking fx, or with by more outlandish things like...throwing butterflies sprinkling fairy dust.?

The name should at least invoke something of the mechanics to impart at least an immediate understanding of what a set is about. Stuff like "dark" does not impart an immediate mechanical concept, and has a connotation for those familair with the old game.

I'm at work iterating our launch sets to be ready for porting into our Power Designer tool (which creates and drives powers in the engine). Part of the iteration is updating set and power names accordingly.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 sec ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Tannim, would it be possible

Tannim, would it be possible to give some more examples on how aesthetic decoupling works with the armor sets?

Can you have butterflies floating around you as "armor"?

When picking an armor set, what kinds of options are there mechanically?

Thank you!

Radiac
Radiac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 3 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/19/2013 - 15:12
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Radiac wrote:
I don't think there's anything wrong with giving the power sets a descriptive name based on whatever the first-pass garden variety version of it is. Go ahead and call a powerset "Dark" if you want and then let people change the animations to bright pink laser beams. It might not make a lot of sense to call that power set "Dark" anymore, but with aesthetic decoupling that's going to happen regardless, because it's not what _I_, the creator of the toon, would have called it anyway, and it would never have been that.
I mean, there's probably not going to be a power set called "Radiation" in CoT so I can already tell I'll have to use something else and put green radiation-y-looking graphics on it. Thus, my choice of powerset is going to be guided more by the availability of the graphics and the mechanics I want. Does it have an available animation suite that evokes "radiation" to me, when colored green? What sort of mechanics does it have? DoT? etc etc. Whether the original powerset I choose is called "Energy" or "Force" or "Dark" or "Fire" is at that point irrelevant to me, and as such it would make no real difference to me if it were called "Laser Beams" or "Fire" or anything else. Whatever it was called, I stripped that off and replaced it with whatever my idea for the toon is anyway.
The original concept was to have a range of aesthetics around a theme, such ss "burning". The current design will let you apply any particle fx to any power, and a vast majority of animations. It isn't a matter of "what will it look like colored green", when any set can be made to look practically like anything.
What happens when you have "dark" with Ice particle fx, or with a sword and typical striking fx, or with by more outlandish things like...throwing butterflies sprinkling fairy dust.?
The name should at least invoke something of the mechanics to impart at least an immediate understanding of what a set is about. Stuff like "dark" does not impart an immediate mechanical concept, and has a connotation for those familiar with the old game.
I'm at work iterating our launch sets to be ready for porting into our Power Designer tool (which creates and drives powers in the engine). Part of the iteration is updating set and power names accordingly.

I see your point. You also want the name to describe things like "ranged/melee" and "attacks/buffs/debuffs/defense" I would think. For that you probably need every set to have a two-word name, like "Burning Melee" or "Burning Ranged" etc. That said, some sets in CoX worked well in and of themselves, but were a little scattered in terms of having an coherent mechanics-based theme and sticking to it. Dark had a lot of different effects, like Fear, -ACC, etc. Plus a lot of mechanics stuff is so ubiquitous that naming a set after it is almost bad because other sets will do a lot of the same.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Tannim, would it be possible to give some more examples on how aesthetic decoupling works with the armor sets?
Can you have butterflies floating around you as "armor"?
When picking an armor set, what kinds of options are there mechanically?
Thank you!

Buttterflies was me being a bit hyperbolic, not a promise of an aesthetic. For armor sets, it comes down to...as many aesthetic particle effects that are made.

I am not at liberty to discuss the mechanics of power sets at this time. I can say each set is designed around a play style with variances in how each set operates within that play style.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Pyromantic
Pyromantic's picture
Online
Last seen: 10 min 47 sec ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 08:20
I would like to refine my

I would like to refine my question a little bit. (If you can say,) Did the launch list we saw have "the wrong data" only in the sense that some of the names were more intended to represent theme than mechanics, or in the sense that some of the sets listed are not slated for launch and/or there may be other sets not listed that will be included?

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 20 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Buttterflies was me being a bit hyperbolic, not a promise of an aesthetic.

Wait, no Butterflies? NUTS! I was planning a character that summoned and projected Fire Butterflies!

Oh well.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Pyromantic wrote:
Pyromantic wrote:

I would like to refine my question a little bit. (If you can say,) Did the launch list we saw have "the wrong data" only in the sense that some of the names were more intended to represent theme than mechanics, or in the sense that some of the sets listed are not slated for launch and/or there may be other sets not listed that will be included?

All of the above.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 20 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
One question I have, which I

One question I have, which I assume has already been answered, so sorry if it's been asked and answered before, are we going to be able to edit the names of the individual powers? For example, changing the name of the toon Cat-tastrophe's power Cannon blaster to Kitty Cannon, with which aesthetic decoupling makes that exactly what it sounds like... :3 *glares at Amerikatt menacingly*

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 20 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
If I recall, the answer is

If I recall, the answer is 'nah'. It would cause too many problems. You _Might_ be able to mod your client-side UI to display your custom names for things, but the server is going to ignore that.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 20 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
Well I was assuming the

Well I was assuming the server would ignore it anyways, it would only be for personal preference. Of course the actual name of the power is still Cannon Blaster, but on the instance of the character account, you will see the custom names along with the power to change it back to default. If what you say is correct then it's not that big of deal, and I can definitely survive without it. It's just a QoL feature that gives people that little extra bit of freedom and customization, and I'm all for that kind of stuff.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 23 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
If "dark" functions like the

If "dark" functions like the various /dark/s in COT it might actually be fitting. Consider that the powerset's function was to reduce the enemies ability to accurately attack you. As would happen if the lights suddenly went out. If you keep that analogy in the powerset description I think most people will get it. Your other option is "Blinding" which I feel is a bit too specific but may be closer to where you are going. DrT I think there is a sub forum you've used to get feed back on naming in the past and despite the initial "Waaaagh" of which I admit to playing no small part, I think that we did eventually come to a useful conclusion. I think we could easily do it again. Great minds think for themselves but together overcome the greatest challenges.

I'm a little surprised to hear about the mix up on the initial post. Perhaps I didn't see it, but was that ever corrected? I've see games burned for such errors. You can't let incorrect data permeate. Everything the dev's say is canon until their work proves them wrong. At which point there is no iFury like a gamer scorned.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

Amerikatt
Amerikatt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/27/2013 - 08:54
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

*glares at Amerikatt menacingly*

*strikes an heroic pose*

*purrs loudly and proudly*

MRRRRRRRAWWWRRRR!!! ["Naughty Spawn, surrender or there will be ... trouble!!!"]

Just a cat from another star!
Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

If "dark" functions like the various /dark/s in COT it might actually be fitting. Consider that the powerset's function was to reduce the enemies ability to accurately attack you. As would happen if the lights suddenly went out. If you keep that analogy in the powerset description I think most people will get it. Your other option is "Blinding" which I feel is a bit too specific but may be closer to where you are going. DrT I think there is a sub forum you've used to get feed back on naming in the past and despite the initial "Waaaagh" of which I admit to playing no small part, I think that we did eventually come to a useful conclusion. I think we could easily do it again. Great minds think for themselves but together overcome the greatest challenges.

There is more to it than that. Dark only makes sense in those very specific mechanics or to players familiar with the old game. The set has other mechanics and a very appropriate terminology.

Grimfox wrote:

I'm a little surprised to hear about the mix up on the initial post. Perhaps I didn't see it, but was that ever corrected? I've see games burned for such errors. You can't let incorrect data permeate. Everything the dev's say is canon until their work proves them wrong. At which point there is no iFury like a gamer scorned.

It was a matter of access. An dev had two accounts, one of themnwas kept as primary which had access to old data. Due to miscommunication over this, the old account was given access to everything else.

When the data was pulled for the update, there was a time crunch, but aware that something was off, only posted those names here on the main site. They were not included with the KS update.

This brought the account access issue to light and has since been corrected. The launch sets are being iterated currently, as I stated earlier, and when we're comfortable that the coding (we've tested the basic functions in the engine, it is a matter of coheisive code now) is suitably in place for all the mechanics (many of the mechanics lay foundations for future expanded use in othet sets), we will release the updated Power Set names.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Interdictor
Interdictor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 54 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/22/2013 - 05:26
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

If "dark" functions like the various /dark/s in COT it might actually be fitting. Consider that the powerset's function was to reduce the enemies ability to accurately attack you. As would happen if the lights suddenly went out. If you keep that analogy in the powerset description I think most people will get it.

It gets a bit more complicated because there were a lot of death-themed or necromantic powers in the various dark sets so it was a little bit more than simple darkness or lack of light. It will be interesting to see what the devs come up with in regards to set names.

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Wait, no Butterflies? NUTS! I was planning a character that summoned and projected Fire Butterflies!

Butterflies that sound like a dive bombing Ju-87 when attacking ...


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 20 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
That 'death' and 'necromantic

That 'death' and 'necromantic' part of Dark was flavor, rather than mechanics. The actual powers came down to Buff/Debuff, with an accuracy debuff consistent throughout. Certain powers did have a 'fear' effect that made some targets run away, or otherwise 'freeze' like any other 'hold' effect and others were more explicitly 'holds', or 'slows'.

I built a whole character around subverting the 'death' theme in Dark and turning it to 'life'.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 20 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Wait, no Butterflies? NUTS! I was planning a character that summoned and projected Fire Butterflies!

Butterflies that sound like a dive bombing Ju-87 when attacking ...

Or, imagine Frost Butterflies with the quiet, but oh so disturbing hiss of falling snow/ice... followed by the CRACK of being encased in Ice, when they land.

Soft green Poison Butterflies... Butterflies that release Chaos on contact? Hurricane-summoning Butterflies.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Riptide
Riptide's picture
Offline
Last seen: 42 min 16 sec ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 07:01
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
Wait, no Butterflies? NUTS! I was planning a character that summoned and projected Fire Butterflies!
Butterflies that sound like a dive bombing Ju-87 when attacking ...
Or, imagine Frost Butterflies with the quiet, but oh so disturbing hiss of falling snow/ice... followed by the CRACK of being encased in Ice, when they land.
Soft green Poison Butterflies... Butterflies that release Chaos on contact? Hurricane-summoning Butterflies.
Be Well!
Fireheart

Gives a whole new meaning to The Butterfly Effect

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 23 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
Butterflies like the ones

Butterflies like the ones from the Cowboy Bebop movie? Sounds like an awesome mez set. The butterflies float around their targets and the targets just stand there and stare, so serene, so calm, like...death.

I really want a fire butterfly now. Imagine a set where the dots last a very long time but don't deal heavy damage. So the player has to stack them deep. It starts as a spark but it grows until the entire field of battle is a raging inferno of fiery butterflies.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

blacke4dawn
blacke4dawn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 03/28/2015 - 03:02
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I really want a fire butterfly now. Imagine a set where the dots last a very long time but don't deal heavy damage. So the player has to stack them deep. It starts as a spark but it grows until the entire field of battle is a raging inferno of fiery butterflies.

Hmm, wonder if they could make the number of butterflies directly correlate to the number of stacks on the target. Would be fun seeing them grow in numbers as the number of stacks increase.

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 15 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

Sounds like an awesome mez set. The butterflies float around their targets and the targets just stand there and stare, so serene, so calm, like...death.

City of Statues watching Butterflies?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 23 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
I'll take it.

I'll take it.

(at)Roxanna - Little Sister - Plutonium Bloom - MilkShakes
Triumph
Guardian
Virtue

Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 20 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Must... Watch... Butterflies!

Must... Watch... Butterflies!

Evil Butterflies.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
You summon a cascade of

You summon a cascade of butterflies that surround your form and create this giant butterfly armored monster!

Amerikatt
Amerikatt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 days ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/27/2013 - 08:54
I like butterflies!

I like butterflies!

*purrs*

*chases butterflies*

*catches one*

*wraps paws around it*

*places butterfly on nose*

*watches it flap its wings while perched on her nose*

*looks at it through crossed eyes*

*watches it fly away*

*chases it again*

*catches it again*

*plays with it again and again and again*

*snoozes from such exhaustication*

Just a cat from another star!
MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 sec ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Tannim, I have a question

Tannim, I have a question about sound effects:

Are there varying sound effects that are assigned to each animation? Or will they pull together two sounds if a prop is used? i.e. an Icy Sword would put the "chill" sound and the "slice" sound together?

Or do we get to choose?

I ask because I am remembering when City of * added alternative animation options, the audio did not properly sync up with most attacks because they were created solely for the initial animation. This led to situations like Martial Arts attacks moving completely separately from their sounds.

Ultimately I think what I am asking is, are you guys developing something to avoid that desync in audio?

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Tannim, I have a question about sound effects:
Are there varying sound effects that are assigned to each animation? Or will they pull together two sounds if a prop is used? i.e. an Icy Sword would put the "chill" sound and the "slice" sound together?
Or do we get to choose?
I ask because I am remembering when City of * added alternative animation options, the audio did not properly sync up with most attacks because they were created solely for the initial animation. This led to situations like Martial Arts attacks moving completely separately from their sounds.
Ultimately I think what I am asking is, are you guys developing something to avoid that desync in audio?

The plan is to have sfx connected with both animation and particle effects. Since weapon props dictate animation, you get the sfx for that weapon prop.

Choosing the particle effects gets you sfx which goes with that particle fx. Since particle fx imparts the hit fx on the target, that is the sound you'll hear when your power hits.

There may br some level of tweaking by the sfx dev which will change certain aspects of sounds if they don't mesh well together.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 sec ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Thanks, Tannim!

Thanks, Tannim!

MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 sec ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Sorry to Necro this thread, I

Sorry to Necro this thread, I just gotta ask/point something out.

In two days time it'll have been a year (I KNOW RIGHT??) since we got this official look at Aesthetic Decoupling. Since then, we've gotten tidbits of info on limitations and options we might see, and if the devs are sticking to their original schedule, we should get a larger update sometime next week so maaaaybe the devs have something planned for the anniversary of the reveal... but one thing that still has not been uncovered is:

How will Defensive sets and Personal toggles work aesthetically? What kinds of options will we have? Will it just be "aura style" like Co*, or can we change it to have things orbiting us? Like fireballs, or radiation, or Kirby Crackle(Dots)?

What does Aesthetic Decoupling look like for sets like Atrophic Aura, Grit, and Solid Form?

blacke4dawn
blacke4dawn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 03/28/2015 - 03:02
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Sorry to Necro this thread, I just gotta ask/point something out.

In two days time it'll have been a year (I KNOW RIGHT??) since we got this official look at Aesthetic Decoupling. Since then, we've gotten tidbits of info on limitations and options we might see, and if the devs are sticking to their original schedule, we should get a larger update sometime next week so maaaaybe the devs have something planned for the anniversary of the reveal... but one thing that still has not been uncovered is:

How will Defensive sets and Personal toggles work aesthetically? What kinds of options will we have? Will it just be "aura style" like Co*, or can we change it to have things orbiting us? Like fireballs, or radiation, or Kirby Crackle(Dots)?

What does Aesthetic Decoupling look like for sets like Atrophic Aura, Grit, and Solid Form?

I would say this question is not only relevant to personal protection but rather to any persistent effect regardless of target. That is any buff, debuff, and even DoT effect.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Sorry to Necro this thread, I just gotta ask/point something out.

In two days time it'll have been a year (I KNOW RIGHT??) since we got this official look at Aesthetic Decoupling. Since then, we've gotten tidbits of info on limitations and options we might see, and if the devs are sticking to their original schedule, we should get a larger update sometime next week so maaaaybe the devs have something planned for the anniversary of the reveal... but one thing that still has not been uncovered is:

How will Defensive sets and Personal toggles work aesthetically? What kinds of options will we have? Will it just be "aura style" like Co*, or can we change it to have things orbiting us? Like fireballs, or radiation, or Kirby Crackle(Dots)?

What does Aesthetic Decoupling look like for sets like Atrophic Aura, Grit, and Solid Form?

I would say this question is not only relevant to personal protection but rather to any persistent effect regardless of target. That is any buff, debuff, and even DoT effect.

It is no different, you choose an animation for the activation. You choose a particle fx. Protection powers and buffs need to have an indication of activity. These vary of course.

And we can do some fun stuff with fx on the body if we want.

Buffs like shields and such all will be customizable.

Effects liken DoTs follow the particle fx theme chosen for the power.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 sec ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

You choose a particle fx. Protection powers and buffs need to have an indication of activity. These vary of course.

And we can do some fun stuff with fx on the body if we want.

How often does the indication effect proc? Few seconds? And is that customizable too?

What kind of body fx are you guys toying with? Could you give an example?

Thanks a bunch for replying, Tannim.

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

You choose a particle fx. Protection powers and buffs need to have an indication of activity. These vary of course.

And we can do some fun stuff with fx on the body if we want.

How often does the indication effect proc? Few seconds? And is that customizable too?

What kind of body fx are you guys toying with? Could you give an example?

Thanks a bunch for replying, Tannim.

The indicators are hard baked. You won’t be messing with those. There isn’t a hard rule because different fx at different rates can trigger seizures, migraines, etc..

I can’t give specifics on what we will do. Sorry.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
MeSoSollyWan
MeSoSollyWan's picture
Online
Last seen: 11 sec ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/18/2014 - 00:54
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The indicators are hard baked. You won’t be messing with those. There isn’t a hard rule because different fx at different rates can trigger seizures, migraines, etc..

I can’t give specifics on what we will do. Sorry.

No problem, thanks for sharing what you can.

One last question on this if you get the time:

Will all armor toggles (or whatever) have the same indicators? Or will they vary slightly per power, so to avoid something like "7 different colors of fireballs orbiting the same path" on a character?

Tannim222
Tannim222's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The indicators are hard baked. You won’t be messing with those. There isn’t a hard rule because different fx at different rates can trigger seizures, migraines, etc..

I can’t give specifics on what we will do. Sorry.

No problem, thanks for sharing what you can.

One last question on this if you get the time:

Will all armor toggles (or whatever) have the same indicators? Or will they vary slightly per power, so to avoid something like "7 different colors of fireballs orbiting the same path" on a character?

Well there is a limit to the number of fx themes you can have. Right now it is 2 across all Powers. Coloring is different. As to the concern of seeing too many “aura effects” - we hear you.

Right now I know we want to allow a setting to limit fx effects of other players and reduce when camera is close, as well as other performance related options. Which isn’t a direct answer to your question I know.

This is more or less something we will be tackling through iteration and feedback from testing.


I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.
Empyrean
Empyrean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 10 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 03/16/2014 - 07:51
Someone may have asked this

Someone may have asked this before somewhere, but can the indicators be turned off for PC's outside of PvP? I understand the need for them on PC's in PvP and on mobs on PvE, but they're mostly just unnecessary visual noise on PC's in PvE.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Online
Last seen: 3 min 59 sec ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
I'd like to request options

I'd like to request options where possible, so that those who don't want a lot of visual feedback can turn it off, but those of us who want the maximum allowed by the engine can get that. Especially if that max goes up in the future.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 18 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Protection powers and buffs need to have an indication of activity. These vary of course.

And we can do some fun stuff with fx on the body if we want.

When people ask me about my religion, I tell 'em I'd worship Cthulhu.

How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

Pages