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Discuss: What We Can Do - Powers

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Radiac
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My thoughts

My thoughts

1. As Tannim222 said, any flavory descriptive name is better than Melee_Set_01_Power_01. Even if the description is not generic enough to allow all possible ideas to fit with it in your head, it's just the name of the set, and you can pretend it's something else if you really want to. Assuming there are macros, like CoX had, theoretically you could make macro buttons for every power you use and as such call each power what YOU want it to be called instead of the name the devs gave it. Radiac might take the ranged Burning set and do it up with green energy blast animations from his eyes, and call it "radiation" if he wants to. In chat I'd still identify myself as a Burning/whatever Guardian or something.

2. Every power set will likely have a prototype or garden variety example of itself that shows up in the game somewhere at first blush. This might be the default animation suite applied to the power set in the avatar builder, or it might be the theme that the iconic character in the game lore uses for that set (or both). Either way, that doesn't limit what we the players can do with the power sets, especially when new animations etc come out and you can buy a suite that makes Burning look like fluid or ice shards or sand blasts instead of flames or energy blasts.

3. If "Fear effects" is the theme of the "Dark" set, why not just call it "Fear" instead of "Dark"? It sounds like "Fear" is a mechanic, like Burning, the way it's being described here. If copyright is a problem, call it "Scare" or "Terrify" or something.

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Alright so are these more

Alright so are these more like placeholders than the actual names of the powers? If it's not we should atleast provide each power with a small power that says what the power does at it's basic form attached to the powersets

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I mean I'm really bringing

I mean I'm really bringing this up because, well I know that the target audience is people who liked CoX, but I'm starting to worry whether or not we're focusing to much on that small part...if this game is going to get bigger, well we still have to get newer people into the game, people who've never played CoX before, and is just being introduced to the superhero MMO through us. I mean I may be over reacting... definatly assuming things I really shouldn't that's for sure.... but well I do want to see this game become something big...

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Nah, "tactical" is when you

Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

More like 'tacticool', amirite?

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

Damn you, now I want such a gun as a prop.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

Did you forget the grenade launcher?

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

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OK this post is more like a

OK this post is more like a formal protest against Seth MacFarlane but since it's vaguely related to a power concept I wanted to do for a character in CoT I think it fits on this thread well enough.

For those of you who don't know MacFarlane is finally going to be doing a live action Star Trek spoof show this fall. It's called The Orville and it basically looks like it's going to be mix of Galaxy Quest and Other Space.

The reason I'm mentioning it here is that there's going to be a character on the show named Alara Kitan who's described as "a young inexperienced security officer from a planet where high gravity makes her stronger." The part about "a young woman from another planet where high gravity makes her stronger" is almost an exact ripoff of an idea I had for a future CoT character. The real clincher is that the character I wanted to do in CoT almost looks like Alara Kitan - it's like Seth reached into my mind and stole my idea telepathically!

P.S. I know that this whole thing was entirely coincidental and I'm not seriously going to sue MacFarlane over this. It's just rather creepy to see what I thought was "my" character appearing on a new TV show like this. ;)

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i thought talked about this

i thought talked about this Mc Farlane ^^


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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The reason I'm mentioning it here is that there's going to be a character on the show named Alara Kitan who's described as "a young inexperienced security officer from a planet where high gravity makes her stronger." The part about "a young woman from another planet where high gravity makes her stronger" is almost an exact ripoff of an idea I had for a future CoT character. The real clincher is that the character I wanted to do in CoT almost looks like Alara Kitan - it's like Seth reached into my mind and stole my idea telepathically!
P.S. I know that this whole thing was entirely coincidental and I'm not seriously going to sue MacFarlane over this. It's just rather creepy to see what I thought was "my" character appearing on a new TV show like this. ;)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie-27 (wikipedia): "Charlie-27 is a member of a genetically engineered offshoot of humanity whose traits were designed for survival under the heavy gravity conditions of the planet Jupiter. As such, he has superhuman strength, and enhanced durability and stamina."

Charlie-27 was a member of the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy, in the version of the comic before they rewired it with Star-Lord etc. Not that I'm accusing anyone of stealing ideas from anyone, we all know that there's a ton of cross-talk among the big comic companies (Vision and the Red Tornado, Professor X and the X-Men / Niles Caulder and Doom Patrol, etc). Frankly there aren't really any new ideas, if you ask me.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The reason I'm mentioning it here is that there's going to be a character on the show named Alara Kitan who's described as "a young inexperienced security officer from a planet where high gravity makes her stronger." The part about "a young woman from another planet where high gravity makes her stronger" is almost an exact ripoff of an idea I had for a future CoT character. The real clincher is that the character I wanted to do in CoT almost looks like Alara Kitan - it's like Seth reached into my mind and stole my idea telepathically!

P.S. I know that this whole thing was entirely coincidental and I'm not seriously going to sue MacFarlane over this. It's just rather creepy to see what I thought was "my" character appearing on a new TV show like this. ;)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie-27 (wikipedia): "Charlie-27 is a member of a genetically engineered offshoot of humanity whose traits were designed for survival under the heavy gravity conditions of the planet Jupiter. As such, he has superhuman strength, and enhanced durability and stamina."
Charlie-27 was a member of the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy, in the version of the comic before they rewired it with Star-Lord etc. Not that I'm accusing anyone of stealing ideas from anyone, we all know that there's a ton of cross-talk among the big comic companies (Vision and the Red Tornado, Professor X and the X-Men / Niles Caulder and Doom Patrol, etc). Frankly there aren't really any new ideas, if you ask me.

Do you seriously think that I think I was the very first person in history to think of the incredibly simplistic character concept of a person from heavy gravity planet having super human like strength in normal gravity? Please... Not only am I sure you could dig up a dozen other variations of that theme in comic books but even that cheesy 1970's Buck Rogers TV show had an episode where there was a villain who basically embodied the entire concept. Check out the following vid starting at around the 28:20 mark:

You could even look to the relatively bad John Carter movie as another example (highlighting Super Jumping):

So no I don't claim to be any more of an "original idea" person than MacFarlane is. The main point I was ACTUALLY more amazed about is that the physical appearance of Alara Kitan is so close to the mental picture I had about my own character. That was the part that I found so funny about this situation. Perhaps by the time CoT finally launches I'll use detailed pics of Alara Kitan as a model for MY character. ;)

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Lin Chiao Feng
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No mention of everyone's

No mention of everyone's favorite Hoffmanite?

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

And burning is the act of setting something on fire, and yet we aren't limited to fire themes on that part... "Tactical" is a perfect for a combo based powerset because it shows that you will in a way, have to think tactically I.E setting up combos. It's not the brute strength of super strength, you have to think more of how you use it, that's it should be called "Tactical"

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The reason I'm mentioning it here is that there's going to be a character on the show named Alara Kitan who's described as "a young inexperienced security officer from a planet where high gravity makes her stronger." The part about "a young woman from another planet where high gravity makes her stronger" is almost an exact ripoff of an idea I had for a future CoT character. The real clincher is that the character I wanted to do in CoT almost looks like Alara Kitan - it's like Seth reached into my mind and stole my idea telepathically!

P.S. I know that this whole thing was entirely coincidental and I'm not seriously going to sue MacFarlane over this. It's just rather creepy to see what I thought was "my" character appearing on a new TV show like this. ;)

Radiac wrote:

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie-27 (wikipedia): "Charlie-27 is a member of a genetically engineered offshoot of humanity whose traits were designed for survival under the heavy gravity conditions of the planet Jupiter. As such, he has superhuman strength, and enhanced durability and stamina."

Charlie-27 was a member of the ORIGINAL Guardians of the Galaxy, in the version of the comic before they rewired it with Star-Lord etc. Not that I'm accusing anyone of stealing ideas from anyone, we all know that there's a ton of cross-talk among the big comic companies (Vision and the Red Tornado, Professor X and the X-Men / Niles Caulder and Doom Patrol, etc).

Frankly there aren't really any new ideas, if you ask me.

Hercules, or even long before him, Gilgamesh and Enkidu.

In short, you're right, there are no new ideas, only variations on a theme.

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

Hercules, or even long before him, Gilgamesh and Enkidu.
In short, you're right, there are no new ideas, only variations on a theme.

Were those guys "aliens from a high gravity planet" as well? I understand that the general category of "dudes with super-human strength" is a very common trope amongst all sorts of mythology and historical fiction but let's try to focus where we can. As I myself pointed out even if you limit your filter to "guys who demonstrate super-human strength because their bodies are naturally attuned to higher amounts of gravity" you could probably still dig up dozens of examples littered amongst various comic books and sci-fi.

Again my main point was more that MacFarlane (or whoever is responsible for the show) had gotten an actress that looks almost exactly like the future character I had envisioned in my own head. The whole "heavy gravity" shtick was almost a minor detail that made the whole situation that much more humorous to me.

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Lin Chiao Feng
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Again my main point was more that MacFarlane (or whoever is responsible for the show) had gotten an actress that looks almost exactly like the future character I had envisioned in my own head.

Yeah, but we got distracted.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Yeah, but we got distracted.

I will admit that I wrote that post with a bit of sarcastic flair to make it sound like I was genuinely angry that some "mere mortal" like Seth MacFarlane would have actually dared to steal one of MY ORIGINAL ideas. Apparently I was a little too convincing lol.

Also the whole idea of worrying about whether the character in question was an "original idea" or not is laughable when you step back and consider we're talking about a character that's on a TV show that is an OPEN RIPOFF of Star Trek and maybe dozens of other related sci-fi shows. ;)

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You might even say the thread

You might even say the thread fell victim to the gravity of the situation. It's a heavy topic.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

You might even say the thread fell victim to the gravity of the situation. It's a heavy topic.

*rimshot*

Even Star Trek toyed around with these characters' basic "look" and/or "foreheads of the week" multiple times:

Before Orville got to this:

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Which one is the Firefly rip?

Which one is the Firefly rip?

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Which one is the Firefly rip?

I guess you got me there - not really sure what you're asking here.

Are you asking which show is a Firefly ripoff?
Or how is Orville going to ripoff Firefly?

I suppose if you cut her a very huge amount of slack you could argue that Orville's Alara Kitan is trying to be a little bit like Firefly's River Tam.

Except for them both sort of having "super human abilities" and maybe being a bit naive about the human world (just guessing about that one as far as Alara goes) it seems like these characters aren't really going to be very much alike at all.

Or maybe since we see that MacFarlane's Capt. Ed Mercer already starts out being a bit of "loose cannon" maybe the show will have him realize that the Planetary Union (P.U. lol) is actually an oppressive, evil organization and he'll turn against it like Malcolm stands against the Alliance in Firefly. That would be an interesting twist to say the least.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

That's not a pistol.
That's not even a tactical pistol.
That's a Swiss Army Chain Saw

(well, maybe minus the chain)

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Nadira wrote:
Nadira wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Nah, "tactical" is when you attach a scope, flashlight, laser sight, folding stock, extended magazine, camera, and bayonet to your pistol.

That's not a pistol.
That's not even a tactical pistol.
That's a Swiss Army Chain Saw
(well, maybe minus the chain)

It's all of the above, though. A friend and I liked to browse through the firearms parts of Something Awful looking for those threads, and the pics were hilarious.

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Will there be "Thrown Items"

Will there be "Thrown Items" props? Like bombs, containers/concoctions, knives, ninja stars, etc?

Or are those considered aesthetics, and there are throwing animations to choose from?

Thanks!

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MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Will there be "Thrown Items" props? Like bombs, containers/concoctions, knives, ninja stars, etc?
Or are those considered aesthetics, and there are throwing animations to choose from?
Thanks!

This is a good question. If you have something like a "throwing knife" as a prop the game would have to handle not only you holding the knife but then the animations of you throwing the knife and the knife itself flying through the air towards a target. Not sure if the "props" system will be complex enough to account for all those various graphics and animation representations.

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What is the deal with the

What is the deal with the mana bar? What if you are not a mage? Or is this only for mages? Batman does not use magic points. Power bar would have been better, it is more vague and general.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

What is the deal with the mana bar? What if you are not a mage? Or is this only for mages? Batman does not use magic points. Power bar would have been better, it is more vague and general.

The word "mana" has become a pretty generic term for "power points" in games like this. While I'd agree it started out being more "magic" oriented it really has become fairly generalized over the years. Not exactly sure why they couldn't have used the word "power" instead, but in the course of things that might annoy me about this game the word mana for this doesn't rank too highly.

Also it's extreme early to be worrying about GUI labels anyway - for all we know they'll change the name long before it even gets to beta. *shrugs*

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

What is the deal with the mana bar? What if you are not a mage? Or is this only for mages? Batman does not use magic points. Power bar would have been better, it is more vague and general.

I'm willing to bet it's just a placeholder. "Mana" is just a generic term used for an "energy pool". They'll most likely call it something else - Energy, Endurance, Stamina, what have you.

Edit: Dang - Ninja'd

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Phararri wrote:
What is the deal with the mana bar? What if you are not a mage? Or is this only for mages? Batman does not use magic points. Power bar would have been better, it is more vague and general.
The word "mana" has become a pretty generic term for "power points" in games like this. While I'd agree it started out being more "magic" oriented it really has become fairly generalized over the years. Not exactly sure why they couldn't have used the word "power" instead, but in the course of things that might annoy me about this game the word mana for this doesn't rank too highly.
Also it's extreme early to be worrying about GUI labels anyway - for all we know they'll change the name long before it even gets to beta. *shrugs*

True, it is early. I hope it is changed.

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Phararri wrote:
Phararri wrote:

What is the deal with the mana bar? What if you are not a mage? Or is this only for mages? Batman does not use magic points. Power bar would have been better, it is more vague and general.

It is indeed a place holder - what you're seeing there is a nice-looking grey box.
Using cobbled assets of some of our stuff (for buildings, some fx, and such), and using a puchased asset for testing different mechanics and systems out really quick.

Even our internal term for that bar is a basic place holder name and will get its own player-facing name and associated mechanic will get appropriate names.


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MeSoSollyWan wrote:
MeSoSollyWan wrote:

Will there be "Thrown Items" props? Like bombs, containers/concoctions, knives, ninja stars, etc?
Or are those considered aesthetics, and there are throwing animations to choose from?
Thanks!

I'm thinking those are more power effects than props. I'd think it easier to simply give a few options for knives to throw (regular knife, Kunai, kikuri) than to give a the full range of customization given to swords or guns.

That being said, it'd be cool to be able to boomerang certain weapons (Captain America ;) ) that avoids the issue with making sure the animation actually lands the hit, whereas if a weapon spun consistently, it might jump from hitting hilt-in to sticking the knife.


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So call it 'Energy' and don't

So call it 'Energy' and don't bother defining what kind? I often just refer to it as a 'Blue Bar', full of 'Blue'.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

So call it 'Energy' and don't bother defining what kind? I often just refer to it as a 'Blue Bar', full of 'Blue'.
Be Well!
Fireheart

That's what it is currently called, but it probably won't remain that way.


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I've been watching (and re

I've been watching (and re-watching, and re-watching) the powers demo video and I have to say that things are looking pretty nice.

With one exception.

It's just my opinion of course, but I really don't like the way the damage numbers are being shown.

They just seem to be too big and obscuring of the action.

Starting out at (what appears to be) mid-body and being very large in size, I just really don't like the way they look.

I'd also be concerned about seeing everything when there's a dozen AoE attacks all going off at once with a team.

Is there going to be any way to tone down the size/scope/placement of the damage numbers (without disabling them completely)?

Something closer to the way CoH looked (with the numbers being smaller and starting out over the head) would be preferable to me at least.

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Soulwind wrote:
Soulwind wrote:

I've been watching (and re-watching, and re-watching) the powers demo video and I have to say that things are looking pretty nice.
With one exception.
It's just my opinion of course, but I really don't like the way the damage numbers are being shown.
They just seem to be too big and obscuring of the action.
Starting out at (what appears to be) mid-body and being very large in size, I just really don't like the way they look.
I'd also be concerned about seeing everything when there's a dozen AoE attacks all going off at once with a team.
Is there going to be any way to tone down the size/scope/placement of the damage numbers (without disabling them completely)?
Something closer to the way CoH looked (with the numbers being smaller and starting out over the head) would be preferable to me at least.

I doubt any of that is how it's planned to be in the game at launch.

There's a lot of placeholder stuff that shows up in these videos and some may be exaggerated to make it easier to see what the powers are doing while they're being worked on.

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IIRC none of the UI under

IIRC none of the UI under development is in those demo videos. All the UI stuff (bars, damage numbers, messages, etc.) is placeholders because nobody likes to try to read combat log spam in real time.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

IIRC none of the UI under development is in those demo videos. All the UI stuff (bars, damage numbers, messages, etc.) is placeholders because nobody likes to try to read combat log spam in real time.

What does IIRC mean? I've seen it a few times here.


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I believe that's If I Recall

I believe that's If I Recall Correctly.

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Fireheart does recall

Fireheart does recall correctly.

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The huge numbers replaced the

The huge numbers replaced the graphics we used in earlier videos, which were even more obscuring.

They will be replaced when the final UI is installed.

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Question: I can accept that I

Question: I can accept that I will not have darkness melee at launch.
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch? I'm willing to buy it at the cash shop.
I could color flames a smoky grey, but it won't be the same.

Please say yes. I really want to be like the cool kids.

PS: One more question please. (you may not be able to answer this yet) When you do make Darkness Melee available, will there be a Life drain (drain hits = self heal) similar to the old CoH...that was so vampiric, it was really wizard.

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And another question. If I

And another question. If I take ranged and pistols...can I fire a machine gun burst from my pistols (sound effects and all)?
also can I do the same thing from just a pointed finger (sound effects and all)?

I can feel my inner altaholic rising up. there are just so many ways to make a character with this game.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Questions:
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch?

Yes

Cyclops wrote:

When you do make Darkness Melee available, will there be a Life drain (drain hits = self heal) similar to the old CoH...that was so vampiric, it was really wizard.

Yes

Cyclops wrote:

And another question. If I take ranged and pistols...can I fire a machine gun burst from my pistols (sound effects and all)?
also can I do the same thing from just a pointed finger (sound effects and all)?

Yes

Technical Director

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Yes

YES! I am so pumped for this game! I love your powers design. You guys are great!
Thank you Doctor. please give my thanks to the devs who worked so hard to make this all work!

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Question: I can accept that I will not have darkness melee at launch.
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch?

I'm assuming you can add a dark damage Powerset Refinement to brawn or burning melee. I plan on doing this for a dark swordsman ;)

Solid yes's from the devs are the best :)


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Cyclops wrote:
Question: I can accept that I will not have darkness melee at launch.
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch?
I'm assuming you can add a dark damage Powerset Refinement to brawn or burning melee. I plan on doing this for a dark swordsman ;)
Solid yes's from the devs are the best :)

Dark isn't a damage type. If anything, it is a description of the color choices applicable to fx.
The "tendrils" and other such things will be an easthetic theme applicable to appropriate sets.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

desviper wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Question: I can accept that I will not have darkness melee at launch.
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch?
I'm assuming you can add a dark damage Powerset Refinement to brawn or burning melee. I plan on doing this for a dark swordsman ;)
Solid yes's from the devs are the best :)
Dark isn't a damage type. If anything, it is a description of the color choices applicable to fx.
The "tendrils" and other such things will be an easthetic theme applicable to appropriate sets.

what sets would that be? I have a character based on this so I would love to know.

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Are you guys really set on

Are you guys really set on the names of the power sets? Burning sounds pretty bland to me. An adjective should not be the name of a power set. Please don't be afraid to use some of the same names that CoH used. It seems like you guys are just looking up synonyms to every word that CoH used and using them instead.

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Psycout wrote:
Psycout wrote:

Are you guys really set on the names of the power sets? Burning sounds pretty bland to me. An adjective should not be the name of a power set. Please don't be afraid to use some of the same names that CoH used. It seems like you guys are just looking up synonyms to every word that CoH used and using them instead.

More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.

How about ablation or ablating?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.

Hmm. How about Decay? Or maybe Scourge? Those are two rough ideas that I can think of right now.

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See, we have no problem with

See, we have no problem with being told "that's a dumb name" and adjusting accordingly.

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And yet, boring old 'Burning'

And yet, boring old 'Burning' still works best, of the options on offer.

Be Well!
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I like scourge

I like scourge

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

And yet, boring old 'Burning' still works best, of the options on offer.
Be Well!
Fireheart

I agree. Burning is descriptive enough that it explains the concept of the power set in one word, which I think is needed for designing these power sets.

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Little Red Ragnarok wrote:
Little Red Ragnarok wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
And yet, boring old 'Burning' still works best, of the options on offer.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I agree. Burning is descriptive enough that it explains the concept of the power set in one word, which I think is needed for designing these power sets.

I just don't see why it is an adjective. It's not like a super speed powerset will be called speeding or a water powerset will be called soaking.

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I agree the names need to be

I agree the names need to be a little more creative than that. Need to find words that are not so simple but not too complicated. Right in that sweet spot.

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(insert pithy comment here)

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Psycout wrote:
Psycout wrote:

Little Red Ragnarok wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
And yet, boring old 'Burning' still works best, of the options on offer.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I agree. Burning is descriptive enough that it explains the concept of the power set in one word, which I think is needed for designing these power sets.
I just don't see why it is an adjective. It's not like a super speed powerset will be called speeding or a water powerset will be called soaking.

The names need to be descriptive of a wide range of visual themes and the mechanical function of the power set.

Hence while "Burning" is an adjective, it does an adequte job of describing a power set that relied on damage over time and covers a wide range of "stuff that burns", ie anything from fire to acid.


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taking some of the CoX power

taking some of the CoX power sets as a basis, here are some ideas.

the DoT theme: burning, withering, continuing damage, residual damage
the knockback theme: kinetic, concussive, force, displacing
the chance to stun theme: stunning
the -acc theme: obscuring, blinding
the -resist, -regen theme: hampering, debilitating, undermining
the -damage theme: weakening
the -rechargespeed, -movement theme: slowing, delaying
the endo drain theme: draining, enervating, vampiric

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Dark Ether wrote:
Dark Ether wrote:

Classic. I say this line from The Simpson's frequently.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Psycout wrote:
Little Red Ragnarok wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
And yet, boring old 'Burning' still works best, of the options on offer.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I agree. Burning is descriptive enough that it explains the concept of the power set in one word, which I think is needed for designing these power sets.
I just don't see why it is an adjective. It's not like a super speed powerset will be called speeding or a water powerset will be called soaking.
The names need to be descriptive of a wide range of visual themes and the mechanical function of the power set.
Hence while "Burning" is an adjective, it does an adequte job of describing a power set that relied on damage over time and covers a wide range of "stuff that burns", ie anything from fire to acid.

So is each power set gonna have one theme as in DoT or -Acc or what have you? And as far as decoupling I'd be able to choose burning as a power set but use a bow and arrow? Or is there gonna be limitations as to what customization is available for each power set? Also if Burning is an offensive set that represents DoT, then what does the Burning defense power set represent?

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The names need to be descriptive of a wide range of visual themes and the mechanical function of the power set.

Hence while "Burning" is an adjective, it does an adequte job of describing a power set that relied on damage over time and covers a wide range of "stuff that burns", ie anything from fire to acid.

What are the damage types in CoT? Will CoT even have damage types? I can't seem to find the answer to that. The reason why I am asking is because you are putting a lot of visual themes under one label. Burning means combustion, corrosion, abrasion, frostbite and so on but how many themes do other labels have?

What I mean is, in CoH the effects of the attack was directly tied to the damage type. DoT for fire, slow for cold, -acc for dark, ect. It seems like you are not linking effects to a damage type but instead to a theme. Without understanding how (or if) a damage type is related to a visual theme and its effects I find it difficult to come up with names for sets.

Could you either explain if/how damage relates to visual themes or link me to where it has been explained before to help me understand this aspect of aesthetic decoupling better.

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Psycout wrote:
Psycout wrote:

So is each power set gonna have one theme as in DoT or -Acc or what have you? And as far as decoupling I'd be able to choose burning as a power set but use a bow and arrow? Or is there gonna be limitations as to what customization is available for each power set? Also if Burning is an offensive set that represents DoT, then what does the Burning defense power set represent?

I can answer the bolded question. Tannim told me in the Build a hero thread that yes you can add amazing props to burning. Your fire arrows will work. I asked if martial arts will work with burning and he said: "Yes"

A few posts above Dr Tyche told me that I could add Darkness animations as a prop to Burning or even super strength.

The key is you can have the exact same powers and totally unique heroes.

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While I understand why some

While I understand why some people want words with more "sizzle" to name the sets, I think MWM is making the right decisions as far as naming when you take Aesthetic Decoupling into account.

For just one example, "Burning" gives the clear sense of residual and/or continual damage, as in fire and heat burns, "acid burns", "cold burns", "electrical burns", "friction burns", "radiation burns", "chemical burns", etc. etc.

Scourge, on the other hand, while a great word, doesn't give me that specific feel at all. Instead it give a distinctly villainous feel. And that's not just my personal bias:

scourge
skərj/
noun
1.
historical
a whip used as an instrument of punishment.
synonyms: whip, horsewhip, lash, strap, birch, switch, bullwhip, rawhide; historicalcat-o'-nine-tails
"he was beaten with a scourge"
2.
a person or thing that causes great trouble or suffering.
"the scourge of mass unemployment"
synonyms: affliction, bane, curse, plague, menace, evil, misfortune, burden, cross to bear; More
verb
1.
historical
whip (someone) as a punishment.
synonyms: flog, whip, beat, horsewhip, lash, flagellate, strap, birch, cane, thrash, belt, leather; More
2.
cause great suffering to.
"political methods used to scourge and oppress workers"
synonyms: afflict, plague, torment, torture, curse, oppress, burden, bedevil, beset
"a disease that scourged North America"

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Burning +1.

Burning +1.

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Ouchie?

Ouchie?

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I think burning is fine, the

I think burning is fine, the rest are honestly too power word-y ;)


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

desviper wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Question: I can accept that I will not have darkness melee at launch.
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch?
I'm assuming you can add a dark damage Powerset Refinement to brawn or burning melee. I plan on doing this for a dark swordsman ;)
Solid yes's from the devs are the best :)
Dark isn't a damage type. If anything, it is a description of the color choices applicable to fx.
The "tendrils" and other such things will be an easthetic theme applicable to appropriate sets.

:(

So, will there be a Damage with debuff ranged theme?


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desviper wrote:
desviper wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
desviper wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Question: I can accept that I will not have darkness melee at launch.
If I take burning melee or super strength...can I add Darkness animations as a prop at launch?
I'm assuming you can add a dark damage Powerset Refinement to brawn or burning melee. I plan on doing this for a dark swordsman ;)
Solid yes's from the devs are the best :)
Dark isn't a damage type. If anything, it is a description of the color choices applicable to fx.
The "tendrils" and other such things will be an easthetic theme applicable to appropriate sets.
:(
So, will there be a Damage with debuff ranged theme?

Of different varieties.


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Seriously, this is starting

Seriously, this is starting to bug me.

I can't find anything that definitively states there will be separate damage 'types'. From the sounds of things the game will just have 'damage' and won't include any mechanical adjective to differentiate one type of damage from another. What I mean is it seems like we won't have 'fire damage', 'cold damage' and the like. We won't even have 'burn damage' because burn, by all appearances, is just an effect (DoT). This means that we wouldn't have resistance or defensive types either. It would also mean that foes would not do a specific damage type or resist a specific damage type and so any set would (theoretically) be equally applicable in combating them. This would be a pretty big simplification to combat in the game and while I am not against it I do want to know if it is true.

Please, devs or anyone else, did I miss where this was explained in the past? Can someone link me to something that answers this question?

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Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
The names need to be descriptive of a wide range of visual themes and the mechanical function of the power set.
Hence while "Burning" is an adjective, it does an adequte job of describing a power set that relied on damage over time and covers a wide range of "stuff that burns", ie anything from fire to acid.
What are the damage types in CoT? Will CoT even have damage types? I can't seem to find the answer to that. The reason why I am asking is because you are putting a lot of visual themes under one label. Burning means combustion, corrosion, abrasion, frostbite and so on but how many themes do other labels have?
What I mean is, in CoH the effects of the attack was directly tied to the damage type. DoT for fire, slow for cold, -acc for dark, ect. It seems like you are not linking effects to a damage type but instead to a theme. Without understanding how (or if) a damage type is related to a visual theme and its effects I find it difficult to come up with names for sets.
Could you either explain if/how damage relates to visual themes or link me to where it has been explained before to help me understand this aspect of aesthetic decoupling better.

There are damage types.
We have not released them yet.
Damage types are applied as to what categories of themes they cover is the best way I can explain it without divulging too much direct info.

It will make more sense once we get deeper into game mechanics the closer we get to beta.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

There are damage types.
We have not released them yet.
Damage types are applied as to what categories of themes they cover is the best way I can explain it without divulging too much direct info.

It will make more sense once we get deeper into game mechanics the closer we get to beta.

Fair enough. It's incredibly frustrating because I don't know the salient details and as a result, I don't understand the reason for being tight lipped on this subject. Ah these chicken/egg dilemmas make things so difficult for us information hounds.

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Because aesthetic decoupling

Because aesthetic decoupling separates the power from the art, perhaps just general powerset names describing their design parameters is sufficient? Something like:

Ranged DoT:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage over time. Suitable for fire, poison, and decay-type characters.

Ranged Damage:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage on impact. Suitable for non-projectile attack-based characters such as ice, psychic, and energy.

Ranged Control:
A series of ranged attack power that emphasize holding, slowing, or limiting rather than damage. Suitable for psychic, ice, earth, weather or time manipulation type characters.

Melee Damage:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for super strong or grappling type characters.

Melee Control:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, and other skilled hand-to-hand type characters.

So forth and so, ad infinitum.

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Greyhawk wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:

Because aesthetic decoupling separates the power from the art, perhaps just general powerset names describing their design parameters is sufficient? Something like:
Ranged DoT:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage over time. Suitable for fire, poison, and decay-type characters.
Ranged Damage:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage on impact. Suitable for non-projectile attack-based characters such as ice, psychic, and energy.
Ranged Control:
A series of ranged attack power that emphasize holding, slowing, or limiting rather than damage. Suitable for psychic, ice, earth, weather or time manipulation type characters.
Melee Damage:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for super strong or grappling type characters.
Melee Control:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, and other skilled hand-to-hand type characters.
So forth and so, ad infinitum.

The problem with that comes in when you have multiple sets that deliver their effect in the same way but have a mechanical difference (Example from CoH: Electric Blast vs Radiation Blast vs Sonic Blast etc.).

They would all be described as "Ranged Damage" or even "Ranged Damage and Debuff" but neither of those tags conveys that they function any differently or are unique to each other.
Defining the set any farther, such as:
"Ranged Damage with Endurance Drain"
"Ranged Damage and Defense Debuff"
"Ranged Damage and Resist Debuff"
...is just very, very clunky and inelegant.

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OathboundOne wrote:
OathboundOne wrote:

Greyhawk wrote:
Because aesthetic decoupling separates the power from the art, perhaps just general powerset names describing their design parameters is sufficient? Something like:
Ranged DoT:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage over time. Suitable for fire, poison, and decay-type characters.
Ranged Damage:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage on impact. Suitable for non-projectile attack-based characters such as ice, psychic, and energy.
Ranged Control:
A series of ranged attack power that emphasize holding, slowing, or limiting rather than damage. Suitable for psychic, ice, earth, weather or time manipulation type characters.
Melee Damage:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for super strong or grappling type characters.
Melee Control:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, and other skilled hand-to-hand type characters.
So forth and so, ad infinitum.
The problem with that comes in when you have multiple sets that deliver their effect in the same way but have a mechanical difference (Example from CoH: Electric Blast vs Radiation Blast vs Sonic Blast etc.).
They would all be described as "Ranged Damage" or even "Ranged Damage and Debuff" but neither of those tags conveys that they function any differently or are unique to each other.
Defining the set any farther, such as:
"Ranged Damage with Endurance Drain"
"Ranged Damage and Defense Debuff"
"Ranged Damage and Resist Debuff"
...is just very, very clunky and inelegant.

Just wanted to add that since we explicitly choose the ranged damage classification (for primary sets) or specialization (for secondary sets) so to name every ranged damage set as "Ranged Damage <+something>" seems a bit redundant. I'm not going to expect a melee damage or defense or whatever else set to pop up there.

@Greyhawk
"Ranged Control"
What you say there describe all sets within the control classification/specialization since I seriously doubt that any ranged damage set will emphasize secondary effects more than damage. If they do then the control effects would, imo, no longer be the secondary effect but rather become the primary one, that is they become control sets rather than damage sets.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Hence while "Burning" is an adjective, it does an adequte job of describing a power set that relied on damage over time and covers a wide range of "stuff that burns", ie anything from fire to acid.

But... venom or even sting from bees or even scratshes ... are they also consider like that ? I know this is a "type of damages" and you could maybe not answer this question. But if they are, so : repetitive, erosion or abrasion could be more adaptative than burning ?

To my opinion : If we have difficulties to qualify the powers, maybe there is a problem on the way they are titled. Maybe this way to call them is not as efficient as thougth ? Maybe, naming them in a really différent way could be a better idea ?

Do you want the name of the "power family" to be demonstrative or just to be a "family" ?


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OathboundOne
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

OathboundOne wrote:
Greyhawk wrote:
Because aesthetic decoupling separates the power from the art, perhaps just general powerset names describing their design parameters is sufficient? Something like:
Ranged DoT:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage over time. Suitable for fire, poison, and decay-type characters.
Ranged Damage:
A series of ranged attack powers that emphasize damage on impact. Suitable for non-projectile attack-based characters such as ice, psychic, and energy.
Ranged Control:
A series of ranged attack power that emphasize holding, slowing, or limiting rather than damage. Suitable for psychic, ice, earth, weather or time manipulation type characters.
Melee Damage:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for super strong or grappling type characters.
Melee Control:
A series of immediate and extreme short-range attacks suitable for martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, and other skilled hand-to-hand type characters.
So forth and so, ad infinitum.
The problem with that comes in when you have multiple sets that deliver their effect in the same way but have a mechanical difference (Example from CoH: Electric Blast vs Radiation Blast vs Sonic Blast etc.).
They would all be described as "Ranged Damage" or even "Ranged Damage and Debuff" but neither of those tags conveys that they function any differently or are unique to each other.
Defining the set any farther, such as:
"Ranged Damage with Endurance Drain"
"Ranged Damage and Defense Debuff"
"Ranged Damage and Resist Debuff"
...is just very, very clunky and inelegant.
Just wanted to add that since we explicitly choose the ranged damage classification (for primary sets) or specialization (for secondary sets) so to name every ranged damage set as "Ranged Damage <+something>" seems a bit redundant. I'm not going to expect a melee damage or defense or whatever else set to pop up there.
@Greyhawk
"Ranged Control"
What you say there describe all sets within the control classification/specialization since I seriously doubt that any ranged damage set will emphasize secondary effects more than damage. If they do then the control effects would, imo, no longer be the secondary effect but rather become the primary one, that is they become control sets rather than damage sets.

When I said "Ranged Damage" in that post I wasn't referring to the Class/Primary/Archetype powerset type (i.e. a Guardian is Support/Ranged Damage), I meant mechanical delivery in the same way that Greyhawk* (who I directly quoted) used the term. This is a set that delivers damage at range in a direct, immediate manner as distinct from a ranged set that delivers damage over time. The "Ranged Damage" primary/secondary powerset type will have both, thus the need to distinguish between the two.

The "Ranged Damage" powerset group could have the following five sets:
Ranged Direct Damage
Ranged Damage over Time
Ranged Direct Damage plus XXX Mechanic
Ranged Damage over time plus YYY Mechanic
and Ranged Direct Damage plus ZZZ Mechanic

Labeling the delivery method (Direct vs Over Time) would be important to convey the feel of the set, but then you'd also need to differentiate between sets that share the same delivery method, but feature different mechanics. That's where it gets simply too wordy IMO.

Even cutting off the "Ranged" qualifier (which would be uneccessary given that theys all fall under the "Ranged" umbrella) still leaves us with:
Direct Damage
Damage over Time
Direct Damage plus XXX Mechanic
Damage over time plus YYY Mechanic
Direct Damage plus ZZZ Mechanic
Which while less cumbersome still doesn't read very well to me.

*Blah, mixed your guys' names together to get Blackhawk, woops.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.
...
See, we have no problem with being told "that's a dumb name" and adjusting accordingly.

I still stand by my comments & suggestions for changing the Archetype and Specialization naming schemes.

Tannim222 wrote:

There are damage types.
We have not released them yet.
Damage types are applied as to what categories of themes they cover is the best way I can explain it without divulging too much direct info.
It will make more sense once we get deeper into game mechanics the closer we get to beta.

There is little reason for us to 'throw paint on the wall' to see what suggestions stick when we don't understand the geometry or number of walls.

The Devs have already said they are hiding the details of the powers behind a future info dump. So we can keep poking and prodding them for bits of information that will just make us ask more questions. Or we can just wait patiently for them to actually release the information and we can go nuts on the naming schemes for the powersets.

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Planet10 wrote:
Planet10 wrote:

The Devs have already said they are hiding the details of the powers behind a future info dump. So we can keep poking and prodding them for bits of information that will just make us ask more questions. Or we can just wait patiently for them to actually release the information and we can go nuts on the naming schemes for the powersets.

I'm actually not even bothering to hyper analyze and/or memorize much in the way of "names" for things yet until probably when the betas start to happen. These things change quite a bit before launch and even for names I don't quite like I can usually get used to them in the long run anyway.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I'm actually not even bothering to hyper analyze and/or memorize much in the way of "names" for things yet until probably when the betas start to happen. These things change quite a bit before launch and even for names I don't quite like I can usually get used to them in the long run anyway.

QFT, but it won't keep people from using up the nervous energy waiting for the game by going round and round about it anyway :P.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Psycout wrote:
Are you guys really set on the names of the power sets? Burning sounds pretty bland to me. An adjective should not be the name of a power set. Please don't be afraid to use some of the same names that CoH used. It seems like you guys are just looking up synonyms to every word that CoH used and using them instead.
More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.

Persistent entropy.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Psycout wrote:
Are you guys really set on the names of the power sets? Burning sounds pretty bland to me. An adjective should not be the name of a power set. Please don't be afraid to use some of the same names that CoH used. It seems like you guys are just looking up synonyms to every word that CoH used and using them instead.
More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.
Persistent entropy.

Enduring Decay

KnightMask
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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
Psycout wrote:
Are you guys really set on the names of the power sets? Burning sounds pretty bland to me. An adjective should not be the name of a power set. Please don't be afraid to use some of the same names that CoH used. It seems like you guys are just looking up synonyms to every word that CoH used and using them instead.
More than open. Please, suggest another name for a DoT set which can reflect everything from being on fire to spraying acid.
Persistent entropy.

Enduring Decay

Lin Chiao Feng
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Oh yeah, forgot this:

What's wrong with Burning, anyway?

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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radiation burns, electrical

radiation burns, electrical burns, heat burns, really cold feels like it burns, lasers burn through stuff, spicy foods burn my stomach and mouth, a harsh wind burns, an insect bite can burn, people screaming at one another burns me up, etc, etc.

(insert pithy comment here)

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I can see the issue with the

I can see the issue with the term Burning, as descriptive as it is its a little meh. But to me, im more interested in the quality of the effects of the powers.

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"Burning" seems to cover the

"Burning" seems to cover the most conditions I can envision causing DoT, with the possible exception of "Bleeds" or poisons. Seems to be the best option so far - or at least the most encompassing.

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Gonna re-ask this one 'cause

Gonna re-ask this one 'cause I am still very interested:

Do animations exist for throwing items? Containers, knives, bombs, etc? Is this a prop? Or an aesthetic with throwing animation options?

Thanks!

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