I've looked around, but have not found answers to these questions.
First, when talking about "raids" in CoT, what does that term mean here? Such things vary quite a bit from game to game, and even in the same game over time.
Are we talking like Hami raids?
> Big epic fight, anyone can jump in and help, and everyone gets a Hami-o.
Are we talking like the incarnate trials?
> Large classes of character abilities rendered completely useless (e.g. crowd control, taunting, etc.), instant death all over the place, completion always in doubt, etc.
Or are we talking like in certain fantasy games that shall remain nameless?
> Requires weeks of regular practice with the same group to get past each step, any slight deviation from an hours-long choreography results in a total wipe, only one reward total per instance, and only one instance ever per server, etc.
Second, do you intend to time-gate any rewards by day? The context here is that I work 12-hour shifts, so I have more nights off than most people, but can't play games at all on work nights. Thus, in games with "daily" missions, I tend to progress at about half the speed that everyone else does, even though in theory I can spend a lot of time in-game when I am on. One thing that I liked about CoH was that there were enough avenues for advancement so that falling behind on "dailies" did not cripple me too badly.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I believe most people here use 'raid' and 'task force' interchangeably. For the most part, when you see raid think of something along those lines: a team oriented event / mission / story arc that requires some attention to what's going on.
Since CoT will not be using anything like the holy trinity approach, it would be next to impossible for them to tune encounters so tightly that they would look like a WoW raid. Although the 'get all the steps to the dance correct or you'll be dead (or at the very least in a world of pain)' approach is also rather irritating.
I do not believe that your last question has been asked. Given MWM's focus on player choice, I presume that you can run TFs or whatever as many times in a row as you like. If there are any dailies I doubt they'll have any impact on progression.
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By "advancement," I was thinking more along the lines of merits accumulated for end-game gear, rather than XP per se, which generally flows freely in most games.
In any case, here's hoping that, as Fez suggests, CoT will follow the CoH TF model. :)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Incidentally, MWM is not aiming to have the traditional end game, so to that extent progression is going to be a non-issue. To quote warcabbit (or was it Doctor Tyche?), alting will be the end game.
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Of course - that's not to say they won't have big end-game raids/TFs/Trials. It's just that the big "End Game loot grinding" you find in other games won't be much of a thing in this one - you will be (hopefully) encouraged to try out other character combinations.
Personally - I really didn't mind the Incarnate stuff in CoH - at least when they finally got a decent variety of Trials going. MOAR POWERZ! Plus I really wanted to see where they were going to go with the remaining 5 slots and accompanying story - ah well.
Your memory is correct, Darth; it was Warcabbit. Here's the link where he says endgame will include alting, raids, and an as-yet-undefined third option: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/630570
As for repeating content for rewards, I can't find it but at least one redname has suggested some limits on how often you can get full rewards for repeating content. Even CoX had that in places. The good news is that this kind of content doesn't seem to be intended for use as it is in other MMOs where dailies are almost the only way to improve your character's stats once you hit max lvl, so it sounds like it may be more an encouragement to try other things than a limit on a sole path to improvement.
Spurn all ye kindle.
As i recall, when i fist got CoH, Alt'ing, or Raids, or Badges.. were not why i keep trying to get to level 50. All i wanted at the time was my very own Peace Bringer. ;)
Like Izzy my first 50 was purely to unlock VEATS (Crab Spider - weeeeee).
Alting is a way of life and Im so happy that CoT will be embracing this philosophy.
I don't mind the idea of reducing certain rewards for repeating the same content ON THE SAME CHARACTER like CoH did. Run the ITF more than once on the same character in a X hr period and get less rewards each time (something like -10>15% per run?).
Swap characters or even builds(?) and the time limit doesn't apply unless you go back to the first character/build within that timeframe.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Swapping builds should have no effect on reducing/avoiding downtime in my mind, it is still the same character. Swapping builds could also result in potentially NO power changes, just a slotting difference (ie team/solo orientated), so if I could get *FULL* rewards for running it again with a build swap? You bet I would.
Keep it locked to the character level, and not the build level, because otherwise you might as well just scrap the whole "Reduced Rewards" idea.
Hi Gangrel - you raise a very good point so builds should have NO impact of this.
Running the content more than x/y hours for THAT CHARACTER reduces the rewards.
Although SHOULD we reduce rewards? Does it matter if my team and I are really enjoying the ITF and want to do it again and again and again? Does it hurt anybody by doing this? We cant really answer this until we know what is meant by "Rewards". For example I posted in a different thread that Raids/TF/Dungeons/etc should give EVERYONE on the team a guaranteed drop. Assuming the same kind of drops that CoH had to make explaining this easier lets say for the ITF you were guaranteed a Yellow+ or even an Orange+ grade drop. You can still get a crappy Yellow or Orange worth spit but you GET SOMETHING and its not a 'common' item. You could get an Orange or Purple drop as well but this is still based on Reward Tables/Drop chances/etc.
If we had this type of Reward then running an Orange+ Drop TF that can be completed in under 30 mins (assuming it can be done that fast) I can see wanting to reduce the Reward Drop to Yellow+ after the 1st run within X hrs.
If we just have you get nothing special apart from Kill Drops (like COH) then is there any reason to reduce rewards?
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
I have no problem with *mob drops* staying the same, infact I think it would be stupid to put a limit on them (unless of course there is a bugged mob, so maybe some overlaying "no more than X purples per hour as mob drops" as a background system check.
I am in two minds in this, and it does all depend as to how the reward system actually works. If it was something like the Speed Katie style of TF, where one of Taskforce is *fast* and (relatively) *easy* to complete to get rewards as such a scale above the expected earning rate, then I can see a reason as to having diminishing returns... *especially* if there is the option of getting a *fixed* reward.
But I have also been running some Adventures and Dungeons in Wildstar... and as the rewards are of the "need/greed style" for Boss Kills, there are also extra rewards that you can pick up. And this (for normal game play) has no upper limit to how much you can earn. As in, I have yet to leave the run with NOTHING having dropped, even if it was just a housing decor piece.
But from what I can tell, with the raids being on a weekly lock out (as in you can only get 1 reward per boss, per week), I can see as to why they have done that as well... to slow down acquisition of gear (And from what I can tell, even in beta, no one had actually *fully* completed one of the raids).
A lot of how this is all balanced though is all dependant onto what they offer as rewards though in CoT; so at a *HIGH* level I would say that if you are giving the "best" stuff away (in terms of rarity) for completing X, I would expect *some form* of limiting factor for running that content (even if it is down to one a day for the best, and declining down the more you run it).
Running a particular TF/Trial should have the same XP each time it is ran, regardless of how often you run it in my opinion. I also feel that drop rate during the run should stay very close to the same since the odds are decent that not everyone on the first run will be on the subsequent runs. If there is a guaranteed Uncommon or Rare drop at completion I think that should hold to the timer. On that note I can see setting the timer to 18-20 hours so that a person on a regular schedule can run it everyday if they so choose.
I don't know.
Alting wasn't at all my primary endgame. I tended to get two or three favorite concepts to 50 and then develop and play the crap out of them. Just enjoy fully realizing the hero I made up, basically. Though I did spend a significant amount of time playing with alts, I wasn't my main endgame by far.
I guess for me endgame was actually playing the game because it was fun. I spent TONS of time soloing 4/8 radios because it was just fun, kicking around the Shadow Shard, Running Taskforces, and, most especially, just constantly making my heroes more powerful and closer to exactly what I imagined them to be by using IO's and Incarnate powers.
I would be a bit disappointed (but still all-in) if Alting was the ONLY, or even primary, form of endgame. Ironically, I HATE the grind-endgame that Champions and DCUO have, and I've never played any game other than CoH where just enjoying playing the game itself was motivation enough to keep playing at endgame.
I honestly don't really understand what it was about CoH that made it so much more fun for me than other games. I've been trying to qualify and quantify it, but I don't seem to be able to.
But I sure miss it.
Edit: Now that I think about it, it is true that even if to me Alting isn't THE endgame, it does multiply the endgame. Even just Alting 3 toons triples the effective "content". But... I would often spend an entire year or more playing and developing one toon that was already level 50 without ever once logging onto another alt.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
As long as its possible at level 50, to go back and run through lower level content to get things you didnt know about before (badges, etc) then that could be a part of the end game content.
Ohhh.. what if certain badges can only be gotten when youre at Cap level? (or past a certain level)
So, certain past missions can now grant Badges, Swag, etc... now become Unlocked at a certain Level?
An Accolade for not dying once while running through an entire Arc! perma +5HP
Same Content, but different Rewards. ;D
And to make it a challenge... Maybe have different Arcs for different Archetypes!?!? But, might be pushing it. ;)
Plus, to make it a bit more interesting... if you do lower level content.. only powers that are gotten at a higher level an affect the environment... like Destructible walls, or something! Anything that gets lower level players to say "thats neat".
Could be just having enough juice to really Illuminate some dim Lights as you walk by them. whatever sets you apart from a lower level player. This way, if you like when others comment how Neat that is, you might see more players reRun the same stuff again and again. ;D
Once the Neat factor wears off, after a period of months, add a few others! Or just Alter the existing Neat's! ;)
Say, Instead of the lights getting very bright, have them EXPLODE as you walk by, if Build Up is Activated, or still present! ;)
I vote for NEATS! :D
I'm too busy to post a new thread in the Suggestions and Ideas section for NEATS! :(
Maybe someone else can start it? ;D
Exploding neats? Sounds like Diablo II.
Not that that's a bad thing.
Hmm, how about lowbie NPC heroes coming to you for training (or autographs) when you're idle in a low level safe area like next to the big bird or something?
As Empyrean noted above, I spent the vast majority of my time, not grinding to 50, but Perfecting my 50's. The Neat factor that Izzy mentioned is a worthy one. Dropping random temporary or permanent "Neat's" for TF/Raid completion after running it through in (x) hours/days (whatever) can be very satisfying without breaking things. The player can get a "Wow that is Neat" feeling after getting a random costume thingy or badge, etc and still have reason to run it again for the shot of some other Neat...
They also serve, who only stand and wait.
And this is why I enjoy running the adventures/dungeons in Wildstar. I can get housing items from them ;) And of course, the better you do at them, the better stuff you can get (although there is a chance of still getting the stuff without the medal, that is far lower than doing well in event).
Course, some people would view this as a form of "gear grind" as well...