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Your Perfect MMORPG?

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Izzy
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Your Perfect MMORPG?

Just came across this Reviewers Video talking about what the Perfect MMORPG would be, and he takes pieces from the existing MMO's and Frankensteins the ones he Loves from each.

listen to the Review here:
https://youtu.be/j7vy7ZmkoH8

A few might not fit CoT, but... what are some of the points he makes that you agree with?!?

love to hear your opinions. ;)

Interdictor
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* Big open world with little

* Big open world with little to no loading screens - sure I can get down with that. Instanced missions are cool too.

* Tab vs action combat - I'd prefer to stick with tab targeting for this game - though I don't mind having to "get out of the way" for certain telegraphed attacks. Twitch combat and skill shots are just fine in other games, but I think tab and stab would help preserve the feel of CoH for this one.

* "Loose" holy trinity/broad classes - CoH had this already, and it looks like CoT will continue this - even more so. So we're good there.

* Backstory/Lore and "familiarity" - superheroes are kind of a big thing nowadays (if nothing else but for the movies and tv shows being pumped out) - pretty confident people can get behind the idea of supers, even if they never picked up an actual comic in their lives.

* Questing and leveling experience - the devs have noted that there will be certain choices, and that these will affect your alignment or affiliations, so there is that. "Dungeons" - we will likely have instanced content. This part is very dense and he rattles off a lot of stuff he's like to see so I'm not going to note each item on his list, but I can't say I immediately disagree with anything he says here.

* PvE Endgame - there should be something in place eventually (I for one liked the incarnate content of CoH and had some fun with it), but I know much of my "endgame" will be leveling alts and trying out new power combos.

* Giant Monsters/big open world events - yes please - liked them in CoH even if they choked my PC sometimes lol. Hammi, Mothership and Ritki Invasion analogues would be welcome in CoT.

* Guilds - I imagine we will have supergroups in this game as well.

* Raids - dude seems to really like the hardcore style of raid - where you and your guild HAVE to get just the right sequence of events/attacks down to defeat the boss. I'm not totally against this (it took a while for people to figure out Hammi after all) but I don't think it needs to be the rule. I think this game should be relatively pug-friendly, but a few more challenging raids for guilds to work on wouldn't hurt either.

* PvP/Engame Pvp: Not much of a PvPer myself - so I have little to comment on here - other than I don't think there will be huge battlegrounds in CoT where armies clash over territory and objectives as in Guild Wars and Elder Scrolls. PvP seems like it will be much smaller-scale in CoT, but I'd be open to at least try whatever the devs can come up with.

* Sound/soundtrack - the stuff I've heard from Hellwreckage seems pretty epic so far. Hopefully the rest of the music is both of similar quality and properly fits the mood of the area/actions on the screen. Voice acting I can do without actually - more trouble than it's worth.

* Player housing - well they plan to give us the keys to the basebuilder. Hopefully, with them we will be ably to build everything from Peter Parker's apartment to the JLU Watchtower.

* UI / HUD - I prefer minimalist as well - like he says it helps to focus on the action on screen. Customizability is also important. CoH was pretty good in this regard - at least better than many other game UI's I've seen. One element of this is keeping the map hidden (unless it's important to the gameplay to have it constantly visible). I often find that in games with a constant mini-map in the corner, not only does it often take up a significant amount of screen real estate (in order to be as detailed/useful as possible), but I also tent to pay more attention to it than to the actual game world on the screen. CoH did well without a constant UI map, so I'd like to see CoT continue the same tradition and hide it behind a pull down or tab on the nav bar.

* Graphics - CoT isn't going for the ultra-realistic gfx style, so we should be relatively safe in this regard.

* Extras:
Character creation/customization - if the CoT devs are looking to out-do CoH, then we should be good.

Solo dungeons - I can get behind these, but these might just be another word for "Instanced missions" or "story arcs" - which I'm sure we will have.

Wardrobe - Like CoH I would imagine we will have the ability to switch between one or more saved costumes/outfits.

Companions - hmm - I think I would like to promote teaming and sidekicking more in CoT, so I'm not convinced it would be beneficial to have hireable npc pets or companions. Pets gained from power selections (or even craftable powers) should be just fine though.

Emotes - sure - load me up (just make the interface to select them easy to use lol)

Ability to get married - meh - don't wast dev time on anything special - maybe eventually some costume options, emotes and let the RPers work something out for themselves. Otherwise you will have to code in divorce lawyers in case the PCs split ha ha ha.

Business Model - I think the devs have a "buy to play" model planned, with an optional sub + cash store after? I can get behind this. I'm not convinced that the big boxed expansion model is really beneficial to the community - I've seen populations split by content walls in other games, and I am dubious on the benefits. I'd have to think about the pros vs cons.

Store - we are going to have a store - most likely LOTS of cosmetic stuff (power themes, animations, costumes, base parts, etc etc etc.) Probably also some account-level stuff in there as well (renames and the like). Hopefully no pay-to-win stuff.

Empyrean
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If I weren't too lazy to

If I weren't too lazy to write it out, I would have written almost exactly what Interdictor wrote anyway.

So, big ol'e +1.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Izzy
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Would you Love or Hate:- Auto

Would you Love or Hate:

- Auto Tabbed Targeting for (Melee) Powers in Certain Power-sets:
Ex: Closest Foe is auto targeted for Single Target attacks.
And for a Cone based power, auto targets the foe that's in the Middle of your View.
ex:
So, you Hold Tab while Turning and Tilting your camera Up/Down/Left/Right (technically its same motion that would tilt the camera, but when Tab is held, camera Tilt is locked and the targeting sphere moves farther away or closer to you as you do the tilt motion), and it can auto target the Boss that's behind the Minions, then Release the Tab key and the Boss stays Target. Might be nice for a Gamepad with RB or LB or those other shoulder buttons. ;D
Not sure if a very translucent floating/floor sphere might help while doing this type of targeting. Not sure if and when VR might come into play, but this might help then also. :{

Perhaps even allow the Player to switch back and forth between the Manual Tab Targeting mode and the Auto Tab Targeting mode. A Hybrid Targeting system. ;)

blacke4dawn
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Can't say it that much better

Can't say it that much better than Interdictor, so a +1 as well, but I can expand on a few things.

PvE endgame - The trick here is to have another form of progression system (incarnate was a late answer) and making it not feel like a grind. From all MMO's I have played CoH was the best in this regard, partially since they made it so that effectively all group content was still fully viable at end-game without the need to make "heroic" versions of them.

Solo dungeons - I think MWM have said that all content will be soloable but that some things will have much better rewards, relatively speaking, when done in a group. Also take the auto-scaling to group size into account for this.

Companions - For CoT it's enough if we get tertiary summoning sets.

Greyhawk
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My perfect game?(CoH Freedom

My perfect game?

(CoH Freedom + better base building tools) - (loading screens between open zones)

Once CoX added Mission Architect it became everything I ever wanted in an MMORPG. I would have preferred sticking with the subscription model and not offering any F2P content at all, but I understand very well that in today's world that is no longer possible.

One thing I really enjoyed was the introduction of world areas (like Croatoa and Crimea) dedicated to fantasy themes in addition to the standard modern superhero fare that made the game famous. I really enjoyed how near the end they had begun expanding genre wise into horror, historical fantasy, and even steampunk. I was looking forward to a lunar zone with some strong classic SF flavor, but the game died while it was still being developed.

I do not like "action combat" in an MMORPG. TAB to target then activate a power is fine. I'm old and slow with stiff joints.

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Gorgon
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My thoughts on the OP's

My thoughts on the OP's observations:

* Tab vs. Action combat
I am dismayed the last few MMORPG releases moving towards twitch combat, especially micro holds (like 1.4 seconds). Every danged second is some change you must respond to. It sickens me.
This is a lazy designer's track to "excitement".
There was no class that felt more action as well as powerful as a scrapper, a melee with high single-target damage a light saber guy in SW:TOR can only dream of.
I would describe it as tab-and-queue, queueing powers up. Insert binding combat-usable /follow (most games, incredulously, disable it in combat!) and combat jumping, and poof! Scrapperlock!
(Btw my biggest beef with tanks is less their existence than that they usually prompt wimpy "real" melee off classes, often as a second thought yet, like thief and monk, which remain paltry damage dealers compared to the world class scrapper, which showed such a melee wasn't broken in any way, shape, or form, as design.)

* PvE endgame content
This is a big problem in every game. In CoH, for me it involved slowly getting more powerful and doing missions to solo AVs on harder and harder difficulties.
However, CoH was unique in that it was fun to run lower level missions with noobs and guildies in pugs, taking some pressure off.

* Player Housing
So many games give you sterile housing, a house, or guild hall or ship, with placment points for a handful of decorations or working kiosks. They felt empty.
BY THE WAY, I don't know about implementation, but here is an awesome design: let the house/building/apartment have real windows to look out onto real streets or squares with other players running around.
One of the big immersion busting flaws of other games is the house is its own micro zone. Even if it looks out on the city with traffic, it is just your stupid little copy.
I want housing that is really there. With balconies. You can jump off. And fly into (though the door may be locked to non-guildies.)
Some of these skyscrapers could handle thousands of these. DO IT. DO IT. And if it is a guild ship, let it be a real ship that can dock in a similar really-there way.

* Customizable HUD
God yes. Include bindable commands too, especially emotes and /follow.

* Companions
As opposed to pets? SW: TOR has companions, and they can literally solo the game except for the occasional end boss.
It took lots of prep and several years of planning before my MM could run like a juggernaut. In SW above, your companion's strength and stats are now fixed (equipment doesn't affect it any more) and their light saber is hundreds of dps more powerful than your tricked out one. Sure, they're weaker than a player...due to NPC-like slowness of attacks, but it feels wrong.
Rather have a proper MM or scrapper or controller or buffer or blaster.
If you've started with overpowered SW-like (or EverQuest-like) companions to make up for grouping difficulties (as in finding) you are even more full of fail.

* Business model
I had no problems with what CoH morphed into -- I just wished they had kept their "booster packs" concept. They were all vanity stuff except for one mild superpower that was more cool than pay2win, even though technically it had an effect in fights.
I will subscribe. I always point out $15/mo. is nothing for people with a job and aren't underwater on a mortgage, especially how much time you play. Com0are vs. a movie or dinner out.
I can see students and the like using F2P, but engineers and so on, wtf. "I paid for the game once, I am sure they invested it to fund servers in perpetuity!"

__________________

The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

Radiac
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I agree with Interdictor and

I agree with Interdictor and Gorgon for the most part.

Also, I would add that , to me, endgame content for PvE didn't really mean "more level 50 missions to do" as I often actually skipped the new Signature Story Arcs that CoX had, despite the fact that I kept paying for VIP until the end. For me, the end game PvE content was the Incarnate system, and then also just continuing the long, slow process of perfecting/tweaking builds on existing toons. The existence of ultra-rare "purple" Enhancements was a beneficial thing for this, at least for me, as were the better procs and uniques among the rares, etc.

What I'm saying is, in the long term, I'm probably going to play and level alts a lot, and when I do jump back on my main toon or one of my older, more well-built toons, it will be because I'm trying to succeed in a "Master of" run on a TF or something like that, and possibly to take a swing at getting some ultra-rare item for one of my toons to use. I know some people will grind many many hours longer than I will to get the best stuff for their toon as fast as possible (presumably so they can then proceed to dominate in PvP with their now optimal toons), but I never did that. To me, getting all my toons totally "done" in terms of their builds was the eventual dream that kept me going in the endgame. That and iTrials were a lot of fun and always rewarding.

If you take away the "purples", you take away the possibility that I could make my main toon any better in the very long term, and as such I probably don't play that toon very much after I get it leveled up and fully kitted out. If I do play it after that, it's because that toon has a better chance of getting items than any of my other toons have.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Simple: -A really good

Simple:

-A really good character creator. Example below
http://mmos.com/editorials/mmorpgs-with-the-best-character-customization

-No forced PVP and no PvP in PvE. City of Heroes was really enjoyable blue side because I really do not have constant fear of being "ganked" by someone or a group of people because they can. I AM LOOKING AT YOU EVE ONLINE!!!! I AM NOT IN LOW SECTOR, LEAVE ME ALONE!!

-What Interdictor and Gorgon said. Again just Leave PvP and PvE separate.

-Good sound design with good graphics for some awesome immersion experience that cannot be felt unless you modded the heck out out of that single player game.

-Stories for mutant classes(if there is one)

That sums me up

All 4 Mutants

Evolution is key. And mutants are key.

Lin Chiao Feng
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Izzy wrote: Would you Love
Izzy wrote:

Would you Love or Hate:- Auto Tabbed Targeting for (Melee) Powers in Certain Power-sets:Ex: Closest Foe is auto targeted for Single Target attacks.

Hate. Target should only change when I press something to demand it. No spreading my attacks around four targets at about the same range because one attack one is closer by an inch and the next attack someone else is closer.

Izzy wrote:

And for a Cone based power, auto targets the foe that's in the Middle of your View.

Nope. Cone powers should either center on existing target, or if no target, use character facing. Sometimes I need to get two things in a cone, and the angle between them is less than the cone angle but greater than half the cone angle.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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I know this keeps getting

I know this keeps getting overlooked a lot, but Star Trek Online has BOTH Tab Target and Shooter Mode controls built into its ground game, and you can freely switch between them using a keybind. Most STO Players don't even know that there's a Shooter Mode in the game for ground, and thus don't get to enjoy the thrill of lobbing AoE grenade attacks exactly where you want them to go without needing to be locked onto a $Target ... including shooting them into empty hallway junctions to let the blast radius take out stuff beyond the Line of Sight around the corner!

So that's an example of being ABLE to do BOTH in a single game engine and pay no "penalty" in gameplay for doing so.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
blacke4dawn
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Well, considering that STO is

Well, considering that STO is essentially a shooter game on the ground then having a shooter mode makes sense. I don't think it's so much a question of if they can do it mechanically but rather if the game play lends itself to a shooter mode to such a degree that it's worth the cost of implementing it. Personally I don't see it being worth it (based on how CoH was played).

The one change I think that can essentially make a shooter mode redundant would be if ranged AoE's could be used as ground targeted AoE's when not having a target and as target AoE's when having one. Maybe include a temporary forced mode in the cast command for macros and such.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Izzy wrote: Would you Love or Hate:- Auto Tabbed Targeting for (Melee) Powers in Certain Power-sets:Ex: Closest Foe is auto targeted for Single Target attacks.Hate. Target should only change when I press something to demand it. No spreading my attacks around four targets at about the same range because one attack one is closer by an inch and the next attack someone else is closer.Izzy wrote: And for a Cone based power, auto targets the foe that's in the Middle of your View.Nope. Cone powers should either center on existing target, or if no target, use character facing. Sometimes I need to get two things in a cone, and the angle between them is less than the cone angle but greater than half the cone angle.

+1 on morphing auto targets. This is one of the things that annoys me the most in GW2. You can't maneuver and maintain your same target.

Neither, do I want the computer choosing what I'm targeting for my cone attacks. I had to work hard to maximize the line up for my shadow mauls; don't need the computer messing it up.

Now if the devs gave us options to fine tune (customize) the targeting then both sides of this idea could be served.

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Looking further into the

Looking further into the future:

Completely procedurally generated worlds and animals and intelligent species, functioning in a proper perdator-prey cycle.

There are no static spawns. There are no theme parks. There are just natural populations expanding and contracting and spreading based on predator/prey.

This gives players the opportunity for true persistent worlds, where they can push back against encroaching clans of bad guys, or animals.

Here's a key feature: City guards would not be gods, and sufficient numbers of encroaching whatevers might overwhelm them and make it into the city.

Add spreading plants (allow cities to hire garbage men and gardners to trim it back, again, live predator prey style persistent world activity).

GMs could tweak things slowly by boosting reproduction rates, or could direct intelligent clans to advance towards a city or something.

In SW: TOR, I just murdered 3 guards not 15 feet from another "guard". Sooooooo sick of static spawn points.

__________________

The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

Lin Chiao Feng
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This was brought up long ago

This was brought up long ago when we discussed the "Control Points" system Tabula Rasa had.

If "city guards" aren't gods, then you get griefing. Lots of it. Forever. No matter what mechanism you concoct to take its place, griefers will Find A Way.

It's a nice idea, but results in an insane amount of extra computation for little benefit. (Yay, now we have to compute hunger for every damn cat in northeast Massachusetts.) There are better ways to improve boring old spawn points.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Hence looking "further into

Hence looking "further into the future".
As for griefing, I did not say pvp, so killing guards is less an issue. Furthermore, nobody said they would be wimps, and proper reputation tracking would make such griefers kos to guards instantly.
Perhaps you missed the part about no more static spawn points? Guards would not sit like idiots waiting to be prayed on. They might summon help. Intelligent AI would then place more guards, making killing them harder.
With proper AI design of predator prey dynamics, this should even fall out naturally.

And yes, I do intent for monsters to invade naturally and occasionally overwhelm cities. That's the whole point.

And in old-school MMORPGs, high levels "dragging" monsters into cities is exactly the kind of excitement that's great, but not by that method, or by player direction.
Every objection you list are the same tired regurgitations I've been hearing for many years now
It is time to sweep that away and get fresh developers in. Those who can find a way to get it done, and fire the crotchety old ones who say they can't.

__________________

The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.