Most games throw a lot of information at you. DCUO will show you where the bad guys are. Guild Wars 2 tells you the special attacks of mobs. Wildstar and Neverwinter will tell you where the enemy is about to attack. And they all tell you how much life an enemy has left. There is a better way. In the superhero genre there is an answer. Our heroes know things that normal people don't, and they know things that their allies don't either. CoT needs a system of Super Senses! Players would use skill points to gain insight into the world around them. A danger sense ability would let a character know where the enemy is about to attack. Clairvoyance would let you know the locations of the enemy. Cosmic awareness lets players sense the weaknesses (see WL2) and the special attacks of enemies. Deathwatch tells you how much more health the enemy has. Eagle eye allows heroes to zoom their vision across vast distances like a sniper rifle in a shooter. And Telepathy could be used to link the minds of heroes in a group or small area so they can all share their senses. If this was implemented in CoT it would give this game features that have never been explored in MMOs, it would offer new dimensions to team work between players, and it would increase replayabiltiy.
What super sense would you like see?
A couple come immediately to mind; Infra-red or low light vision, making it easier to operate in darkened environments. MHz frequency radar allowing characters to see through walls (with limited detail).
How much information on an enemy would a player without super scenes get? Seeing the health bar and ongoing status effects is kind of important from a game-play stance. I don't have a problem with enhanced scenes granting more information, such as damage type weaknesses or location of mobs on the map outside of visual range, but we will need some basic information on our foes to just play the game.
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The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Something like this could be implemented as powers selectable from a generic power pool available to all characters. These powers could also form the basis of a whole group of sensory "temp powers" which could be item/device based but the general idea would be that the temp powers would be less effective overall than having the full "permanent" power version. This would allow players the option to either become highly specialized in these abilities (by selecting permanent pool powers) or rely on lesser temp power versions of these things.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I like this idea, except for the bit about determining the remaining health of the enemy. That is too fundamental of a thing to require a power to ascertain, although I could support a special sense that gives you the exact numbers instead of a general bar.
Personally, I would like to see X-Ray vision, because looking through walls is fun, and it could help a lot with finding hostages/glowies. Super hearing could be pretty cool too; you could have the MOBs talking to each other, or making quiet noises while walking on a patrol, that wouldn't get picked up by non-super hearing users unless they were close, but that you could see all the speech bubbles from all the active MOBs on the map if you activated super hearing.
I am not sure how useful being able to zoom the camera would be, and I think introducing low light/visibility mechanics for the sake of infrared vision is a bad idea by creating cases where everyone who doesn't take the power is handicapped. But something that flavorfully allows for enemy and glowie detection would be great, be it a way to look through walls, or hear every enemy on the map, or some sort of clairvoyance that just shows you where things are on the mini-map.
You could do this in CoX anyway, but mousing over the bars when you have the mob targetted....
Assuming there will be cases where the light level is limited (night, underground/lairs, etc.) it would seem odd that there is no power to alleviate that.
True. If you're design calls for light levels to be limited in such a way that it actually makes a visibility difference, as opposed to just adjusting the atmosphere, then having senses to counteract that makes sense. The only MMO I have played that actually had low light mechanics where it made it hard to see enemies or terrain was Everquest back in 1999, and although I have fond memories of wandering around Toxxulia in the dark, I don't think I would want that in a modern game. All of the newer ones I have played always have sufficient light in the environment to see the enemies and terrain well enough to navigate and fight effectively, which seems like it would mitigate the need for a low-light or infrared vision.
I'd like this blended into a "Path" system much like those of Wildstar. Non-combat powers are planned, and I think they should follow playes' playstyles.
Adventurers like to find hidden/hard to reach places. Give them a system that rewards exploring the city.
Archeologists like to find out about the City's history. Give them a system that rewards studying the city.
Soldiers like to "beat stuff up" give them a badge and let them go hunt 200 X or 250 Y for their perks.
RPers (Settlers) want people to stop by and have a chat.. set up a system that counts how often other players come to their player housing.. give them all the "bars" and emotes they could dream of.
By tying this non-combat system to super sense a psychic character could seek out the nearest safehouse (Archeologists seeking out Settlers) to find a clue to where the next lore computer is or book they should read. It only opens up with the two paths interact.
A soldier can open a instance where he fights waves of enemies and if you are an explorer you have your senses point you in that instance to a vantage point where you can find out where they're coming from if you use your travel powers to get there. (Explorers really are just Travel Power Games but I like them)
The use of Non-Combat powers would trigger these smaller side missions. (see a door through a wall or have mental mind reading to find it or find it by reading computer specs etc)
Crowd Control Enthusiast
There is a series of missions in The Secret World where if you forget to pick up the torch helmet (workmans style) and equip it, you really cannot see much at all, no matter how high you set your gamma values.
And as it is an active directed light source, it only lit stuff up in the direction the lamp is pointing... which can make a lightshow happen if you have enough players around with it and they all dance (the light follows the orientation of your head).
I like you AJSB. I would even enter the hardcore gameplay that displays no enemy health bars, but I believe we are the minority.
I’ll start by listing the things I disliked seeing in other games that were freely available to everyone that generally ruined gameplay, especially in a PvP sense. The concept of making those into individual abilities or devices intrigues me. I will argue against each point if I must.
- Enemy “Power” Bar "Oh, enemy healer out of power? Switch to the offensive!"
- Enemy Equipment
- Enemy Stats/Resistances
- Enemy Target (As in, you know who they are going to attack next.)
- Enemy Buffs/Debuffs
- Enemy numbers that portray when an Effect is about to expire (Such as a stun)
- Enemy Group composition or Health-bars displayed (As in those not targeted)
- Enemy Level (As in numbers. Level 28 vs. “Player is Yellow Con”, or nothing at all)
- Enemy “Charge” Gauge: In Champion’s Online, it’s a bar that’s a countdown for a nasty attack. Rather, you should be reading an enemy’s movements, not an indicator.
- Enemy Map position
- Friendly Map position (Those not in your Group)
- Monster Map position
- Event Map position
- Indicators that portray a class. Such as a Healer with a Cross floating above their head.
- Rising/Falling “Numbers”, that displays damage received or healed on the player.
- Face/Stick (to an extent) “I have this player targeted, but he’s out of sight, however I can stick/face and instantly find his location.”
Basically, do away completely with Map positions, indicators, and things that make delving into the enemy’s information logs and instead encourage reading an enemy’s actions.
Here are a few things I would like to see. Mind, I feel some of these should be a part of a PvP reward system. I also believe these should be toggles or timed abilities should also places “filters” on the player’s screen, so they are useful, but not encouraged to always be toggled on. Also mind, some visions may not display objects (vividly) sense they do not give off any form of essence to read. (As in, you would be more likely to run into objects)
- Blood Lust: (Red Filter) Can view those who are wounded. Those closest to death will glow the brightest red, those with some lost health will glow partially, and those at full life will only display a feint outlining figure in red.
- Energy Sense: (Blue Filter) Can view other players’ energy levels. Those at full-power will glow bright blue, those who have expanded all of their power don’t glow at all, or appear feint.
- Heat Vision: (Heat filter) See heat signatures of everyone. Doesn’t tell you anything other than the fact that a player is around. Could be useful in shrouded or dark environments, or to detect those who are stealth.
- Detect Flaw(s): Simply put, detect an enemy’s weak points.
Ok, this is silly, but I have to say it.
Once or twice I had a glitch in CoH where when I was in the exact right position I could see all of the mobs in the whole door mission through the walls, even those on floors above and below and up and down the elevator. IT WAS FRIKKIN XRAY VISION!!!
If there was something like that--probably you should not be allowed to move or fight while using it to limit it and it'd be cool if it showed stealthed mobs--that would be pretty darn cool. You could really plan out your strategies for rooms and get a significant advantage. And you could make it cool by making the mobs partially transparent with their bones showing.
Frivolous, I know, but it was one of the memorable magical moments in the game for me, so why not actually implement it?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I talked about this in another thread but here's what I came up with:
1. Darkvision and or Infravision: See Infrared or use other non-visible wavelengths, or light gathering electronics/optics to see in tha dark, either via heat signatures or some kind of black and white "cat vision" where you see in really dark areas with no color information, just greyscale. Both would be toggles. I would expect these powers would be some kind of rendering trick, but from what I've seen, it looks like U4 can do this. I'm no expert tho.
2. Enhanced Scent: when you're on a map, get information about it without having to spawn it all, approximate number of mobs, type of badguys. You can smell different weapon odors (gunpowder, flammible liquids, etc) and you can detect distinct odors of specific badguys you've smelled before (archvillains, elite bosses, etc). Click to activate, then the power gives you the info in the form of some kind of thought bubble over your head and/or report in the "combat numbers" data stream.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
The previously mentioned sensing powers could also hint at one or more of the following:
1. Environmental hazards - warning the player before they take damage (e.g. radiation detection, traps)
2. Otherwise hidden destructible items or unlockable areas that may contain some temporary power boost or item/currency (wall safes, secret rooms, medical equipment)
3. Features of the environment that could be used for tactical advantage during a fight (e.g. sniper positions, equipment that would stun/damage nearby enemies if activated or hit with damage from long range)
4. I'm sure we could imagine other new environmental benefits/hazards or things about an enemy's AI behavior that a supersense might allow the PC to detect more easily or with more forewarning time than a normal superhero would have. Taking a bit of inspiration from recent Batman, Deus Ex, and Assassin's Creed games, one could imagine those senses (or technology with a similar effect) allowing the player to know which door of several is the most direct route to a particular objective based on the scent, sounds, or wear patterns on the floor, or which network nodes must be compromised in sequence to prevent an alarm. Potentially useful for a steather of any alignment, a detective-type hero who is concerned with gathering evidence before the criminals can be alerted to destroy it or attack, and anyone whose advantages depend on knowing/predicting what is about to happen (ambush incoming, or enemy robot about to trigger a self-destruct). It opens the possibility of alternate ways to complete some missions, or even allows new mission types seldom seen in MMOs; ones that are somewhat more puzzle-driven or which rely on planning a safe, unnoticed break-in (and would be quite difficult without the hints provided by the sensing powers).
In addition to super senses, specialized knowledge (of medical equipment, explosives, or safecracking, for instance) might enable the player to make use of environmental features as well, or be required in addition to the senses needed to detect those features. For example, an optional mission objective might point you to a safe containing delicate vials of nanomachines, which could require infravision or superhearing, plus safecracking, to successfully open without destroying the contents. Day jobs could provide access to this "specialized knowledge". I wouldn't make this part of any required mission objectives, of course.
I understand the complexity of some of these features, and wouldn't want them to delay the game launch. However, keeping them in mind for future issues would definitely make CoT very advanced in terms of player freedom to complete objectives from the angles they choose, and freedom to choose mission types that fit an under-served segment of character concepts (careful planner, super hacker, master thief, ...) in MMOs of today, superhero or otherwise. Most are almost exclusively combat-focused in their mission design.
SWTOR has something vaguely similar in that certain flashpoints have shortcuts that can be used (activated) by someone with the appropriate crafting/gathering skill. In one case a character could activate a pet (I never did find out if that pet was in any way useful). This could have been somewhat interesting, although I don't know if they have bothered to continue using the idea.
My only reservation about any super sense powers is that they should not reach a point of being so useful that they are perceived as a necessity, particularly for group oriented content.
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The no visible hit points issue seems to be sticking point for a lot of people. First, it was just an example. All of my WISH LISTS posts are just vague ideas meant to hopefully inspire a dev. Second, if you did have game that had no visible health bars you would need visible battle damage. You would know who was badly damaged, but you wouldn't know the exact percentage. One thing that is fascinating is that in DnD, which fantasy games are based on, you didn't know the hp count of your enemies or sometimes even yourself, but no one freaked out about it. I am sure someone is going to nit pick this last point, but show me where it says in some dungeon master's guide where the dm must give exact current hp over max hp counts on player demand.
I really liked Empyrean's anecdote about xray vision glitch. That's really fun.
Might lose a little of the fun of them though. What they could do instead is put warnings on missions "Mission requires and/or has a secret that will use such and such super sense"
I meant that super senses should not become a de facto necessity, as was the case with certain addons for raiding in WoW, for example. People tended to either assume everyone had those addons or specifically announced that those would be required. I don't know if Blizzard ever designed any boss encounters with the assumption in mind that everyone would have one or the other addon, though it would not surprise me if that were the case. In other words, "LFM for Posi TF, must have Astral Vision" is bad.
If it's nothing more than that one super sense or another allows the player to discover some shortcut or a secret, that's fair. On the other hand, if that secret rewards the player with a badge or really good loot, that once again is a problem.
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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Have to disagree with the badge aspect, as I never saw a reason someone HAD to have all the badges outside of them feeling they HAVE to have them all.
Like when people felt cheated out of the badge placed in Hero side tutorial after launch. Oh well, you missed it. Out leveled a badge mission? Find someone else who has it or oh well.
Part of the experience, can you or can you not get that badge.
Sound-Vision? This could have come in handy when i was hunting 50 Carnies all over PI. :(
I think it would be really cool for things like that. Imagine, your character needs to find X group to get information from them or something (like the Carnies mission). They fly up high over the city and activate their super hearing, filling the screen with small speech bubbles from all the MOBs in a large radius, letting you look for "sounds" that match the group you need to find. You "hear" a group of thugs from the faction you're hunting plotting a breakin behind a building two blocks away, so you turn on your X-ray vision and look through the building to assess your foes and see them planting dynamite on the back wall of a bank. You think you can take them, so you zoom off to stop them, forming a plan of attack on the way.
I feel like it would be pretty superheroey, and would be a cool quality of life power like travel powers are.
"If a street thug threatens a citizen and no hero is around to hear it, does he actually make a sound?"
Seriously. I don't know how this is programmed. Are the random mobs actually spouting dialog whether you're in range to hear it or not? Otherwise, I llike the idea of turning on "Super Hearing", having your screen fill up with dialog bubbles and having to sift through the "noise" to find a crime in progress.
Myself, I see the super-sense type powers as being used in more of a "pulse" fashion. You activate the power and you get a brief glimpse beyond walls, into darkness, revealing hidden/invisible stuff, etc. The actual presentation of that information could vary according to the power, but would essentially transmit the same info. That way, you could have the power that fit your character concept. I'd put a fairly substantial cool-down on the pulse and a limited range. Both of which you could "enhance" or "boost" as you leveled up.
A system like this would really encourage teamwork rarely seen in MMOs I think it sounds awesome.
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
A system like this would really encourage teamwork rarely seen in MMOs I think it sounds awesome.
I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.
I like this idea, but it'd need to be implemented carefully. A mission or TF couldn't require such advanced perception, or this does NOT encourage teaming, and instead requires TFs to pick certain members.
A clever way to go about it could be this:
A mission has two tracks, one with no advanced perception, one with a need of x-ray vision or something. One track would need to be roughly the same difficulty as another, or refer to the above. The TF would be programmed to tell if a member has X-ray, infrared, vision, super-hearing, super-smelling, or other advanced perceptions, and drives the TF to that track. BUT, if the super-sensing member drops for whatever reason, the TF can still be completed, but is harder (maybe not, but if so, would discourage kicking).
I'm with Darth here.
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Different missions vary in difficulty. A mission shouldn't always call for someone to have a particular sense. As for those that do, they could subtly hint that you may be required to have an ability. "This trial will test your vision. Can you see that which the typical human cannot?"
I like this route, and SWTOR used something similar in some of their content as well, where some of your trade skills can add/remove obstacles in the general route...
This can lead to other areas/routes through the basic content... It might not necessarily be *harder* content, but an alternative. However, it *could* potentially make it slightly easier, but not so easy as to be "essential to have".
Something similar is being done in the open world content of Wildstar, where the explorer can discover new content in a zone, which a soldier/scientist path follower can then use, to generate new "content on the fly" for those who are grouped up.... and the soldier hold outs scale up according to the number of players who are doing them (apparently someone got 40 other players to do the same hold out, and that generated a LOT of extra mobs for it).
The same happens with the wildstar dungeons (from what I have seen in the one that I have tried so far).... in that they can add to it, make it *slightly* different... and not necessarily easier but also have possible extra rewards for doing so.
side note: Wildstar also has dungeon missions that change each time to try it and you get a bonus if you complete all the missions that you are given. So no two successive attempts should be the same.
It depends on how you program it. I believe City of Heroes only had stuff trigger speaking when someone got close to enemies, but there is no reason you can't make them have scripted conversations while waiting around that a hero can walk in on or pick up with super hearing. You could also do constant passive noises, like a *whirr* or *grr* sort of thing for certain enemies that would only be picked up by super hearing.
I doubt the talking would be a performance issue, the only concern I would have would be whether you mess with any level-streaming optimizations in the game engine where maybe the server hasn't actually told the client about the existence of enemies outside of a certain range, and increasing that could require keeping more data in sync between the client and server.
I am not sure if that would be an issue; I believe Unreal 4 has level streaming code, which I think is there to support large levels without loading screens, but I am not sure how that interacts with the networking code, client/server replication for MOBs, and if it would change detection range.
Still, I think it would be cool if there aren't technical problems blocking the idea.
Neverwinter has a similar idea, where "arcane skill" can manipulate magical items and "dungeoneering skill" can reveal/move hidden doors in the environment to provde an alternate path through the level. It's only used occasionally, but it's a nice touch for variety. These levels can be completed even if no one has the skill, and "skill kits" (purchaseable versions, like lockpicks) can allow anyone to trigger these interactive objects. Applied to our theme, purchased technology temp powers could let anyone trigger these optional interactive features.
I'd envision Super Senses as more of a QoL type thing that could add flavor to a character. If it had the "pulse" mechanic I suggested above it might work like this: You're making your way through a hallway and you come upon a closed door that is obviously the way forward. So you "ping" your-
Super Hearing - Your view takes on a color tint and superimposed on the door and walls in front of you are vague silhouettes showing the locations of mobs and what any of them might be saying at that moment in word balloons
Infra Vision - Much like the above, but you see more detailed rainbow colored heat signatures against a dark blue featurless background
Keen Olfactory - The walls fade and you see amorphous shapes trailing streamers as they move (maybe inherently longer duration)
The effect lasts only a second (unless you boost its Duration) and diminishes the further away from you it is until your max range. (which can also be boosted) It moves out in a spherical bubble, so you can see what may be on the floors above and below you as well.
I can see it being particularly useful to a solo stealth type character, allowing them to more carefully plan an assault. But it doesn't actually help them fight. The effect is brief and has a significant cooldown. (which might be lessened by a boost) I can see it helping to locate mobs that are hidden/cloaked in combat, maybe allowing you to target one during the ping. But you'd have to re-acquire new targets when that mob went down.
So while it may be of some limited utility in combat, and could potentially aid a team, I wouldn't see it significantly changing the way a team dynamic would work unless the team was really working to give the players some RP opportunities. Bottom line; whether it helps in combat or not, it would be a power you are choosing instead of something else. You'd have to weigh its effectiveness against your playstyle and character concept. Just like any other choice. But it sure would fill a niche in the Super Hero genre.
Exactly this. In that way, they would be like travel powers. They're useful, they make your life easier, and they have some limited combat utility, but they are not required to do any content.
But some of us would love some content that requires Dark Sight/Infrared Vision Perk! Or maybe Enhanced Smell/X-Ray vision to find that hidden special boss fight in the mission!
Agree with you!
I would like to respond to a bomb alarm and be able to detect the bomb laying somewhere in a building in Titan city...
I think by content he meant "mainline" content, ie the stuff that you dont necessarily have to go out of the way to do...
I would treat anything unlocked by an "optional" power pick to be "nice, but not essential" content.... so the typical group cannot necessarily get stymied to complete a taskforce because they didn't have a guy who could see through the wall to find the hidden room, which had a mob inside it that you HAD to kill to complete said mission.
Hehe.. imagine if Atta (mish in Hollows) got his hands on a device or a right or whatever, that cloaked his true identity and looked like any of his other gazillion thugs in that mish. It might come in handy for a scout on the team to use their See Through Cloak powers, be it magical or technological, to identify who and where he is. Its not necessary for the completion of the mish, but the Team sure would appreciate it. ;)
You mean like this?
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
That's a good example, but there would be a variety of senses.
Ideas like super vision or hearing are staples and comics and would like them included in the game.
But like most others I would caution against making them too useful so as to be required. I would also not like any location or foe to be barred because I don't have access to a power. Saying you need super vision to see the secret door is like saying you need fire blast to burn the plants out of your way.
The way around this is to make it so that there is an *alternative* method of getting a "similar effect" whilst running said content.
Sure, it could be an alternative route to get the "Hidden door revealer", and then back to where the hidden door would pop up, but this wouldn't necessarily "cut you out" of doing the content.
And if the hidden stuff is *optional* to complete (and I mean that it is *not* necessary to complete this to actually complete the mission/TF), then it isn't as much of a worry. If it is something that the player wants to complete (for extra rewards or what not), then there is still the ability for them to do it.
But I wouldn't put anything behind a brick wall in terms of "you need X/Y/Z to complete it"
That's when you call in a friend who has the senses you need! :)
In theory that's good in practice its bad (IMO).
Remember the missions in CoX that required two to complete. Remember how they raised a huge uproar.
I don't even really remember the content for those missions because once I had done them once with one character I avoided them or used the later 'auto-complete' button. They fact that when I teamed I never saw those missions again just leads me to believe other did the same.
When you require an ability to experience content, even if the content is considered optional, you just limit the game overall.
Hero1: *pulls out his cellphone*
Hero2: "What are you doing?"
Hero1: "I'm calling The Bat."
Hero2: "The Bat? Why are you calling that jackass? He Sucks!"
Hero1: "Yes, but he can see in the dark."
Hero2: ...
Be Well!
Fireheart
It could be built into the mission itself. For instance, the Mission Object is to "Find and Defeat MegaTherm" and he's behind a hidden wall somewhere in the facility. If you have some kind of Super Sense on the team you can either find the Secret Door with your Infra vision, or hear him giving orders through the wall with Ultra hearing, etc, and you can go pretty much straight to the place and find him. Otherwise, you have to go off and do a sort of side mission. Like, get past security to find a map of the facility (which now shows the room on your mini-map) or get into the armory to equip some Inra-red goggles as a temp power that let you see him through the wall, or whatever.
In a situation like this, the group having to beat down some securiy might get a smidge more XP than those who can go straight in. Maybe there's a bonus for taking out MegaTherm within a time limit? Just looking for a way to balance rewards.
I think you could design content that could make use of super senses without making it a binary yes/no can do/can't do check. For example, imagine a mission where you've fought your way to a huge chamber with a core reactor/giant robot/enemy leader/etc in the middle who needs to be defeated. The chamber has 10 or 15 passageways that feed into it from all directions and elevations, making it impossible for a single team to guard them all while still dealing with the threat. The enemy will periodically call in reinforcements, who will spawn from one of the hallways and make their way into the main chamber. Once they get there, they naturally spread out and start shooting/closing to melee range, making them a giant pain since the tank won't have aggro on them and they'll be spread out so they can't be AOE'ed down easily.
If you have a super sense and are alert, you can hear them coming down a hallway with super hearing or quickly scan all the hallways through the walls with X-ray vision and dispatch a tank or someone with high burst AOE abilities to deal with the incoming group while they're still bottled up in a corridor. If you don't have super senses to pick up the incoming squads, you'll just have to deal with them when they get to the main chamber, which would make the fight harder but could still be handled in other ways. I expect that there would be many opportunities like this for supersenses to be useful, but not required, if missions are designed well with them in mind.
That is along the lines that I was thinking of really. To be fair, if you look at some of the badges in CoX, although you *could* get them with pretty much any team, and power set combinations in the team, some were notably FAR FAR harder than other team setups.
And giving people incentives (bonuses for speed for example, number of "optional" objectives completed etc), provide that incentive for people to keep on trying at some content.
Hell, even having a leader board for "fastest time on server" and have it also track your own personal bests as well would be interesting. (Yes, I am on a bit of a speed running kick right now, or at least watching people speed run computer games)