The Nemesis system from CO is a great idea for a superhero mmo. The downside is that this system can never surprise you. I am suggesting that the game create the Nemesis's and ambush you with them before it gives you a chance to modify them.
The game would use a few different stat templates to generate the Nemesis:
Random- Self Explanatory
Clone- The same stats as you. Example: Abomination, General Zod
Clone+ - Takes -5% off of every stat and dumps those points to your highest stat. This gives a villain who is a bit better than you at what your special skill is. This makes him more specialized. Example: Sabertooth, Conquest
Clone- - Takes -5% off of every stat and dumps those points to your lowest stat. This gives you a villain who is similar to hero, but doesn't suffer from his weaknesses. This makes him more well rounded. Example: Venom
Resistor- This Nemesis is designed to be resistant to your special skill. If the character is based on damage over time, the Resistor will have regeneration or a way to shake those conditions. If the character is based on critical hits, the Resistor will have critical hit mitigation and reduced chance. Example: Sinestro
Exploiter- The Exploiter finds the hole in your defenses and hits it as hard as possible. If a character has no resistance to telepathy you will fight a telepath. Example: Metalo, Silver Banshee
Demolisher- This SOB takes your prime defensive ability and makes it irrelevant. If a character is based heavily on regeneration, this guy does damage that can't be regerated. If you have excellent crit resistance, he just deals damage over time. Example: Omega Red
The Nemesis would then be given a theme that is appropriate to your character, a randomly generated name and costume, and he's ready to ambush you. The Nemesis would also be given a story line to follow. This would be what their ultimate goal is. It could be to build a death ray, become a demon lord, summon their home world's alien fleet, etc. After the main story they will continue to harass you.
Another layer to this system is that you can fight your alt's nemesis's. It'd be fun to see how another character does against a guy who is designed to kill a different character.
The big cherry on top is that once your have completed the Nemesis's main story, you can activate them as a Player Character. This would create a great deal of demand for additional character slots, as the player already has some interest in the character. This could raise a lot of money through micro transactions. Once activated, the Nemesis could fight the original character as their Nemesis.
Randomly generated name and costume!? AUGH!
:) More seriously, I would love to see a robust Arch Enemy-type system in the game. Not sure if such a thing would make launch, but one can hope.
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I sympathize lol. The costume's might not be as hard as it seems. Costume pieces could be placed in categories. A medieval type enemy would have random pieces from a pool of the armored pieces. Science fiction enemies would have a costume from a Jack Kirby inspired pool.
I really like the idea of a nemesis in the game, personally I would prefer more control over it but not adverse to a random one.
Some issues that would need to be looked at so this didn't become stale is how do you breath life into a randomly generated foe. I mean if he just shows up and shouts 'Aha ...I have you now' then you fight that nemesis he/she becomes just another mob.
The foe has to have goals other than just to fight your character and those goals should mesh with your character concept.
On a side note I remember hearing something about this on youtube...let me see if I can find it.
Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K83BGAZl-G8
Its at about 10:50 where this idea is talked about a bit.
Maybe there's a middle ground where we specify some bits and others are randomly generated?
I would love to see the whole personal nemesis thing done right. Regardless of how the nemesis is specified, I'd really like to see him/her/it appear unexpectedly at times. Just going through a normal mission and then... "Oh... it's YOU again!"
Spurn all ye kindle.
+1, but not random. If customizable, people would spend as much time dinkering around with their Nemesis as their Heroes/Vaillans, which would be another form of altitis and a fun, positive time sink for the game. Of course attacks and situations should be as randomized as possible for fun. And options are always good, so a randomly generated option would be great in addition to a customizable system.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
The idea I'd like to see implemented here would be to create your own Nemesis at the start up when you create your own character. You could then choose what the Nemesis looks like, name them, and then choose the powers that they have. They will then level up at the same speed you do, if not maybe a little bit faster to provide a bit more challenge. You could then randomly see them throughout your missions and maybe have an entire arc that is devoted to your Nemesis. At the end game your Nemesis could then be a major character in the missions you run from that point on. Perhaps even having something involving everybody's Nemesis pop up while teamed together so that you have to fight them all. Something like a League of Doom or Sinister Six type mission.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
I'm all in favor of it, as long any auto-generated nemesis is also optional; obviously a player-generated nemesis is optional by its very nature. There are enough characters whose background/origin (e.g. I just arrived from collapsed universe X) or modus operandi (e.g. extreme undercover agent) don't support having a nemesis, or at least doesn't support a nemesis who regularly interferes, so we should allow for the "no nemesis" or "my nemesis wouldn't find me, I find him" cases.
Excellent point, Scott.
Spurn all ye kindle.
I'm seeing a lot of people say they don't want the Nemesis to be randomized. Do you guys really want to know what he or she is going to do even before the first encounter? I would really rather be surprised. Later on there would be options to customize of course, but the initial surprise factor is what really appeals to me.
I think most of the resistance is either worry about whether or not the random nemesis will fit their character, or that the random avatar will look ridiculous. If we can find the middle ground [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52831#comment-52831]Cinnder mentioned[/url], that should cover both of those worries.
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Yeah but when does a so-called brand new "nemesis" ever randomly appear and announce, "Hello, You've never met me before but I've decided to become your nemesis today and hunt you down to the ends of the earth just because I had nothing better to do"?
The whole definition of a nemesis is a KNOWN adversary that continues to oppose you over and over again. They aren't really a nemesis until they've tried to get you multiple times. Sure you might not know the next time he/she will pop up to try to get you, but pretty much the only reason they are gunning for you in the first place is that you KNOW who they are and for some reason they are pissed at you.
Basically I think the idea of the game randomly generating a nemesis out of thin air for players is kind of silly. What's their motivation for hating you if they don't personally know you and therefore you don't personally know them? I have absolutely no problem with the idea of my long-time nemesis popping up RANDOMLY to attack me when I least expect it. But I'd totally hate the game assigning a random nemesis to me in the first place just on a whim without it making any sense.
This is why a nemesis system should allow players to define their (optional) nemesis as early as character creation. A player would KNOW who his/her nemesis is so there is no surprise about his/her powersets or modes of attack. That's not where the "surprise factor" of the relationship should come from. This way the nemesis would actually "make sense" in relation to my character and whenever the game RANDOMLY decided to spring them on me I could be "surprised" then.
Exactly.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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One advantage of having a nemesis be manually defined by the player is that the player could have complete control over just how powerful their nemesis is.
Some people might like the "general idea" of having a nemesis but don't really want to be worried that it could seriously smash them, especially if they can appear randomly. On the other hand the game could give you big extra rewards if you choose to make your nemesis a serious badass that could easily toast you.
You’d have no real control over any of this if your nemesis was automatically generated by the game.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That would be an awful lot of game design for the single 'oh wow' moment you're looking for with each character. From the way you have described what you want its more akin to a random foe than a Nemesis. I think that idea would be better served with a few mission that have a random boss without any mechanics to relate him/her/it to your character than act as a nemesis system. This way you get your initial surprise without it having the possibility to hinder a fitting nemesis.
Yeah maybe instead of all the nemesis "overhead" AJSB initially described the game could just occasionally throw specially randomized bosses at you and if you don't have an established nemesis already the game could let you choose (after the inital battle) to link that boss to you as a future recurring nemesis. Once linked that boss can get more powerful as you face him/her repeatedly later in the game.
So I see a hybrid system where you either get to manually define your own nemesis from the beginning OR the game can let you choose one from random candidates it tosses at you. The key point here is that you always have the final choice which way you want to do it if at all.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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Yeah, and this could also be expanded upon to let you have a 'rogues gallery' if desired.
Rogues Gallery is definitely a better term. It defuses a lot of dramatic tension, and makes it explicit that there will be more than one.
I think all the Rogues Gallery members could be reoccurring though. Remember, part of the pay off of the dev's is to allow players to activate Rogues as playable characters. This could be done through the cash store.
I think it's easy to see a kind of Black Cat character who only steals jewels. This type of character doesn't ambush you on raids or tries to murder you, but you will see her more than once. She could rob your base or the place you work as your secret identity.
You can also imagine kind of a brute character like Mammoth who might rampage downtown periodically. He's kind of a limited character on his own, but your Nemesis, your Lex Luthor, might hire him as a mercenary.
There might be singularly focused characters like Mr. Freeze who only want one thing.
Part of the system could be that Rogues could have joint missions. This means that you would get more variety of Rogues missions the further you went along in this system. It would start with team ups, and finish with something like the Sinister Six, while each villain had their own agendas.
I obviously can't speak for other players but I'm not really sure I'd have any desire whatsoever in playing any NPC as a playable character and therefore would never bother to "buy" one of these at the cash store. Not only would this imply that there's only a handful of hardwired preestablished "Rogues" that never change but you'd end up seeing multiple "clones" of these Rogues running around.
That kind of silliness might be fine for games like DCUO or Marvel Online that are geared towards directly playing (or exactly copying) established comic book characters. But a game like CoT is going to thrive on its ability to create and play UNIQUE characters of your own design. Playing as predefined NPCs is again the last thing I'd ever want to do in CoT.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I think the point AJSB was trying to make is that 'random' NPCs could fill a Rogues' Gallery, while the Player could design a playable Nemesis character and link them. That way, while you're playing your 'villain' character, the game could be sending Nemesis Plots(tm) after you, starring your very own 'hero' character and vice-versa.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I don't think so, I think he is referring back to his original post where he says this...
To which I have to agree with Lothic, it holds little interest for me.
What I imagine is that you would use blank character slots to turn the rogues into player characters. Since each player character might have up to 10 rogues, or so, you would soon need to buy new character slots.
The major advantage of this system is that you aren't really alting. You're continuing the story from a different angle. Let's say you activated your Black Cat type character. Whenever you try to steal something, there is a chance of your main showing up to stop you. It continues the relationship from a different angle. So then she gets her own rogues. They're heroes who try to stop her. You might have a Punisher type who is trying to kill her, or a kind of redeemer who wants her to be good. When you back to your main character, there is a chance that one of Black Cat's rogues would approach you to do a mission to stop Black Cat, or you may have to save Black Cat from the Punisher type character. She would also be able to team up with villains on the same account as a mercenary or for a big heist.
The rogues also wouldn't be completely without emotional attachment to the character. You could meet them through your secret identity as civilians. You might then discover they are villains later, or your friend might get horribly mutated because you failed a challenge. You might fail to save a sidekick who you trained. That could explain why their stats and abilities are so similar to your's. I know that one won't be popular, but I'm just slinging ideas around.
I have a feeling that Lothic wont' be convinced. Imagine the default is 5 character slots. If you have 10 rogues each, that gives you 50 rogues. I think you might be tempted to take one out for a ride.
I was going to save this for another post, but I would like to see a system of Sidekicks. These sidekicks would be customizeable with the same character builder that players use. They too can be activated using black character slots. They would also have access to their mentor's rogues gallery, but their relationship to them is different. If you activate your Robin type character, you wouldn't just randomly come across the Joker. You would be saving Batman from the Joker.
This would result in a new stories slowly unfolding by multiple playthroughs. You aren't replaying the game, you're unlocking new content. I know this would be a colossal investment in time and resources, but it's really something that has never been done before.
I not sure what you mean by blank character slots. Do you mean some of my character slots are filled with my nemesis? Sorry man I don't like that.
Which is a neat Idea, but if I have creative control over my nemesis I am perfectly capable of making my nemesis without a dedicated system where I have to buy him/her/it. All the other stuff seems like a game system unto itself.
A lot of what you are proposing is Random missions and npcs that tie to your single character. It's interesting but it too elaborate for my tastes. I'm all for a nemesis you have partial choice in creating, I could even get behind a sidekick (along the lines of a hireling in other MMO's) but the entire 'a connects to b connects to c' dynamic doesn't interest me. Sorry.
I mean, if you wanted to, you could fill a possible character slot with a rogue or sidekick. That would turn the NPC into a PC. You don't have to. It's an alternative to starting a new character from scratch.
A hireling? So you want to customize your nemesis, but not the guy by your side? I really don't understand that. Why would you not want to be able to customize?
Even if player interest was high for a way to enter the driver's seat of the NPC, however it was created, certain mechanics would need to be sorted out...especially whether a player's decision to convert the NPC sidekick or nemesis into a PC would start them back at level 1 or near the current level of the PC to whom they were attached.
If started at level 1, it raises questions of immersion and their "real" story since their development as an NPC alongside my PC would now be at risk of retcon as I level them through a second life. Which version of the nemesis/sidekick would appear if I resume playing the original PC - the correctly-leveled but older NPC version, or the "younger" PC temporarily converted back into NPC form and upgraded? Either one feels lacking, and nontrivial to code.
If started near current level, it enables a player to level extra characters alongside their original; when converted into active PCs, they'd have lots of XP but no loot or play experience. Economic impacts and "newbies at max level" (CoH's pejorative term was "AE babies") would discourage me from that second approach.
Maybe there's a workable middle ground that I'm missing, but so far I think the NPC->PC conversion option would degrade a nemesis and/or sidekick system.
I still don't understand what you originally meant when you commented on Nemesis or foe slots....could you explain it further for me.
I meant more the way one would get the sidekick. In the sense of buying or a level reward or some variation. But to answer your question further. Aside from costume and role (role as in archetype), no I don't think it a good idea to fully design your hirelings .... or sidekicks. There is just WAY too many options for abuse in that for my liking. Where a nemesis is a foe you face a few times, a sidekick can be with you always....or at the very least for the majority of the content. I would just hate to see a sidekick who through choice became nothing more than a buff bot.
When you log into the game, you would see a list of your player characters. You would also see how many open player character slots you have. So if you had three characters and the game allowed for five by default you would see three characters and two greyed out boxes. If you put your mouse over the greyed out boxes you would see two options 1)Create New Character 2)Activate NPC. The Create New Character option lets you start a character normally. The Activate NPC would load up the NPC (rogue or sidekick) almost like a saved game in the character creator.
If you had no more character slots, and you wanted to make a new character or activate an npc, you would have to buy more slots from the cash shop. The hope is that players would become emotionally attached to their NPC's or intrigued by the interconnected story, and this would push them to buy more slots. In this way, this admittedly work heavy system would pay for itself.
I see now. Its not that you lose a slot it just gives you an option on how to use that slot.
Its an interesting idea and I am not against it. I just don't see me being that interested in it. Sorry man, but I just prefer to have my new character be just that...new...