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WISH LIST 20: Very Rare Content

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AJSB
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WISH LIST 20: Very Rare Content

Being able to access good content freely leads to over playing Over playing leads to boredom. Boredom leads to me trolling this boards because I'm fed up with all the other MMOs I've played LOL.

1. Rare dynamic events. I don't mean this spawns ever hour. I mean this spawns every month. Players would hunt these events like Ahab hunted the White Whale. Players would research how to make this event spawn on the wiki's and watch videos on it. You want an example? How about cultists have kidnapped a girl, and are planning on sacrificing her to The Spinner in Darkness. If you save the girl, The Spinner (no not that kind of spinner :P) comes through the portal and attacks everything. The Spinner is a massive spider, that acts like a spider. She is large enough to straddle the road, and can walk up the walls of buildings. If she isn't immediately killed she starts weaving a web between two skyscrapers and laying eggs. The eggs hatch and more spiders come out. If she isn't stopped she can over run the neighborhood.

2. Unlock-able dungeons. Some dungeons may need keys to open them. These keys could be fairly rare drops, or they could be a difficult puzzle that only spawns once an hour. Ideally, these dungeons would be open to the public so if a player does a zone wide call for call for help everyone could come and help. An example could be first players need to get a gem of seeing. The gem could be a very rare drop from this one kind of enemy. Players would then equip the gem and use it. Most everything looks normal while looking through the gem, except for some areas have doors that are lined in golden fire when seen through the gem. Keys are found be defeating raid bosses. The key and gem are consumed by opening the door. No one knows what's behind the doors.

3. Rare super events. Rare super events are differentiated from rare dynamic events because they completely take over a district of Titan City, and they aren't player activated. An example is an alien invasion. The invasion would displace all the content in a certain area until the heroes won the battle. The invasion would fire back up in six months in a different district. This could be a lure to get inactive players back in the game by broadcasting the reactivation of the event on twitter and facebook

Lothic
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Having unlockable dynamic

Having unlockable dynamic events or dungeons would be cool. CoH actually dabbled with this idea by making one of its Giant Monsters (Adamastor) depedant on an item to "summon" it. I don't have a problem with making something like this rare (like only possible on the server once per day or somesuch) but the idea of making something like this be "once per month" seems way too limited and likely to make it something lots of people would never have a chance to see.

CoH also had several "once a year" events in the form of special Holiday-oriented game-wide events. They also has other semi-random Rikti Invasions which affected specific zones. They even had "Double XP" weekends several times a year. These were often pre-annouced and used to motivate old players to return as you suggested.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Automatisch
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Well, it is a great idea if

Well, it is a great idea if these once a month events are saturated with many different events. Monday 1st = giant spider Tuesday 2nd = Kaiju Invasion Wednesday 3rd = the Rise of the Dark God, etc. then next month you switch up the order.

I don't get mad, I restructure the laws of quantum physics and resolve the situation with temporal engineering.

Lothic
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Automatisch wrote:
Automatisch wrote:

Well, it is a great idea if these once a month events are saturated with many different events. Monday 1st = giant spider Tuesday 2nd = Kaiju Invasion Wednesday 3rd = the Rise of the Dark God, etc. then next month you switch up the order.

I don't have any problem with having lots of different events spread around semi-randomly throughout the game. I'm just saying that if you make a triggered/unlocked dynamic zone event specifically "only possible once a month" it's bound to be something that certain players may never get to see regardless of schedule. Just wondering if having something THAT rare would be worth it.

You can justify something like a once-a-year holiday event because everyone can plan for that. But a triggerable event that's on a "can only happen once a month" cooldown seems semi-pointless. The key is whether or not these rare events could be anticipated by players or not.

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Darth Fez
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

You can justify something like a once-a-year holiday event because everyone can plan for that. But a triggerable event that's on a "can only happen once a month" cooldown seems semi-pointless. The key is whether or not these rare events could be anticipated by players or not.

That is the basic flaw with the proposal. I prefer content that might become boring because I can play it any time over content that is boring (and will make me annoyed at MWM) because I cannot play it.

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Another factor in such rare

Another factor in such rare events would be duration. A "spawns once a month max" event that lasts for a week would IMHO be much better than something that is only around for an hour or so.

What is the advantage being sought in making them rare? Just the feeling of 'specialness' or difficulty, or something else?

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Lothic
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Lothic wrote:
You can justify something like a once-a-year holiday event because everyone can plan for that. But a triggerable event that's on a "can only happen once a month" cooldown seems semi-pointless. The key is whether or not these rare events could be anticipated by players or not.
That is the basic flaw with the proposal. I prefer content that might become boring because I can play it any time over content that is boring (and will make me annoyed at MWM) because I cannot play it.

I don't mind "event cooldown timers" as long as they're reasonable. Having a specific unique event that could only be triggered once a day on a server is probably fine - having one that could only be triggered once a month is semi-absurd. Even having one that could happen only once a week is probably pushing the concept of "rarity" to a breaking point.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lothic
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kitsune9tails wrote:
kitsune9tails wrote:

Another factor in such rare events would be duration. A "spawns once a month max" event that lasts for a week would IMHO be much better than something that is only around for an hour or so.
What is the advantage being sought in making them rare? Just the feeling of 'specialness' or difficulty, or something else?

The overall "duration" of rare events would definitely make a difference. Having something that you could only trigger once a month might be fine if any player had say several days or a week to take advantage of it once it was triggered. But if that triggerable event was something that was very short-lived (or even worse something that only the original team triggering the event could get credit for) then it would be overtly annoying and anti-fun.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Lothic wrote:
You can justify something like a once-a-year holiday event because everyone can plan for that. But a triggerable event that's on a "can only happen once a month" cooldown seems semi-pointless. The key is whether or not these rare events could be anticipated by players or not.
That is the basic flaw with the proposal. I prefer content that might become boring because I can play it any time over content that is boring (and will make me annoyed at MWM) because I cannot play it.

I agree with both you and kitsune9tails. In general more content is better, and any time I've found content locked behind walls of timing or level or whatever it's only been a frustration, not a motivation.

A big part of what I loved about CoH was TONS of content, and you could Sidekick/Exemplar/Oro into just about any content in the game. Very little content was locked away from you, and that was awesome!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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I think the predictability

I think the predictability factor is very important. The Weekly Strike Targets were TFs that were available all the time, but in some cases they tended to get done more often (or, like, at all...) when they were the WST. The sole fact that you knew people would be on and willing to do a specific TF on during a specific week made you plan around that. If there were events that happened only so often, it would be best to advertize when they're going to happen so people can get on and play that content.

Having an event that nobody ever knows when it will "drop" is like having a rock concert and not telling anyone the location or dates. It's a self defeating idea. The whole point of a rock concerts is that you WANT to attract as many people as possible and sell tickets, t-shirts, etc. If you take away the predictability, people will miss it because they're not on that night because they didn't know it was going to happen.

Giving players the ability to trigger an event is good in that it can be predictable. It requires the people intending to trigger the event to TELL people about that plan ahead of time, but it's still doable. Things like Hami raids and Mothership throwdowns were handled this way a lot, right? People would schedule it at a time and try to get people to show up for it, etc. Sometimes that stuff happened on the spur of the moment, but I tihnk the predictability factor is good to have.

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Redside I really liked the

Redside I really liked the unlockable contacts although I will readily admit they weren't perfect. For those who may not know or recall, these were contacts that, until very late in the game's life, did not just appear on your contact list. You had to "physically" find the contact on the map AND have met their requirements before they would give you a mission if you were in the proper level band. With everyone except Viridian the requirement was a kill badge. (Viridian required several badges and some other stuff.)

As I said however, there were some issues. I only knew about them because I read the forums so I think they overdid the "hidden" aspect.

For awhile the badge to unlock Veluta Lunata was bugged and needed you to kill so many ghosts at the fort in PO you could easily out level her before she would give you missions. (Sidekicking up beyond the chance for those ghosts to give xp was one solution to that.)

Often there was only 1 type of enemy faced throughout the arc which had it's own share of pluses and minuses. Got a badge for killing a THOUSAND Longbow? Great Job! Now as a reward... MORE Longbow! Then there was the time that I helped a friend unlock Veluta Lunata only to realize later that all those ghosts highly resisted the damage done by his Dark/Dark Corruptor. Ah well, he liked re-rolling anyway.

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kitsune9tails wrote:
kitsune9tails wrote:

Another factor in such rare events would be duration. A "spawns once a month max" event that lasts for a week would IMHO be much better than something that is only around for an hour or so.
What is the advantage being sought in making them rare? Just the feeling of 'specialness' or difficulty, or something else?

The specialness mostly, but I don't think the specialness should be seen as a weak factor. I'd the game to have some sense of mystery. People who've played for a year could watch a Youtube video and say, "WOW, I've never seen that before!".

This is mostly a reaction to Guild Wars 2. They had these awesome dragons and huge bosses that were really awesome, but then you realize... these bosses are on a one hour timer. There is nothing really special about them. I'd like to avoid that.

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One variation on rare

One variation on rare individual events would be a rare convergence of non-rare events...say, two giant monsters that just happen to cross paths and begin to interact, or an alien zone invasion that by chance begins while zombies are still pouring out of the subway tunnels from a completely unrelated event. With a little extra thought put into hostility settings, the interactions could be funny...or very hazardous, but memorable either way, if the system can handle the load. There could also be non-combat versions, such as a random building that catches fire and demands players' attention - but on this occasion it has appeared next to the port's diesel fuel tank farm...where a CNG supertanker is also docked at this time of day...

None of these involve badges or special rewards that people would regret missing, they are simply emergent experiences that are their own reward, a lot like the few times when we had enough players and leadership to stage a counteroffensive on the Rikti ships in midair.

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AJSB wrote:
AJSB wrote:

People who've played for a year could watch a Youtube video and say, "WOW, I've never seen that before!".

Then these same people look through online resources, or ask in game, to discover how they can take part in that event, only to discover that they have to happen to be online when the event takes place. Which they evidently have not managed to do in a year of playing the game.

I don't think 'special' is the word to use to describe how most people would feel in that situation.

MMO developers will never be able to produce content more quickly than most players will consume it, hence a lot of weight must be given to repeatable content - your basic grinds (dailies and/or raids for equipment, reputation, etc.). The more skilled developers can camouflage this with good story, fun missions, and providing enough variety so that logging in does not feel like the character is clocking in to work.* In my opinion a kind of lottery system, over which the players have no control, is one of the worst ways to generate longevity for (or interest in) content.



* This drove me away from WoW during the Cataclysm expansion. The Firelands dailies were awful.

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AJSB
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Scott Jackson wrote:
Scott Jackson wrote:

One variation on rare individual events would be a rare convergence of non-rare events...say, two giant monsters that just happen to cross paths and begin to interact, or an alien zone invasion that by chance begins while zombies are still pouring out of the subway tunnels from a completely unrelated event. With a little extra thought put into hostility settings, the interactions could be funny...or very hazardous, but memorable either way, if the system can handle the load. There could also be non-combat versions, such as a random building that catches fire and demands players' attention - but on this occasion it has appeared next to the port's diesel fuel tank farm...where a CNG supertanker is also docked at this time of day...
None of these involve badges or special rewards that people would regret missing, they are simply emergent experiences that are their own reward, a lot like the few times when we had enough players and leadership to stage a counteroffensive on the Rikti ships in midair.

I give you all the pluses. That's an awesome idea.

Darth Fez- Actually a lot of developers are moving in that direction with a snooze you lose kind of attitude. The easiest example is holiday events. These happen once a year, and if you don't play it you have to wait another year. A lot of games, including COH, has end of beta events that weren't re-playable. GW2 has their living story system where the open world content is changing for a period of time and then never goes back to that. Everquest Next will have a system where players can actually build the outlying cities. If you join 2 years down the line you will never experience building that city, the siege of that city from the goblin king, and the rebuilding. All of those things happen exactly once.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsX90pnruBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDq2a3zy_6M starts at minute 19. And yes, I watched 19 minutes of this to show you this is possible so please take it seriously.

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Lothic has already addressed

Lothic has already addressed seasonal events. I even quoted her remark in my first post on this thread. Nothing new there.

For reference:

Lothic wrote:

You can justify something like a once-a-year holiday event because everyone can plan for that. But a triggerable event that's on a "can only happen once a month" cooldown seems semi-pointless. The key is whether or not these rare events could be anticipated by players or not.

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If you made the big event a

If you made the big event a regular thing, once every week or two on weekends for example, you could guarantee there'd be people playing the game at that time, just for whatever reward you got from it.

I know for a fact that most of my server were on at 19:30 on sunday nights to do the mothership raid, if you give people something cool to look forward to...they'll come and play.

Radiac pointed out that predictability is a big factor, maybe there should be a balance in this case; for example, collection of circumstance for this large event to occur or just total random chance...a tiny mathematical chance of spawn.

Besides, it won't hurt the game, getting large amounts of people into a weekly event or hunt.

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AJSB wrote:
AJSB wrote:

kitsune9tails wrote:
Another factor in such rare events would be duration. A "spawns once a month max" event that lasts for a week would IMHO be much better than something that is only around for an hour or so.
What is the advantage being sought in making them rare? Just the feeling of 'specialness' or difficulty, or something else?

The specialness mostly, but I don't think the specialness should be seen as a weak factor. I'd the game to have some sense of mystery. People who've played for a year could watch a Youtube video and say, "WOW, I've never seen that before!".
This is mostly a reaction to Guild Wars 2. They had these awesome dragons and huge bosses that were really awesome, but then you realize... these bosses are on a one hour timer. There is nothing really special about them. I'd like to avoid that.

They sped up the timer on the dragons? Last time I played it was on a few hours timer. I can see as to *WHY* this happens though (to ensure that players no matter the time zone get the opportunity to experience it), but they are also staggered through the day as well, so if you really wanted to go "Big Event chaining" you could do so....

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Awes wrote:
Awes wrote:

If you made the big event a regular thing, once every week or two on weekends for example, you could guarantee there'd be people playing the game at that time, just for whatever reward you got from it.
I know for a fact that most of my server were on at 19:30 on sunday nights to do the mothership raid, if you give people something cool to look forward to...they'll come and play.
Radiac pointed out that predictability is a big factor, maybe there should be a balance in this case; for example, collection of circumstance for this large event to occur or just total random chance...a tiny mathematical chance of spawn.
Besides, it won't hurt the game, getting large amounts of people into a weekly event or hunt.

They'd have to rotate the time to avoid disenfranchising folks from one time zone or another. Or make it last for many hours.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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AJSB wrote:
AJSB wrote:

This is mostly a reaction to Guild Wars 2. They had these awesome dragons and huge bosses that were really awesome, but then you realize... these bosses are on a one hour timer. There is nothing really special about them. I'd like to avoid that.

So, the unique mechanics, crazy difficulty that required a massive amount of people to take them down, nice reward, and achievements don't make it special because the event is on a hourly timer?

I mean yes if your do run content enough it can loose some of the shine it originally had, I get it. But i don't see how making an event crazy rare is the answer for that. All it would cause is stress, frustration, and envy towards the lucky few who do get to do the event.

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AJSB wrote:
AJSB wrote:

Scott Jackson wrote:
One variation on rare individual events would be a rare convergence of non-rare events...say, two giant monsters that just happen to cross paths and begin to interact, or an alien zone invasion that by chance begins while zombies are still pouring out of the subway tunnels from a completely unrelated event. With a little extra thought put into hostility settings, the interactions could be funny...or very hazardous, but memorable either way, if the system can handle the load. There could also be non-combat versions, such as a random building that catches fire and demands players' attention - but on this occasion it has appeared next to the port's diesel fuel tank farm...where a CNG supertanker is also docked at this time of day...
None of these involve badges or special rewards that people would regret missing, they are simply emergent experiences that are their own reward, a lot like the few times when we had enough players and leadership to stage a counteroffensive on the Rikti ships in midair.

I give you all the pluses. That's an awesome idea.
Darth Fez- Actually a lot of developers are moving in that direction with a snooze you lose kind of attitude. The easiest example is holiday events. These happen once a year, and if you don't play it you have to wait another year. A lot of games, including COH, has end of beta events that weren't re-playable. GW2 has their living story system where the open world content is changing for a period of time and then never goes back to that. Everquest Next will have a system where players can actually build the outlying cities. If you join 2 years down the line you will never experience building that city, the siege of that city from the goblin king, and the rebuilding. All of those things happen exactly once.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsX90pnruBwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch... starts at minute 19. And yes, I watched 19 minutes of this to show you this is possible so please take it seriously.

If a dev of an MMO says 'u snooze u lose' to me, I'm not giving them my money. If I wanted abuse from my MMOs design team, I'd play EvE Online.

Yearly holiday events arefine because they are repeatable, plannable for, and they generally last about a month. People do not like to be told 'oh, you will never ever see this content that I saw last month, btw. Sucks 2bu' And there may be some dicks around, buyt I personally wouldn't want to be saying 'I've got/seen/done something you'll never be able to get/see/do'. I'd much rather say 'Hey, newbie, I've got this cool thing - and you can get it too! Isn't this game great?'

MrCaptainMan, Scoop Malloy, The Accelerated Man, Soundman, The Robot From Uranus, Tommy Atkins, The Dirty Promise, The Psystem, VEI8, Atomicide, Tumbleweed Jackson, Robin Copperfield, Ragtime Smith, Jacque Le Black, Tarquin Wilde...and many more.