Tous les devs de MWM sont des volontaires. Ca serait un coup de gagner des devs experimente mais je ne crois pas que les gens de Carbine Studios ont la liberte de travailler sans etre paye.

And yes, I'm too lazy to put in all the appropriate accents. :P

Darth Fez wrote:

Tous les devs de MWM sont des volontaires. Ca serait un coup de gagner des devs experimente mais je ne crois pas que les gens de Carbine Studios ont la liberte de travailler sans etre paye.

And yes, I'm too lazy to put in all the appropriate accents. :P

Google Translate wrote:

All of MWM's devs are volunteers. It would be a shot at winning experimente devs but I do not think the people at Carbine Studios have the freedom to work without being paid.

I hope they all find new jobs quickly. The game industry seems very competitive and has a lot of employee churn, so it should be something they understood could happen, and planned around.

I find it very disappointing they're closing WS; I played it in the beginning, and it was a good game, just not my style. I don't understand the business economics of MMO's very well. Is it that expensive to keep one running for the long term? There must be some significant fixed expenses. In addition to covering the original development cost and its ROI, I could see server & network costs, ongoing software licenses (especially back end things like databases and real-time comm tools), and maintenance/support being pricey if they don't scale down well. Also, the parent company may have both minimum revenue and profitability targets for them to find it worth bothering to keep a product line going.

I hope all this works better for CoT. Lower development costs, investors being in it for passion, and a systems design and business model that work for the small-scale long term as well as the intended runaway success.

That's a bit unfair on NCSoft's part. WS was losing money and didn't have the audience, because WS screwed up in the beginning. Bugs and HC Raiding with bugs to get into that Raiding not to mention a long process for that raiding.

Carbine didn't want to cater to casuals at all in the beginning either. They wanted it to be purely on Raids and 40v40 PvP.

Surprised? Not this guy.

That game was an really depressing example of why you do not cater to the hardcore/pro gamers. Hardcore/pro gamers are the minority and cannot alone sustain a game money wise or community wise no matter how much they insist otherwise (and they are always wrong usually).

Its sad to me as if they put as much stock in more features for the casual playerbase and marketed more for them then I think Wildstar would still be alive and perhaps thriving today. The game was good, it just had a really shitty launch as endgame was way too hard and ridiculous for most casual players, hell even some hardcores struggled with it.

Lothic wrote:

Sleepymoth wrote:

That game was an really depressing example of why you do not cater to the hardcore/pro gamers. Hardcore/pro gamers are the minority and cannot alone sustain a game money wise or community wise no matter how much they insist otherwise (and they are always wrong usually).

Its sad to me as if they put as much stock in more features for the casual playerbase and marketed more for them then I think Wildstar would still be alive and perhaps thriving today. The game was good, it just had a really shitty launch as endgame was way too hard and ridiculous for most casual players, hell even some hardcores struggled with it.

Sounds like the Wildstar Devs assumed that 99% of their playerbase were the type of players who'd like to get to the level cap of a game in about 3.1 minutes and then only want to play end-game raids after that. Obviously there are -some- players who like to do that and there is nothing -wrong- with playing that way either. But clearly no serious MMO can't assume their playerbase is going to skew completely in that direction.

That's why I think CoH managed to do so well over its 8.5 years history. Either by accident (or necessity) CoH effectively had ZERO end game content when it first launched. It didn't even introduce the badge system (an activity players could waste hundreds of hours on as a pseudo-endgame activity) until Issue 2. But over the years it progressively added new things to do which kept expanding the end game content smoothly as most people naturally got to that point.

Hopefully CoT will follow more in CoH's footsteps as far as that's concerned.

Yeah, pretty much every game I have seen these days barring the big AAA company games that will have a bunch of idiots flocking to their money grubbing schlock that has tried to carve out a niche with hardcore/pro gamers has failed awfully.

The players you want to keep are the casuals as they are usually the ones coming back and keeping the community and games alive. The wannabe pro elitists/hardcores tend to always go to the next new game and are an very unstable audience to try to market too as they rarely if ever are loyal (and tend to be incredibly toxic people to boot). I have only seen them be loyal in a small few cases

Part of the reason why I loved CoX so much is simply because it was one of the very few MMOs out there that was pretty casual and chill. People for the most part were pretty cool to eachother. I am really tired and bitter of the e-sports competitive obsessed gaming market these days as most of the decent to good games fail while the bad games thrive, atleast in my opinion.

I hated that most of the story-arcs were no-win situations. I'd go through all of the work of 'saving the refugees' and then Dev-Fiat would nuke them from orbit, just to prove how awful the enemy was.

Or, in training, I would have to shoot all the peons in order to score. How am I supposed to be a hero, with that kind of crap written into the game? That's why I quit.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Huckleberry wrote:

I thought there was so much to like about Wildstar. All the parts were phenomenal. I gave my feedback during the beta and subscribed until it went F2P. I hear everyone saying that they catered too much to the hard-core crowd, but I disagree. Sure, they advertised the parts of the game that did cater to the hardcore crowd, but I don't think the game was designed for them to the detriment of any others. The game was very specifically designed for casuals as well, and when you look at almost all of their promo videos, you will see that they are targeted towards that demographic.

In my opinion the biggest detractor was the fact that there was TOO MUCH to do. A typical leveling character would have a quest journal with dozens of quests in it. On top of that there were the pop up activities associated with the various paths and challenges that would appear out of no where when your character tripped them. It would get to the point that players would just follow the map markers or the glowies and click through quest text as soon as it popped up. There was very little attempt to understand what was going on by the playerbase. This overload actually kept players from gaining and enjoying the immersion that oozed out of every facet of the game. It's a shame, really, because some of the writing was quite clever.

So in my opinion, there was so much really good stuff but it was delivered through a firehose so that no one could enjoy any of it. Does that make sense? I was a constant frenetic pace.

The sum of the great parts added up to be less than the whole.

What you said makes sense.

But I think I could make the point that your main criticism ("Wildstar provided too much content to easily deal with") would be another indication that the game was -not- fundamentally causal friendly. The definition of being a "hardcore" MMO player isn't limited to only being into end-game raiding. I'd consider enjoying a "constant frenetic pace" from a game to be another kind of "hardcore" player. So in a way the game might have been too in-your-face busy and too much geared for a "different" kind of hardcore player.

Just a thought.

Yeah, I quit near the start as there wasn't enough content at endgame for casuals. I tried doing alts but I would remake my alts so much that I ended up getting tired of the early zones really quickly. Dungeons were pretty damn hard and barely anyone ran the endgame ones which was pretty saddening to me as the dungeons were still plenty of fun despite how hard it was.

I just think that there decision to go for endgame 40 man raiding was a bad one as they put so much resources in it only for it to fail hard as even the raiding was too hard for old school Vanilla WoW raiders.

The combat in itself despite being fun got a lot of complaints from more casual players at launch. It was even worse back in the beta as mobs telegraphs would hit like a truck and would come out pretty fast.

Wildstar also had the horrid luck of attracting an hatedom really quickly. People would go out of their way to spread their hate about that game for the most inane of reasons. Some would say it looked childish (I personally loved the artstyle because it reminded me of my childhood games like Jak and Daxter). Others said the telegraphs made the game braindead easy which if you actually played the game was not at all the case. If anything it actually made it harder then most MMO games on the market.

It is saddening that the game died though. It was a good game but it took some stumbles and sadly in an market that Blizzard has cornered for a decade now that was enough to kill it. I really wish there was an company that could take Blizzard down an notch as that company has gotten really rotten with corporate greed and general bullshit the past few years if you ask me.

The group I played with found the phasing system to make playing together hugely frustrating unless your entire group was perfectly synchronized on quest progress.

In a sad case of déjà vu there are apparently [url=https://massivelyop.com/2018/09/11/wildstar-fans-start-a-petition-to-urge-ncsoft-to-save-the-game/]Wildstar players who are attempting to petition/protest NCsoft[/url] to persuade them to keep the game going.

Who knows... maybe in 5 or 6 years we'll be seeing "spiritual successor" versions of Wildstar launching...

Huckleberry wrote:

You can't get the awesome outfits without doing high-level and end-game content in nearly any other game either, notably WoW; so that doesn't set Wildstar apart. Certainly not enough to be considered a meaningful cause for failure.

Those games tend to (not WoW) have costume options available in cash shops or in content that was not a 40 man raid, like WS had. Also, I just said it was one of the problems. It's end game was buggy to get attuned for raids (I was hit with the bug that I couldn't get attuned) and I was basically logging in, doing the dailies and then logging out, with no real hope in sight for getting the cool stuff.