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Why I Don't Want Market PvP

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Gangrel
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Segev wrote:
...When they notice something has gotten up to a point they'd love to sell it but don't have any of it to sell, they will spawn missions for players to go on.

That's a great solution! They could even, blatantly, ask PCs to visit a particular 'source' and collect 'wanted item x' from them. 'Defeat and Gather' may not be the most popular mission form, but it's a well-known one.
Vendors might even compete against each other in both 'goods on offer' and 'missions on offer' scales.
Be Well!
Fireheart

Of course, this would mean that the drop rate would have to be *fixed* in these missions so that X item would be guaranteed to drop (possibly at a higher rate) from the mission mobs.

If it wasn't fixed like this, then it would just be another mission giver, where the item would only stand a *chance* of giving it.

I can actually see a situation where the AH would die under a situation like this due to potential market manipulation of where items are kept deliberately scarce just to spawn the missions and the "guaranteed drop" missions are just ran consistently by the player base to get their crafting components

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Insatiable
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It's so curious that this

It's so curious that this brings passion out of people. I have played a lot of games and there are things to keep in mind when it comes to games style and its appropriate market (also can be indicators of the success/style of a game).

I think it's hard to compare markets in games that are different in styles. Many traditional MMOs have a crafting-oriented style and therefore have a market that supports that community. From what I understand, crafting professions will not exist in CoT. So, this would make the game more of a drop-style game. Also, the market SHOULD benefit the long-term player, the committed player, the paying player, etc. As soon as you remove that benefit, you risk alienating that player. A lot of the complaints I see in this thread are from players hopping in the game mid-stream and not being able to play the market like those that have been in-game since inception. I think that's reasonable and that's common in any game. That's basic economics. As with all games, there are ways to get nearly anything that's on the market, it just takes time. That was also the case with CoX. There were multiple avenues to get what every you wanted, some take more play time, some take ample currency, some take patience, some take a different play style. But, you had options. If you did not like one path - great take a different path.

As soon as you eliminate a pvp market, you institute grinding. Me personally, I despise grinding. a couple of recent drop-style games for instance - GW2 (good gear only through drops or personal crafting) = grind and Marvel Heroes (no market at all) = horrific grind. GW2 very much profited gold sellers, Marvel very much profits cash market items (development); D3 was a ridiculous mess.

Things to consider might be varying options for mission rewards - allow players to work towards differing rewards - not just xp, currency, etc.
Time limits on buy/sell options (remember, if there is no benefit to listing items - the market will become less effective and thus remove it effectiveness as an option to players)
Listing/buying fees (if these get too high, also starts minimizing benefit and thus effectiveness - can also drive up prices)
Drop rates (always a topic - when drop rates are too low, players get infuriated about a pvp-market; when too high, market gets ineffective as an option) - also item levels play in here as well - low level items tended to be higher value later on in the game (people were playing their high level characters)

I think City brought a great balance to this part of the game - the market was an option to players. The high-cost items were really only those that were rare drops. So, naturally you would pay more for those. Which is why in real life platinum>gold>silver>lead... supply and demand is driven by game mechanics. If you see prices were ever ridiculously high - you could buy right then and there because you just had to slot that purple or wait a day... Options.

Remember, those that really played the market put their time in it as well. From what I read, many were vets from the inception of the game that played it as one piece of the game. Why should they not benefit for their time investment? By the time the market entered the game (and the majority of players were happy with the market entering the game, and also eventually it crossing sides) the vet players had ample currency with which to effectively play the market. those that enjoyed it, played it. Those that didn't like it - chose the other options (which were limited at first, but more options were instituted. If all these aspects are considered early, CoT will be all the more better.

I think this is a good discussion and an important topic (clearly, there are strong opinions around it). It comes down to the mechanics of the game, the drop-style, end-game goals and paths to achieve the ultimate player. Some of this might not even be drop-based, but could be mission/task/achievement-based and thus not at all impacted by the market. There are more factors involved than just drop-rates, market mechanics, or play styles. The market should take into consideration how end-game looks and works (IMO).

"it's a long road to wisdom, but it's a short one to being ignored." The Lumineers

Brighellac
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I very much enjoyed the AH.

I very much enjoyed the AH. I did a lot of the buy recipe cheapish crafting it and then posting it.

The closest thing to abusing it I did was buying tons of performance shifter +end and selling it at like 20 mil per. I also had a buy offer at 8 mill to pick off cheap entrees onto the market. I would flip them but the larger point was to set a floor and improve my buy it now chances.

The devs will need to make their call on whether that lvl of abuse is harmful or helpful to the overall game.

I think the overall ah was good in cox.

I suggest that the enhancement transmuters should be in the game as an influence sink. I also think temp powers should be beefed up to make them a significant influence sink.

More money sinks for high lvl characters/endgame accounts would constrain inflation in the game. There may be room for a devled FED-like function

Foradain
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Not sure how a Fed would work

Not sure how a Fed would work, in game. In the real world, the Fed releases new currency into the economy temporarily via loans, with the interest on those loans providing a currency sink. In the game, new currency comes via drops and mission rewards. How would loans be made popular enough for the interest to be a significant currency sink?

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Redlynne
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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

How would loans be made popular enough for the interest to be a significant currency sink?

The convenience of being able to Buy Now vs Buy Later. Given how impatient most gamers are, there can be some pretty significant flexibility in terms of price pain vs delayed gratification.


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Gangrel
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Foradain wrote:
How would loans be made popular enough for the interest to be a significant currency sink?
The convenience of being able to Buy Now vs Buy Later. Given how impatient most gamers are, there can be some pretty significant flexibility in terms of price pain vs delayed gratification.

Even without the need of loans a buy/sell order list, with the ability to buy/sell now is also handy.

This means that the players can see what the "sell now" prices are at (they are the price of buy orders that players put up), whilst the "buy now" order people just need to know what price ranges players have set their "sell orders" at.

It helps more than you think, especially if you put in a couple of background safeguards ie: You will only ever pay the price needed to cover, and if you type in an extra digit for a "buy now" item, you wont actually over pay.

This means that it is less prone to the pricing mistakes that other games can suffer from.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Empyrean
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Slight derail, but I liked

Slight derail; I liked the AH just fine, but for immersion I'd rather have it as a background part of the game rather than it actually being present in the world and lore.

There wasn't much like this in classic comics or Superhero movies, and while it needs to exist in an MMORPG, I'd rather it not be present in the gameworld. Just keep it in the background and make it a pop-up window that you can access rather than some virtual brick-and-mortar location that doesn't really fit the genre.

That way, people can decide for themselves whether it's them buying armor upgrades like Tony Start, or the Hulk further mutating or accessing new levels of rage, or the effects of the mutagen in the last lab heist they stopped, or whatever--rather than it having to be a Superhero Auction House or even specifically Incarnate Abilities.

I'll still happily play the game if there's a "Superheromart" or a story-locked set of upgrades, but it seems a bit unnecessary and inelegant as a solution.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Gangrel
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It is interesting really,

It is interesting really, because when you get down to it, CoX broke this badly... and this was before the introduction of the AH.

Even *trading* what you could between characters in CoX was immersion breaking for me. And then there was selling of the stuff that other players could drop on you. When you get down to it, that REALLY didn't make any sense in the game world.

However, the players still came up with ways to treat how it worked for *themselves* even if went against what the game said.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

oOStaticOo
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See, I didn't have a problem

See, I didn't have a problem with the Auction House or Icon in City of Heroes. Why? Because it was a CITY of HEROES. I would expect to find shops for Super Heroes in a city that was supposed to have Super Heroes in it. It wasn't New York. It wasn't City of Average Everyday People With An Occasional Super Hero Splashed In. It was an entire city of Heroes. Makes sense to have shops for Super Heroes if it's filled with a bunch of Super Heroes.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

Gangrel
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The shops were not so bad

The shops were not so bad over this: at least they kept it tied to origin for what was sold, even though those seemed to fall by the wayside as time progressed.

But I think that shows that sometimes, just sometimes, you cannot explain everything with an ingame reason as to *HOW* it works, just that it *does* work.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

Garrilon
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While all this talk about

While all this talk about market PvP is good, personally, I never really liked the idea of PvP to begin with except as training... Too much of the Chest-Thumping about getting the better of someone else, rather than achieving something new... I think that there should be an option of some sort, if there is a market, to be able to get those rares, even soloing, by doing a certain set of missions, and earning points, and, being able to select a non-transferable recipe/salvage/costume piece/enhancer type item from a list, with even level selected... I'm not saying to make it easy, but, for those who need to or want to do a lot of soloing (carpal issues here, so had to stop raiding in EQ2 after a while because wrist got too uncomfortable/painful to sleep) can still enjoy the game, and, with it being non - transferable, it shouldn't affect the game as much, and, for those who don't wish to grind the points, the market can still be there... Also maybe use some of the ideas here for a TF type rewards system as well... Also, cosmetic type things shouldn't be rare, and probably even cheaply gotten at a npc vendor, like costume pieces not earned by a mission, non combat, just because it looks cool/fits my character concept "pets"..

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