I always loved my tanks... and brutes, the most. Scrappers were good, but Tanks and Brutes were always my first love in CoH.
I think I tried every combo at some point in the game, and there was a few powersets at the end that I really loved playing with.
For me the Shield and Willpower sets ended up been two of my primary favourites, with Super Strength and Electric Melee ending up two of my favourites. Though I have to admit I would have played any tank of brute to see how they played, having had all types, and really loved how stone played on brutes compared to tanks.
So if they had to make a choice, I think that a Shield and Willpower type set, along with the iconic super strength would be my obvious choice for powersets they "must" have, though admit they should probably have an archtype invulnerability in the game as well.
What Tanker primaries and secondaries would you all like to see. This is assuming we don't get any stretch goal classes in there either, and why?
Invul/SS is the classic so that has to be in there somewhere. The elements (Stone and Fire) will likely be popular too. Personally I liked Electric/Electric. I had and Ice/Ice but I was not fond of Defense-based sets as much as Resistance-based ones.
My first will likely be Invul/SS or some equivalent because my first toon was and the nostalgia is strong with this one.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
This is tough to quantify. The way the game is going to be set up, you'll pick the power, then pick the animation. Being super tough could be displayed in a lot of ways, from stone or metal skin, to some kind of magic aura or no animation at all. The same with all the Melee attacks. My brawling attacks may be Kung Fu animations while the next guy has a stone club or baseball bat, but we both have "Brawl" as our base power. If the question is "What animations would you like to see joined to powers", it becomes easier to answer. I'd certainly like to see the standard "Superman" animations, as well as some of the stranger "tanking" powers we see in super hero comics, manga, cartoons and movies.
I remember a while back...,
- ...there was this game called Freedom Force where the vast amount of what the power was regarding pertained to the animation of said power and how fast it would activate. Hence, very quick powers couldn't be powerful unless they cost a heap load of endurance as well and were also astoundingly expensive character point-wise. This was one of the main reasons why the Energy Manipulation power - Stun, drove me absolutely crazy. Here was a power with an outrageously long animation, cost quite a bit of endurance...and did Minor En/Sm.
- Okay, yeah...sure, it stunned - Yay, but did it have to have such a long animation? It could have been a finger jab and it would have still been relevant. If they following along those lines where the animation drastically impacts how powerful a power is...I will look forward to making a Tank, because I would intend on having lots of long 'wind up' powers. Sure, I won't be 'quick'...but my target won't take too many hits. ^_^
Something like energy aura armor set, that drained nearby enemy NPCs of HP/END and transferred it back to the tank to not just restore lost HP and end but to slightly increase damage, depending on how many enemies are around you when you popped that button ( I forgot what its called, but it did wonders),and nearby team mates. Oh and Dark melee too.
Good farming potential, I made a Dark/energy aura brute before the servers went down on Virtue. maybe you've teamed with me "Shinvega Zero" Loved that brute build, "Sap N' Trap" theme but it was amazing on massive farm areas and ok on Arch villains, mainly cause I would sap their end and HP to restore my own, + Dark melee had that button to steal strength away from nearby enemies and add it to my own for a period of time.
I would love a giant growth option. If not a whole power set then maybe a toggle ability with a buff to strength and defense. I would even accept a (small) movement or endurance penalty if needed for balance.
I can see it being a problem with indoor maps to get TOO big, but it would still be cool to see how far we could push it.
Giant growth in CO is fun but it is basically cosmetic and doesn't last very long.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
My main character needs fast-punching Energy Boxing power, to go with his Invulnerability.
Be Well!
Fireheart
The taunt aura on Willpower notwithstanding, I truly loved Willpower's mixed bag of abilities and thematic touches. Especially cackling madly while being swarmed because it made my regeneration skyrocket. I would like to see some powers akin to that, both functionally and thematically, since not every tank needs exotic effects, just a refusal to fall down.
I mentioned it in another thread but thought I'd ask here. What do y'all think about a force field tank?
Has crazy mad defense while protecting himself and gets weaker if you need to expand it to cover others in your team.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Sounds like an interesting idea, Rigel. I'm not sure how the mechanics would work out, but I can definitely see the character concepts for it.
Well, I was thinking along the lines of a personal forcefield for yourself, like the hamster ball of the bubblers we know and love, but from which you can attack and taunt etc.
Then either bubbles you cast on teammates or something akin to the big bubble that, when activated, divides your attention or whatever you want to imagine to happen that would give some protection to your teammates. Like phalanx fighting did in shield defense. The amount you lose might scale to the number of teammates you're protecting in addition to yourself.
Heck, we don't HAVE to have a penalty for protecting others, just something I was thinking about.
There can also be all kinds of other force-based abilities to taunt and attack; either from range or melee. LIke wrapping your fists in force fields to give a super punch.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
On the MWM forums Joe99 was writting up ideas for potential Defence Set powersets.
This included Evasion (avoid the attack), Resistance (take the hits but ignore most damage), Protection (a new idea based around Power Armor where smaller attacks bounce off [got really detailed to ensure it didnt ignore ALL base attacks etc] and Absorb (2nd set of "HP" that get whitled away before your HP get affected).
The idea for Force Fields was linked to Energy Aura with Absorb as the main reason for staying alive. Your EA Shield takes the hits and becomes weaker the more hits it takes. With no hits it regens its value.
If you want to have a look at some ideas (these are not approved/authorised/etc by the Devs but rather player ideas) you can see them and the discussions here:
http://missingworldsmedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1138
I have PMed Joe99 to see if he is going to move the entire thread to these forums but haven't heard back (he does have a personal life after all :))
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Armors:
Electric Armor
Willpower
Shield Defense
Fiery Aura
Melee:
Titan Weapon
Electric Melee
Super Strength
Fiery Melee
If these are available at launch I will pay you 15 bucks a month forever.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Evasion power like set that isnt soley based on gambling. Like something like at least guaranteed to dodge every other *determined amount of attack* that gets better with level and or enhancements. With the gambling portion being icing on the cake. Instead of having days of "Man these mob are using loaded dice. They havent rolled above 5 in the past 8 attacks." Or evasion like powers being all but off limits to people who dont have a rabbit foot tucked in their pocket.
Evasion should be viable at low levels and higher levels.
COX version looked fun and if a person is lucky, they could withstand anything while collecting multiple purple drops per mission. Lucky bugger.
But in the hands of a person who luck ran out or never had any, it was no better than playing a blaster defense wise.
Seeing as my main in CoX was an Invulnerability tank, I'd like to see Invuln as an available defense set from the start. By the same token, Dark Armor was extremely fun, with proper slotting... although I think a few good revisions could be done to improve it. the experience leveling with DA wasn't fantastic. Finally, Regeneration never quite made it to tanks... and I would Love to that as an option!
EDIT:
Regardless of what's available first... I want to have the ability to layer my defenses. One of the things I loved was with IOs and pool/epic/patron powers it was possible to add resistance, defense, healing and even status protection to various builds, among other things. I've never been one to rely strictly on one form of mitigation.
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D. A. Cross
CEO of Phoenix Rising
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Gonna come out with an unusual one here, but I'd really like to see Super Reflexes.
Why? Ducking and dodging out of harm's way while continuing to draw attention to yourself seems to me like it's the most logical way for 'Natural' Stalwarts to compete in terms of damage absorption/mitigation with their superpowered brethren, and I'm a sucker for the scrappy underdog. :D
"You might call them soft, because they’re very reluctant to kill, and they might agree with you, but they’re soft the way the ocean is soft, and, well; ask any sea captain how harmless and puny the ocean can be."
Have to put my votes behind Growth and Rock Armor.
Long live Cliff-Side!
Crowd Control Enthusiast
Dark Armor, just liked the maneuverability and the stealth.
Know thy users, for they are not you.
"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
[color=#FF0000]Coding Lead[/color]
a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm
This: I only rolled a Regen Scrapper because Willpower didn't exist at the time, and I only rolled a Scrapper because Tanking didn't have Willpower OR Regen at the time. Well, actually, I wanted Willpower as an offensive set with Regen defensive, So a Regen/WP tank or WP/Regen scrapper type character would be my ideal. WP/WP would also work.
OR
A well-implemented Dark set; one thing I HATED about Dark Defense was that my character became hidden under the toggles, so I never rolled one. While the Offensive set had little visual impact aside from the PBAoEs and the tentacles. Your plan for decoupling visuals from mechanics should solve those problems, I hope, but another concern then ofc would be the end drain. I understood the principle of managing your toggles well, rather than just running everything, but even when a skilled Dark Defense character did that they still had to have Stam to avoid completely dropping all toggles (which was ALL they had) in anything but really short fights.
OR
Something like the PBs/WSs with their Dwarf-forms; the idea of transforming into another form to enable ability sets is cool, effectively allowing you to 'become' a tank or whatever. Could be you unlock different versions of the powerset as you level them up, eventually have a forms-based set that enables you to fulfil multiple roles; maybe something for expansion Y :)
[edit] The ides of sets being exclusive to an archetype or classifications as you call them even when it made sense from a lore-perspective that they belong to more than one was something I never understood. The effectiveness of abilities should differ, of course, and perhaps even the abilities available should be different between classifications, but if it makes sense for Gladiators to have the same sets as Bulwarks, then they should. I don't want to be tied to a specific classification because it has the primary that I want, i.e. be forced to roll a 'scrapper' instead of a 'tanker' or vice versa.
[b]TL;DR[/b] Regen rocks. Willpower rocks. Dark would be good if reworked. Morphing/Growth would be cool but I'd expect it in a later build.
I would very much like to be able to roll a Defense primary power set and have access to ALL defense sets in the game, and for it to be more effective for me than for any other classification, since it's my primary.
of Phoenix Rising
Am I
I'd like to see at least one of each defense and resistance sets. For defense my overall favorite was shield defense. I had a 50 Shield/Fire tank that was amazing.
For defense based it's hard to say. Stone was a great set (albeit movement sucked), but I think my favorite was probably ice/ice. Tough to say though since I usually played defense based sets.
Personal unofficial opinion, I'd love to see stone, but then my first CoH 50 was my signature toon (shown in my avatar) who was stone/axe so I'm biased..
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team and Forum Moderator[/color]
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Just so long as Stone doesn't turn you into a Devouring Earth model that EVERYONE uses ...
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Bob the boulder my brute would never have come into existence without that model :) Devouring earth, who are they ? won't be in this game, NCSoft wouldn't like it.
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team and Forum Moderator[/color]
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yup.
Im looking forward to seeing how the Protection-based defensive sets end up working.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Well, a lot depends on how the system is setup in CoT.
Example...loved Willpower. It was defense/regen w/ psi resist! Fit my concept perfectly! However, looking at the mechanics and the difference between positional and typed defense...while I could RP type defense however I wanted (in fact I built for softcapped defenses...softcapped all except Psi defense was a bit under)...would've preferred to have the positional defense type, sense positional, gameplay wise, meant dodging, while typed defense meant deflecting.
In use, not to much of a difference really, but you look at it AND YOU KNOW! YOU KNOW! :p
So I'd like to see what's basically Positional Defense Willpower, when one thinks of CoH anyways.
Willpower above all else, if that set stayed essentially the same i would pay and play this game forever, the balance was just insane and that's what i love in my chars
That and either super strength or fire
Tai Chi or drunken kung fu for both attack and defense ....I know its not really going to happen because it would be a nightmare to animate but I always thought the idea of seeing your character actually interact with the foe would look so good.
I gotta go with my all time favorites of super strength and invulnerability. Shields maybe. I would also love growth as well.
I want to see that thing that Sebastian Shaw did.. the more you take the more you dish out.
AKA the kind of tank that crowd controllers love to take down.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I myself loved Fire/Fire at least in the later issues.
I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right to not agree.
Always wanted to see a Mind Control Tanker myself ...
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Defense/Control Stalwart is definitely something I want to play... As long as that doesn't 'double-gimp' the DPS.
Density/Gravity Control should be Fun!
Be Well!
Fireheart
Time Manipulation Tank ... oooh, me likey ...
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Considering that they had a [i]Psionic Assault[/i] AND a [i]Psychic Manipulation[/i] powerset in CoX, then I'd imagine that we should get something like that in CoT for Bastions and Centurions. They also had this nifty [i]Telekinetic Melee[/i] planned for CoX before shutdown, so seeing a mental powerset for Bulwarks is also a high possibility.
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Tk melee would more of an animation theme applied to a melee set than it would need to be a mechanical function of a set.
That combo would certainly not rank high in the dps department. One of the major trade offs of stronger control functions is strong damage.
To make tuis combo work we would have to make a lot of changes to the control set to the point it wouldn't resemble other control sets. Which is where the Offensive Manipulation sets come in. It may not be a "pure control set" but these sets will provide that mixture of offense, self buffs, debuffs, or controls.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Let me clarify. Elsewhere, I posted:
So, perhaps not 'all of the powers' of a Controller, but a sub-set redesigned to function as a 'Secondary Powerset'? Or, perhaps what I'm really thinking about is a Melee powerset that is inspired by the Control powersets? A 'ranged melee' powerset?
I can visualize what I mean and it's Not about Immobilizes and Holds, but more about manipulating the enemy. Disorienting them. Making it difficult for them to attack anyone but the Stalwart.
Be Well!
Fireheart
it's basically how Citenik works...absorbs kinetic energy and converts it to physical strength. the more he absorbs the more he can dish out. I simulated this in COH via the brute. :) I would assume, given the info provided thus far we will be able to do something similar in CoH.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
ok...that sounds kinda fun....wormholing yourself and a buncha baddies....makes me laugh...I wanna try it! hehe
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
*snip*
If the major focus of a set is control based, it would still end up not performing well in cases where DPS so far has a metric is concened. Creating a ranged attack set that both yeilds DPS and strong Control capability and paring it with a primary set focused on strong self protections would most likely result in some serious issues in several areas of gameplay.
Now there are a couple of possibilites that could happen with our current schema.
With animation customization, melee attacks could be animated to use "gavity" visual effects. Let's say there is a Super Strength attack with a knockdown component, instead of an overhead fisted hammer strike, there is a "make a fist and pull it down" while the target is snagged by the gravity fx and smashed down.
Should a player desire to play a Stalwart and want to not only custoimze attacks thusly, but also want more control focused powers, take a Control Tertiary. This yields Strong Protection, decent DPS, and some controls.
Another possibility, make it the other way around, make a Control / Assault, customize anitimations as desired, and take a Protection Tertiary. Strong controls, decent DPS, some protection.
Or if the desire is less to have less DPS (but still have some to rely on)
Control / Support with an Offense (ranged or Melee or maybe both!) tertieries.
Strong Controls, Decent Protections, low DPS.
Now in the example provided, nothing poignantly stipulates the necessity of the controlling caster being required to also carry strong self protections in order to function. From just the way it reads, it describes a Control Primary and has nothing to do with the affected targets focusing on attacking the caster.
To which, the desire to have an affect on the targets in order that they're forced to attack the Stalwart is a function of one of the Mastery sets they have access to.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I hate the golden trinity: tank, DPS, healer. Really, deeply, and profoundly. However, I cannot see the utility in either a controller with high defense or a tank with effective controls. Sorry, but the image of either situation simply will not gel.
Strategically, in a game, there are three approaches to victory: full-on damage, impenetrable defense, endless regeneration (or healing, same difference from a strategic standpoint).
A player character must be able to engage a computer-controlled enemy in a fashion that both requires careful thinking by the player and a certainty of victory over the game. If neither of these is true, a player is better off playing Chess. This is not a trivial dichotomy. The player must be both strongly challenged and confident of victory.
I, myself, audience of one, prefer to play a game where I can choose freely between the three core strategies along with a dozen or so lesser strategies. I do NOT want a computer-controlled enemy to put me in a situation where victory is impossible. Any powerset I have the option of applying, must also be available to computer-controlled enemy NPCs, but not to the extent that a computer-controlled enemy can easily overpower and defeat my character.. An even or slightly lesser powered version is okay. A strong version that requires a fixed, hard to discover tactical path to success is not. It is okay for an NPC enemy to disorient me, knock me down, paralyze me, or put me to sleep, but only if I can be realistically assured of eventually breaking free and achieving victory.
I abhor the golden trinity, but even I can see that giving a powerful control set to a tank (defense-based strategic player) or giving powerful defense to a Controller (NPC disabling with damage over time) invalidates their strategy completely.
Therefore, I can support minor increases in defense for Controllers, but giving control powers to tanks is, for me, a bridge too far.
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Hear here. All forms of crowd control get out of whack (and eventually nerfed) if not contained within its own class.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
That's understood. My main points were:
Melee/Close Range
'Secondary Set' Performance in regards to DPS
No 'Hard' Controls
So I'm looking at a full set of Knocks in this case. Knock up, knock down, knock together, if some ranged is possible, then a knock 'into' the caster (yank the target close and punch them in the nose). I used to do that with TP Foe all the time, calling it 'Tanker Snipe'. A slightly re-worked Wormhole and Singularity.
A classic 'Controller' was mainly focused on keeping the enemy Away from their squishy-selves, in my experience. In this case, though, we're talking about a Tanker-type, a Stalwart who wants to 'keep their enemies Closer'. Meanwhile, they're applying the classic 'Tanker' control effects of knock and stun/disorient, along with taunt.
Now, a difficulty I do see would be in adapting other Control sets to the playstyle. Fire Control did have 'Hot Feet' for a personal-range effect and Earth Control had Quicksand, but the other attacks were not about moving the enemy around. Mind Control had Levitate and Telekinesis... hmm. Illusion Control had Phantom Army, which an 'Illusion Stalwart' could lead into battle...
Nuts, it really IS looking a lot like a Tertiary set. (mumble-mumble) Super Strength (mumble) 'Caster' animations (mumble-hmmm)... The trick would be in getting the specific desired 'Controller' powers in a Tertiary... and wouldn't they be even further 'nerfed' by being one?
Be Well!
Fireheart
As long as this doesnt mean a Light Weight boxer can defeat a Heavy Weight one, even if the light weight is using a slightly better strategy. I'm still betting on the Heavy weight boxer.
Ah yes, regarding that... Wouldn't a high-defense controller or a tank with controls fall into the [i]"impenetrable defense"[/i] category? I mean, the controls would prevent the enemy from harming you and the defense would soak up any damage they do manage to dish out, so as an archetype it would be surprisingly viable.
Well fortunately, since pretty much every enemy is going to be a lesser equivalent of a hero's powers, (sans archvillains and maybe also elite bosses or whatever) it's still reasonable to assume you've got a chance if they wind up as a control/tank enemy. If you fear the controls may be too OP for such a design, (or UP, contrarily speaking) then tweaking the magnitude and duration of controls to a certain percentage for that control/tank archetype should balance it out. Alternatively, lowering the defenses provided to control/tank characters is also a viable option- possibly a little bit of both since that style would practically be multiclassing.
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What was the original question oh yeah tank sets we want to see at launch.
Fire/super strength. Burn and foot stomp ftw.
Fire/ice. Burn and ice patch
And the invul/fire
Those were the main ones I played with but I'm sure I'll try more when this game finally comes out.
Isn't that the purpose of being a "brick" type?
Dictionary definition for ... [url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invulnerable]Invulnerable[/url]:
[list][*]Incapable of being wounded, injured, or harmed
[*]Immune to or proof against attack[/list]
Considering that "Invulnerability" is one of the stock and standard types of protection schemes, perhaps your complaint is slightly misplaced?
Tanker [url=http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/powerset.php?id=Tanker_Defense.Invulnerability]Invulnerability[/url] Powerset (for reference).
Now, we can quibble all you want about the DEGREE of success various options and strategies offer, but you shouldn't be objecting that a powerset is successful AT ALL (since that way lies madness).
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I was always fondest of the Willpower/Super strength combo. I loved my tanks.
Ah, well, I was referring to [i]strategies,[/i] not powers. Obviously every defense powerset ever made is designed specifically to make one much less susceptible to landing in hospitals, although control powersets accomplished this in much the same way as [i]Energy Aura[/i] did by never letting the enemy hit your toon. It's all a bunch of protection schemes, TBH.
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I'd like to see something that works on parasitic abilities. Think in terms of willpowers boost to regen amidst a group except this one lowers the strength of a foe while boosting yours. Its fairly easy to think of power theft type characters. Heck forget just tanking powers...would love to see this across the board.
I'd really like to see Willpower, Invulnerability, Shield and a better executed Kinetic or Energy Shield set. I was really curious about the last powerset COX was to release, involving the absorbtion of damage in addition to Defense and Resistence. But alas it was never officially released...
I'd rather see them focus on power sets that is more unique than the usual elemental this and that. Super Strength, Willpower, Invulnerability, Bio-Armor for starters. Then put in some unique stuff like
Transformation/Giant Growth/Body Armor Hardening
Berserker induced power set: Wolverine and Hulk like. When he goes berserk induces all sorts of powers.
A transformation more closer to lycanthropy, half human/half animal or like feral characteristics. Maybe just have bull horns and a tiger's arm could go from pseudo transformations to full body transformations.
Wrestling/Grappling
A magical brute type that can cause cosmic destruction and reality bending effects from his magic powered super strength like Juggernaut.
Rubber/Bouncy Brute: Like Luffy from One Piece, Blob, Mr. Fantastic, Plastic Man kind of powers.
Point Blank Area of effect
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I’ve always wanted an intangiability set.
Sure you can put a bullet through me, but I’m only partially there. No defense per se but solid resistances and resistance to de buffs.
With IOs I was able to do this with electrical armor. eventually I got more or less what I wanted. With the right build you could cap s/l, fire, cold, energy, and be very solid on psi and not as bad as you should be vs negative.
Debuff resists were top notch, and when it failed (which took some doing) it did so very gracefully, with plenty of warning and time to react.
No matter how I tried though, I never got the look quite right.
Visually, my energy aura brutes were closer, but they weren’t quite right mechanically.
I’m hopeful that there may be an intangiability resist set, or any general resist set that can be made to work well with the right visuals which, I understand, will be quite tunable
Quite tunable is a severe understatement, they are completely separating visuals from mechanics. The only restrictions are the general classifications like melee/ranged/self-only, Circular AoE/cone/single-target, persistent effect or not, and so on.
As for "intangible resist" they won't have that specifically but they will have high resist sets that would most likely fill your needs.
As long as there is some kind of translucent or transparent effect you can associate with a power then you can slap that on a resistance tanking set and bam, you've got your intangibility character.
You could do it as an aura graphical look as well perhaps? Although perhaps the reverse would work better as an aura, being protected by some kind of barrier rather than fading away. Perhaps that isn't ideal for intangibility.
Perhaps an "aura" could be made that cuts opacity in half, and then tie the aura to taking a hit?
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A blur effect on an aura could work too. A blur effect that is on the character itself would work more for intangibility or speed aesthetics, while a blur that is a little farther away as an aura could work for force fields or teleportation stuff.
With luck the pure res sets will have higher debuff and mez resists to compensate for the extra nastiness that will hit
With luck there will be enough control over the visuals to make a go of it
Check the Power Set examples under the Character tab.
I would also reocmmend reading the update on power set design.
But for protections you have Evasion, Defense, Subtraction, and Resistance.
Evasion makes it harder for you to be hit.
Defense reduces either damage, debuffs, or control effects by a percentage based on the style of defense (Melee, ranged, AoE).
Subtraction reduces a flat amount of damage.
Resistance reduces everything by a percentage based on the Resistance Type.
On the buff side of Protections you have increased Regen, healing, and max health.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I had a quick look and didn’t see anything that fits. Ah well. Neither energy nor electric were there to start with either.
Keep in mind the name of the set doesn't matter since you can make it look like anything you want. So any kind of tank set with defense, subtraction, or resistance looks like it would work well for your concept. You just need to attach a look to it that fits your theme.
That's because those are aesthetic choices. You should read-up on the aesthetic decoupling that CoT is implementing.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Yes, this. Also don’t expect us to recreate every power set mechanics from the old game. There may be similarities with some sets, but with our own twists. We will also have more unique sets all our own.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Tease!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
If you look at some of our launch sets they are fairly unique. Gravity with its Gravity Well mechanic, Lethality can pierce protections, Strategy is its own set that was inspired by Leadership and ramped up to be very unique from the old game.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I’ve been trying to wrap my head around ways to capture characters I couldn’t quite make right in COH but might be much more viable in COT. At least it is looking like I may get much closer to my imagined concepts. Just depends on what aesthetics are available to choose from for different power types. This is where many of my concepts fell flat in COH.
But for now, we’re off to see the Chargen the wonderful Chargen of COT. Because, because, because, because... Because of the wonderful things it does!
Colors, animations, emanation points, oh my!
Of course I’ve got a bunch of ideas bouncing around my head about basic body builds from the Chargen video, so... very looking forward to it!
"A sad spectacle. If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery and folly. If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space." ~ Thomas Carlyle
Oh I understand, but at present there are no pure resistance sets noted. I can’t speak to debuff resistance as I just don’t know enough about how it functions
It does seem very likely I can get the visuals I want on wahatever fits best though, which sounds excellent
Heh... that would be a most unreasonable thing to expect...
Not sure how you define "pure" in this regard but no protection set in CoH used purely a single aspect/stat for their survivability. Even Electric Armor had a self heal and regen buff.
Sure the example powers for CoT's protection sets looks to be make them more mixed than what some were in CoH but we can't full judge since we don't have all of the powers from each set. It also seems that some protection stats in CoT are "wider" in their protection than what they were in CoH.
Protection Sets are designed to be layered, having at least 2-3 protections and then buff utilities.
Defense is like resistance to the style of an attack. Having Melee Defense to either Damage, Debuffs, or Controls reduces those effects by a percentage if they are delivered with a melee attack.
Resistance reduces all effects of the same type.
Example: your character has 10% Melee Defense to Damage and 25% Resistance to Physical Damage.
A melee physical attack of 20 damage is delivered.
Melee Defense reduces the damage to 18. Physical Resistwnce reduces it to 13.5 or 14 (rounding up).
The combined result is similar to having 30% Resitsnce in this case.
If the attack had another effect, say a Defense Debuff also types Physical, the character’s Defense being against Melee Damage would not take effect. But the Resistance would apply.
You can think of Defense two ways: I’m so tough the attack glanced off me only doing partial effect, or I dodged but only enough to take a glancing shot.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Are similar effects from different powers/sources but changing the same protection type going to have a multiplicative effect or additive? It seems to be the former from your post Tannim, but I wasn't sure because it was describing two different kinds of protection.
I’m not certain what you mean but I think you’re referring to buffs of the same effect, such as stacking say, Physical Resistance.
In that case it is neither. If you read the update on Power Set design Imention a term we call Output.
Output is a value we get from our internal Power Designer system. Every effect in the game has an Output channel.
The Outout channel is a conversion formula that takes the Outout and gives the in game value.
When multiple effects of the same Outout channel are stacked, the add their Outouts together.
If you have a Protection Primary and have say a Power with 3 Outout in Resistance it gives 6% Resistance. If the power was typed Physicsl h it is Physical Resitance.
Say a buff comes in for another 3 Output if Physical Resistance.
Instead of 6% + 6%
You have 3+3 = 6 Output which gives 10% Resistance.
This is different than layered Protections of different effects from my earlier example.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That is exactly what I meant, thank you! Interesting, so it is handled internally with some dimishing returns to balance out how effective it is to increase one type of defensive stat (the higher a resistance gets, the more valuable every point of that resistance becomes). Very smart way to do that, though it may lead to difficulties communicating to the player exactly what benefits different powers will actually give them. Decent tooltip documentation and easy respecs should solve that learning curve problem though, not a big deal. That being said, while most games today offer easy respecs for players that want to tweak their characters, many dev teams and especially new dev teams struggle with tooltips in particular and communicating information to the player in general. The less obvious and intuitive mechanics are to the player the more important that communication becomes.
Many games have learned to mitigate this in an additional way, even ones that have similar systems to the output channel described here. Blizzard games like WoW (at least the modern version of it, it wasn't this way at launch) and Diablo 3 have "power" stats for things normally expressed as a percentage, like critical chance and dodging and resistances. Players can easily see how much "power" (essentially identical to the output used above) they can get from any given source on the tooltip for that source (item or ability usually). They can also open their character sheet for a breakdown of all their relevant stats and see not only what their "power rating" is for each statistic, but also what percentage that actually translates to. This also allows games to give more illusion of growth as you can scale that power based on a player's level if the developers so choose, so your newbie sword can give 1 crit power and that might give a big boost at level 1, but a level 50 sword can give 500 crit power and end up giving the same percent to crit for that level. That is something that may or may not be desireable for a game like CoT, it depends on whether devs want players to continually upgrade their gear. CoX did this by making loot less effective or outright useless the farther it was from the player's level, which had a similar result.
Hmmmn... so 3 outputs 6% and 6 outputs 10%....
I don’t suppose... I could have one or two more data points?
Maybe... something around values to output 25 % and 45%?
23 Op for 25%
60 Op for 45%
It is an asymptote formula and those values are for Primary Protections. They have a modifier to reduce the conversion for Secondary and another for if the Achetype doesn’t have a Protection Set.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Thanks for the numbers!