I know we'll have a lot of different vampires because of players
and that is totally cool.
there should be a lot of different kinds to make a lot of different people happy.
Me, I like the classic Bella Lugosi type vampires.
And I'm hoping to see them prominently featured in the game
complete with vulnerabilities to Holy objects and sunlight.
Of course this raises a few questions?
can players end up becoming vampires as part of a mission or major storyline?
of course if they can there would have to be a cure,
but what if some players wanted to stay vampires?
Will you be firebombed over and over and over again if vampires sparkle?
the answer to that one is yes.
Crazy Harry the muppet is on my payroll.
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IMHO, [i]anything[/i] players come up with as their own background is going to be better than something that's in the game engine. I'd be really surprised if there ever was a "vampire" or "werewolf" or whatever track for character specification like there is in, say, Elder Scrolls Online.
That said, vampire/werewolf/whatever [i]costume[/i] sets will be awesome.
And yes, if your vamp sparkles, I reserve the right to order extra garlic on all our pizzas.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
All of them! I am a big fan of how the dresden files incorporates different regions' vampire legends into different types of vampire.
Mmmmmm. Pizza.
[img]http://img.sndimg.com/food/image/upload/w_555,h_416,c_fit,fl_progressive,q_95/v1/img/recipes/29/27/00/picewMRLe.jpg[/img]
What i haven't had in a long time is Chicken Caeser Salad Pizza. :(
I'd rather see a lore specific vampire mythos to CoT. Leave the crappy, break away from the source material vampires to the PC. I don't care if CoT's vampires sparkle, I'd just like to see set lore on some of CoT's supernatual element like vampires, werewolves, fae...etc
What kind of vampires will we have? Staked.
As a rule for this type of game, i'd rather not have vampirism/lycanthrope/zombification be something that can be afflicted on the player a la Skyrim, especially since the diversity of IC backgrounds would mean that the cure or disease would be able to affect non-mortal, inorganic characters. An unfounded fear, since there's zero chance of it happening, but regardless.
As for Vampires themselves, I don't really know. I liked the Nosferatu soldiers of the Council and 5th Column because, as vampires, they were infact monsters. They weren't super-sexy immortals who were [i]reeeeaaally[/i] stretching the definition of the word Curse, but instead were hideous creatures created via a failed experiment. Did it make them 'true' vampires? I don't really know, but as far as a substitute goes, I can't say I was disappointed.
As the majority have said, many will have their own interpretations on what a Vampire is, whether it's the Bram Stoker take, the Twilight Take or if/when the Masquerade finds its way to Titan City.
What I will say, though, is that, whatever decision the devs come to I would prefer it if they were to follow the same kind of writing rule as the Inverse Ninja Equation. More often than not, Vampires are typically seen as either being on the level of humans or as powerful as demigods. Siring a vampire is also potentially complicated, requiring a ritual or as simple and sometimes accidental as a single bite.Should vampires be a thing in this setting, I would like it so that the more of them they are, the weaker the supposed boon the curse grants. I don't mind vampires being as powerful and as horrifying as Alucard, but Alucard had the added pleasure of not only being one of few, but also being a special case even among his own kind.
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
Mmmmmm. Steak.
[i]* waves at Izzy.[/i]
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Why force a limitation into the lore?
Be Well!
Fireheart
It's not really a limitation, though, unless they write it such that these NPC vampires were the [i]only[/i] vampires. I, for one, am looking forward to the occasional vampire or werewolf that hails from [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_in_the_Vampire_Bund]Mina Tepes' Bund[/url] over in Japan.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
What makes vampires?
When a [b]Fatal Femme[/b] or a [b]Lady Killer[/b] loves someone very much ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I'd expect vamp mythology in this game to be similar to the mythology in blade because he's a vampire super hero in the marvel universe. As for other monsters and demons I'd want the stories to be something along the lines of Spawn or Ghost Rider. But as long as the stories are good and the mythology stays consistent over the course of the game I'll be happy with whatever the devs decide to do.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMcQdRLgVpMwXi_3yTCN5iA/videos
As I said in the OP I fully expect that there will be many kinds of vampires
since players can make whatever they want to call a vampire.
So whatever the devs decide to make official, wont impose any limits on anyone
but I think it would be a good idea to have one type worked into the lore
and for the official type to be used most in the official content
because that will give the game a consistent feel
I'm also saying I'm partial to the Bela Lugosi type Vampire
As for vampirism being spread, in the classic form, people only become vampires if killed by vampires.
This meant that if the vampire just drank some blood but didn't kill you or killed you by some means other than drinking your blood you wouldn't come back as a vampire. And if he killed you by drinking your blood and didn't want to make another vampire he could always cut off your head or ram a stake through your heart before you had a chance to rise.
Ann Rice created the idea, of people drinking the vampire's blood to be turned, and I don't care for that.
Lycanthropy on the other hand can be spread by a simple wounding
Zombies (the movie type) generally inflict a slow death with their bite and you become a zombie when you die.
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It's not a limitation. It'd be a reference point of lore, which players will ignore, just like they always have, but for RPers who like to stick to lore, they have the reference.
As for the type I'd go with...close to the WoD vampires. They'd likely lack the masquerade, hide in the shadows when it comes to who they really are, maybe have a bit of resistance to sunlight (maybe stronger at night hours, weaker but doesnt have to be human weak during the day...which would likely keep them to wanting to sleep during the day) with varied powers from vampire to vampire.
This allows the players to pick any powerset and still go about the game saying "I'm one of them!" but also have a reason they're not siring left and right (limits food supply and brings attention to them).
I quite liked it that sometimes a council member would turn into a werewolf when he was wounded. If we do get vampires and werewolves I would really love to see that (very rarely, so it will remain something special) some seemingly normal minion turns out to be one and changes during the fight. Just to show that everyone could be one of ...them.
Also I would prefer them being rather tough and strong in the case of werewolves and fast and deceptive in case of vampires. I think those should be some of the more dangerous foes... or allies.
And finally, I hope the werewolves will look... well wolfish. The classical werewolf just transformed into a wolf, that would be my absolute favorite. I could be a very big wolf though, to look more menacing. The second favorite would be the modern Hollywood werewolf like a WoW Worgen (with tail if possible). And I absolutely dislike the 'mostly human with a bit more facial hair and some fangs and pointed ears'- variant.
As for vampires, I would like them to look normal (if not strangely beautiful and cold) for the most time and only reveal their true form when threatened. And I think their true form should be horrific. I just like to view them as monsters who can disguise themselves as humans, that what makes them scary to me.
But my point is that the Players can and will write a million different were/vamp-stories, so why pick one particular mythology to enshrine in the canon? I mean, yes, I DO have a character who requires some villainous military faction to be 'making monsters' like the Council did... However, I could just invent that myself and not force the Devs to create one for me. Or, I could use the old Council and have my character be one of the 'saved' who gated to a new reality, when the old one was destroyed.
When the Players will exert such creativity, there's no need for the Devs to use their own critical assets to make such things - Unless they've already written it into the existing lore.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Because saying "this is how it is in this setting" makes for a better setting than "well in the case of the supernatural myths out there, anything goes because we know there's RPers out there who will say we're holding them back regardless of anything."
By the idea that they shouldn't have their own canon vampire mythology, one could say "Why have a PD in CoT? It limits players into think they have to follow laws or think they should just join with them to be a hero or whatever."
I'm just asking about something that I'm sure the devs have already given some thought to.
I'll be really surprised if they haven't.
As for why they should enshrine one type as cannon; because I bet they want to. It's fun for them and fun for us, and doesn't impose any limits on our ability to make different vampires that we like.
Picking a particular type and making it the most common will set a tone for the game and let us know which ones are more exotic because they're Not the main type.
I'm just curious.
Does Dracula exist in the COT universe?
What type of vampire was he?
as far as I'm concerned that's the biggest deal
but I'd also like to know what kind of vampires my vampire hunter character will be facing.
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[url=http://www.imdb.com/find?ref_=nv_sr_fn&q=dracula&s=all]Internet Movie Database[/url] says yes, Dracula "exists" in the City of Titans world.
As for whether that means that "Dracula" is anything more than FICTION in the City of Titans, however, is a very different question. To be honest, I'd rather leave such a question for a post-Launch content expansion, simply because of the amount of Lore involved.
They mostly come at night. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B436avtEXzs]Mostly[/url] ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I think some vampire lore in the game is good because some people will use it, some people will ignore it, and some people will do their own special vampire lore to stand out. But, based on the lore philosophy of the devs, I don't think there's any way it could LIMIT them.
But I'm not a fan of sparklies:
[img]http://lolsnaps.com/upload_pic/WhenBladeMeetsTwilight-35230.jpg[/img]
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I think it would be nice to have NPC werewolves and vampires. That way you have something you can work with in your background story if you want to. Like Paladin, who wants to play a vampire hunter. That would be much more legit, if there are vampires around and you do not have to invent them in your background story first.
The lore however should not be too restrictive, meaning it should be written in a way that allows players to invent their own kind of vampires and werewolves if their concept demands for that.
My point exactly--just no NPC sparklies :P.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Here is something I did with vampires in my game:
No matter how it's destroyed a vampire can always come back
if someone gets whatever is left of the body (even if it's just ashes) and puts fresh blood on it.
This works well for recurring villains like Dracula
Dracula is Famous and he's a magnet for the kind of sick freak that would do something like that.
One of my players asked, if I separate the ashes into 5 piles can I make 5 Draculas?
No you might be able to bring him back 5 times, but there can only be one Dracula.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Ok, I have to ask...
What about complete atomic disintegration, such as by antimatter. Till there're not even molecules or atoms left, but just freed particles flying around at reletavistic speeds.
I know, I know. But the nerd in me couldn't resist.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Nothing in this world lasts forever
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I could see them having some vampire and werewolf and zombie factions in the game (maybe all in some spooky are like Croatoa or Dark Astoria before the revamp). You could even have vampire criminals and GOOD vampire heroes who only suck the blood of like livestock or something.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I've personally never been a fan of the "I'm a vampire, but that doesn't make me a bad person" angle, cause, well, traditionally, vampires aren't people at all any more. The most common folkloric tradition is that they are daemon (and in later Christian traditions "demon")-possessed corpses. Yes, there are other traditions, but that is the most ancient and generally the most common in world folklore. Until Hollywood got involved.
And of course then there are the crazy freak exceptions like Blade who's only half (or, in the actual comics, just has vampire-like powers from his mother having been bitten during childbirth and later his being bitten by Morbius the pseudo-vampire). Or Angel who was a vampire cursed by a gypsy to his soul taken from hell and jammed back into his body to feel the guilt of all of the horrible things he'd done.
Being freak exceptions in some way, like all Superheroes, is a big part of what makes them special. But to me those freak exceptions are much less fun in a world where just any vampire can go to rehab and, with a little work and reality-TV inner turmoil, become a contributing member of society who just happens to have fangs, a goth look, and attitude, and "the dark gift".
Obviously a pet peeve of mine. But just one opinion.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
No just Your opinion.
I feel the same way.
Always have.
That's why I'd play a vampire hunter.
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There have been a lot of interpretations and reinventions of vampires. Some of them are silly but some make for really good stories. Some of them describe them as more or less ordinary people, but trobled with the thirst for blood and an urge to hunt and kill human beings. But with discipline and self control, they can be almost human. Sergei Lukyanenko did that in his Watch- Series and the World of Darkness pen and paper games also work that way. And Sir Terry Pratchett's Discworld features similar vampires too... yes that is comedy, but still makes for a very good story.
Sometimes they are transformed by a disease that enhances their strength and speed, but renders their body unable to produce hemoglobin. So they have to drink other peoples blood.
Sometimes they are demon possessed corpes.
And sometimes they are just funny puppets who love to count things in an overdramatic way.
And as long as the story is good I am happy with that. I personally do not like it when vampirism is depicted as more of a boon than a curse, though.
I agree.
Personally--and yes this is purely opinion--I think vampyrism and lycanthropy are best depicted as AT LEAST curses that no sane person would actually want, and at worse as an outright possession (in the case of Vampires after you are dead, in the case of Werewolves while you're still alive).
This is because it leads to really wonderful enemies for good guys, really wonderful villains to play, AND a really special hero if some strange alchemical thing happens to make some permutation of a Werewolf or Vampire become a good guy--which is the general formula for Superheroes.
I'll shut up about this now, but it is something that I (in a nerdy way) feel strongly about.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Must have sparkly vampires............
So I can waste their emo faces
What about those that use whole tubes of SunScreen? ;)
[img]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/blade/images/b/b6/Img_10.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090627215617[/img][img=260x390]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5Uim282G92o/S7Qa7P3vc8I/AAAAAAAAAC4/I83GGbbyVfE/s1600/deaconfrost.jpg[/img]
CoH had vampires and werewolves and their own lore for them and yet people still made their own versions. CoT having their own lore set up won't stop it.
So, go with the varied power route, but typical if we bite you and desire to bring you over, you become one of us! Make them have varied powers and you have your cheap and easy to replicate WOD vampires! Weaker in day light, strongest at night!
I think those get a classic twelve-inch wooden ruler through the heart. ^_^
Also, on the [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/OurVampiresAreDifferent/Literature]TVTropes page for "Our Vampires are Different", Literature section[/url] the first entry is Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Personally, I've always liked the idea that vampires, werewolves, and even demons can become good, provided that:
1. They retain the badassery and creepiness that both are supposed to have. As monsters, good or evil they are supposed to invoke feelings of unease and they are supposed to be more powerful than the average person, but not invincible. The problem I have with the portrayal of any supernatural being these days In an attempt to make them to good or at least identifiable they also take away any power and scariness these creatures were originally created to invoke and the reason most enjoy them in order to do that. A vampire can be a good guy and still retain these features instead of having to just be a moody teenager everybody calls a vampire. Worst of all, they'll make them so powerful and make being one have so few drawbacks that if they can turn others like them it quickly becomes ridiculous why humans aren't lining up to beg to be turned into one or that humans even bother to try to take them out. There's no tension involved when everybody important is a bunch of near invincible beings.
2. They are supposed to be sentient on some level. It makes sense that a creature that can think beyond it's own instincts would be able to at least consider NOT being a mass murdering psychopath out of practicality if nothing else, just like real people have instincts but defer to their intelligence in most situations instead of letting those instincts control them. Sure, they might never necessarily be GOOD, but it would be idiotic of them to be evil for the sake of it and it just creates a good deal of fridge logic if ALL of them are always chaotic evil.
3. There are many and crippling drawbacks to being one. Having to drink blood or being unable to go out in the sun isn't enough by itself, it has to be hell to be one at least at first, otherwise everybody would want to be one. On the other hand, I don't find it acceptable if those drawbacks are permanent and insurmountable either, any more than someone who is stuck in a wheelchair would accept that there's nobody that's so much as trying to make them able to walk again and they are fools for even thinking of it.
Most of this also applies to any supernatural creature that is non-sentient, provided they are intelligent enough to be tamed and directed, like animals in the real world can be.
If they are going to have vampires, werewolves, demons, whatever, whatever the actual lore is I hope that it allows for players to be them in some fashion and that the character creator and power sets are flexible enough to allow for players to make something similar to various depictions of whatever supernatural creature they want to be whether its for role playing or not if not parts and such specifically designed for it.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
1) Agreed a bit. I think the problem is, part of the downside of being a vampire is supposed to be the damning of your soul. That's something a lot of today's generation may just not see as a thing or with the idea of immortality, a bad thing. Why care about going to hell if you're never going to die to go there? :p But they are supposed to be more powerful than humans.
2) Well, I don't know if they'd be called psychopaths. Vampires would be top of the food chain. One doesn't call someone a psychopath for eating food. Or even playing with their food. Though, I guess if one taunts the cow, they'd likely be considered weird, but then the cow can't really talk back, and fear may just make their food taste better!
3) Have to remember, the drawbacks here are all Hollywood defined and Hollywood has shown to be more than willing to change the rules on them. However, after watching some RPs and even interfering in them in MMOs where the vampire is about to turn a willing soul over because they decided "Lets make it a public affair of turning you into a damned creature in a place full of people who would kill us both, or me for doing it". :p
The idea of the vampire as a sympathetic character and not just a straight-up villain was probably begun by Anne Rice, in my opinion.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Yeah Anne Rice definitely gave the "sympathetic vampire" story concept a good push. Of course you could say that "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Shadows]Dark Shadows[/url]" (the original TV show, not the semi-silly Johnny Depp movie) helped to open that door as well.
Anyway as long as players are still free to RP whatever "verison" of vampires they want I don't really care how CoT defines its own variants.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I don't know if I would say it was a "failed" experiment. Horrible, yes, and there was room for improvement in the process, as one Striga Island mission dealt with. But if the goal was to transform average person into a viable superhuman weapon, you would have to say it was a success.
As far as where CoT goes with their own vampire lore, as long as they don't sparkle I'm ok.
-----------------------------------------
I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
I'm suddenly having horrible flashbacks to [url=http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Tobias_Hansen#Destroy_the_vampyr_lab]that one mission[/url] in Striga where you had to destroy the vampire (Vampyr) transformation chambers, and once you got close to any of them, they would start spawning an endless stream of vampires. This could get out of hand [i]very[/i] quickly when the room started filling up with an army of vampires. The room also housed a bunch of turrets just in case the vampires weren't enough to deal with.
/em shudders
That was a hell of a mission :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
What's wrong with them sparkling in CoT? I don't think it's a copyright issue with Twilight and all vampires are more than their original interpretation thanks to hollywood and myths just changing!
CoT's could sparkle and be total monsters with the only heart of gold ones being any player character ones!
I might've been thinking of the Warweolves being the failed Nictus then. I know some aspect of the Council was made up of failed Nictus attempts.
As for Striga... I guess I can sympathise. When I came back to the game and spent time on Virtue, my levelling experience launched me right passed it, so I never really went back to it for any reason.
When I was a blaster on Defiant or just playing on Union, Striga was the point I could never surpass, but I think that was more due to a different ethic in gaming. Striga was like the slightly less engaging Hollows for me, at the time, but I kinda wish I went and did the whole thing, I kinda think I might have enjoyed it.
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
Are lions evil for eating lambs? All forms of life have the divine right to live and do what it takes to do such.
Vampires aren't bad, they're just a different form of life that humans have not yet reconciled. We'll have the same struggle when AI becomes sentient.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
As long as you count an undead as lifeform. Can something that is not really alive claim a divine right? Sure they are sentient, but they defy the natural order by prolonging their existance beyond their death. Difficult question...
And what lambs are you talking about? They were already missing when I arrived, honest!
Lions aren't evil for eating lambs, but lions and lambs are real.
Vampires are myths and were originally conceived of from fears of supernatural monstrous perversions of life, not natural predators at all--hence the term undead. They were the dead who's corpses were re-animated and worn by another, different spirit. Usually a very nasty one.
Now, I know that vampires have recently become re-imagined in some popular fiction as immortal and super-pretty rather than the original mythology of undead possession, but I personally find that less authentic and interesting.
Basically they're often now depicted as an emo-goth super-species. Fine if it floats your boat, but it doesn't float mine. I will say this, though.
If some emo-goth super-pretty super-species tries to use me as their cattle, this is going to be one pissed off, unruly, vampire-slaying cow :P.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Hear Here
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Vampires are of equal sentient levels. So yes. Yes they are. At the same time, they survive by drinking blood without having to kill, yet have a tendency to love to kill.
At the same time they're dead. And generally most version of vampires all agree that their souls are damned.
I feel like this needs to be on a T-Shirt or a motivational poster of some kind.
But, yeah. I would likely agree that the inherent need to feed off of other living things doesn't make a person evil. If it did, then no one isn't evil because plants are technically alive too. The only thing in fiction I can think of that wouldn't be evil by that standard would be Gorons, since all they eat are rocks.
It also doesn't help that the vast majority of vampires in fiction usually take to their meals with a form of malicious glee, and by most standards, when they eat they also potentially gain a new plaything to boot. It's like a kinder surprise, but likely less disappointing. Some would argue that this is due to vampirism itself, that it isn't the vampire that's doing the thinking but the thing that afflicts them that drives it, but enough applications of the curse can irrevocably change a person.
You see, one thing I personally notice from a lot of vampire fictions would be that feeding, fighting and generally inflicting pain provokes an almost instinctive pleasure in them. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot) of fictions out there dating back to the original Dracula myth where the bite of a vampire wasn't painful as much as it was sexually exciting to both parties involved.
Think about it for a moment. You're a monster beyond normal human capabilities. You don't need to sleep, you don't age anymore, and you now have an array of powers that can make life exciting. Normal weapons no longer harm you, the only thing is you need to go and drink people's blood, but doing so feels really damn good. In fact, generally harming people, playing with them, is a good time all round for you now. You might feel guilty at first, repulsed even, but after enough exposure, you're reassured that very few, if any people can do anything to stop you. The rules of the life you once had no longer apply to you, and you still have full control over your life for the most part. Eventually, that's going to turn you evil.
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Everything about vampires screams EVIL!!
they're vulnerable to sunlight and holy objects
they drink blood which is forbidden to Jews and Christians
They feed primarily on human beings
they're undead = anti life
they maintain their existence on this plane by committing sacrilege and murder
they also delight in destroying the innocent
their primary victims are women and children
They draw power from Satan, Even Dracula's name means son of the Devil.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Actually the word Dracula comes from the word dracul which means "dragon" in Italian. Listen this is a supers world and titan city is supposed to be the supers capital of this world. I don't think in a city where super soldiers and werewolves the roleplaying community or even the world in general shouldn't actively against vampires. I think sooner or later there would eventually be a company that sells blood from doners to people who need to drink blood to live. I mean yeah I get that it might produce twilight like vampires but making vampirism illegal would produce a lot of dark brooding emo vampires that think the world is afraid of them because they wear mascara and listen to barely understandable metal songs and go on long monologues about how their "wolves among sheep" or some other garbage and treat everyone who isn't covered in black leather like crap. Which by the way I find even more annoying than twilight vampires because they're affectively the same boring jerk. Atleast the twilight movies are atleast unintentional funny. We shouldn't be trying to make a world of darkness type world, and while I don't want to limit the fun of people who do like 90's antiheroes, and I do recognize that just because someone likes something I don't doesn't make them a bad person, I also don't want to limit the fun of people who like golden age heroes or even modern day heroes. With accepted vampirism there are more opportunities and yes while twilight style vampirism may be one of them, there are also such concept as someone who contracted vampirism as a super soldier project or villainous vampires who are nostalgic for the days of old when they feared and are still breaking into houses and murdering innocent people for their blood. With illegal vampirism you get a lot fewer possibilities.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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I think players can and should make any kind of vampires they want. But my vote would be for vampires in game lore to lean a bit more towards a traditional vampire in flavor.
CoH vampires were a 5th Column/Council creation, but they had a good monstrous feel. And there was plenty of room for players to be anywhere from traditional to Anne Rice to sparkly.
Marvel had both supernatural and scientific pseudo-vampires, and some vampiric mutants and mutates, among other vampirey things, so there's all kinds of room.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I think it would be interesting if the original Dracula is ashamed of the state of vampires today, and wants to bring it back to the days when they where feared monsters rather than equals, and has allied himself with like minded vampires to kill random people and vampires who refuse to join them for their blood. That way the people who want to be the truly monstrous vampires can have a group for them, and anyone else can make whatever vampires they want to make. I'd also like to see the same thing done with werewolves. Also both factions should be villain groups. If you are part of a group devoted to killing thousands of people just so you can feel special, you have no right calling yourself a hero or even an anti hero.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
Last I recall, sunlight was a movie weakness. Not an original weakness. Their primary victim being women and children is new to me, though I could see why it would be said.
Destroying the innocent when one feels evil, makes sense. They were human, they aren't anymore. Now they feed on humans. While eating your food doesn't typically make one evil, I'd say that they were once human and now the walking dead likely leads them to being evil.
I'm sure there's some story that tries to say otherwise. But those are in the same vein as Twilight. Against the grain of the stereotypical vampire.
[img]http://s3.postimg.org/f4998n403/Takizawabrains.png[/img]
So you guys want terrifying vampires huh? (This guy actually isn't technically a vampire but his species is pretty damn close accept for a few other creepy added on characteristics....)
Edit: In response to the ''Vampires are evil!'' comment Tokyo Ghoul has a vampire like species named ghouls (who look exactly like humans up until they start hunting or eating them) of course that preys on humans entirely (and on eachother at some points). You would assume from the get go that this species would be evil on all fronts...but they are definitely not. Some ghouls don't even like eating humans, they don't target living breathing ones....they scavenge corpses of suicide victims to survive. Others are of course like humans (and we see a few examples of awful humans as well)are pretty crazy, sociopathic, sadistic, and psychopathic. Ghouls have no other alternative food sources other then humans so of course they are all ostracized and hunted for it.
Just because some people in a species that is forced to live off of another sentient species are pyschopaths, sadists, and crazy assholes does not mean that all of em are. I don't agree with these black and white interpretations at all......
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
And still looks human!
He would eat Edward alive.
No seriously do not screw with that guy if you want to keep living. He has super strength and speed too. This guy comes up to the level of Alucard (Yes that is intended to be Dracula backwards and yes he is actually Dracula) from Hellsing in terms of power
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
Humans prefer to think of themselves as being at the top of the food chain.
They tend to get rather upset when they find out they're not ... and they aren't real keen (as a species) in playing "nice" with competitors for the title.
Go figure ...
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Well I wouldn't say black and white. In stories like Tokyo ghoul, I like it for the philosophical bent and for being a study on morality. Here's the thing. This isn't Tokyo ghoul. This is city of titans. Things that apply to Tokyo ghoul just don't apply a supers genre. In a supers genre even if there are things like beings who can only sustain themselves through eating sentient creatures and only sentient creatures, a biologist from a supers world can still develop a super serum for those who don't want to be like that anymore. In Tokyo ghoul the people only have modern technology and they don't have mad science (which by the way is a big trope for supers), making both sides of the issue a valid side with neither side being the true villain. In the marvel universe however? The ghouls would absolutely be the bad guy, since reed Richards or iron man should be smart enough to make a cure for them almost instantaneously, and either of them are nice enough guys to give it for free to those who wanted them.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Just because it's a super hero genre doesn't mean there are cure alls.
Both Marvel and DC have cancer as still exisiting. All that super science and no cure (well, in one of the animated movies, Lex Corp discovered the cure of cancer but wanted to instead make a daily med routine instead of a cure).
CO however does have cancer as being cured. And look at that, people who create characters suffering from cancer. :p
Vampires exist in the super genre with no cure for the condition, unless it's some mythical hard to find one use kind of deal. There may not even be a scientific cure for what could amount to magic. Super science still has mysteries to be discovered or the story goes stale!
And look at the Ironman movies. Stark is the only name in clean energy and he's not just giving it away :p
I recall DC and Marvel having superheroes and super villains with disabilities (some even use this to there advantage) and there has been a few undead supers as well. Those specific individuals have to deal with that since birth and so far I haven't seen any of them get cured (hell with some of them you wouldn't even be aware that they had disabilities).
My point with the Tokyo Ghoul example is that a species like vampires, ghouls, or any other type of cannibalistic beings can not be generalized as objectively evil nor objectively good as a whole [b]especially if they are sentient[/b] and of course the same goes for humans . Even if it was a non sentient species it still wouldn't be applicable as in that case they would just be following survival instinct.
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
Alright, that's a good point. If that's the case it would be interesting to see a race of vampires like ghouls from Tokyo Ghoul. They should be hunted down though, even if there are good vampires who have to kill humans to survive, the humans should still be expected to fight for themselves, and those types of vampires should be killed on sight, there still should be vampire species who can survive on animal blood. It will make for some pretty interesting moral stances, which I find are lacking in CO which is partially why I don't like the writing of that game, but if someone is on a team IC with my super soldier vampire who can sustain himself on animal blood, and that someone goes and tries to eat an innocent bystander, my vampire is still going to try to shoot him with a salt infused bullet.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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I have seen various such and such like that recently. Protagonists or Heroes that are of a presumably antagonistic species that hunt there own murderous kind. Hell I recall a few works with vampires and zombies that would do that (that one old superhero cartoon, Danny Phantom was based on a ghostly superhero stopping ghosts from causing havoc while being hunted by humans at the same time)
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
Generally the good vampires don't kill to survive. Generally the good vampire is the minority. Just tends to make for the more interesting story. More universal story.
I am not sure about vampires but I do know of other good undead/undead-like that struggle with there cannibalistic urges day to day. The only ''good vampire'' I have seen other then Twillight (which is an absolutely awful depiction of vampires and romance) was a sociopath who was sent to kill people worse then him. We are talking genocidal maniacs and serial killers here.
Although he still had some rather questionable moments. He definitely killed some civies in a crossfire here and there and that's a no go for heroes and vigilantes
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
It's more that writers are afraid to cure problems in comics that still exist in the real world, so they never have their super geniuses even think to try to cure cancer or fix the disabled or whatever and problems coming from said comics are only fixed if it's convenient to a plot to do so. Reed Richards probably could cure cancer but that would seem to marginalize people in real life that still have cancer and they also wouldn't be able to have cancer storylines anymore. He or Doctor Strange or somebody like that could probably come up with some blood substitute for vampires or whatever sort of fantastic problem but then vampires and other such things wouldn't be so big of a problem and it would kill a massive number of plots. However, it also seems like even if the cure does exist for that condition in the comic world it's either rare or people don't even think of using it or refuse if they do. For instance, Barbara Gordon was crippled for decades despite the fact that there was countless different methods she could have walked again, heroes with healing powers, healing magic, dozens of cybernetic prosthesis by countless sources that are just as good or better than her legs, whatever. The only reason she's crippled for so long is because she refuses to use those sorts of things and the writers wanted her to stay in a wheelchair.
Well, in my view any sentient being that knowingly brings harm and especially kills other sentient beings when it is completely unnecessary to do so is evil. A vampire that drinks another human being to death when they could survive on less blood than that and are able to choose not to is a psychopath, more so if they were once human even if it is their nature to do so. A human that hunts vampires when they are generally harmless just because that's what they are is evil. An alien that goes to earth and starts killing humans while knowing what they are sentient like itself and without provocation or dire need is evil, same as if humans did the same to aliens. The same applies to demons, sentient werewolves, sentient robots, whatever. Self defense, defense of another, defense of property, and because they literally have no other option are valid reasons and thus not evil, and even then if they do so with a sadistic glee they are still evil. A Lion is are literally completely incapable of doing anything other than killing Gazelles because they must eat meat and they don't process the intellectual capacity to be able to think of doing otherwise, a vampire that is sentient is able to choose not to kill a human in most depictions I am aware of, thus if they do so they are evil.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
Exactly. Having the cure alls leads to story problems. Cure cancer? There goes that story! Cure whatever condition and there goes that story! Cure vampirism, then you can't kill them anymore.
So glad they finally got Barbara out of the wheelchair. Now only if they could make the comic interesting enough for me to pick up!
Hell, they usually do have cures for this stuff already in fiction, but either it's a one in a million shot one time thing, there's only like one or 2 in existence, it's destroyed or lost in some manner, or worst of all everybody just ignores it and acts like it never happened in subsequent stories. One More Day was probably the supreme example of why they usually don't have such cure alls around. Curing Aunt May of a gunshot wound and subsequent coma shouldn't have required a deal with Marvel's version of the devil but the writers did it anyway, despite Peter running around to everybody on the planet he knows of to try to get them to help only for them to tell him there's nothing they can do and not bother to explain why, solely because there would be no plot otherwise.
Having Barbara be crippled for so long was nonsensical in the first place, but the fact that the writers made her so adamantly against using the countless cures all over the DC universe had available was even worse. I've pretty much avoided the entire New 52 for many reasons, but curing Barbara finally wasn't one of them.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
I always love when people talk about fictional, fairy-tale things using matter-of-fact absolutes. I'm happy for you that you have your own definitions for what a fictional thing is or isn't. But opinions about the nature of vampires are just like a-holes now-a-days... everybody's got one. *shrugs*
This is why I'm not going to get too spun up by whatever version of vampires CoT is going to offer. Some people will like them and some people will hate them depending on how closely they match their visions for what they think vamps should be. In the long run life will go on and we'll all adapt to it roleplay-wise or otherwise.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Agreed. It's all made up stuff. I obviously have my opinions which happen to kind of line up with Paladins, but, in the end, I'll roll with whatever and still enjoy the game just fine.
While I was over all very happy with CoH, I do remember there being things I didn't like. But I barely remember exactly what those things were, because I didn't focus on them. I just worked around them.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I like vampires who are pure unadulterated evil (hello Black Court vamps from Dresden Files.)
I like vampires that range from decent person to sociopath (a good example would be the Vampire Files novels from P.N. Elrod)
I have no use for sparkly vampires (Blade versus Edward, fight!)
What a vampire is changes depending on the mythos/story they are in. Some are irredeemably evil, some are people with a very specific condition. Others are mindless beasts (see the vampire species in Larry Niven's Ringworld). As long as the stories are well told, I'll likely enjoy them.
And Twilight's vampires and werewolves are only that in name and abilities. Absolutely poor representation of both and a awful representation of love (if you want a textbook definition of a creepy manipulative asshole Edward would fall under it as a example).
So yeah I would not like sparkly vampires.....
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/nyktoss-character-cove] My characters [/url]
The reason for the varying types of vampires, and in particular of vampires that don't have to be evil is that a lot of people like the idea of having the powers of a vampire without the disadvantage of having to be evil. So they come up with something "different" that isn't different.
I can certainly understand this, vampires have some cool powers (at least some versions of them do) but these different types should be exceptions rather than rules. In the context of this game that means non evil vampires should be players and at most one NPC.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
In the European mythos, vampires were evil. This is not the case in every culture. For a quick example, there's the aswang, a creature in Filipino folklore which kind of a mix of a vampire and a ghoul. While a predator that preyed on humans, they were capable of being befriended and would not harm their neighbors. There's even a saying "Better an aswang than a thief", as the thief would steal from their neighbor but the aswang wouldn't hunt a neighbor. ( The neighbors may well hunt the aswang, however, if they discover one)
I'd say it's less 'have the power without being evil' and more 'have the power without the price'. The usual price for a (European) vampire's powers are the isolation from others, being reviled, cast out, losing their humanity, etc.
Let's be fair lots of people treat vampires with absolutes. We call them Twilight Haters now a days.
I know it's been awhile since I read the books, but last I recall they're not even called werewolves in Twilight.
I know I'm the odd man out, but if I had my druthers, I'druther there were no vampires in the game at all. No vampires, no skeletons, no zombies, no Nazis. Werewolves and witches are okay though, along with evil gnomes and brownies. Those have not yet been overused enough to become cliches.
But like I said, I know I'm the odd man out.
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My author page at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2MPvkRX
My novelty shirts: https://amzn.to/31Sld32
I say that to open people's mind on what lore "should be"
The Titan Universe is a vast place with its own rules. Vampires included. At their core they exhibit a parasitic relationship to a host that then changes to a vampiric relationship that forever changes the host.
What the social behavior, physics, boundries and etcetera of a vampire will all be nuanced. But that nuance is a GOOD thing. Don't think that ALL vampires need to fit one mold.. even after the game-lore defines the fae/vamp/ware lore you KNOW you'll see players defy that lore and play their own version. TO that I say they'll get in where they fit in..
Crowd Control Enthusiast
What exactly is wrong with skeletons, my maniacal friend? Not that I really remember them existing too much in CoX.
Puny Heroes.
Not in CoX, but in all the other games out there! I've played too many medieval fantasy games. I am sick to death of fighting skeletons and zombies and vampires and other "undead". Let the dead stay dead, let the Nazis keep their infamy in the distant past, and let us fight against modern living enemies with modern living goals.
But as I noted above. I recognize I'm the odd man out.
I'd really like to see a Persian or Arabian or Palestinian immigrant shopkeeper (better yet, multiples of each!) who quote from the peaceful passages in the Qur'an and send us on missions to root out and destroy terrorist cells. Now that would be modern and innovative! Perhaps villains could from time to time get missions selling weapons to terrorists, or eliminating terrorist cells that pose a barrier to the villain's own goals.
Probably won't happen. Too controversial.
How about a hacker cell? A small group of computer geeks who use their knowledge to rob banks, bleed funds off internet money transfers, steal credit card numbers, and set up fake websites that mimic important online retailers or service providers? Perhaps a villain could discover one of these groups when they drain his account and defeating them restores his finances along with a bit extra.
Maybe a huge underground ponzi scheme that opens with an offer from an anonymous source to invest some ingame currency for a huge return on investment, then they vanish and the player (either villain or hero) tracks them down over 3-5 mission story arc to recover their losses and drain the scam artist's funds?
How about a corrupt politician that uses campaign contributions to fund a drug cartel? The player hero sets out to eliminate drug dealers to clean up the street or the player villain sets out to eliminate drug dealers to open up a neighborhood for their own schemes. Either way, by the third mission into the story they discover the head of the drug dealers is a sitting member of the city council who won by a landslide on his/her promise to clean up the streets thus making those dangerous superheroes unnecessary and redundant.
It just seems to me there is a world of possibility out there waiting to be explored, so why do we still need vampires, zombies, and Nazis?
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My author page at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2MPvkRX
My novelty shirts: https://amzn.to/31Sld32
What I'd love to see is a fantasy creature that's NEVER been done before by anyone. With the exception of Sci-Fi fantasy in general seems stuck with the same old creatures that have been around for decades if not centuries without making any effort to come up with something original, at most taking a creature that already exists, adding something to it, and calling that a new creature i.e. putting the word "ice" in front of ogre, giving it snow and ice powers, and acting like that's really any different from the standard ogre.
It seems like Sci Fi is the only part of fantasy that so much as tries to come up with anything new, and even then they often just take a human and slap some makeup on them and call it a new alien.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..."
Ah I suppose I could see your point. I suppose I just notice zombies more because skeletons are generally confined to the fantasy genre while zombies are freaking everywhere. With that said I still think if done right zombies can be fun for the setting. I liked the Vahzilok, tech zombie scheme because it seemed less generic to me. Virus born zombies I can do without and magically arisen are dull unless they are being directly controlled by a single supernatural type badass. Then I can find that a bit more interesting. Vampires on the other hand I have never liked for some reason... I don't know. Just something about them... Bugs me for some reason.
Puny Heroes.
This is all fine, and if CoT decides to go this direction, so be it. But you only seem to be aware of a very specifiic and recent inpretation of vampires with your referances to host-parasite relationships and "form of life".
For the vast majority of history, none of there things had anything to do with vampires. They were considered to be supernatural and unnatural and undead.
But, there have been some good storys written with the modern virus/species interpretation, so I wouldn't mind that.
There is, however, a much more ancient and established lore to be aware of.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
The supernatural is just misunderstood science. This truth I find to be self evident
Crowd Control Enthusiast
finding your truths to be self evident is the path to intolerance.
when you think that your truth is obvious, you start thinking that anyone who disagrees with you must be either dishonest or stupid.
That's why democrats always accuse republicans of being stupid, and republicans always accuse democrats of being evil.
don't fall into that trap.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Maybe in RL, but in superhero genre, it's not misunderstood science, it's magic and demons and heaven and hell. :p
We hold these truths to be self-evident ... U.s. Declaration of Independence. The phenomenon you describe as leading to intolerance is enshrined in a document that led to one of the least intolerant societies and governments in the world.
Funny sort of trap
What if most republicans actually are stupid AND most democrats actually are evil? The problem we're facing today is not that one of these parties is any better than the other - the problem we're facing today is that we have [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washingtons_Farewell_Address#Political_parties]political parties[/url] to begin with.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Honestly I think there's a trope in here that I actively hate in RP, and it's not due to vampires or werewolves entirely. It happened rarely, but it never failed to actively piss me off whenever I encountered it.
When a villain responds to the devouring of humans as something natural or just because humans, in turn, eat other creatures. It feels like this PETA scare tactic where you're being presented with a hypothetical karmic scenario, trying to make you a Vegan because hey, you wouldn't like to be a food source, right? Then the villain smiles to themselves, believing that in one statement, their opponent will stand stunned, speechless, devoid of any other logical response other than to stop fighting back and accept their role on the food chain.
And maybe there isn't a response. Maybe it's to be expected that in a world as big and bizarre as this that the possibility of us being prey isn't too far-fetched, and yet we as humans are far too powerful, determined and intuitive to be considered cattle. Other carnivores in the animal kingdom have to deal with most of their prey putting up a damn good fight. [url=http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=277008427661]Hell, even complacent cattle will fight the system, and do well at it[/url]
Point being, even if Vampires are as misunderstood as most would claim, that doesn't mean they will automatically become accepted. A lack of clarity on what they are will be just as terrifying as knowing that they're malicious, horrific abominations. They might not be evil through and through, but on a biological level, we are their prey, and there's no getting around that.
I mean, if you are hunted by a Lion, through no fault of your own, it was just coincidence, and the thing takes your arm, you aren't going to blame yourself or think "poor thing must be hungry or lost" you're going to think "@{~#! That bastard Lion took my arm! I hate that thing!" and possibly be terrified of Lions the rest of your life.
And, at least with Lions, you know where they should be. Vampires, depending on how human they can look, may well be anywhere, ready to pounce, and we wouldn't know it because they could be anyone.
I do a DnD Podcast, which can be listened to here.
Additionally, I write up my sessions of a Teen Heroes game here.
It's starting to sound like you believe in vampires :P.
We're talking about games, mythology and fiction. And there is modern fiction that uses the premise you stated. Some of it good. And if it's good and well-used, I'd be fine with it in the game.
I just wanted to point out that there is an original, much older and larger pool of mythology of vampires. A mythology where precisely what is truly terrifying about them is that they are a supernatural perversion of nature. Quite the opposite of natural.
Anyway, that's about the third time I've pointed that out, so I'll stop boring the good folk of this thread :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
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