In CoH, as you leveled up, you could eventually exhaust every mission that your contacts had for you. At some point, you out-leveled them and they told you to go talk to someone else.
In Destiny 2, which I've been playing a lot lately, there are far fewer NPC contacts, but they never really run out of missions for you to do. Now, the missions they DO have are repetitive and very kill-quota-esque, but they each have 3 missions for you every day. Every day at like 1pm the daily missions reset from the NPCs and you can do three newly pseudorandomized ones. You get rewards from each mission, in the form of some fairy substantial amount of that NPC's merit currency. Devrim Kay, on Earth, trades in dusklight shards, for example. You do his missions, you get dusklight shards, then when you have 55 of them saved up, you can trade them to Devrim for a pseudorandomized loot drop.
CoX was doing more of this type of thing by the end. When they revamped Dark Astoria, there were daily missions you could do for the one contact there. I like the idea of having a few missions to do for each NPC I know, if I want to do them, every day. I like that you get a subset of missions to choose from. If I don't want to "get 20 kills with grenades" tonight, I don't have to take that mission, and I know tomorrow he'll likely have something else for me. If a comparatively quick one is offered, like "generate 10 orbs of light", then take the mission because I'm probably going to do that anyway without even really trying, and this way I get paid for it.
If there's a slow and steady trickle of meaningful, if not really awesome loot to get, you can get people out there in the open world doing stuff and getting noticed, I think.
One other thing, in Destiny 2 , when you get a mission like "Kill 10 Red Legion Legionaires and pick up the Red Legion Supplies boxes they drop", even if someone else working the same map as you kills a bunch of guys and effectively "kill steals" from you, the object you're supposed to collect still drops, and it's phased such that only you can pick it up.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
no
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Why the *bleep* not?
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Okay here's another idea I just had. Let's say there ar elike 12 NPCs in the game that have missions for you every day. Let's further stipulate that each of those contacts has 5 missions which are more or less random. Okay, now, suppose that ONE of those missions from ONE of those NPC's is a special secret "extra loot" mission. You don't find out which one is the extra loot secret mission until after you do it, and it changes every 24 hours on a daily reset. So people can do NPC missions from those 12 NPCs every day until they find it, then post to forums who has it and which one it is that day. Or maybe it doesn't work like that and its a different random mission for each player, I don't know.
The point being, you have 60 different missions you can do and you know ONE of them will get you a loot drop similar to finishing a TF, you just don't know which one it is. We could mess around with the numbers a bit (how many NPCs, how many missions each, etc).
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
if the randomly generated mission givers are in addition to the tons of contacts who have interesting stories to tell and be apart of sure, but I refuse to play only hunt X randomly selected for the rest of my days in CoT. We are trying to make a game that feels like CoX not one that feels like Destiny 2, there is no reason not to do this the way CoX did. You want a few people who give you random quests so you always have an opportunity to get some extra XP when you need it? Cool.... CoV's newspaper missions where like that and they where great filler when you wanted some extra XP, but if we replace all the story content with randomly generated mission then we might aswell be playing Fallout 76.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
We already are going to have the... Whatever it is called, where you can find like tips and essentially construct your own missions. I forget the official name of it.
Also daily missions, daily rewards, and the like are a cheap trick by game designers (probably more likely publishes) to get people logging in every day. They make people feel like if they don't log in and do the missions, get the rewards, or whatever it is then they are missing out.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
CoH had radio and newspaper missions. I'm going out on a limb by assuming CoT will have them as well. Isn't that the same thing?
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Our version, tentatively called Schemes and Investigations is where you will “craft your mission”.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
How do you go about writing these schemes and investigations? will they be like cox's newspaper system where you fill in the blanks or will there be premade, or will it be a combination of the 2?
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/24.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/content/making-content-episodes-tips-and-more]Here's the update on Tips, but it's a bit aged[/url]
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
You like Destiny 2. We get it. Post after post about Destiny 2 and how they do things. Please go play Destiny 2 and enjoy every last little bit of it.
I do not want CoT to be a daily mission grind for loot to maybe improve whatever gear score. Nor do I want some secretly random daily mission scheme that provides high quality loot. Also, why would a contact have an endless queue of missions to randomly target X or Y or Z group for # widgets. Then the next day randomly target groups U or V or W for more widgets. Then the next day target groups X or W or F for plumbuses. I have played those hamster wheel games before and I would prefer CoT did not employ that strategy.
I want to play because it is fun (makes me feel heroic or dastardly or whatever). I want to play because whatever I stumble upon opens up new possibilities (surprise me).
The MWM lore team has been working really hard to flesh out the history of the world. I would hope that a good chunk of that could be used to keep us busy (like what desviper linked above). Plus it would be neat if some contacts could function dynamically based off of whatever world event that may be happening at the moment. Plus I'd like to see some contacts have mission tips that don't pan out (a dead end lead, a mission failure). Or seemingly not pan out (seem to have no purpose) if you aren't paying attention.
Lets say a contact (lets call him Bob) has a daily repeatable mission, what happens if we talk to another contact (Fred) and mention Bob's obsession over X. Then Fred tells us the sob story about how Bob's little brother got caught in the crossfire of a Rook turf dispute and died. You then "investigate" all the Rooks you can find (lay a beat down) and find out that the little brother wasn't killed, he JOINED the Rooks and has been living a life of crime. Do you extricate little bro and return him to the safety of his family? Do you see an opportunity to further corrupt a young mind that is clearly susceptible to influence? Do you apprehend little bro, throw him in jail and let Bob know his little brother is alive and a scum sucking criminal? Do you do nothing and never tell Bob what you know? Either way, you can go back to Bob every day, beat up some Rooks for him and the fleshed out background of the event (beating up Rooks every day) has some deeper meaning than just "Kill X Rooks, Get Y reward".
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
One effect of the CoX 'out-leveled Contact' system was to move the character around through the city and into progressively higher-threat areas and content. I don't think I'd enjoy being assigned to Twinshot as my 'Only' contact and having to put up with her condescending attitude for many-many levels. OTOH, I could see Choosing Captain Orbit as my primary contact and basing my activities out of the Orbit Room. I might enjoy running a long, Flavorful arc with a consistent 'voice', which might Seem un-ending, But I'll want the freedom to choose to not run yet another action-cycle against the Otiose-Alien-Scum on any given evening.
Be Well!
Fireheart
No.
For one, I don't think it really fits that [b]ALL[/b] mission givers will have something for you to do each and every day, mainly due to the number of them compared to other games like D2. Most of these will have you solve one or a few specific problems and be "done". Now I'm not discounting dailies on the whole but if they are included then they should be reserved to the major factions/organizations.
For another, I think that the old newspaper/radio missions fit this genre much much better. Add in the Schemes and Investigations system MWM is building and it's even more fitting.
Right, but that would be more than just a simple "daily" quest, it would effectively be a story arc with a repeatable element that needs a little bit of "investigation" to trigger the "story" part of it. Could be neat for a few but as with most things here, don't overuse it. Unless there is a natural opposition (law enforcement vs. criminals) I'm not sure they could be that diverse backgrounds for dailies, so that they all effectively don't boil down to revenge (law abiding "side") or just go do a random crime (law breaking "side").
As someone who didn't get the chance to play CoH, I would like to know more about those newspaper / radio missions. Could you explain / describe them for me?
[font=courier][color=#FF0000]Tech[/color][/font]
45 52 52 4F 52 3A 20 34 30 34 0D 0A 48 65 72 6F 20 6E 6F 74 20 66 6F 75 6E 64 21
I'm not really for this idea either. I think part of having different contacts is to encourage people to go to separate (and likely level-appropriate) areas of the City [i]and[/i] explore the environment along the way. While not everyone is interested in seeing all the nooks and crannies of a City, it's fairly certain a strong percentage of the player-base will be if they're interested in a game in the same vein as CoH/V, especially if there's an badge/achievement system built into it.
Radio missions were where your hero/vigilante would listen to the police band radio and go to a door mission with a relatively simple objective, such as get such and such glowie, arrest this baddo, rescue this civilian, etc. There were probably thirty(?) or so per level range that would be randomly cycled as you opened the radio. They weren't connected to any minor/major storyarc, just easy one-shot missions.
https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Police_Radio
Newspaper missions were the villain/rogue version where a job would be hidden in code within the text of a local periodical of the Rogue Isles. I don't know the details about it as much since I was predominantly blueside but it was the redside version of a radio mission.
https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Rogue_Isle_Protector
This game is an RPG; Destiny is a loot-shooter. Because of that, Destiny's "lore" is designed around mechanics first, while CoT's mechanics should be designed alongside the lore.
The Altruist, Invulnerability/Super Strength Stalwart.
Planet 10, I think you're being a bit too combative.
If you have followed these forums for a while, you will know that Radiac plays other games and then comes into these forums to tell us what he thinks of those games and what lessons he has learned from them and how they could possibly apply to or be considered by the CoT community.
He does so in a constructive and thought-provoking way.
You, on the other hand, merely said "no." Which is neither constructive nor thought-provoking. So I can understand why Radiac would want to know why and furthermore why he showed a bit of incredulousness.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
I'd like to remind everyone that having daily missions to do doesn't prevent people from doing other stuff. You could have contacts like CoX had, then, when you outlevel them, that unlocks a daily or weekly mission they can give you. You don't have to do them, but they're there. IN fact, you didn't have to do ANY missions for any one specific contact if you didn't want to in CoX, you could just do outdoor street sweeping and TFs, for example. People who want to explore the whole game will do that (I know I intend to, I did that in GW2 when I was obsessing about that game two years ago...). Heck, I could see giving a loot drop every time you find a new exploration badge or plaque you haven't found yet, etc. All I'm saying is, it would be nice to have a reason for every NPC to exist even after you've outleveled them, if that even happens. Also, I personally feel like I benefit from having rotating or random daily/weekly stuff to do in a RPG like this. I did a LOT of tip mission for Hero Merits in CoX. I also did a lot of TFs and Incarnate Trials. Even with all of that I was still never really "done" playing my toons because they all had various stopgap "less than optimal" inventions in their enhancement slots that I knew I ultimately wanted to change to some purple set or HamiO I didn't have yet. Loot was a long-term motivation for me in CoX, but I didn;t grind for it like it was a job, I played the game and tried to acquire it over time, knowiung that it was the journey, not the destination, that was where the fun was.
I like loot and I'm not ashamed to say I played a lot of CoX for loot rewards. Furthermore, I personally believe there were WAAAAAY more people playing that game back then who were motivated as I was than there were people who didn't care about leveling up or loot or their MIDS builds and just wanted to read the fluff text in every mission.
Within months of this or any game being released, you're going to run out of new stuff to do that you haven't done yet. Players, if they like the game, will VORACIOUSLY consume new original story content faster than any dev team can produce it. At that point, when new stuff to do ran out in CoX, what kept me interested in re-doing the same content over and over again was the rewards you got and the fun of teaming up with people and joking around in text chat while getting them. Weekly Strike Targets, Hero Merits, the need/desire to respec my toon, getting a badge on a toon, etc.
CoX HAD outdoor street sweeping. I think having one or more loot-based things motivating that would cause some of us (people like me) to do more of that. Getting people into the outdoor areas doing stuff is valuable window-dressing for any game. It's also a social enabler. New players meet vets that way, you casually PUG with people for a few min doing an event, maybe get invited to their SG or whatever, etc.
The design of the game shouldn't be done in such a way as to weed out all aspects that don't appeal to one subset of people, but rather to have something for every different player to enjoy, even if the players can't agree on what they like or dislike the most in the first place.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Personally I'd rather see that dailies and weeklies, if they get implemented, be generally on the meta-level by "only" requiring X number of TF's regardless of which ones, Y number of enemy defeats regardless of which ones, Z number of missions regardless of which ones, and so on. Sure there could be some exceptions that would be more specific in their goals but limited to be actual exceptions.
As for NPC's still earning a "right" to exist after having exhausted their normal range of missions or outleveld them, make them part of the Schemes and Investigations system. IIRC it will be hard to outlevel a mission giver since they will have a much much wider range of "acceptable levels", minimum level would be inline with the area but max would practically be level cap. Though I have to say that I don't remember if it was a "we want this" or "we plan to have this" statement.
I don't know. Personally, my thoughts of when I first started playing COX: I went through the story arcs, actually reading them. Then I went through a phase that I wanted to try new stuff and level quick, max out, but after doing that with a couple toons I didn't like the feeling that those toons were missing out on the adventure. I realize this may sound a little neurotic, but for me fighting FrostFire was a right of passage that every one of my toons went through. (Remember the gang members in the Hollows just standing around talking? They were Hilarious!) Then I realized that the story / the villains were a big part of the experience. So I slowed down and just let the ride take as long as it needed to. My characters had gear / enhancements that made sense to that character's nature or theme even if it was a detriment or there was a better way to min max stats because that was who they were.
With this in mind I would street sweep because I wanted to, not because contact was giving me random kill x number of y (unless it was already part of a story arc). Unless there was something very specific that was related to my character I wouldn't gear grind. Grinding is called grinding for a reason. I'd rather find some other way to get the item I need or find something else to do. Maybe just buy it, hopefully some allotment will come with the subscription or whatever. I'm not a big fan of running the RNG bling drops for the sake of doing it. If I get a drop in a mission I'll happily use it if I can or sell it in the market to get what I want... but I'm here for the adventure and the character not to be tied to a RNG machine. As a guaranteed trophy for getting a big bad is good. Killing or 'arresting' so many of x type criminals as a RNG mission seems... lack luster at best. If I wanted to fight a certain group in the game or it was in my characters story I would do it anyway. I don't need to be told that by an NPC. (All the people in my supergroup knew most of toons hated evil robots so they knew where to find me on maps :)
So, I think this is about the story, and the character. At least that's how I view this. Your toon should be able to take on missions if it is line with what you view his or her own story arc to be like. By playing the game you are essentially writing your toons story. NPC characters should never give out missions that are out of line with their (NPC's) own story and background. They may get missions added in to their repository once in a while as the game expands, or tweaked, but it is never what you wouldn't expect from that NPC.
If you wanted to sprinkle a couple NPC around at various levels to RNG kill x number of y, you could. It could one of the many aspects of the game I suppose. But the NPCs would have to have a very shallow personality / backstory; I wouldn't be interested in them. I'm clearly not a fan, but to each his own. And honestly if they gave out random loot I needed I would be a little sad to have to deal with it.
As for daily style missions I'm pretty on board with the concept of newspaper / radio missions or whatever they end up being named. They are right in line with a superhero mini story arc and you can do them or not.
The lesson I learned from running missions above sit back take your time and enjoy it as a game and as a story.
Note on RNG missions for clarity: I am not inherently opposed to procedurally done mission maps or the like if the algorithm is clever enough, it just has to have to story to back it up.
I just don't want to be in the middle of a story arc to have the contact suddenly say "I have no missions for you. Go see so and so." just because I leveled. Please let us finish story arcs. I would prefer to have the option to finish all content from a given contact regardless of my character's level.
I also think an occasional follow up or "daily" mission might be nice. Perhaps out of 30 old contacts only a few might have missions on any given day.
"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING"
Maybe an NPC sends a text message on your PDA? "Hey, talk to me, I've got something new that you might like."
Be Well!
Fireheart
I used to street sweep in CoX sometimes. Less as time went on and there were more missions, trials, and TFs to do. I, like many, miss the plain joy of finding a PUG at the entrance and sweeping Boomtown.
But there were things other games have that CoX didn't that make going to the outdoor areas and beating on random mobs more fun, in my opinion.
In Guild Wars 2, every outdoor area is filled with different little activities you can do. Some of them get you points you need to level up and unlock new skills, some of them have an NPC you're trying to help and when you're done you unlock their vending function, there's a "map completion percentage" that only goes to 100% when you do every activity once, etc. There are also events of various sizeds that spwan all over the place too. That game is mostly about the outdoor areas, actually, and there's a fair amount of casual PUG teaming. Twice per day people assemble in the southern end of the one map to defeat Tequatl, The Sunless, a dragon that spawns as an event.
In Destiny 2, the few planets that exist each have a single NPC that you can get missions from, those missions generally involve defeating mobs in the outdoor areas on that planet. Those areas have periodic events that spawn on some kind of regular time intervals, plus there are "patrols" you can do which are little kill quota type stuff that can get you some loot. As I've mentioned before, you can overlap the missions form the NPCs and the patrols and kill two birds with one stone, sometimes three, which makes you feel like you're working smarter and double dipping the same kills for multiple different rewards. You might have an NPC that gives you a mission (called "bounties" in the game) to go get 25 precision kills. Then you get a patrol to kill 10 Dregs in Thieves Landing. So if you can precision kill the Dregs, you get credit toward both objectives in one go. This get's people into the outdoor areas where the small events will spawn, and often you have a mission to do like 2 events or something, so you do them, and other people do them, and maybe you strike up a conversation, etc.
That said, nobody seems to read the text chat in D2. I tihnk this is because the chat window is by default set to aut-hide after a few second of not being used to actively type into. When someone near you, or on your fireteam, types something, it reappears, but there's no audible prompt that someone sent you a message, by default, so I often ignore what people are trying to tell me until whole minutes later, or after the event is over. Just having that CoX "beep" noise that told you you just got a mssage was HUGE in getting people to actually communicate.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Street sweeping in CoT can lead to earning a Tip for a one off mission.
It may also, when we introduce the system, provide a lead or clue for a Scheme or Investigation.
Another system Inwant to implement is Challenges and Achievements. Keeping certain neighborhoods free of key pawn types will earn an Achievement. These aren’t the like of “Defeat 100 Skulls”, and more along the lines of “Neighborhood Peace Keeper”. The Challenge persists in that it increases. The first time may yield rhe Achievemrnt but the second one doesn’t unlock until it is done 5 times, etc.
In this way, there is always something worth doing even if it just street sweeping.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
One key difference, in ethos, between City of Heroes and GW2 or D2 is that CoH was set in a city that was supposed to be mostly safe. In the other two games I mentioned, the outdoor maps are like 90% "wild war zone" and 10% "calm safe area near an NPC vendor". With that in mind, it may be harder to accomplish regular, smaller events that happen frequently throughout the day in CoT than in the other games. Plus with those games, the assumption is that everyone is on the same "team" in terms of alignment, whereas in CoT it won't be like that, necessarily. That makes it harder to script events, I would think.
Outdoor events that are in any way lucrative are a good design that's a real draw, for me, because they cause people to gather for a short time and you can find a PUG that way, make friends, etc.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Speaking of lucrative outdoor events. FF14s FATE system was good for that. An event would pop up (kill big monster, kill number of monsters in waves, sometimes it was grabbing clickables while, lots of variety) they had a time limit, didn't take up the whole zone, and the rewards you could get were always relevant (you get level adjusted down if you're too powerful for it). Some areas if you did enough FATEs in quick succession a larger boss one would spawn.
Guilds organised FATE nights where they'd just run around and do these. It was great for leveling and everyone benefited. I would love to see something like this in CoT.
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
I think one of my favorite missions discussed is the "Don't get caught!" stealth mission. A fun mini-game alternate to Tank and Spank missions. Using Clue missions to activate a Zone event was another favorite idea batted about. It will be interesting to see what makes it into the game.
Almost reminds me of Fallout 76 missions, but hopefully much better :) But it's good to know regular street sweeping can generate tips, it's very organic
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
Yeah despite all the well-deserved negative flak about Fallout 76's lackluster launch the game itself does have some interesting features that might be applicable to CoT.
Fallout 76's Challenge system is sort of a mix of CoH's badge system (with combat, social and character based challenges that are permanently available to be earned) and a collection of daily/weekly activities all of which earn you Atoms (the game's mircotransaction store currency).
Many of the daily/weekly ones are like "earn a level while intoxicated", "find 5 scraps of copper" or even like "chew 10 sticks of bubblegum". The other "badge-like" challenges involve things like "kill 100 robots with laser weapons", "craft 100 armor mods" or "discover 20 locations in region X". Some challenges even work like Tannim was saying where earning it multiple times becomes harder (i.e. first you have to hack one computer, next time you have to hack 10, then 100 and so on).
Basically there's a huge mix of activities involved and often times they can overlap so that by doing things in a certain way you can earn credit for multiple challenges at the same time. On the other hand there's absolutely no "requirement" to actively work on any challenges - they are 100% optional. Even if you're not actively paying attention to them you'll probably still earn a few along the way just by playing the game any way you want.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I think it would be a good idea if a couple badges are so easy to obtain that everyone will get them early. This then becomes part of the "tutorial" exposing the badge and achievement systems and allowing players to peruse the badges and achievements by showing rather than by telling.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Sure thing. To continue highlighting Fallout 76 as an example they had a number of their initial challenges that were incredibly basic like "kill a creature" or "scrap a piece of armor". Many of these things were effectively unavoidable and would happen within the first few minutes of playing the game. So from that point of view they did serve as quick "introductions" for how completing those challenges worked.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]