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Update #45: The Plaza

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Redlynne
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Update #45: The Plaza

Just chipped in to the Kickstarter last night and got my first Update email concerning the artistic direction for The Plaza. Seeing the concept art, I have some feedback for the Art Team concerning this piece of the environment.

Atlas Statue was iconic for some fairly simple reasons. It was [b]**HUGE**[/b] so it was impossible to miss and easy to find from a disproportionately large share of the zone ... and it also had a relatively small "footprint" on its pedestal because it was a Human Form. This meant that the "base" of the statue occupied hardly ANY of the the pedestal area that the statue stood upon, creating an almost IDEAL Public Space for conducting the nearly ubiquitous Costume Contests that cropped up underneath the Atlas Statue with such frequency. It was a place where people could gather without a lot of obstructions to Line Of Sight within the area. Furthermore, there were no "NPC services" being rendered within the area of the Atlas Pedestal itself, aside from the Atlas Plaque (which didn't really count as a "service" per se).

So in Atlas Park you had the Atlas Statue, but Ms. Liberty was a short distance away from the Pedestal and there were NPC Vendors [i]around the periphery[/i] of it, but none of them were actually "under" the Statue proper up on the pedestal. Contrast this with the Plaza design in Nova Praetoria, where in the middle of the sunken center of the Plaza you've got Dominique providing the same services as Ms. Liberty, but in a proximity "too close" to the center of the Plaza to make it practical as a gathering place for sponsoring events. Furthermore, there were other NPCs offering services scattered around in the same area, so there wasn't enough "separation" from the NPC services like you had with the Atlas Pedestal situation to make for a Public Space that didn't have people constantly moving through it to get to somewhere else.

The concept designs that I've seen in Update 45 for the Plaza and its statue lead me to think that the current design of these features might have the unfortunate effect of not quite replicating the Public Space VALUE that the Atlas Statue had in City of Heroes. The specific issue that I want to highlight here is that a lot of the designs for the Phoenix Statue shown involve a tremendous amount of "occupation" of the central space of the Raised Plaza area ... whereas the Atlas Statue left nearly all of this area "open" in the center by virtue of being a bipedal "man" standing in a legs braced posture with his feet widely apart on the pedestal. So if you'll forgive my impudence for thinking I might have something worthwhile to contribute (never a "given" in these discussions!) ... here goes:

With respect to the Yellow Highlighted "Plaza" area ... may I suggest a circular rather than square pedestal area. Have two ramps of steps on two sides of the pedestal area (so one on the north side, and one on the south side, for example), rather than just one ramp on one side, although you'd want to orient these so that they aren't the "shortest route" for a pass through of a heavily trafficked route. So like how getting from Ms. Liberty to City Hall was a North-South trip, if you were building steps up onto the Atlas Statue Pedestal you'd want to put the steps on the East-West axis instead of the North-South axis.

So you have a raised, circular pedestal area instead of a sunken plaza area (like Nova Praetoria featured) and over it you put an open mesh of supporting metal beams which forms a structure that is strongly suggestive of the outer jeweled and filligree mesh on a Faberge Egg ... like so:

[img]http://www.onlytrinketboxes.com/productimages/show/1731-7.jpg[/img]

[img]http://static3.depositphotos.com/1007135/256/i/950/depositphotos_2562245-Faberge-egg.jpg[/img]

There's also the Real World architectural example set by the Gherkin Building in London, although you'd want something that's more "egg shaped" than "rocket shaped" like this building is ... and you'd be doing just the outer mesh of beams with no glass nor any "building" structure inside of it to be enclosed ... but this then gives you the idea for the shaping of the structural elements that go around and over the raised Plaza:

[img]http://www.venuesofdistinction.com/system/image/image/132/large/London_Skyline_2_cropped.jpg[/img]

The spacing on these structural support elements should be such that they feel (to the eye) as if they were "light and strong" without creating a sense of "enclosure" akin to being imprisoned within a cage. So large gaps between the structural members, because the idea is to be an "airy" supporting Dome rather than a proper "enclosure" of a space. These structural beams could be made using polished metallic bronze, giving them a "golden" luster, but which aren't "mirror" quality polished.

This structural support would form a dome that fully encloses the circular raised plaza in a way that looks as if most of the "egg" shape of it would be located underground, so you'd have only maybe the top 1/3rd of it or 1/4 of it visible above ground. Perched ATOP this "lacy" dome structure would be The Phoenix Statue ... which could poentially also be rendered in a polished "golden" metal such as a bronze, just like the "egg" it is perched upon [i]AND ARISING FROM[/i]. You'd want to have a pose and posture of a bird taking wing and lifting off into flight, rather than one which has landed and perched upon this public work of the city. You want something that is Uplifting that draws the eye towards the promise of freedom in the skies above, rather than a watchful avatar looking down on (and scrutinizing) the people below it (like a vulture deciding how to eat its prey).

The sort of "Artistic Theme" of the entire installation is that the people who "enter" the Phoenix Egg are the ones who "give birth" to the Phoenix, which then takes wing and carries with it their hopes and dreams ... that it is the people of the city, this City of Titans, that give the Phoenix its form and its shape, as we all "take to the skies" to Fly Free.

All of this can only be brought together and unified in a circular installation, rather than a square (or otherwise polygonal) one due to the "egg shape" of the supporting structure the Phoenix is perched upon and caught in the process of lifting off from. Under the dome of the open air mesh of beams, the Plaza area is open and clear, and large enough to hold the kinds of Atlas Park Costume Contests we all want to see become a tradition in City of Titans, with some 40+ contestants all lined up around the periphery. I'd recommend use of a "marble" stone for use on the Plaza Pedestal portion here, and for the stairs leading up to it. Also don't forget to include wheelchair ramps to go with those stairs (and possibly include skateboarding kids as NPCs playing around on them). The entire installation could be surrounded by water (like the Atlas Statue did) and fountains, which at night could be gloriously illuminated in not only whites, but also shifting colors for a truly impressive display.

Thoughts? Comments?

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Gladatoria
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I personally like the idea,

I personally like the idea, however it took me a bit to understand the egg concept, if you will....

Regardless I like the idea, and I would only hope that fire is somehow added to the statue and maybe even the area around it...? :)

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Redlynne
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If the art team wanted to do

If the art team wanted to do fire, it could be done as a "ring" around where the Phoenix Statue is lifting off from the top of the lattice work of supporting beams that forms the "egg" dome over the plaza. The fire parts of it need not be an always on sort of thing, and honestly would look more impressive at night.

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Personally I do not want to

Personally I do not want to see anything like the Atlas statue, I want something new that pertains to this game. While it is nice that you came up with something like the egg dome Red, I like the swept design of the phoenix. I can see ppl doin CC's/hangin out on and under the statue, of course one thing is that "we" do not know is how big this statue is going to be. If you look on the pic there are ppl standing on it and they look really small.

In addition I think the statue embodies more of the spirit of what is happening here, I just do not see that with a egg/dome design.

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Our Phoenix statue is in all

Our Phoenix statue is in all essence huge. If you can see the people standing under it and atop it in the concept to give a retaliative idea of scale.

We have steps and lot's of space in and around the platform for costume contests and gatherings and the like. This is one thing about atlas that we wanted to capture and took into account when designing Phoenix Plaza. Granted the base of our statue isn't as small as two feet but we are not trying to recreate atlas. We are making our own statue keeping into account that people want a place to gather.

Going by the yellow highlighted plaza area from the one design.. If you look further down I do believe you will see a whole new phoenix plaza where we kinda scrapped the first art and phoenix plaza's park area grew several times in size.

Also which I don't think is nearly as recognizable is the phoenix statue is also a water fall/fountain/reflecting pool etc and other surprises that we would like to save for the future...

We wanted a place where people could play and interact with and I think we have achieved that. :) It took a lot of work to get to this point and I think once you see it in person you will understand where we were going and see that there is plenty of space to play and have costume contests, dance parties and the like. :)

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That said.... I actually

That said.... I actually kinda like the Egg building idea...... it's so garish and jaring... so out of place, that it seems perfect on some level....
Perhaps not AT the Plaza.... but in that part of town, breaking up the skyline (home to noteworthy personages, for good or awesome?)
....have it off to the far left, when looking at City hall, so I can call it "The West Egg" :P

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Lin Chiao Feng
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IMHO, if there's an egg, it

IMHO, if there's an egg, it should get its own zone.

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GhostHack
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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

IMHO, if there's an egg, it should get its own zone.

Eh... maybe it's own district in a zone? It feels more like a paragraph then a chapter... if that makes sense...

It's value is in it's aesthetics... and while you COULD build up a whole story around it.... having an Egg-styled skyscraper dominating a whole zone would rapidly grow stale....

NOW, i do like the idea of using such a building as a sort of "symbol" within a location... something like:

Neighborhood X, on the upper west side, once housed the well to do of Atlas City. the old, elegant brownstones with their carved facades still remind us of that history. Over the years, however, as the city grew, the truely wealthy moved to neighborhood Y, in Zone D, and the nuvo riche populated their homes, leading to an age of decadence in neighborhood X. With the (events X/Y/Z) even the these interlopers saw fit to move out of the city, leaving the neighborhood to the ever expanding city center to absorb and turn into business space. This shift was not immediate but the XYZ Tower, built in 19XX, is generally considered the final chapter of the neighborhood's storied history.

then there would be little nooks and crannies in the neighborhood that spoke to it's illustrious, and seedy past. (secret gardens lovingly maintained, and old dingey speak-easys with access to the sewers)

Enemy-wise it would be populated with low-level city mobs (gang members, mobsters and the like) or perhaps villain groups that have been there for a long time (magical villain groups who have their roots in wealthy occultists, who's ceremony sites still exist in the neighborhood....which would link up to another zone where the old money, and more powerful mystics, now reside....)

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Lin Chiao Feng
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GhostHack wrote:
GhostHack wrote:

Eh... maybe it's own district in a zone? It feels more like a paragraph then a chapter... if that makes sense...
It's value is in it's aesthetics... and while you COULD build up a whole story around it.... having an Egg-styled skyscraper dominating a whole zone would rapidly grow stale....

Yep. Why is the egg there? Why an egg? Why that big? How did it get there? Whose is it, and who can get into it? etc. etc. The answers could be banal, giving us a district, or they could be deep, giving us a zone (think Rikti Crash Site).

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honestly... i thought one

honestly... i thought one trick zones like the Dam and the crash site were heavily flawed and ultimately tedious, due to the two-dimensional nature of the zone. No amount of story and plot arch could overcome the fact that there was only one reason the zone existed (it had no real purpose, outside of it's plot line... it was a set piece.)

and, so you can see my mind. Answers aren't deep. Questions, can be deep. Secrets, and the lies used to keep them, can be deep. But answers, true answers are simple and straightforward.

any place or object can be rife with story, with plot, counter-plot,and adventure... That is a separate issue...
My belief... is that a single object, like an egg-shaped skyscrapper... is INTERESTING. it is a tactile thing that struggles to be defined, like beauty, or the sublime.... and no amount of "answers" or "story" can actually ever improve on that interest.... it can, really, only make it less interesting (though, that information might make other things interesting... your "why an egg?" question, for example)

Consider, for a moment... a real world example; The Washington Monument. It is an interesting thing. But an engaging plot 'involving' it would never truely be "about" it..... the story would be about its construction, or some unknown (secret) purpose.... which is fine...
but it's no longer about the monument itself.

imagine if every mission in Atlas Park revolved around the statue of atlas..... how fast would that get old?

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Petalstorm wrote:
Petalstorm wrote:

Also which I don't think is nearly as recognizable is the phoenix statue is also a water fall/fountain/reflecting pool etc and other surprises that we would like to save for the future...

BTW, I am counting on the falling water to be lit by shifting colorful lights every game night. I was filled by that desire as soon as I saw the drawings.

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If a giant egg is used in

If a giant egg is used in some fashion than it shouldn't be a skyscrapper, it should be a real egg. Then the story would be what in the world is in that egg and when will it hatch?

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Tarakas wrote:
Tarakas wrote:

If a giant egg is used in some fashion than it shouldn't be a skyscrapper, it should be a real egg. Then the story would be what in the world is in that egg and when will it hatch?

Don't get too excited: it's just the gobltygooker ;)

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Project WASP wrote:
Project WASP wrote:

Tarakas wrote:
If a giant egg is used in some fashion than it shouldn't be a skyscrapper, it should be a real egg. Then the story would be what in the world is in that egg and when will it hatch?

Don't get too excited: it's just the gobltygooker ;)

Gobbledegooker, from gobbledegook meaning nonsense.

As I didn't have cable and only had access to the PPV's via renting them, I was aghast to learn that there was this big long buildup for the Gooker. I have no idea how someone managed to think that'd be a worthwhile concept. :P

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But wouldn't that pose the

But wouldn't that pose the question...

What came first, the Phoenix or the Egg? (Purely punning here of course)

I happen to like the current drawings the way they are now, with the much larger central park. But I love the egg-style building idea for an actual building in a zone as well, I just don't see it as being a "central" building. Perhaps someone will "purchase" the rights to name a building, and the Developers can make it Egg-shaped :)

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