Ultimate Batman

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Criminus
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Ultimate Batman

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Fireheart
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That's stupid. It says so,

That's stupid. It says so, right on the label.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Criminus
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Its what I've started posting

Its what I've started posting when a Batman fanboy turns up in a discussion, insisting that Bats is bulletproof and unbeatable with prep and all the rest of that nonsense.

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whiteperegrine
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bats, imo, is one of the most

bats, imo, is one of the most overhyped heroes out there. the dude, while extremely well trained, really should be dropped like a bad habit when facing off against superpowered baddies...much less multiple superpowered baddies at one time.

sorry....my inside voice gained control there for a sec....

Brand X
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Agreed WP. Though I think he

Agreed WP. Though I think he's only over-hyped because they want him to be one of the top of the JLU and their not content with him just staying at the tower and telling them what to do.

Batman is like the X-Men. Great when in his own universe. Not that I think he's terrible in the DC as a whole, but he just wouldn't be THAT awesome :p I don't care about his prep time...without the right rock, he's not taking out Superman and that's not tactics when a twelve year old could take out Superman the same way :p

Criminus
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For those facing the argument

For those facing the argument "Bats can beat anyone with prep".
Mention the crime syndicate and 'Power Ring'. Batman had prep to beat any type of lantern, ie, other lantern rings. He thus used a yellow 'sinestro' ring to face down Power-Ring.
(Power Ring is effectivly a green lantern, the only difference, is he is magic instead of technology, much like the original green lantern).

Result? Batman lost the fight. With all the preparation in the world, Batman lost.

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Halae
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I concluded a long time ago

I concluded a long time ago that DC does better villains than heroes, and Marvel does better heroes than villains. Batman and the Joker versus Spider-man and the Green Goblin, for example. There's definitely heroes in Marvel that are mostly normal but keep up - Hawkeye, for instance - but they're never really made into something nonsensical like what happened with Batman and his numerous proteges.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Hatut Zeraze
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I really enjoy that stupid

I really enjoy that stupid Batman link. I do wish, though, that the video would have given us more than Adam West. I think Christian Bale singing that song would have been even more funny.

islandtrevor72
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I used to collect every

I used to collect every Spiderman title (where there was 5 titles) and the Hulk...including those ill fated 2099 versions. There was a period where the Hulk was both smart and strong (professor Hulk) and he crossed over into one Spiderman title. Spidey and Hulk were investigating a warehouse when Doc Octopus jumps out and proceeds to toss the Hulk all around the room until Spiderman chased him off. The next issue of the Hulk was about the Hulk going back to Las Vegas and helping a friend from his Joe Fixit days. In the lobby of the casino you see Doc Octopus trying to bully a Blackjack dealer. He's screaming about how he tossed the Hulk around and how he is the greatest villain in the world. Hulk walks over and flicks him with one finger sending him flying while saying 'You sucker punched me in the warehouse".

The reason I told that story was to illustrate that how different writers will treat different characters. Batman is mostly plausable in his own title (he get slapped around quite a bit) but in the Justice League he is written to be infallible and near invincible. Neither is wrong but they are not exactly the same character....just like The Hulk in his own title was not the same one who crossed over in the Spiderman title.

Personally I like the JL Batman just as much as the solo title Batman.
I think the perfectly cast Mark Hamill as the Joker said it best in this clip at the 2:25 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpqt9TE_H0I

Criminus
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You raise an interesting

You raise an interesting point Trevor, writers seam to use 'other' characters as fodder for the one they are focused on, and this leads to continuity and cannon problems.
Lets imagine a Batman and Spiderman crossover, so of course while they are going to be a team in the end, the story has to start with them fighting.
In the DC version of the comic, Bats' superior training, gadgets, wealth, etc (and the writers deciding he had prep time, for no reason), sees Batman winning.
In the Marvel version, Spideys spider-sense alerts him to all of Bats's tricks, and his superhuman strength and agility sees him easily beat the Bat.

Its like Stan Lee said (on his youtube channel), who wins? The writer decides.

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islandtrevor72
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Thats just it....the 'Who

Thats just it....the 'Who Wins?' argument is pointless. And not just because of multiple writers.

Most times the 'Who wins?' is decided by the needs of the story. In your example of Power Ring vs Batman.... the story probably needed Batman to lose to illustrate some other aspect of the story. Just like when Batman beat Superman in DKR...it wasn't because Batman should win it was to show how driven and obsessed Batman is....that he isn't that 'mere mortal' that Luthor in the clip thinks him to be.

A long running joke character in Marvel is Stiltman, a largely forgettable villain. But yet he pretty much shows up Spiderman anytime he appears. The running joke now decides who wins that one....Sabertooth vs Wolverine....Sabertooth shows used to show up on Logans birthday and beat him almost to death. Yet other times Wolverine has bested Sabertooth.

It makes these 'who wins?' discussions a futile endeavor as there cant be a general agreement much less a definitive decision.

For my money...Batman always wins. Not because of planning, gadgets, skill, Alfred or the Batmobile.....not even because of the shark repellent Bat Spray (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJlHjf_E--4), simply because its cooler that way.

Demrius
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I seen where people were

I seen where people were saying that bats could beat doomsday...*Shudder.*

--Formerly Jorortis--

Note: Jorortis is still a character of mine and is still going to be in the super group, not Demirus, at least not yet...

Pengy
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He's rich. He just has to

He's rich. He just has to hope the writer can be bribed.

Criminus
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Demrius wrote:
Demrius wrote:

I seen where people were saying that bats could beat doomsday...*Shudder.*

I think I can go oone better than that. I once read a post on Batman's ablities and character. It was really well written, intelligent, even insightfull.
Except for 1 line.
Right in the middle of the article it said, and I kid-thee-not (paraphrasing) "Batman often beats powered characters, thus proves that humanity is better than powers" (or words to that effect).

Proves....PROVES!

ITS A COMIC, ITS MADE UP, ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Nyktos
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Criminus wrote:
Criminus wrote:

Demrius wrote:
I seen where people were saying that bats could beat doomsday...*Shudder.*

I think I can go oone better than that. I once read a post on Batman's ablities and character. It was really well written, intelligent, even insightfull.
Except for 1 line.
Right in the middle of the article it said, and I kid-thee-not (paraphrasing) "Batman often beats powered characters, thus proves that humanity is better than powers" (or words to that effect).
Proves....PROVES!
ITS A COMIC, ITS MADE UP, ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is also pretty stupid because Batman is not a everyday human. Instead he's pretty much the best you can give out of a human physically and mentally.

He's one of the exceptions of humanity. Not a symbol of humanity. Don't know why people think he could beat every single power out there.

Formerly known as Bleddyn

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islandtrevor72
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Quote:
Quote:

I think I can go oone better than that. I once read a post on Batman's ablities and character. It was really well written, intelligent, even insightfull.
Except for 1 line.
Right in the middle of the article it said, and I kid-thee-not (paraphrasing) "Batman often beats powered characters, thus proves that humanity is better than powers" (or words to that effect).

Proves....PROVES!

ITS A COMIC, ITS MADE UP, ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
.

If this is from the same article I read (on Cracked I think) the point wasn't humanity is better than powers but the will and drive of an individual (such as Batman) is more important than powers.

If its not the same article then I might lean towards that interpretation as people will sometimes mis-speak in an effort to be poignant. Benefit of the doubt...especially if the rest of the article was insightful.

Bleddyn wrote:

He's one of the exceptions of humanity. Not a symbol of humanity. Don't know why people think he could beat every single power out there..

Its the evolution of the popular character through generations of fans. New writers will add to the character usually highlighting an aspect of the character they like. Then new fans read the comic and become invested in those embellishments. As many of those embellishments are how Batman is awesome it makes it harder and harder for Batman to be written as anything but.

Batman fans are no different than any other fan base really in that they see their hero in the best possible light.
This picture could easily say Superman, or Wolverine or Alex Trebek.

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My friend Chris is a big

My friend Chris is a big Batman fan, and my god if won't shut up about how great Batman is at every turn.

Come to think of it, I cant recall, (I cant really read comics, around here.) Anyone hiring someone to kill Bruce Wayne, specifically, not like a whole group of people at a ball, or anything, but ya know, just knocks on Bruce door dressed as a mailman, and shoot him in the everything.

--Formerly Jorortis--

Note: Jorortis is still a character of mine and is still going to be in the super group, not Demirus, at least not yet...