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Trying to decide about donating

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herogamer
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Trying to decide about donating

Hi all,
I am trying to get some information for myself and my friends to help us decide if we will be comfortable installing the game software. I just learned about this project recently even though I had played and supported COH from back in Beta. Very excited to have fans and not money only people making a game that can focus on fun and not on how much money it will make.

Please help to answer a few questions about the vision for the game and how it will handle security.

Some companies have implemented Digital Rights Management (DRM) or force using programs that compromise computer security that are in my opinion are as invasive as many viruses.

It may be stated in the forums, (I have not found it yet) how you plan to handle security and patching. If so. please point me at the correct posts. The method this will be handled will probably determine if my friends and I decide to play. (One friend said that if it requires the steam client he will not play.) Even if the answer is something that I would not be comfortable using on my computer, I may still donate because I really like what you are working on.Herogamer

Terlin
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I'm stretching myself here a

I'm stretching myself here a bit, and, hopefully, one of the Tech guys will weigh in, but it not our intention to cause problems inside the computer systems of players. So, I fully expect we will study (and I'd be surprised if we haven't already) that issue carefully before any decisions are made.

Its possible we will look at Steam, but I doubt we will only provide it in that context. We don't want to restrict access: quite the opposite. That is one of the reasons for developing a Mac client. We may even include a Linux client if time permits.

I'll leave more direct answers for the Tech department.

-

Terlin

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Justice Blues
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They have stated that the

They have stated that the game will be available for purchase, with a month of VIP/Premium/whatever it's called included, then it will be FTP. I think they are shooting for the same type of set up that COH had at the end. But they are actually a long time from setting the details in stone at this point. It will be at least 2 years before the game can be expected, after more fundraising and lots of work.

doctor tyche
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Our "Digital Rights

Our "Digital Rights Management" is straightforward: If you don't have an account with the game unlocked you can't play on our servers. That's pretty much it. The usual anti-cheating systems you find in Unreal based games are there as well.

And we are not going "Steam Exclusive" either.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

herogamer
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Thank you all for responses

Thank you all for responses on this and appreciate you taking the time to address my concerns.
Really appreciate that decision.
Makes me feel good that you have thought about this and what you decided.
Thanks. -Herogamer

chase
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Not to be confused with DRM,

Not to be confused with DRM, what you may be thinking of are some of the anti-botting software that some of the bigger studios have implemented. There are rather sophisticated tools out there that allow you to automate mouse movements and keystrokes based on certain conditions on the screen or in a specific memory location, and many of these are sophisticated enough to allow minimally-manned continuous gold farming (they're often built off of tools that are useful to allow gamers of limited motor control to play a game that may be otherwise too twitchy or keystroke-sensitive)

Since these programs run outside the gamespace and would appear similar to user actions as far as the game client is concerned, many studios have resorted to using programs that continually scan your active memory, looking for any program that would qualify as this, and kick you out/ban you, etc if they see that kind of stuff. Since its running and monitoring your computer's activity (and in some cases, the programs continued to run after the game was logged out-- as part of the 'launcher' in your system tray), they're extremely controversial.

While there has been no official statement on these, I would have to say that from every bit of evidence provided, this would be against much of what MWM stands for. They're also rather expensive to produce, often need catered to each game, and of questionable merit, so I don't anticipate it being an priority for here even if it wasn't against MWM's credo.

I think we will need to have some form of 'bot protection, but there are techniques that can be built into the game and tests that can be done server side that don't invade one's privacy, along with design considerations that can make the idea of botting/ farming/gold-selling less effective.

PseudoCool
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hey man.. leave the farming

hey man.. leave the farming out of it! :) There's something about the senseless fun of grabbing the same mission over and over again and farming the tar out of it for credits/influence/money for yourself and your guild/clanmates. Now that being said, a system that keeps you from gaining any XP after doing a mission more than say.. twice.. in a day I'd agree with. And I totally agree about not having the gold-selling in any game, it get's CRAZY ANNOYING!

I'm so PseudoCool, I even gave the definition!

Terlin
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While I can't say exactly

While I can't say exactly what our response will be for goldfarmers, we will require purchase of the basic game to play: so, B2P initially. People found violating our terms of service (for example, goldfarmers) will be banned, and will need to re-buy the game to continue. Of course, we will be open to discuss such cases to maintain fairness, but the idea here is to make activities like goldfarming unprofitable.

In the time until Launch, we will be studying methods to limit and identify this type of activity. It may not be possible to have 100% prevention, but we aim to make it painful.

-

Terlin

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Redlynne
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Terlin wrote:
Terlin wrote:

we aim to make it painful.

GO TEAM!!!

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chase
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PseudoCool wrote:
PseudoCool wrote:

hey man.. leave the farming out of it! :) There's something about the senseless fun of grabbing the same mission over and over again and farming the tar out of it for credits/influence/money for yourself and your guild/clanmates. Now that being said, a system that keeps you from gaining any XP after doing a mission more than say.. twice.. in a day I'd agree with. And I totally agree about not having the gold-selling in any game, it get's CRAZY ANNOYING!

Sorry, I keep forgetting that some people have adopted the term "farm" for something realy benign like this. When farming is used in the context of RMT resellers, it really isn't the kind of thing you're defending. It's repeatable simple content, yes, of such ease at automation that one person may be able to multibox a dozen or so PC's into 24/7 shifts, so dominating a region that others can't enjoy the content.

Using the "farm" analogs, its the difference between someone's home garden and a full-fledged factory farm.

doctor tyche
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If someone *really* wants to

If someone *really* wants to run the same mission over and over... well... is it a farm, or someone who really likes beating up Victor?

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Lin Chiao Feng
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'Cause you know Victor's

'Cause you [i]know[/i] Victor's askin' for a thrashin'.

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Wanders
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chase wrote:
chase wrote:

Sorry, I keep forgetting that some people have adopted the term "farm" for something realy benign like this. When farming is used in the context of RMT resellers, it really isn't the kind of thing you're defending. It's repeatable simple content, yes, of such ease at automation that one person may be able to multibox a dozen or so PC's into 24/7 shifts, so dominating a region that others can't enjoy the content.

If they were doing the same thing in an instanced mission (so that they aren't dominating a region), would you still think it would be something that would need to be protected against? I'm mainly asking since, for CoH, it seemed (especially after AE and SSK gave farmers a lot more control in setting up their farm situation) the impact of farming was not as obvious (though presumably it impacted the game economy), so I wasn't sure myself how damaging it should be considered.

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AmbiDreamer
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PseudoCool wrote:
PseudoCool wrote:

A system that keeps you from gaining any XP after doing a mission more than say.. twice.. in a day I'd agree with.

I have a feeling we'd see a lot of complaints about that system, though.

I'd rather have a system that ramps down *all* of the rewards on a mission from 'overuse' in a short time period. With pick-up (or regular) groups, it's easy to imagine running through the same mission more than two times without preplanning it. Especially if it's a good mission. And I wouldn't personally be fond of seeing a system that gives full 'monetary' reward for the tenth run of it in a row yet no experience points at all for the third run in a twenty four hour period.

Buut.. maybe that's just me.

Longtime City of Heroes player, longtime writer. :) Working in Nebraska.
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Lin Chiao Feng
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I'm with Ambi. Degradation

I'm with Ambi. Degradation and diminishing returns are always better than hard barriers. You might not think of a good reason to do something three times in a row [i]now,[/i] but I guarantee you the players will find one. Or several.

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Xander Cross
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AmbiDreamer wrote:
AmbiDreamer wrote:

PseudoCool wrote:
A system that keeps you from gaining any XP after doing a mission more than say.. twice.. in a day I'd agree with.

I have a feeling we'd see a lot of complaints about that system, though.
I'd rather have a system that ramps down *all* of the rewards on a mission from 'overuse' in a short time period. With pick-up (or regular) groups, it's easy to imagine running through the same mission more than two times without preplanning it. Especially if it's a good mission. And I wouldn't personally be fond of seeing a system that gives full 'monetary' reward for the tenth run of it in a row yet no experience points at all for the third run in a twenty four hour period.
Buut.. maybe that's just me.

A system that gives no xp but still grants 'monetary' compensation... if meant to deter "gold farming" or whatever, wouldn't be a very good system. it would stop my level 15 from getting another level, whilst allowing that max level "whoever" who doesn't need XP to keep racking up the coin.

That said. I don't personally like the idea of lessening rewards period. Some days I may feel like "farming" a certain mission with certain enemy groups for a badge while trying to level up a character at the same time. other days I may just want to team repeatedly for 'Atta' or 'Frostfire' because I haven't done them in over a year and I'm feeling nostalgic.

Now, I don't particularly mind if there's some time gating on END rewards for SPECIFIC content (see incarnate system in CoX) as long as there is sufficient OTHER content where I can earn the same thing.

Something like Questionite in Champions Online. You can EARN as much Ore as you want, but it needs to be refined into actual questionite. You can only refine so much per day, per character, and there is a Vet reward that increases the amount you can refine per day by 100% (doubles it). It allows you to still make progress (earning) but you aren't able to reap the rewards of your progress for a number of days. I find it pleasing to be able to earn towards a goal, and at the same time frustrated because if I earn what I need in 4-5 days... I need to wait 9-10 or more before I can actually SPEND what I earned, AND I have to log in every day to refine the stuff...

However you can also get around the caps by earning/refining on multiple characters, and then transferring to one to spend it. so in a way, it sort of encourages dividing time among alts. Something like that should apply to some content/rewards... but not ALL of it.

Regards,
D. A. Cross
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CoX: @Mystic Cross ; @Pareidolia // CO: @Deadman-X ; @Citymystic // CoT: @Cross ; @D.A.Cross