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Travel powers? How we want them?

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ManofManliness
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Travel powers? How we want them?

As far as I know there isnt a confirmed way how travel powers will happen, is there? Thinking about super speed it can be a primary power for sure, like flash, but there may be heroes that can use it as not combat-focused but still need it to travel. How could they handle it? (Also tunneling travel power from CO was so cool I want it)

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I believe you will be ably to

I believe you will be ably to pick travel powers up as Tertiary powers - actually I THINK we might get one for free? IIRC confirmed for launch are Super Speed, Flight, Teleportation and Super Jump. They are looking into others like "Parkour/Acrobatics," "Digging/Tunneling" and "Swinging/Grapple" but the four big ones they definitely want in on opening day.

Combat use of travel powers will likely be via tertiary power sets with the appropriate animation/skin; i.e. you can make a ranged AoE attack look like a speedster or teleporter zipping/popping around and striking targets.

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I also remember that we will

I also remember that we will get one free travel power, right at character creation, that gets better as we level up. And that we could pick more, as a tertiary power, I imagine.

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Lutan wrote:
Lutan wrote:

I also remember that we will get one free travel power, right at character creation, that gets better as we level up. And that we could pick more, as a tertiary power, I imagine.

I hope the free one is FLY.
Its the Slowest, so once they see SuperSpeed ot TP, they will WANT to try getting around Faster, and buy them. ;)

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I hope we get to pick.

I hope we get to pick.
most of my characters don't fly and it would really change a lot of them.

by the way, flying may be slower than super speed but since it can ignore obstacles on the ground it's often faster
and it keeps you out of range of melee attacks while allowing you to still be a blaster, so it's still incredibly powerful.

Teleporting was always the worst one, since you have to see where you're going, it's very slow and disorienting
Plus if you can't fly, teleporting into the air to look around is pretty bad.
But if you add map clicking teleportation, it could actually be the best travel power even if you don't give it too much range.

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I had fun TP'ing through

I had fun TP'ing through zones full of Fog, with building getting in the way. :)
it was a mad combination of movements to tilt the view and TP away to the side before I fell, Since I was stingy and never got Fly or even Hover if i already had one travel power, TP in this case.

If Hover was inherent like it was for PB's (later i think), maybe i would have gotten TP on a few more ALT's. :/

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You might've enjoyed the

You might've enjoyed the challenge,
and of course whatever is fun for you
but that didn't make the power useful
and it usually wasn't
Teleport also needs an ability in the set that teleports you directly behind a selected target.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

I hope the free one is FLY.
Its the Slowest....

hey now...I loved fly. it provided the perfect time to do some AFC flyin while I ran for a refill on my coffee! :)

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Just a coiple of

Just a coiple of clarifications / corrections:

Powers will be a separate choice from Primary; Secondary, and Tertiary power slots.

You will get a choice of travel power at character creation / level 1.

The "big 4" Super Speed, Jump, Flight, Teleportation are a certainty for launch. We know Acrobatics needs to be there too for the "non-powered" option as well. Other travel powers will follow.

All travel powers will (at some point) have different animation themes just like regular powers.

It is possible to include travel-movement themed animations in attack sets (super speed to foe, hit tem, return to starting position).

There will be a tertiary set based on Combat Mobility (powers that actually move the character to perform an action leaving them at the new location). This tertiary will also have customizable animations.


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YAY! Tannim You're our Hero!

YAY! Tannim
You're our Hero!

but will teleport get map clicking?

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

YAY! Tannim
You're our Hero!
but will teleport get map clicking?

That could be a Vets power, if you've been a subscriber in any form for 6+ month? :)

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I am certainly going to enjoy

I am certainly going to enjoy the parkour animation option for acrobatics then....

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

You will get a choice of travel power at character creation / level 1.

Glad to hear that we'll have a choice for our free level 1 travel power. I know this may sound strange but will one of those choices be "none"?

I never personally created a CoH character that didn't eventually have a travel power but I remember there were always people out there who, as part of their character concepts, didn't have any official travel power. They specifically choose to get by with only temp travel powers or other alternatives (like SG portals, etc.). Again it may sound weird but I could see a legitimate RP choice for not having any travel powers or at the very least not being forced to take an "automatic" travel power at level 1.

CoT should be all about having as much power choice freedom as possible. Ironically being "forced" to take a travel power at level 1 would work against that general idea if there's no way to opt out of it.

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Lothic, the better way to

Lothic, the better way to handle the "free" Travel Power at Level 1 would be to give the option to Defer the choice until later. That way, you've still got the option to pick a "free" Travel Power at any time if you change your mind later about wanting to have a Travel Power at all. Putting in a choice of "None" means that the option gets "burned" and can't be re-chosen later without a respec. It would seem to me that a better idea would be to "bank" the choice of a "free" Travel Power for later and if that choice never gets made then you have EFFECTIVELY chosen "None" simply by not choosing ... but in so doing you haven't locked yourself out of the opportunity to choose.

Also known as Different Sameness™. ^_~

It's these kinds of extremely subtle variations that can have extremely powerful implications for how games "work" under the hood. Even though the end result is exactly the same (ie. no "free" Travel Power selected), the implications of the underlying structure for WHY that is the case is quite different. Your way locks off and prevents future opportunities. My way keeps those future opportunities available, even if they aren't made use of. Same results, but the means and method is quite different, leading to very different possibilities and impacts on decisions elsewhere.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Lothic, the better way to handle the "free" Travel Power at Level 1 would be to give the option to Defer the choice until later. That way, you've still got the option to pick a "free" Travel Power at any time if you change your mind later about wanting to have a Travel Power at all. Putting in a choice of "None" means that the option gets "burned" and can't be re-chosen later without a respec. It would seem to me that a better idea would be to "bank" the choice of a "free" Travel Power for later and if that choice never gets made then you have EFFECTIVELY chosen "None" simply by not choosing ... but in so doing you haven't locked yourself out of the opportunity to choose.
Also known as Different Sameness™. ^_~
It's these kinds of extremely subtle variations that can have extremely powerful implications for how games "work" under the hood. Even though the end result is exactly the same (ie. no "free" Travel Power selected), the implications of the underlying structure for WHY that is the case is quite different. Your way locks off and prevents future opportunities. My way keeps those future opportunities available, even if they aren't made use of. Same results, but the means and method is quite different, leading to very different possibilities and impacts on decisions elsewhere.

Sure I'd have no problem with being able to "indefinitely defer" the level 1 travel power choice if the Devs would allow for that. As you say that would let a player effectively have the "none" choice while still letting them possibly choose for real later on.

The key thing then becomes making sure the game isn't somehow geared on the assumption that everyone has a travel power when in fact some people might not have one. I don't think that would be an extreme problem but it's always a possibility,

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Teleporting was always the worst one, since you have to see where you're going, it's very slow and disorienting

I realize that not everyone liked teleport. It certainly had a learning curve and skills that needed to be learned to use it. However, it was not slow.

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The "big 4" seems

The "big 4" seems satisfactory for launch of the game, I hope all four are free to choose and future powers cost, but its their choice ofcourse.

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

TheMightyPaladin wrote:
Teleporting was always the worst one, since you have to see where you're going, it's very slow and disorienting
I realize that not everyone liked teleport. It certainly had a learning curve and skills that needed to be learned to use it. However, it was not slow.

Yeah I wouldn't really label any of the CoH travel powers as "best" or "worst". They all had their pros and cons.

The only problem I had with Teleporting was that it was a bit "labor intensive". You had to keep actively paying attention to exactly where you were going during each "hop". Fly might have been relatively slow but it did have the saving grace of being able to work it so that you could AFK for a minute or two while still moving towards your intended destination.

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I'd like teleport to be based

I'd like teleport to be based on vector and time spent casting (Hold down teleport for more distance). Much more user friendly for some differently able players.

I've noted my issue with map clicking. The teleport ui, when cast, could show an indicator of where the character would port as a shaded area only the caster can see

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
You will get a choice of travel power at character creation / level 1.

Glad to hear that we'll have a choice for our free level 1 travel power. I know this may sound strange but will one of those choices be "none"?
I never personally created a CoH character that didn't eventually have a travel power but I remember there were always people out there who, as part of their character concepts, didn't have any official travel power. They specifically choose to get by with only temp travel powers or other alternatives (like SG portals, etc.). Again it may sound weird but I could see a legitimate RP choice for not having any travel powers or at the very least not being forced to take an "automatic" travel power at level 1.
CoT should be all about having as much power choice freedom as possible. Ironically being "forced" to take a travel power at level 1 would work against that general idea if there's no way to opt out of it.

Perhaps my statement should have been "you get the option to choose a travel power at level 1 during character creation". The phrasing option to choose indicative that it isn't a requirement to complete character creation.

Though I am curious to see how many people differ to not pick a travel power when we end up offering a diverse selection of animations to provide for all kinds of concepts.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Though I am curious to see how many people differ to not pick a travel power when we end up offering a diverse selection of animations to provide for all kinds of concepts.

For what it's worth I would safely assume the number of people who perfer not to have a travel power at level 1 will be fairly small. But again for the sake of offering the most selection freedom possilble having the "choice" of none is just as legitimate as any other and it's good to see you have accounted for that possibility.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

For what it's worth I would safely assume the number of people who perfer not to have a travel power at level 1 will be fairly small. But again for the sake of offering the most selection freedom possilble having the "choice" of none is just as legitimate as any other and it's good to see you have accounted for that possibility.

If the 'free' travel power could be swapped for 'free' Enhanced Senses or Self-contained Breathing (should that ever become a thing) I think quite a few more people would defer getting a travel power. They'd probably still be a minority, because as I imagine the options, I picture a travel power being more powerful/useful than the others by quite a bit.

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I'd like teleport to be based on vector and time spent casting (Hold down teleport for more distance). Much more user friendly for some differently able players.

Okay ... now THERE'S a thought! Let me see, what can I do with these LEGO pieces?

In City of Heroes there was no Charging game mechanic. You couldn't click and hold to get a charge bar so as to get "variable control" on what a Power actually DID. And you'd need to have something akin to that in order to achieve "Depth Control" for how far you wanted to be able to Teleport. Lacking such a feature, the best that City of Heroes could do was to just Teleport you in a Line of Sight out to the maximum distance (or blocking obstacle, whichever came first). This is why the Teleport Rings always rode along surfaces if the destination was closer than maximum range, so as to indicate where you'd go before you went.

BUT ...

If you've got a Charging mechanic built into the game where you can do a Click & Hold until reaching the desired level of "oomph" to what you're doing, you can actually get to a means of controlling depth/distance on a Power that works like Teleport! You could even run the Teleport distance as a log function to get the seconds of Charging needed to go that far.

0 sec charge = 1 meter
1 sec charge = 10 meters
2 sec charge = 100 meters
3 sec charge = 1000 meters
4 sec charge = 10,000 meters

Now, obviously, the Teleport Power itself is going to have a maximum range (which can be Enhanced) which will then set an upper limit on how far your Teleport can go AND on how long you can Charge before "going the distance" that your Power can reach.

As far as the UI is concerned, we could stick with the "pulsing rings" FX like City of Heroes used, or do a "ghostly Davinchi Man" ... or whatever ... that will recede away from camera at logarithmic speed as the Player holds down the button until reaching (approximately) the desired distance, or hitting a Line of Sight blocking surface. When the Player releases the button, thereby ending the Charge function, the PC gets teleported to the destination location.

The one thing you're not going to be able to get away from is the notion that Teleportation SOMEHOW should not be "twitchy" in its operational aspects. There just really isn't any way to make free range Teleportation "work" in a way that doesn't involve some sort of "twitchy" aspects of User Control. It's just the nature of the beast. Kind of like how round marbles tend to make lousy cutting tools because they lack a sharp edge.

However, being able to give Player's a means and method of "depth control" over Teleportation would be an incredibly massive advance in functionality. What would be even cooler is if the Animation time following a charge up to Teleport was VERY FAST INDEED ... since you'd have already spent time charging up the Power in order to Teleport as far as you did.

AND ... because the scaling for distance is logarithmic, if you're Teleporting for Travel then you're better off using the largest charge durations that you can get. 2x1 sec gets you 10+10=20 meters of distance ... while 1x2 sec gets you 100 meters of distance. This means that the Teleportation Power can be used really quickly for Tactical Mobility as well as really slowly for Strategic Travel.

Win-win-win-win.

Quick ... somebody figure out why this would be a terrible idea ...


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You would have to set up

You would have to set up teleports to avoid going into buildings and natural features

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Travel powers? How we want

Travel powers? How we want them? = to be fast

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Um, Brighellac?

Um, Brighellac? Teleportation would still be subject to Line of Sight rules ... so buildings and natural features would still be something you can't Teleport through ...


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Brighellac wrote:
Brighellac wrote:

You would have to set up teleports to avoid going into buildings and natural features

Redlynne wrote:

Um, Brighellac? Teleportation would still be subject to Line of Sight rules ... so buildings and natural features would still be something you can't Teleport through ...

Red, I'm going to assume that Brighellac is referring to my suggestion of map click teleporting which would Not be subject to line of sight.

So map clicking onto an object could teleport you on top of it unless it's too tall then you could get a message saying target out of range.

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By choosing the vector you

By choosing the vector you can still go up the Zaxis.

It won't aids twitch combat too much as your avatar still moves at normal spewed until the cast is activated (not invisible flight). The control would be concise at short distances and not so controlled at long distances.

One issue is how difficult multi-vector porting could be, but overall the impact is one that seems fair in terms of function. It's still a getaway power but at a time cost.

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Not until you unlock Teleport

Not until you unlock Teleport Rank 3:
"Rank 3 allows you to TP through buildings/obstacles. If the range of your TP does not exit into an available space you will be TP'd to the last available space between your originating point and the obstacle."
OP = originating point
X = TP Max Range
Building = depth of obstacle
Y = where you will end up

[OP] [X]
[OP] [Y][Building]

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Um, Brighellac? Teleportation would still be subject to Line of Sight rules ... so buildings and natural features would still be something you can't Teleport through ...

Maybe CoT should rethink this. :/

Allow TP through buildings/ Some walls, etc... (as long as its limited), and show a X-ray'ish shaded world when you click the TP power.
Or if TP is Held down for a seconds longer at least. :P
Or if you purchase the Environment Powers or whatever they're called, it also Affects how TP looks (or how it works)?

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Hmm that is a interesting

Hmm that is a interesting idea for teleportation.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

You could even run the Teleport distance as a log function to get the seconds of Charging needed to go that far.
0 sec charge = 1 meter
1 sec charge = 10 meters
2 sec charge = 100 meters
3 sec charge = 1000 meters
4 sec charge = 10,000 meters

That's an EXPONENTIAL curve.

And it will get out of hand almost immediately. Anyone without twitch reflexes will be overshooting constantly... by a LOT.

You'll be much, much better off with a linear or log growth rate. Further, effective ground speed can't be so much higher than other travel powers that Teleport becomes the Only Reasonable Choice.

Redlynne wrote:

Now, obviously, the Teleport Power itself is going to have a maximum range (which can be Enhanced) which will then set an upper limit on how far your Teleport can go AND on how long you can Charge before "going the distance" that your Power can reach.

I'm betting the enhancement rate won't be an exponential curve. x2-like at most. I'd prefer an actual log curve, myself (nature-like diminishing returns):

  • 0 sec charge = aborted
  • 1 sec charge = 100 meters
  • 2 sec charge = 200 meters
  • 3 sec charge = 260 meters
  • 4 sec charge = 300 meters

As for UI, I'd have the cursor turn into a circle, with a marker that moves clockwise as it charges. Once around = max range. And have an option for a distance to appear under it. Or go with the CoX-style 3D depth circles, but it'll get tricky when they move out of draw range.

Redlynne wrote:

The one thing you're not going to be able to get away from is the notion that Teleportation SOMEHOW should not be "twitchy" in its operational aspects. There just really isn't any way to make free range Teleportation "work" in a way that doesn't involve some sort of "twitchy" aspects of User Control. It's just the nature of the beast. Kind of like how round marbles tend to make lousy cutting tools because they lack a sharp edge.

One way to reduce the twitchiness would be to have the range growth work in steps, maybe adjustable steps. Three steps per second at most.

Redlynne wrote:

Quick ... somebody figure out why this would be a terrible idea ...

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

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As for map click

As for map click teleportation, you can just run it the other way: once you click, the (interruptible) charge time is based on distance, after which you teleport in one hop.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Anyone without twitch reflexes will be overshooting constantly... by a LOT.

I can see it now...

Ticket #: 20170401-1503
Type: Petition
Player: James Murphy
Character: Louis Leadfoot
Message: I was using the Teleport power and my mouse button stuck. By the time I unjammed it, my character had teleported way too far. Please transfer my character from the European server back to the North American server. Thank you.

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LOL

LOL

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Actually, if you could

Actually, if you could teleport 10,000 meters with a 4 second charge up time, that would ... in effect ... wind up being close to a Map Teleport simply in terms of reach (albeit not in terms of accuracy, perhaps). The other fun thing is that at a height of 2 meters (ie. "man height") the curvature of the Earth is such that you should only be able to see out to ~7000 meters anyway, to give you an idea of horizon line limitations. Not that I figure Titan City is going to be constructed on a curved surface or anything, but just to give a sense of scale.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Actually, if you could teleport 10,000 meters with a 4 second charge up time, that would ... in effect ... wind up being close to a Map Teleport simply in terms of reach (albeit not in terms of accuracy, perhaps).

And with a 6.8 second charge up time, I can pick up a new BMW at the factory. 10t exponential growth gets out of hand fast.

Redlynne wrote:

The other fun thing is that at a height of 2 meters (ie. "man height") the curvature of the Earth is such that you should only be able to see out to ~7000 meters anyway, to give you an idea of horizon line limitations. Not that I figure Titan City is going to be constructed on a curved surface or anything, but just to give a sense of scale.

IMHO practical teleporting is going to be a lot like it was in CoX: get altitude first, then move horizontally. So curvature shouldn't be that big of a deal. Aim, however...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Anyone without twitch reflexes will be overshooting constantly... by a LOT.

I can see it now...
Ticket #: 20170401-1503Type: PetitionPlayer: James MurphyCharacter: Louis LeadfootMessage: I was using the Teleport power and my mouse button stuck. By the time I unjammed it, my character had teleported way too far. Please transfer my character from the European server back to the North American server. Thank you.

Please complete the Moon Base expansion; my character has nothing to do.

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I think the control factor

I think the control factor has the DANGER of being twitchy, but I think overall it's just like super-speed Where your character isn't moving until you let go of the cast button. The speed and control of the UI are a fine line between "accessible" and "twitch"

I say that because many people said the same thing about swinging in Champions Online (that it was "too twitch" in comparison to other travel powers) but it turned out well IMHO

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I dont support line of sight

I dont support line of sight rule for teleportation. I think you should be able to take risks and make mistakes, like accidently teleporting in a wall and taking damage. That could be a good limitation for a seemingly really strong power.

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Additional bonus thought.

Additional bonus thought.

If depth control/range discrimination for Teleportation can be accomplished via Charge mechanic (press & hold hotkey, activate upon release) ... the exact same system can be used to grant fusing options for things like Airburst Grenades, rather than needing to chuck them at surfaces only. This would then open up an entire range of 3D Location Targeting options for a variety of applications.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Additional bonus thought.
If depth control/range discrimination for Teleportation can be accomplished via Charge mechanic (press & hold hotkey, activate upon release) ... the exact same system can be used to grant fusing options for things like Airburst Grenades, rather than needing to chuck them at surfaces only. This would then open up an entire range of 3D Location Targeting options for a variety of applications.

*Slow Clap*

I love that you think outside the box for applications of tech. I love the idea if it can be implemented in a way that does not affect combat (making twitch combat).

I'm thinking of great applications like using it to "throw" objects. Mostly to "break through a wall" and the likes to start missions or solve mission puzzles.

Also this fits very well into the path System (See Wildstar) i'd hypothesized about earlier for players who want to test their map interaction skills (like the Wildstar Explorer Path).

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That would potentially place

That would potentially place charging mechanics as too prevalent in our intended designs. And because teleportation is one of the base travel powers is application is the basis for designing other teacel powers as well. The point to point function is rather necessary for what we want to do (that is the targeting retical to location in the 3d axis).


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

That would potentially place charging mechanics as too prevalent in our intended designs.

I'm going to file this under the heading of ... "wah!" (said in a dismissive nasal tone).

Now, I'll freely admit that there's a certain Hammer vs Nail factor going on here, but I don't recall anyone ever contemplating using a system like this to control distance along a Line of Sight before ... mainly because most systems don't allow all of the necessary pieces to be creatively assembled in this fashion.

Tannim222 wrote:

And because teleportation is one of the base travel powers is application is the basis for designing other teacel powers as well. The point to point function is rather necessary for what we want to do (that is the targeting retical to location in the 3d axis).

Tannim, I can usually parse my way past the pytos to figure out what you meant to say, but in this case you've lost me. What is a "teacel" ... and does it have anything to do with storm clouds raining tea?


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Tannim, I can usually parse my way past the pytos to figure out what you meant to say, but in this case you've lost me. What is a "teacel" ... and does it have anything to do with stormclouds clouds raining tea?

I'm guessing "teacel" was supposed to be "travel". Both 'e' and 'c' are close to 'r' and 'v' on the keyboard afterall...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
Tannim, I can usually parse my way past the pytos to figure out what you meant to say, but in this case you've lost me. What is a "teacel" ... and does it have anything to do with stormclouds clouds raining tea?

I'm guessing "teacel" was supposed to be "travel". Both 'e' and 'c' are close to 'r' and 'v' on the keyboard afterall...

The touch keyboards on cell phones can be tricky. ;)

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Lothic got it. I've been

Lothic got it. I've been relegated to cell phone usage today and I am terrible at proof reading my texts when rushing and I turned off auto-correct.

And dile it under any heading you wish. We have made certain commitments in past statements and we stand by them. Part of that means judicious use of charging mechanics and proper implementation to account for poor latency and for grandpa to play. This statement is a literal quote to me by our director when I questioned the use of charging for the game.


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I still do not quite
Tannim222 wrote:

And because teleportation is one of the base travel powers is application is the basis for designing other teacel powers as well. The point to point function is rather necessary for what we want to do (that is the targeting retical to location in the 3d axis).

I still do not quite understand the above statement even when i substitute in "Travel" for the misspelling... chance you can restate it?

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Pengy wrote:
Pengy wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Anyone without twitch reflexes will be overshooting constantly... by a LOT.

I can see it now...
Ticket #: 20170401-1503Type: PetitionPlayer: James MurphyCharacter: Louis LeadfootMessage: I was using the Teleport power and my mouse button stuck. By the time I unjammed it, my character had teleported way too far. Please transfer my character from the European server back to the North American server. Thank you.

Please complete the Moon Base expansion; my character has nothing to do.

8.5 second charge time.

I'm not kidding when I say exponential curves get out of hand fast.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
And because teleportation is one of the base travel powers is application is the basis for designing other teacel powers as well. The point to point function is rather necessary for what we want to do (that is the targeting retical to location in the 3d axis).

I still do not quite understand the above statement even when i substitute in "Travel" for the misspelling... chance you can restate it?

Sorry for my unintentional and uncharacteristic poor grammar.

The mechanical use of teleportation, hiw it is activated and used to trigger a vector change of the player controller from one point to another point will be used as the basis for other types of travel powers we introduce later.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The mechanical use of teleportation, hiw it is activated and used to trigger a vector change of the player controller from one point to another point will be used as the basis for other types of travel powers we introduce later.

/em looks expectant

GO ON ...

Or are you waiting for me to go first, to build on the system that I was outlining?


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Nope because ae hae the

Nope, I'm not going into detailsbecause we have the system we are building on already (and not at libert to divulge said details).

Charging for teleport isn't how we will handle it, though it may play a role in providing a function that we will use.

And it while you may have ideas to the contrary, it still won't change the how and when charging is being implemented to the game. That carts been hitched and the horse set to trot.


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I'm very interested to see

I'm very interested to see how you handle teleporting.

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I can understand why some

I can understand why some didn't like the way teleport worked as a cross-map travel power in CoX, but I was always willing to put up with that because its design made it useful as a tactical power as well. It was especially useful as a caltrop-nullifier. I also used it (and Recall Friend) once to help another player get past a mission map bug.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Well I'm very interested to

Well I'm very interested to find out as well.. as a huge proponent of combat parity I have a real issue with teleports in games past including:

Map Click teleport (any teleport that cant be used without a mouse)
Invisble/Intangible Flight Teleport
Energy Free/Cooldown Free Teleport

That said I look forward to seeing how it works in Titans

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I hope for some form of

I hope for some form of instantaneous movement instead of intangible flying like in CO.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Charging for teleport isn't how we will handle it, though it may play a role in providing a function that we will use.
And it while you may have ideas to the contrary, it still won't change the how and when charging is being implemented to the game. That carts been hitched and the horse set to trot.

Uh ... you don't have to use a Charge mechanic for every form of Teleport in the game. Indeed, I'm making the explicit point that it would be good for some forms of Teleportation (ie. Travel) while less useful for others (Recall Friend, Teleport Foe and so on).

In this case, One Size Does Not Fit All ... and it could be very useful to have multiple mechanics going on with Teleportation where some use Method A while others use Method B. Using a Charge mechanic for either Teleportation or fusing airburst grenades at specific ranges is a superior control method for determining variable ranges within a potentially very wide band of possible desired distances in which you don't have a specifically marked $Target to engage or go to. So a Charge mechanic is useful for ranging on Powers that work by targeting a 3D Location ... as opposed to a specific $Target that can be locked onto.

In other words, I'm of the opinion that the game ought to be "big enough" to support both systems, rather than just relying on one, and then using The Right Tool For The Job on an individual basis depending on what specific Powers are trying to accomplish as a part of their UI control scheme.


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Its a matter of efficiency in

Its a matter of efficiency in building powers and using previous design to create the next itineration of powers. The suggestion to create targeted location effects based off of charging mechanic is counter to a design decision that's already been made. There's no point in arguiing past that point.


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Have we secretly revived the

Have we secretly revived the "please make teleport cool " thread?

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I get the feeling that there

I get the feeling that there would be no point in doing so ...


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

The "big 4" Super Speed, Jump, Flight, Teleportation are a certainty for launch. We know Acrobatics needs to be there too for the "non-powered" option as well. Other travel powers will follow.
All travel powers will (at some point) have different animation themes just like regular powers.
It is possible to include travel-movement themed animations in attack sets (super speed to foe, hit tem, return to starting position).
There will be a tertiary set based on Combat Mobility (powers that actually move the character to perform an action leaving them at the new location). This tertiary will also have customizable animations.

Lothic wrote:

I never personally created a CoH character that didn't eventually have a travel power but I remember there were always people out there who, as part of their character concepts, didn't have any official travel power. They specifically choose to get by with only temp travel powers or other alternatives (like SG portals, etc.). Again it may sound weird but I could see a legitimate RP choice for not having any travel powers or at the very least not being forced to take an "automatic" travel power at level 1.

I was one of those weirdos. My main villain just used temporary jetpack and sky raider flightpack to get around. Not that I was big into RP, I just came up with a character concept and stuck with it as much as I could (unless I guess that is RP...). For this reason, I'd like to have a "non-powered" alternative to the big four travel powers of Superspeed, TP, Flight and Jump which also ISN'T Acrobatics, since even that is a very specific ability and, IMO, runs counter to a lot of types of character, eg why does your robot/sumo wrestler/little Yoda-type guy do backflips? This is one of the things in DCUO that started to grate on me real early: you are forced into taking a narrow set of options, the only individuality allowed is the combination of them.
What if you had a map-clickable variant of TP called Vehicular/Vehicle Transport, in which you got a choice of Ground-based or Airborne. With ground-based, you click for destination, then got a 5 second animation of a taxi, car (with customizable colour?) or limo materializing in motion and stopping right next to your toon, your toon immediately getting in, and the car moving on and fading away. At the destination point, the same animation would then play out in reverse.
With airborne, there is a rising sound of chopper blades, and maybe the shadow of a helicopter appearing on the ground (and leaves being scattered by downdraft?) as a rope ladder or rappleline trails suddenly into view from above. Your toon grabs the ladder or attaches the line to their belt/waist, and then zips away upwards, fading quickly. At the destination point (which can also be on top of buildings/structures) you can have the same animation in reverse, or you can drop out of the air with a parachute just like the summoning animation of the Commando minion for the Mercenary Mastermind.
A travel power like that would be awesome, it would provide real support for a Natural origin-themed character without making them obviously superhuman (or inexplicably talented at extreme gymnastics when nothing else about them should suggest that).
Also, how about a Gliding travel power usable only from the roofs of buildings or high structures, which has the animation of a colour-customizable hang glider, parachute, kite or set of artificial wings on your toon, and with which you can glide in a descent, accelerate or decelerate, dive and also gain lift by a quick combination of these in order to go higher and glide for further distance. It differs from Flight in the difficulty of using the gain lift function in order to keep going and in the obvious animation of a physical means of transport.
How viable is this?

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Gluke, keep in mind that all

Gluke, keep in mind that all travel powers could have multiple animations. Acrobatics can look like a more simplified running and jumping over obstacles or it can look like a ninja running and doing back flips.

Super speed can be cast running or a rocket sakre boards, rocket skates, ice sliding (ice trail and all).

Flight can be a jet pack, sky surffing on a cloud, riding a hover board, or the will-over gravity type flight typically seen.

There aee ideas for temporary powers to summon a vehicle to travel from point to point on a map with different skins depending on the type of travel as well.

The point being a travel power will have a lot less to do with how your character got their power and more of what animatikns fit your concept for the mode of travel you desire.


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Gluke, keep in mind that all

Gluke, keep in mind that all travel powers could have multiple animations. Acrobatics can look like a more simplified running and jumping over obstacles or it can look like a ninja running and doing back flips.

Super speed can be cast running or a rocket sakre boards, rocket skates, ice sliding (ice trail and all).

Flight can be a jet pack, sky surffing on a cloud, riding a hover board, or the will-over gravity type flight typically seen.

There aee ideas for temporary powers to summon a vehicle to travel from point to point on a map with different skins depending on the type of travel as well.

The point being a travel power will have a lot less to do with how your character got their power and more of what animatikns fit your concept for the mode of travel you desire.


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Flight can be a jet pack, sky surffing on a cloud, riding a hover board, or the will-over gravity type flight typically seen.

What about walking on sunshine?

Seriously, every time you talk about this kind of 'various skins for powers' idea, I wish I could jump forward in time to the release of this game.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

What about walking on sunshine?

Take "surfing a cloud" and switch the cloud out for a yellow-white glow effect. Done.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Take "surfing a cloud" and switch the cloud out for a yellow-white glow effect. Done.

Thanks!

And don't it feel good?

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I like this game.

I like this game.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

You might've enjoyed the challenge,
and of course whatever is fun for you
but that didn't make the power useful
and it usually wasn't
Teleport also needs an ability in the set that teleports you directly behind a selected target.

Once I built a macro for it, teleport was a very useful and usable travel power. I set it up so that shift-leftclick teleported me to the clicked-upon location. Very simple and easy to use.

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The "teleport bind" was

The "teleport bind" was essentially de rigeur for being able to use Teleport effectively.


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whiteperegrine wrote:
whiteperegrine wrote:

Izzy wrote:
I hope the free one is FLY.
Its the Slowest....
hey now...I loved fly. it provided the perfect time to do some AFC flyin while I ran for a refill on my coffee! :)

You had to love that and when you came back saw yourself dead in a patch of level 50 Giant Monsters xD

My favorite travel power was super jump! I would get that on almost all of my alts. I had hover/fly for my Main Kiyori mainly cause she was a blaster

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I had it at one point but was

I had it at one point but was the ninja run where when you jumped you did all sorts of crazy flips and whatnot? That kind of travel power would be cool to bring back. I think it was a temp power but it was so much fun!

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Ninja Run


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Other than having a free

Other than having a free travel power that you could take or hold off on taking as earlier proposed, CoH provided a benefit for not taking a travel power. You could have one more non travel power. Originally I had a stone tank in CoH. I did not take a travel power because none of the ones that were offered fit my concept of the toon. Most stoners took TP. Personally, I could not make the toon concept work with TP, or Flight or Super Jump or Super Speed. So, I never took a travel power for him. In doing so this did allow me one more non travel power option for my build. Had I taken a travel power I would not have had this option. I liked this option, please do not penalize me for not taking a travel power but do what CoH did in allowing me to use this power slot on something else. This adds another option as opposed to taking a travel power I did not want or having the option to use a power that I would in fact with this toon not use. A wasted power slot.

I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right to not agree.

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Follies wrote:
Follies wrote:

Other than having a free travel power that you could take or hold off on taking as earlier proposed, CoH provided a benefit for not taking a travel power. You could have one more non travel power. Originally I had a stone tank in CoH. I did not take a travel power because none of the ones that were offered fit my concept of the toon. Most stoners took TP. Personally, I could not make the toon concept work with TP, or Flight or Super Jump or Super Speed. So, I never took a travel power for him. In doing so this did allow me one more non travel power option for my build. Had I taken a travel power I would not have had this option. I liked this option, please do not penalize me for not taking a travel power but do what CoH did in allowing me to use this power slot on something else. This adds another option as opposed to taking a travel power I did not want or having the option to use a power that I would in fact with this toon not use. A wasted power slot.

Yea. Raptor / Jet / Jump / etc.. Pack was nice in this regard too. ;)

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Lionseye, my dual pistol

Lionseye, my dual pistol blaster used teleport. the concept was that there was a satellite she called into (Athena) to get from place to place. also used it for teleport friend...had a nice lil macro for it too, like she was talking directly to the satellite. :) rarely used it though and she normally just ninja ran everywhere...unless I was in a really big hurry to get somewhere.

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So using teleport without it

So using teleport without it being a major pain required making macros.
Something I only did 2 or 3 times because it seemed like a major pain.
Never got used to it.

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macros...could be a pain

macros...could be a pain initially...but once ya got the hang of em, they were a snap to make, even including tying them into "buttons" one could place on their task bar. :)

there were plenty of sites out there that had tutorials that could walk ya through the process...and many of them were power specific.

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Teleport macro. Was easy to

Teleport macro. Was easy to find and I just left it copy and pasted in a notepad txt file :p

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I never understood the

I never understood the concept of macros at all.
The few that I made were not useful, and I don't think they were even intended to be.
I can't even remember what they did.
I made them so someone could show me how to.
I would need more than an online tutorial.
I would need someone talking to me in person
explaining and demonstrating both the how and why
before I could grasp something like that.
It was very very alien to me.

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I finally got tired of

I finally got tired of needing to "sort" the control schemes for all of my characters the hard way and eventually settled upon using a "common" keybind control scheme for all of them with a "personalized" overlay of control updates needed for each and every character. Kept the whole mess as a bunch of .txt files in a single folder and could use a pair of /bindloadfile commands to do any overwrites and updates. That way, I could test out any changes I made on one character and then update those changes to EVERY character I played in a matter of minutes.

I then carried that experience from City of Heroes over to Star Trek Online, where I essentially do the same thing for controlling my keybinds for Space and Ground. It ensures that I can develop a common muscle memory "finger movement language" for how I play the game and keep it consistent across all the characters that I play within the game.

Kheldians were essentially GIMPed by not using keybind files to update their control schemes when shapeshifted.

Masterminds were outright crippled by not having keybind files to issue commands to all of the Pets.


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Kiyori Anoyui
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Ninja Run

YES!! More of this please ^-^

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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TheMightyPaladin
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See Red, All of that went way

See Red, All of that went way over my head.
It's just stars to me.

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Macros were basically buttons

Macros were basically buttons for the power tray you could program yourself using a limited programming language provided in the game itself. You could create a clickable button to execute a power, say something in chat, execute an emote and many more things.

Masterminds were highly dependant on macros, because the pet controls were often concieved lacking. The attack order for instance automatically set minions to agressive mode and then they would just randomly attack everthing around them, once their initial target was down. That often got you way more aggro than you and your minions could handle comfortably. If you wanted to play a bit more carefully, you could write your own pet commands.

And I have read that the developers plan on implementing a macro system that is a lot more intuitive and does not require extensive research on various websites.

Lin Chiao Feng
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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

See Red, All of that went way over my head.
It's just stars to me.

I rarely used macros but used keybinds all over the place. For example, every character I had had a keybind setting ~ to "find next victim". For my ranged folks, the bind was this command:

/bind ~ "target_foe_nearest"

For my melee folks, the bind was this command:

/bind ~ "target_foe_nearest$$follow"

What this meant was that in both cases it would target the nearest idiot in my field of view. For scrappers, though, it would also have my character chase them down. The "$$" was how CoX separated commands (a mistake I hope CoT doesn't repeat, but htat's another argument).

The teleport bind was simply:

/bind shift+lbutton "powexec_name Teleport"

And so forth. What Red was getting at was that, since these binds are all just lines of text, and the developers gave us a "/loadbindfile" command that let us load these bindings from a text file you could edit in Notepad, you didn't have to type these bloody things out all the time. You just kept a few text files with your binds in them and loaded them up when you started a new character. And if you wanted to change a bind on all your characters, you put it in a file and loaded that file into each character when you got to them. Easy peasy.

Then there's people like me. I'm a Mad Engineer. I had a mastermind. And Masterminds had a huge pile of commands available to them for pet control. Most folks used the "high-level" commands that just let you run your pets around like a mob. Kill this, kill that, get back here. Simple stuff.

I took advantage of the fact that "bindloadfile" was a command like any other and could be itself bound to a key. This meant I could "mode switch"; pressing certain keys would load binding files reprogramming other keys. So I set up my numeric keypad as a low-level direct-command system.

There were six pets: three minions, two lieutenants, and a boss, and you gave them all names. Pets could be given one of three stances: aggressive (shoot anything in range), defensive (fire if fired upon), or passive (just stand there). They could be told to attack a certain target, stop where they are, go to a certain point, or follow the player. And for each of these stances and commands, there were game commands to tell an individual pet to do it, a whole rank (all minions or all LTs; boss already covered by the individual command), or all pets.

So my controls broke up into two groups. The first group set who I wanted to command:

  • Keypad 0: everyone
  • Keypad 1: all minions
  • Keypad 2: both LTs
  • Keypad 3: boss (Kagome)
  • Keypad +: LT 1 (Chinami)
  • Keypad Enter: LT 2 (Yuriko)
  • Keypad /: Minion 1 (Mao)
  • Keypad *: Minion 2 (Misora)
  • Keypad -: Minion 3 (Silvia)

The second group gave the commands:

  • Keypad 4: aggressive stance
  • Keypad 5: defensive stance
  • Keypad 6: passive stance
  • Keypad 7: attack selected target
  • Keypad 8: return to owner
  • Keypad 9: go to specified location
  • Keypad decimal: stop where you are
  • RCtrl+Keypad decimal: return to base (unsummon)
  • LCtrl+Keypad decimal: self destruct

Needless to say, I could get my pets to do some crazy stuff. I could load this up--all the binds--in five seconds with one command. And all this could be completely ignored by a player that didn't want to deal with it.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of conga-line evil I can come up with.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

TheMightyPaladin
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If I could figure them out,

If I could figure them out,
I'd have found macros more useful than keybinds
because I couldn't type while playing
Even today I have to look at the keyboard to type
but I've gotten better at looking back and forth
so I can type during the game a little.
The only keys I use while playing are the standard movement keys and push to talk.
Everything else I do with the mouse.
I love my mouse.
His name is Rastamouse.

But as I said above no one ever explained anything useful I could do with macros
The couple of macros they got me to make when trying to teach me were not useful
so I just didn't bother.
If there are macros in this game, and they're useful
I'll put more effort into learning how to use them.

Gorgon
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Didn't like burrowing as

Didn't like burrowing as implemented in Champions -- it didn't burrow but just turned your body into a Buggs Bunny-likr pile of rumbling dirt. You still had to "jump" over stuff, and fell off cliffs (rather than drill down just inside), falling as said mound and hitting the ground and taking damage.

__________________

The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.

JayBezz
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Burrowing/Swimming just isnt

Burrowing/Swimming just isnt needed for the genre and is hard to balance for combat.

Do Not Want.

(*Still want a charge UI for teleport, despite devs objection)

Crowd Control Enthusiast

Lin Chiao Feng
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Tunneling would make for an

Tunneling would make for an interesting way to travel to distant (instance) zones...

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Redlynne
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Steam powered giant robots?

Steam powered giant robots? Check.

Loaded onto a steam train? Check.

Corkscrew the steam train to the center of the Earth to reach the mission instance on the surface? Wait ... do what now?


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Lin Chiao Feng
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Steam powered giant robots? Check.
Loaded onto a steam train? Check.
Corkscrew the steam train to the center of the Earth to reach the mission instance on the surface? Wait ... do what now?

I couldn't find a movie with the destination animation they added for the PS2 version, wherein the train shoots upward out of a lake, arcs across the sky, dropping the power armors as it goes, and then plunges back into the lake. Yay hidden tunnels.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Kiyori Anoyui
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Speaking of trains, I'm not

Speaking of trains, I'm not sure if this has been verified, are we going to travel from zone to zone by train like in CoH?

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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