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Timeline for Operators?

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ZigZag
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Timeline for Operators?

Since the KS goal for operators at launch was not met I was wondering what kind of wait we are going to have for them. MMs made up about 90 percent of my characters when they became a thing in CoH so Im just curious.

Of course I don't want them rushed, I want them to be as awesome as in CoH, I was simply wondering if there is a proposed timeline from after release to Operators being available.

DesViper
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Same question here. I do hope

Same question here. I do hope it comes with launch or soon, my main was a necromancer and I found the MM to be one of the funnest (idc if it's not a word, IT SHOULD BE) and most solo-able archetypes, next to the scrapper/tank/brute, of course. But I'd be willing to wait a few issues to have some perks like skinnable pets.

Are we calling then "Masters" or "Operators", the classes and specifications chart says "Masters", but this forum says "Operators", both claim to cover "Ringleader, Taskmaster, and Engineer".


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The operator is likely the

The operator is likely the most complex AT in the game because it not only requires highly functional pets, it also requires every power set those pets and/or the operator uses to be present in the game. The way the stretch goals were presented suggests that they're still within reach for launch if the ongoing funding goes well, but MWM has also said that the stretch goals would not be carried over as they had been presented. So, yeah, far too soon to even be shaking the Magic 8 Ball.

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syntaxerror37
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Personally, I wouldn't bet on

Personally, I wouldn't bet on anything less than a year after launch for the arrival of operators. MWM made it a high stretch goal for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I long to recreate my main villain (bots/FF) and would be ecstatic to be proved wrong on the timeline, but I have to be grounded in reality on this one.

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Lothic
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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't bet on anything less than a year after launch for the arrival of operators. MWM made it a high stretch goal for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I long to recreate my main villain (bots/FF) and would be ecstatic to be proved wrong on the timeline, but I have to be grounded in reality on this one.

I won't deny that it could take a long time after launch to see Operators make an appearance in the game. But I'd also take anything listed in the Kickstarter stretch goals with a pretty big grain of salt as well.

Remember that a lot can change over the course of year’s worth of software development. It's very possible that some things on the high end of the Kickstarter list might arrive before other things that were listed earlier and it's always possible some of those things might not happen at all. Also when they created that list they didn't know they were going to be able to have something like UE4 to work with so that might prove to be, forgive the pun, a gamechanger. Basically I'm just saying don't assume anything from the Kickstarter is 100% set in stone at this point.

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syntaxerror37
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Remember that a lot can change over the course of year’s worth of software development. It's very possible that some things on the high end of the Kickstarter list might arrive before other things that were listed earlier and it's always possible some of those things might not happen at all. Also when they created that list they didn't know they were going to be able to have something like UE4 to work with so that might prove to be, forgive the pun, a gamechanger. Basically I'm just saying don't assume anything from the Kickstarter is 100% set in stone at this point.

It's not that I am assuming that any part of any unmet stretch goals won't make it into the launch of the game. All I am saying is that stretch was set at over 3 times the goal for a very good reason. I think it is fair to use that to set one's expectations.

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Lothic
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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Remember that a lot can change over the course of year’s worth of software development. It's very possible that some things on the high end of the Kickstarter list might arrive before other things that were listed earlier and it's always possible some of those things might not happen at all. Also when they created that list they didn't know they were going to be able to have something like UE4 to work with so that might prove to be, forgive the pun, a gamechanger. Basically I'm just saying don't assume anything from the Kickstarter is 100% set in stone at this point.

It's not that I am assuming that any part of any unmet stretch goals won't make it into the launch of the game. All I am saying is that stretch was set at over 3 times the goal for a very good reason. I think it is fair to use that to set one's expectations.

Expectations for features that are due to happen years in advance are fine to have for what their worth. I'm simply saying priorities could easily change if enough people "actively suggest" that Operators should be made more of a top priority. Also they might figure out that they are easier (or even harder) to implement than the "3 times the goal" stretch goal list positioning initially implied.

Again I'm not holding any false hope that anything on the Kictstarter list will definitely happen for launch or happen five years later. I just wouldn't put any "set in stone" faith on any items on the list just yet - some of those features are almost certainly bound to shift around in a different order than what was originally envisioned there.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

syntaxerror37
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I guess I'm trying to say, I

I guess I'm trying to say, I don't see it as "set in stone" I just see it as "don't get your hopes up"

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Lothic
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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

I guess I'm trying to say, I don't see it as "set in stone" I just see it as "don't get your hopes up"

For launch time at least I agree.

But while "unreasonable hope" for Operators is not specifically warranted I'm also cautioning against the general idea that the Kickstarter stretch goal list is a fixed, unchangable roadmap of development. Some people (not you necessarily) tend to take everything Devs say as gospel and can't seem to accept that sometimes long term plans simply change for all sorts of unforeseen reasons.

I'm sure they're going to be spreading their development efforts across a wide range of features at any given time and it's (again) very likely that the actual order of features implemented by the Dev team over the years will NOT match the exact order given on the stretch goals list (which itself is already six months out-of-date). Does that mean I'm "assuming" Operators will come as early as Issue 1 of CoT? Not necessarily. But at this point their arrival is so far out there that it's almost equally likely to happen in Issue 1 as Issue 5 or even Issue 25. I simply don't think it's worth reading too much into where things are placed order-wise on the list. *shrugs*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I think the basics of combat

I think the basics of combat need to be in place before they think about how to translate those mechanics to pets..

the main reason for the delay is due to putting the horse before the cart.

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Lothic
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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

I think the basics of combat need to be in place before they think about how to translate those mechanics to pets..
the main reason for the delay is due to putting the horse before the cart.

One has to make an obvious assumption that the "basics of combat" will be in place by the time the game launches. If that's the only thing that'll "delay" Operators from happening then I think they could appear literally ANY time after that.

If it becomes a top priority that turns out to be easier than they thought they might release them for Issue 1 - if they have severe unforeseen problems making them work they might not happen until Issue 20+. Either way I really don't think anyone can "predict" exactly when they'll happen with any degree of certainty at this point.

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JayBezz
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While they could plan for

While they could plan for models for pets.. they do not simply require "powers". They require AI, Pathing, Cast Rules, UI, and many more external considerations. I am not saying they will or wont make it into Issue 1.. I'm simply trying to explain the reason they were further down the list and what challenges the dev team faces to get them put into the game if they want to keep their programming and launch schedule.

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Lothic
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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

While they could plan for models for pets.. they do not simply require "powers". They require AI, Pathing, Cast Rules, UI, and many more external considerations. I am not saying they will or wont make it into Issue 1.. I'm simply trying to explain the reason they were further down the list and what challenges the dev team faces to get them put into the game if they want to keep their programming and launch schedule.

For what it's worth I actually think it was a reasonable engineering decision (as of six months ago) to peg Operators "further down the list". I'm not disagreeing with you on the "why" they were put there because clearly there are a number of critical design issues to be dealt with to make them work properly.

I'm simply making the point that software development plans/lists that are set as "long term" as these almost never turn out exactly as you initially establish them. I've been in professional software development for decades so I'm well aware that application features like "Operators in this game" can still turn out to be EASIER than expected, about as hard as expected or HARDER than expected. There's no magic rulebook that says "Operators will take exactly 153 days to complete". The reality of it will depend on how clever the Devs are and whether they have any lucky breakthroughs that'll let them finish them earlier than expected. Amazingly enough no matter how much "planning" you do there's still a degree of random luck involved with these things.

Thus while the odds may favor the "expectation" that Operators won't be an Issue 1 feature it's still really far too early to completely dismiss the idea. What the Devs tell us about it a year from now will push the "certainty factor" much more towards a significant prediction worth talking about.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I'm also eager to see

I'm also eager to see operators added as soon as they can be. While I played mostly tankers in CoX, my alts included several MMs.