Announcements

Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2

Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.

It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.

To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.

Throws! Grapples!

18 posts / 0 new
Last post
Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
Throws! Grapples!

Any thoughts/plans on these happening in CoT? Thought about this when I was thinking my main needed to be able to toss people like Cammie White in Street Fighter! But it's never been an option!

Cold_Iron
Cold_Iron's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 11 months ago
kickstarter
Joined: 10/18/2013 - 21:53
This is actual something I

This is actual something I have been meaning to suggest. A wrestling based power set. Something like what you see in Kunnikuman where they use real and over the top moves. It would be like a controller power set for a tank as it would consist of a lot of single target CC.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
This would be cool but I

This would be cool but I guess it would mean having to come up with a bunch of extra "reaction animations" for every NPC and PC model in the game that'd be specific to just these relatively few wrestling-type powers. The character models would have to realistically look like they are grabbing/holding/throwing each other which might be harder to do than would be justified development-wise. I guess we'll see.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 days 3 hours ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
That's why they never did

That's why they never did this in CoX. It's a lot more work to animate interactions between character and target, and not just the character; different animations will be needed for different ratios of target to character size; it doesn't make sense for all targets (there was this one time a guy suplexed a train in Final Fantasy VI...); and it leads to additional play balance issues that have to be resolved (the target generally cannot be taking an action of its own during this process).

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

That's why they never did this in CoX. It's a lot more work to animate interactions between character and target, and not just the character; different animations will be needed for different ratios of target to character size; it doesn't make sense for all targets (there was this one time a guy suplexed a train in Final Fantasy VI...); and it leads to additional play balance issues that have to be resolved (the target generally cannot be taking an action of its own during this process).

While a player should never beable to make such a character, I'd be more than okay with some enemies who were totally immune to throws! Which I would think, help take care of that. :)

Redlynne
Redlynne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 21:15
The City of Heroes Devs

The City of Heroes Devs (plural) explained that any kind of "grappling" powers would just simply be unworkable in their game because of all kinds of interactability problems between avatars and hit boxes and ... MESS. Grappling and wrestling moves only makes sense if you're ground bound and in a gravity well ... which obviously means that any kind of flight generates a huge number of problems. Joint locks and wrestling holds and throws so on just don't make sense in the number of situations and avatar models you had in City of Heroes, because you aren't JUST dealing with Humans! Think of the "ankle biter" combinations that could potentially be produced just in PvP matchups (never mind against Giant Monsters!) for anyone using a wrestling powerset. It just doesn't work VISUALLY.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

(there was this one time a guy suplexed a train in Final Fantasy VI...)

Suplex the Ghost Train


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
I've watched JLU, they've

I've watched JLU, they've thrown each other while fighting in the air. O.O But what have the CoT Devs said about their game? And could always make the throws ground bound if needed. CoH had powers one had to be on the ground to use.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

I've watched JLU, they've thrown each other while fighting in the air. O.O But what have the CoT Devs said about their game? And could always make the throws ground bound if needed. CoH had powers one had to be on the ground to use.

Just for FYI CoH had at least one example of a toggle power (Hot Feet from Fire Control) that forced you to be on the ground when you started it but still continued to work if you flew up into the air after it was running. I used Hot Feet like that on my Fire Controller for years floating directly over MOBs with Hover for the extra DEF and Z-axis maneuverability.

Ultimately I don't think being airborne or not would be the problem here. The extra wrestling-type animations would be prohibitive regardless of where the combat might take place.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
I've watched JLU, they've thrown each other while fighting in the air. O.O But what have the CoT Devs said about their game? And could always make the throws ground bound if needed. CoH had powers one had to be on the ground to use.

Just for FYI CoH had at least one example of a toggle power (Hot Feet from Fire Control) that forced you to be on the ground when you started it but still continued to work if you flew up into the air after it was running. I used Hot Feet like that on my Fire Controller for years floating directly over MOBs with Hover for the extra DEF and Z-axis maneuverability.
Ultimately I don't think being airborne or not would be the problem here. The extra wrestling-type animations would be prohibitive regardless of where the combat might take place.

If I recall, Hurl and Footstomp could only be used while grounded.

greenstalker
greenstalker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 weeks ago
kickstarter
Joined: 09/28/2013 - 07:52
They never did it on CoH

They never did it on CoH because of various reasons. One being the distance between enemy and player. You need to be touching to your enemy to make this look like realistic reposition your enemy depending on your move and than wrote extra codes for various situation (size difference being one) in the end the set will be either
a) can't be usable in PvP because of its restrictions
b) requires more time to code than any other set not only systematic wise but graphic animations as well.
c) spending more time on a set that will not be used (and therefore can't justify time spnd on it) much

Twisted Toon
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 2 months ago
Joined: 11/14/2013 - 13:25
You forgot

You forgot
d) any combination of the above

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
greenstalker wrote:
greenstalker wrote:

They never did it on CoH because of various reasons. One being the distance between enemy and player. You need to be touching to your enemy to make this look like realistic reposition your enemy depending on your move and than wrote extra codes for various situation (size difference being one) in the end the set will be either
a) can't be usable in PvP because of its restrictions
b) requires more time to code than any other set not only systematic wise but graphic animations as well.
c) spending more time on a set that will not be used (and therefore can't justify time spnd on it) much

Don't make it a set. Make it an attack. Why would we need a whole set dedicated to throws? We'd only need an assortment of throw animations.

CrownArts
CrownArts's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 6 months ago
Joined: 11/17/2013 - 00:17
I think it could work, not

I think it could work, not without its problems but possible. The way I see it, no matter how much you customization every player or Npc has to fall under a given parameter. How about a pool power instead of an actual powerset....but just as customizable given parameters. I suppose could go into detail if you all like.

Beamrider
Beamrider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 21:41
Another problem with

Another problem with wrestling-type grabs and throws: What happens if two PC's with this power, standing on opposite sides of an opponent, both use it? They can't BOTH hold the enemy over their head.

Composition Team

Zombie Man
Zombie Man's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 years 1 month ago
kickstarter
Joined: 07/26/2013 - 19:23
Our techies' preliminary

Our techies' preliminary tinkering with the Unreal Engine and grapples/holds is not promising. If it ever does come about, it won't be at launch or in the first few updates.

Former Online Community Manager & Forum Moderator

LaughingAlex
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/08/2013 - 15:55
Throwing is cheap!

Throwing is cheap!

Just kidding, I think it's a great idea to allow throws as another form of "knockback". In fact I'd love to throw enemies over roofs and cliffs like in streets of rage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ciOHwf5E84

Note: Never got that far in the first one but...the third one....yeah....

I realized something today(5/8/2014) that many MMORPG players, are not like us who enjoyed CoX. They enjoy repetitiveness and predictability, rather then unpredictability. We on the other hand enjoy unpredictability and variety.

Brand X
Brand X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/01/2013 - 00:26
Beamrider wrote:
Beamrider wrote:

Another problem with wrestling-type grabs and throws: What happens if two PC's with this power, standing on opposite sides of an opponent, both use it? They can't BOTH hold the enemy over their head.

Same thing as in fighting games...nothing. :p

chase
chase's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/23/2013 - 11:11
I like the idea of

I like the idea of interactive combat, but keep in mind that these also often require limitations elsewhere:

-- Grapples require two separate models to run two separate animations in tight coordination with one another. To make these look effective, the models have to be of a predefined size and shape, so that when they're working together, they look good. Most games that do this don't allow certian character customizations for this reason. It limits the variations among the models to assure that the grapples match up to a reasonable level. (another trick: "auto-scale" the characters to the appropriate dimensions, is OK for subtle variations between characters, but ).
- This goes the same for models- if you have grappling as a significant part of your game, you limit the costume variations that would be problematic with clipping. many of the other combat animations have sufficient distance between models that clipping isn't as noticeable and the illusion can be maintained, but grabbling will put these issues prominently on display.
- Some of these issues can be addressed by the animation selection- how we do the grab, hold, and throw. We may be able to make something that hides some of the flaws, but isn't thorougly realistic. Would that be good enough, though? I know martial artists that pointed out continuously in CoH that certain kicks weren't well-executed. We had a very vocal community that objected to the game's original "Katana" animations. I've seen similar complaints in other games. Grapples, holds, and thows do involve adapting to your adversary, and this would be extremely labor-intensive to realistically implement and inaccuracies would be apparent to those that know the subject matter. Establishing that balance will be hard.

- Of course, all of the above are a matter of establishing balance- what looks good, what looks bad, and what do we want to live with in exchange for these features.

Others have mentioned gameplay limitations that need addressed, since grappling locks both attacker and attacked into a specific animation set. In a genre where players expect continuous dps streams, an interruption in this can be frustrating (think how SS's handclap often led people to grouse about the knockback)
What happens when others attack the grappler/grappled? What happens if someone else initiates a grapple to parties engaged in a grapple? (interrupt the grapple, enhance the grapple, continue the grapple after the first is completed, just do the damage of the grapple and nothing else, etc) What overrides what, and how do the animations play out?

Determining these, and the impact of each of these decisions on game balance will be yet another critical component in determining the value of adding this feature.

----------------------------------------------------------
Don't get me wrong, I like anything that enriches combat, but I'm wary of the wishlists that I'm seeing under suggestions and ideas (including my own). The volunteers and developers taking on this endeavour are going to be hard pressed to build out a world, adventures, and art/costume assets in the timeframe they've given themselves, let alone pursue options that much bigger and better budgeted dev teams have shelved rather than spend resources addressing.