Thoughts on the: Vril

90 posts / 0 new
Last post
Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Thoughts on the: Vril

So with the recent updated logo for the Vril, I read their description and have been thinking that missions and quest lines with the Vril could be very exciting and fun to play. Not only to kick some real, actual Nazi butts but also how CoT can bring in all the real-life mythos and conspiracy behind the Nazi's. For example, there are some pretty outlandish conspiracies that Hitler and top Nazi leaders actually fled to Antarctica and have underground bases. There is A LOT of conspiracy around Antarctica in general, but especially with the Nazi's. The conspiracies range from a few naval bases to full blown underground cities with thousands of people, advanced technology left by either aliens or past civilizations, and aliens.

Full disclosure, after I saw the updated logo I watched some Antarctica conspiracy vids on youtube to pass the time at work. It was actually very entertaining when listened to through the lens of thinking about story arcs for video games. Though I personally dismiss EVERYTHING alien related and lost cities with advanced technology, like Atlantis, I do enjoy listening to the theories for shts and giggles.

Anyway, it would be fun to have, in some future update [EDIT: by update I mean a future 'expansion' or addition to the game after it's initial full release, not a biweekly update on these forums], some of these conspiracy theories brought to life in the game for missions and story arcs related to the Vril.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Wolfgang8565
Wolfgang8565's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 10/31/2014 - 14:51
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Though I personally dismiss EVERYTHING alien related and lost cities with advanced technology, like Atlantis, I do enjoy listening to the theories for shts and giggles.

You really believe we are the only living creatures in the universe?

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Wolfgang8565 wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

Though I personally dismiss EVERYTHING alien related and lost cities with advanced technology, like Atlantis, I do enjoy listening to the theories for shts and giggles.

You really believe we are the only living creatures in the universe?

Not at all. But I don't personally believe we've ever been visited or have had any interactions with aliens.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
I like the story behind Vril

I like the story behind Vril as described in the original novel, The Coming Race, released back in 1871.

As described in the wiki it's a story about the secretive Vril-ya people who live in these vast underground sanctuaries. Their society was a technologically supported Utopia, chief among their tools being an "all-permeating fluid" called "Vril", a latent source of energy that the spiritually elevated hosts are able to master through training of their will, to a degree that depended on their hereditary constitution. This mastery gave them access to an extraordinary force that could be controlled at will. It is this fluid that the Vril-ya employed to communicate with the narrator of the novel. The powers of the Vril included the ability to heal, change, and destroy beings and things; the destructive powers in particular were powerful, allowing a few young Vril-ya children to destroy entire cities if necessary.

I realize the Hitler-era Nazis loved this story because it was all about a "chosen superior mystical race" but I have to admit it kind of sounds a bit like George Lucas borrowed a bunch of this for his Jedi and Sith. Just replace the word "Vril" with "Midichlorians" and see how familiar this sounds. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Hyperbolt
Hyperbolt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 09/20/2015 - 13:33
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I like the story behind Vril as described in the original novel, The Coming Race, released back in 1871.

As described in the wiki it's a story about the secretive Vril-ya people who live in these vast underground sanctuaries. Their society was a technologically supported Utopia, chief among their tools being an "all-permeating fluid" called "Vril", a latent source of energy that the spiritually elevated hosts are able to master through training of their will, to a degree that depended on their hereditary constitution. This mastery gave them access to an extraordinary force that could be controlled at will. It is this fluid that the Vril-ya employed to communicate with the narrator of the novel. The powers of the Vril included the ability to heal, change, and destroy beings and things; the destructive powers in particular were powerful, allowing a few young Vril-ya children to destroy entire cities if necessary.

I realize the Hitler-era Nazis loved this story because it was all about a "chosen superior mystical race" but I have to admit it kind of sounds a bit like George Lucas borrowed a bunch of this for his Jedi and Sith. Just replace the word "Vril" with "Midichlorians" and see how familiar this sounds. ;)

Interesting, very interesting.

So is this "Vril" going to be in CoT?

I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Hyperbolt wrote:
Hyperbolt wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I like the story behind Vril as described in the original novel, The Coming Race, released back in 1871.

As described in the wiki it's a story about the secretive Vril-ya people who live in these vast underground sanctuaries. Their society was a technologically supported Utopia, chief among their tools being an "all-permeating fluid" called "Vril", a latent source of energy that the spiritually elevated hosts are able to master through training of their will, to a degree that depended on their hereditary constitution. This mastery gave them access to an extraordinary force that could be controlled at will. It is this fluid that the Vril-ya employed to communicate with the narrator of the novel. The powers of the Vril included the ability to heal, change, and destroy beings and things; the destructive powers in particular were powerful, allowing a few young Vril-ya children to destroy entire cities if necessary.

I realize the Hitler-era Nazis loved this story because it was all about a "chosen superior mystical race" but I have to admit it kind of sounds a bit like George Lucas borrowed a bunch of this for his Jedi and Sith. Just replace the word "Vril" with "Midichlorians" and see how familiar this sounds. ;)

Interesting, very interesting.

So is this "Vril" going to be in CoT?

Yes, if you go under the "Cape Chaser" drop-down at the top of the website, they are the last group. Their logo was just updated as well.

Or just go here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/vril

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Hyperbolt wrote:

Interesting, very interesting.

So is this "Vril" going to be in CoT?

Yes, if you go under the "Cape Chaser" drop-down at the top of the website, they are the last group. Their logo was just updated as well.

Or just go here: https://cityoftitans.com/content/vril

I've actually been contemplating a character based on the original Bulwer-Lytton novel and I'd likely incorporate bits of what MWM is coming up with for their own variant of the lore. :)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
We had to update the logo

We had to update the logo after a real world neo-Nazi group decided on using it.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We had to update the logo after a real world neo-Nazi group decided on using it.

I was wondering what prompted the change. Thanks for being aware of that kind of thing - no point in supporting real world Nazis even in an extremely indirect and/or unintentional way.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

ConundrumofFurballs
ConundrumofFurballs's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 16 min ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 16:03
Yes, the Vril are a faction

Yes, the Vril are a faction that will be appearing in the game.

I will not go into any details, and neither should anyone else, about how much they appear or what the storyline(s) might be.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Conundrum of Furballs

Composition Team, Staff Writer

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
You can't get blood from a

You can't get blood from a stone, or (early access)in-depth lore from Conundrum :p

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Cyclops
Cyclops's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 26 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/10/2015 - 17:24
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Yes, the Vril are a faction that will be appearing in the game.

I will not go into any details, and neither should anyone else, about how much they appear or what the storyline(s) might be.

Curses! Foiled again!

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 43 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Yes, the Vril are a faction that will be appearing in the game.

I will not go into any details, and neither should anyone else, about how much they appear or what the storyline(s) might be.

Curses! Foiled again!

However, I think that we can definitely count on every word on the Vril Page being rampant speculation. Also that any of my characters who are associated with the Freyani Fellowship will take special pleasure in finding out what the Vril are really Up To and thwarting them. ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
Foradain's Character Conclave
Avatar courtesy of Satellite Nine.
If you can't see an image I've posted, please let me know!

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Yes, the Vril are a faction that will be appearing in the game.

I will not go into any details, and neither should anyone else, about how much they appear or what the storyline(s) might be.

Curses! Foiled again!

However, I think that we can definitely count on every word on the Vril Page being rampant speculation. Also that any of my characters who are associated with the Freyani Fellowship will take special pleasure in finding out what the Vril are really Up To and thwarting them. ^_^

Who knows, they may not even exist, or might be something completely different than assumed.

That's the fun about having such rumors flying around.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Foradain wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Yes, the Vril are a faction that will be appearing in the game.

I will not go into any details, and neither should anyone else, about how much they appear or what the storyline(s) might be.

Curses! Foiled again!

However, I think that we can definitely count on every word on the Vril Page being rampant speculation. Also that any of my characters who are associated with the Freyani Fellowship will take special pleasure in finding out what the Vril are really Up To and thwarting them. ^_^

Who knows, they may not even exist, or might be something completely different than assumed.

That's the fun about having such rumors flying around.

Yep...maybe they don't even exist...*wink* *wink*

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
I’d love to explore a Hollow

I’d love to explore a Hollow Earth world populated by Vril.

Ooh, and dinosaurs!

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 3 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
I think a game you would like
Atama wrote:

I’d love to explore a Hollow Earth world populated by Vril.

Ooh, and dinosaurs!

I suspect a game you would like then is Ark: Survival Evolved, Dinos galore!

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
I want to fight Nazis on the

I want to fight Nazis on the moon.

Also relevant comic panel.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 28 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

I’d love to explore a Hollow Earth world populated by Vril.

Ooh, and dinosaurs!

Vrill-eating Dinos?

Excellent!

Be Well!
Fireheart

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
Are you telling me I can

Are you telling me I can defeat or kill neo-nazis/nazis in this game?

Good, feels like in todays age people get all huffy about nazis being potrayed as bad.

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Sleepymoth wrote:
Sleepymoth wrote:

Are you telling me I can defeat or kill neo-nazis/nazis in this game?

Good, feels like in todays age people get all huffy about nazis being potrayed as bad.

I don't ever see people getting upset when other people call Nazi's bad. What I find repugnant is today people calling other people Nazi's because they don't like their political stances. Not to get political or take sides, but the phrases "[Person] is literally Hitler" and "[They] are literally Nazi's" is rampant in America today and it pisses me off to no end. These people obviously have ZERO idea of who Hitler and the Nazi's were and what they did. Zero idea. It lessens the evil of those people and what they did, as far as what we think about them in history, if we start associating their names and ideals with things FAR DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR in both scope and severity compared to what ACTUALLY happened. Hitler IMO is arguably one of the most evil people that has ever existed, the cause of more than 6 million deaths not just because he wanted to 'rule the world', but because he specifically hated that group of people for who they were.

I couldn't care less what side of the aisle you sit on, no one, NO ONE, in the political arena is literally Hitler or a Nazi. There may be wannabe's, but none compare to what the Nazi's actually did.

Rant over.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
So, according to you Cleric

So, according to you Cleric before someone can be called a Nazi they need to have done the things Nazis did?

Like, where does that line get drawn? Does waving Nazi flags and yelling Nazi slogans count? Or do they literally need to be actively murdering a specific group of people?

How much does someone need to be "like Hitler" for it to count in your book?

Yes, some people use the terms pretty frivolously but sometimes it can be an apt comparison.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Sleepymoth wrote:

Are you telling me I can defeat or kill neo-nazis/nazis in this game?

Good, feels like in todays age people get all huffy about nazis being potrayed as bad.

I don't ever see people getting upset when other people call Nazi's bad. What I find repugnant is today people calling other people Nazi's because they don't like their political stances. Not to get political or take sides, but the phrases "[Person] is literally Hitler" and "[They] are literally Nazi's" is rampant in America today and it pisses me off to no end. These people obviously have ZERO idea of who Hitler and the Nazi's were and what they did. Zero idea. It lessens the evil of those people and what they did, as far as what we think about them in history, if we start associating their names and ideals with things FAR DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR in both scope and severity compared to what ACTUALLY happened. Hitler IMO is arguably one of the most evil people that has ever existed, the cause of more than 6 million deaths not just because he wanted to 'rule the world', but because he specifically hated that group of people for who they were.

I couldn't care less what side of the aisle you sit on, no one, NO ONE, in the political arena is literally Hitler or a Nazi. There may be wannabe's, but none compare to what the Nazi's actually did.

Rant over.

And let us hope none of them ever do rise to that level.

But no, if we have Nazi's to punch in the face, we're using literal Nazi's.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

So, according to you Cleric before someone can be called a Nazi they need to have done the things Nazis did?

Like, where does that line get drawn? Does waving Nazi flags and yelling Nazi slogans count? Or do they literally need to be actively murdering a specific group of people?

How much does someone need to be "like Hitler" for it to count in your book?

Yes, some people use the terms pretty frivolously but sometimes it can be an apt comparison.

There is no apt comparison in America today for Hitler. None. And yes...before someone can be called a Nazi they need to actually *be* a Nazi. not a sympathizer, not a wannabe, an actual Nazi. If you have never killed anyone you can't be called a murderer no matter how much you say you're going to kill someone.

When you go murder people because you don't like who they are, you begin to become like Hitler. But he killed 6 million+ Jews...that's the difference. 6 MILLION PEOPLE. So no, no one in America is 'like Hitler' in my book.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Sleepymoth wrote:

Are you telling me I can defeat or kill neo-nazis/nazis in this game?

Good, feels like in todays age people get all huffy about nazis being potrayed as bad.

I don't ever see people getting upset when other people call Nazi's bad. What I find repugnant is today people calling other people Nazi's because they don't like their political stances. Not to get political or take sides, but the phrases "[Person] is literally Hitler" and "[They] are literally Nazi's" is rampant in America today and it pisses me off to no end. These people obviously have ZERO idea of who Hitler and the Nazi's were and what they did. Zero idea. It lessens the evil of those people and what they did, as far as what we think about them in history, if we start associating their names and ideals with things FAR DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR in both scope and severity compared to what ACTUALLY happened. Hitler IMO is arguably one of the most evil people that has ever existed, the cause of more than 6 million deaths not just because he wanted to 'rule the world', but because he specifically hated that group of people for who they were.

I couldn't care less what side of the aisle you sit on, no one, NO ONE, in the political arena is literally Hitler or a Nazi. There may be wannabe's, but none compare to what the Nazi's actually did.

Rant over.

And let us hope none of them ever do rise to that level.

But no, if we have Nazi's to punch in the face, we're using literal Nazi's.

Here here. And I can't wait to destroy some Vril...if they actually exist in CoT... ;)

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

ConundrumofFurballs
ConundrumofFurballs's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 16 min ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 16:03
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

How much does someone need to be "like Hitler" for it to count in your book? Yes, some people use the terms pretty frivolously but sometimes it can be an apt comparison.

There is no apt comparison in America today for Hitler. None. And yes...before someone can be called a Nazi they need to actually *be* a Nazi. not a sympathizer, not a wannabe, an actual Nazi. If you have never killed anyone you can't be called a murderer no matter how much you say you're going to kill someone.

When you go murder people because you don't like who they are, you begin to become like Hitler. But he killed 6 million+ Jews...that's the difference. 6 MILLION PEOPLE. So no, no one in America is 'like Hitler' in my book.

So...all I'm going to say on this is that y'all are getting to be spectacularly off topic, and starting to tread over into waters wherein the monster of politics lives. I'd really rather that monster didn't appear in what was intended to be a harmless and informational thread.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Conundrum of Furballs

Composition Team, Staff Writer

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

So, according to you Cleric before someone can be called a Nazi they need to have done the things Nazis did?

Like, where does that line get drawn? Does waving Nazi flags and yelling Nazi slogans count? Or do they literally need to be actively murdering a specific group of people?

How much does someone need to be "like Hitler" for it to count in your book?

Yes, some people use the terms pretty frivolously but sometimes it can be an apt comparison.

There is no apt comparison in America today for Hitler. None. And yes...before someone can be called a Nazi they need to actually *be* a Nazi. not a sympathizer, not a wannabe, an actual Nazi. If you have never killed anyone you can't be called a murderer no matter how much you say you're going to kill someone.

When you go murder people because you don't like who they are, you begin to become like Hitler. But he killed 6 million+ Jews...that's the difference. 6 MILLION PEOPLE. So no, no one in America is 'like Hitler' in my book.

6 million Jews, 3.5 million Poles, 5 million Slavs.... (Source: The Black Book, 1947)

I don't honestly think people grasp the full scope of the horror. Tens of millions of people died in that machinery of death engineered by the Nazi's. The Jews were by and far the largest, certainly. They were not alone.

For any super powered video game, an ideal enemy that everyone, no matter how twisted and evil, can find beyond redeemable, is crucial. Nazi's make ideal foes in this regard, with nothing in their creed which could be considered moral. Their ideology belongs in the dustbin of history, to be despised for all time.

(I may have strong anti-Nazi feelings incidentally)

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

How much does someone need to be "like Hitler" for it to count in your book? Yes, some people use the terms pretty frivolously but sometimes it can be an apt comparison.

There is no apt comparison in America today for Hitler. None. And yes...before someone can be called a Nazi they need to actually *be* a Nazi. not a sympathizer, not a wannabe, an actual Nazi. If you have never killed anyone you can't be called a murderer no matter how much you say you're going to kill someone.

When you go murder people because you don't like who they are, you begin to become like Hitler. But he killed 6 million+ Jews...that's the difference. 6 MILLION PEOPLE. So no, no one in America is 'like Hitler' in my book.

So...all I'm going to say on this is that y'all are getting to be spectacularly off topic, and starting to tread over into waters wherein the monster of politics lives. I'd really rather that monster didn't appear in what was intended to be a harmless and informational thread.

Hopefully we can team up against these monsters in-game. I tried to specifically not bring in politics but apparently failed.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Punching Nazis something that

Punching Nazis something that heroes and villians can agree on. It's science.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
Saying there aren't Nazis

Saying there aren't Nazis today is factually incorrect by any metric. There are recent accounts of people openly espousing that ideology. Not just the theoretical political stance of fascism but the specific targeted violence against ethnic or religious groups. This has not been limited to violent words. It has resulted in violent actions.

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
Having Nazis as a villainous

Having Nazis as a villainous faction works well. Sure you can make up a group of cruel monsters who are just as bad or worse as Nazis. But there’s nothing that compares to such a group that actually existed (and still exists in those who sincerely believed that national socialist philosophy and act on it, as TheInternetJanitor pointed out). No fictional creation can compare to the weight of history and actual lives lost and destroyed.

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 28 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:

No fictional creation can compare to the weight of history and actual lives lost and destroyed.

Like Alexander (The Great), Xerxes, or Ghengis Khan?

They certainly destroyed millions of lives, in pursuit of their goals.

Be Well!
Fireheart

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
Having a Ghengis Khan or

Having a Ghengis Khan or Attila the Hun villain group would be awesome. Or Roman legion, Japanese warlord ... really any anachronistic old timey military that is still effective due to *reasons* but keeps their original look and feel. Maybe they have super strength or magic enchantments or their ancient spears and shields are now lightsabers etc.

CoH had several groups like that, from magical ninjas to super teched out Prussians. I think there was even a roman gladiator arena.

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Having a Ghengis Khan or Attila the Hun villain group would be awesome. Or Roman legion, Japanese warlord ... really any anachronistic old timey military that is still effective due to *reasons* but keeps their original look and feel. Maybe they have super strength or magic enchantments or their ancient spears and shields are now lightsabers etc.

CoH had several groups like that, from magical ninjas to super teched out Prussians. I think there was even a roman gladiator arena.

This was the basic premise for this discussion. Since they already have the Vril on their capechasers list, for fun I watched some conspiracy theories on the Nazi's hiding in Antarctica and potentially have advanced technology from either past advanced civilizations leftovers in Antarctica or alien technology. I just think it would be fun in-game to, to some degree, utilize some conspiracy theories if for no better reason than they would be fun in a video game.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
Atama wrote:

No fictional creation can compare to the weight of history and actual lives lost and destroyed.

Like Alexander (The Great), Xerxes, or Ghengis Khan?

They certainly destroyed millions of lives, in pursuit of their goals.

Be Well!
Fireheart

They’re not fictional though, so they don’t conflict with what I said. And I don’t think anyone alive today lived through their atrocities.

If you want something comparable to the Nazi atrocities, try Soviet pogroms and gulags. I could see some old Soviet-era loyalists being a good villain group too. Experimenting on unwilling subjects to create monsters for war, or turn people into zombified slaves.

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
Atama wrote:

No fictional creation can compare to the weight of history and actual lives lost and destroyed.

Like Alexander (The Great), Xerxes, or Ghengis Khan?

They certainly destroyed millions of lives, in pursuit of their goals.

Be Well!
Fireheart

They’re not fictional though, so they don’t conflict with what I said. And I don’t think anyone alive today lived through their atrocities.

If you want something comparable to the Nazi atrocities, try Soviet pogroms and gulags. I could see some old Soviet-era loyalists being a good villain group too. Experimenting on unwilling subjects to create monsters for war, or turn people into zombified slaves.

Historical note: The Progroms were Tzarist policy, and were ended by the Soviets (and restarted in the last decade). The Gulags were also a Tzarist creation which, tragically, the Soviets retained (and still exist today).

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Cobalt Azurean
Cobalt Azurean's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 28 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/03/2013 - 16:39
Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Excellent!

Be Well!
Fireheart

Hyperbolt
Hyperbolt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 days ago
Joined: 09/20/2015 - 13:33
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Yes, the Vril are a faction that will be appearing in the game.

I will not go into any details, and neither should anyone else, about how much they appear or what the storyline(s) might be.

Nice they should be interesting for our heroes to investigate

I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Atama wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
Atama wrote:

No fictional creation can compare to the weight of history and actual lives lost and destroyed.

Like Alexander (The Great), Xerxes, or Ghengis Khan?

They certainly destroyed millions of lives, in pursuit of their goals.

Be Well!
Fireheart

They’re not fictional though, so they don’t conflict with what I said. And I don’t think anyone alive today lived through their atrocities.

If you want something comparable to the Nazi atrocities, try Soviet pogroms and gulags. I could see some old Soviet-era loyalists being a good villain group too. Experimenting on unwilling subjects to create monsters for war, or turn people into zombified slaves.

Historical note: The Progroms were Tzarist policy, and were ended by the Soviets (and restarted in the last decade). The Gulags were also a Tzarist creation which, tragically, the Soviets retained (and still exist today).

Soviets continued pogroms as well. See the Tykocin pogrom of 1941, where the Soviet secret police (NKVD) massacred Polish prisoners of war. They included women, children, and the elderly. They also deported nearly 1.5 million Polish people to Siberia. It was just brutal. Then Nazi Germany took it from the Soviets, and separated Jewish people from the survivors and massacred them too.

The NKVD ended up in total killing 20,000-30,000 former Polish citizens, who were executed as “enemies of the people”.

In the late 80s, there were pogroms held against ethnic Armenians in the Soviet Union. While not carried out by government forces, they were very slow to respond to the attacks. Hundreds of people were murdered.

Yes, the Tsars started the pogroms, true. And pogroms stopped for decades after the Bolshevik revolution. But they started again in WWII, carried out by secret police, and were later enabled in the 80s through government complacency.

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Atama wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
Atama wrote:

No fictional creation can compare to the weight of history and actual lives lost and destroyed.

Like Alexander (The Great), Xerxes, or Ghengis Khan?

They certainly destroyed millions of lives, in pursuit of their goals.

Be Well!
Fireheart

They’re not fictional though, so they don’t conflict with what I said. And I don’t think anyone alive today lived through their atrocities.

If you want something comparable to the Nazi atrocities, try Soviet pogroms and gulags. I could see some old Soviet-era loyalists being a good villain group too. Experimenting on unwilling subjects to create monsters for war, or turn people into zombified slaves.

Historical note: The Progroms were Tzarist policy, and were ended by the Soviets (and restarted in the last decade). The Gulags were also a Tzarist creation which, tragically, the Soviets retained (and still exist today).

Soviets continued pogroms as well. See the Tykocin pogrom of 1941, where the Soviet secret police (NKVD) massacred Polish prisoners of war. They included women, children, and the elderly. They also deported nearly 1.5 million Polish people to Siberia. It was just brutal. Then Nazi Germany took it from the Soviets, and separated Jewish people from the survivors and massacred them too.

The NKVD ended up in total killing 20,000-30,000 former Polish citizens, who were executed as “enemies of the people”.

In the late 80s, there were pogroms held against ethnic Armenians in the Soviet Union. While not carried out by government forces, they were very slow to respond to the attacks. Hundreds of people were murdered.

Yes, the Tsars started the pogroms, true. And pogroms stopped for decades after the Bolshevik revolution. But they started again in WWII, carried out by secret police, and were later enabled in the 80s through government complacency.

??
I don't think we're using the same definition of pogrom. I get what you're saying.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
There are varying definitions

There are varying definitions. The definition I was using was a deliberate persecution of an ethnic or religious group, approved, condoned, or carried out by local authorities. Usually it is used in reference to anti-Semitic activities but not always.

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
Uncomfortable truth time: The

Uncomfortable truth time: The US has done their share of of unwilling experimentation, genocide, attacking civilians, etc. and continues to do so to this day.

But that isn't likely to result in a corresponding villain group in a game looking to sell copies in the US.

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Uncomfortable truth time: The US has done their share of of unwilling experimentation, genocide, attacking civilians, etc. and continues to do so to this day.

But that isn't likely to result in a corresponding villain group in a game looking to sell copies in the US.

Unwilling experimentation, yes, the US government is guilty of that, at least as recently as the 70s with the Tuskegee Syphillis Experiments. But there were many others before that.

Genocide, that’s a matter of debate. European colonization of the Americas certainly had the effect of genocide. Native populations were reduced to a mere fraction of what they were prior to contact with Europeans, primarily through the spread of disease, but also due to violence and forced displacement.

The reason why it’s debatable whether or not it can be called genocide, is because the intent wasn’t to wipe people out. It was to take land and resources. If people got in the way, they were dealt with, often with violence. That’s certainly inhumane and cruel, but some consider it different than, say, Nazis deliberately trying to wipe out a race of people they equate with vermin. I personally think that if it’s not as bad, it’s not much better. That’s a shameful stain on history. An extremely bloody stain, too, quite possibly the largest specific group of people wiped out by another specific group of people, ever in human history. This was done quite some time ago, no later than the 19th century, and in a different era, but it’s still relatively recent in the historical perspective.

There have been accusations of American genocide since, but those accusations either require a very loose definition of the term (such that every large-scale conflict fits the definition) or involves unproven claims. (Though unproven doesn’t automatically mean untrue.)

Attacking civilians... I honestly am not sure what this means. Who was attacking what civilians and why?

In any case, I’m not sure what the American equivalent of a Nazi supervillain group would look like. An evil conspiratorial corporation like the Illuminati in The Secret World? That works, I guess, but it’s not something particularly American; that could come from any financially powerful nation. Though I’m always good with an “evil men in black” sort of group. Time-traveling genocidal cowboys maybe?

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
Sorry, wasn't intending that

Sorry, wasn't intending that comment to be blown up into a nearly political war.

I just really hate Nazis and the Internet has given me more reasons to hate them. A lot of other games tend to not flat-out say that the group your fighting are nazis which always annoyed me.

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
There was that bit when the

There was that bit when the last wolfenstein game came out that was kind of a hilarious bizzaro world opposite of what you're describing Sleepymoth. People were mad that the video game had nazis as the bad guys and made a fuss and the devs said "are you serious, this is wolfenstein, it has always been about killing nazis".

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
Thats actually what I was

Thats actually what I was referring to with my first comment. I remember hearing about that and being flabbergasted.

Wolfenstein was always about fighting and killing nazis. And people whom seriously try to argue that thats a bad thing are delusional.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Atama wrote:In any case, I’m
Atama wrote:

In any case, I’m not sure what the American equivalent of a Nazi supervillain group would look like. An evil conspiratorial corporation like the Illuminati in The Secret World? That works, I guess, but it’s not something particularly American; that could come from any financially powerful nation. Though I’m always good with an “evil men in black” sort of group. Time-traveling genocidal cowboys maybe?

Sadly "American Nazis" could look pretty much like their Hitler-era German counterparts. Case in point the follow pic is from the rally of the German American Bund in Madison Square Garden back in 1939:

They managed to get a crowd of 20,000+ here. Notice the swastikas, the brown-shirt uniforms and their icon, George Washington, who they considered to be "The First Fascist" who did not believe democracy would work.

So yeah it really doesn't take much to get people to "fall into line" so to speak.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Pretty sure I read somewhere

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

The Bellamy salute, quite accurate. However, it is a case of reverse application. The Nazi's took the salute from America (which had been in use since 1892), rather than Americans copying Nazi's.

Here are Cornelius Johnson, David Albritton, and Delos Thurber performing it at the 1936 Olympics after winning Gold, Silver and Bronze respectively in the Men's Long Jump.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Let's not forget that

To be fair let's not forget that practically "everyone" stole that basic salute from the Romans:


CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Fireheart
Fireheart's picture
Offline
Last seen: 23 hours 28 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/05/2013 - 13:45
When in Rome, do as the

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, unless you want to meet the Lions.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Halae
Halae's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 57 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/17/2014 - 09:37
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

Pray tell what other meaning can come from saying we used to salute like Hitler after the above conversations...that's not some innocent bit of trivia.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

Pray tell what other meaning can come from saying we used to salute like Hitler after the above conversations...that's not some innocent bit of trivia.

You're getting far too defensive about this. Nothing about that comes across as sinister.

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

Pray tell what other meaning can come from saying we used to salute like Hitler after the above conversations...that's not some innocent bit of trivia.

The way I read it was that it showed how something so mundane as a salute could become such an offensive symbol when adopted by the wrong people. Just as the swastika was a religious symbol used by various groups of people since ancient history until the Nazis decided to change what it meant.

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
Atama wrote:
Atama wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

Pray tell what other meaning can come from saying we used to salute like Hitler after the above conversations...that's not some innocent bit of trivia.

The way I read it was that it showed how something so mundane as a salute could become such an offensive symbol when adopted by the wrong people. Just as the swastika was a religious symbol used by various groups of people since ancient history until the Nazis decided to change what it meant.

This, the Swastika used to be a symbol of Buddhist peace before it got stolen by the nazis and warped as a symbol. It wouldn't surprise me if they did the same with salutes

Funny how Nazis were all about ''superior races and cultures'' when they would ape from so called inferior cultures.

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Halae wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

It's almost as if some people on here look to be offended by the things I post, or at least try their hardest to vilify me or goad me I to an argument.

Much like in another thread where I edited someone's quote in a post of mine and people jumped down my throat about it. Someone else does it in another thread and it passes completely without comment.

Some peeps just want to find excuses to... Well, I wouldn't say attack exactly, go at? Another person. Once you decide you don't like someone suddenly everything they do is offensive in some way.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

It's almost as if some people on here look to be offended by the things I post, or at least try their hardest to vilify me or goad me I to an argument.

Much like in another thread where I edited someone's quote in a post of mine and people jumped down my throat about it. Someone else does it in another thread and it passes completely without comment.

Some peeps just want to find excuses to... Well, I wouldn't say attack exactly, go at? Another person. Once you decide you don't like someone suddenly everything they do is offensive in some way.

You're kidding right? After the whole conversation about you trying to say the US wasn't a great nation you compare Hitlers Nazi salute to the old American salute...and try to pass it off as some random piece of innocent trivia? Please.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Atama
Atama's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 52 min ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/09/2013 - 22:32
Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

It's almost as if some people on here look to be offended by the things I post, or at least try their hardest to vilify me or goad me I to an argument.

Much like in another thread where I edited someone's quote in a post of mine and people jumped down my throat about it. Someone else does it in another thread and it passes completely without comment.

Repeatedly doing it after being asked to stop was being a blatant troll. I wouldn’t bring that incident up anymore if I were you. It really sabotages your argument that you meant no offense. And I was defending you in this thread.

Halae
Halae's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 57 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 09/17/2014 - 09:37
Alright, that's enough. We

Alright, that's enough. We may not be off topic, but everybody is prodding each other now, and that'll just spiral out into another half-page of people being pissed at one another. It's not healthy for those involved, and people not involved don't want to deal with it, so I'm asking you guys to put this aside for now or move it elsewhere.

And no backhanded assents this time. That includes "Sure, but [person] did [thing], so if they stop I will" that's just goading people.

Yes, I know I can't enforce this, but come on guys; we're the fans of CoH, renowned for it's good community. You're dragging things down.

An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Halae wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Pretty sure I read somewhere that how Americans saluted the flag way back when was very similar to the Nazi salute.

No idea how true this is though.

And?

There is no and. It's just a neat bit of trivia.

You're trying to vilify America by saying we used to salute like Hitler, as if that should mean something sinister. Screw off.

PH can be abrasive from time to time, but that wasn't a vilification. You're reading too deep into it.

It's almost as if some people on here look to be offended by the things I post, or at least try their hardest to vilify me or goad me I to an argument.

Much like in another thread where I edited someone's quote in a post of mine and people jumped down my throat about it. Someone else does it in another thread and it passes completely without comment.

Some peeps just want to find excuses to... Well, I wouldn't say attack exactly, go at? Another person. Once you decide you don't like someone suddenly everything they do is offensive in some way.

You're kidding right? After the whole conversation about you trying to say the US wasn't a great nation you compare Hitlers Nazi salute to the old American salute...and try to pass it off as some random piece of innocent trivia? Please.

I never said that the US wasn't a great nation. I said that it wasn't -the best- nation and I believe even that was prefaced by it not being -the best- nation at a given -thing-

And also, yeah. It is some random piece of trivia. See the conversation in this thread reminded me of that little factoid.

Honestly, if all I wanted to do was slag off the US there are numerous other and better ways I could do that.

So take whatever little grudge you have and drop it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
Guys chill please, the other

Guys chill please, the other thread went haywire admittedly because of some stupid jokes. We don't need to ruin multiple threads because some political stuff.

Brainbot
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 7 hours ago
Joined: 04/25/2016 - 21:30
The National Socialists (Nazi

The National Socialists (Nazi's) got the salute from Italy not America. And Italy got it from a movie.
Project is correct that the 'salute' was to the flag and it was similar to the 'Heil' salute. It was to be done when reciting the 'Pledge of Allegiance' and Bellamy, the guy who wrote the pledge, suggested it be done.
Once the Nazi Party started using their salute, the gesture one made when giving the pledge went from an outstretched arm (hand up not hand down) to a hand over heart so Americans could distance themselves from fascist parties.

The outstretched arm, palm down salute is called the 'Roman Salute' but there is no evidence of it being used in Rome. It is commonly believed to be an invention of French artists.

I knew the salute didn't come from America but a quick search gave me the rest of the info. I was surprised to learn the salute didn't originate in Rome because I always thought it did.

ConundrumofFurballs
ConundrumofFurballs's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 16 min ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/05/2012 - 16:03
Everyone needs to stop

Everyone needs to stop attacking each other, underhanded, backhanded, or straightforward. I don't care who said what first. Carrying on in this manner makes these threads impossible to follow for those that are interested in the actually relevant bits. If it continues, the moderator bat will be used.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Conundrum of Furballs

Composition Team, Staff Writer

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Brainbot wrote:
Brainbot wrote:

The National Socialists (Nazi's) got the salute from Italy not America. And Italy got it from a movie.
Project is correct that the 'salute' was to the flag and it was similar to the 'Heil' salute. It was to be done when reciting the 'Pledge of Allegiance' and Bellamy, the guy who wrote the pledge, suggested it be done.
Once the Nazi Party started using their salute, the gesture one made when giving the pledge went from an outstretched arm (hand up not hand down) to a hand over heart so Americans could distance themselves from fascist parties.

The outstretched arm, palm down salute is called the 'Roman Salute' but there is no evidence of it being used in Rome. It is commonly believed to be an invention of French artists.

I knew the salute didn't come from America but a quick search gave me the rest of the info. I was surprised to learn the salute didn't originate in Rome because I always thought it did.

And a random bit of half remembered trivia turns into a full on lesson. Thanks, Brainy! :D

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

Planet10
Planet10's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:
ConundrumofFurballs wrote:

Everyone needs to stop attacking each other, underhanded, backhanded, or straightforward. I don't care who said what first. Carrying on in this manner makes these threads impossible to follow for those that are interested in the actually relevant bits. If it continues, the moderator bat will be used.

That is why it is mostly pointless to follow any thread that is longer than 40 or so posts. Or if a handful of regulars are seen to be quote chaining.

Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We had to update the logo after a real world neo-Nazi group decided on using it.

To be fair, they've been using it far longer than MWM exists... so it's more of an oversight on your part, than Nazis co-opting the Black Sun after it was picked for the Vril.
And as much as I like the new, alien looking logo, I can't help but notice that it isn't (yet) mentioned in the CC entry.

When people ask me about my religion, I tell 'em I'd worship Cthulhu.

How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

We had to update the logo after a real world neo-Nazi group decided on using it.

To be fair, they've been using it far longer than MWM exists... so it's more of an oversight on your part, than Nazis co-opting the Black Sun after it was picked for the Vril.
And as much as I like the new, alien looking logo, I can't help but notice that it isn't (yet) mentioned in the CC entry.

Because the CC entry is from WW2. And is rumor and innuendo as well.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
So the Vril decided to change

So the Vril decided to change their logo some time after WW2?
Otherwise I'm pretty sure it should've been mentioned in the original report the CC entry was based on, considering how different it is from the nazi's runic style.

When people ask me about my religion, I tell 'em I'd worship Cthulhu.

How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

Cyclops
Cyclops's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 26 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/10/2015 - 17:24
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

So with the recent updated logo for the Vril, I read their description and have been thinking that missions and quest lines with the Vril could be very exciting and fun to play. Not only to kick some real, actual Nazi butts but also how CoT can bring in all the real-life mythos and conspiracy behind the Nazi's. For example, there are some pretty outlandish conspiracies that Hitler and top Nazi leaders actually fled to Antarctica and have underground bases. There is A LOT of conspiracy around Antarctica in general, but especially with the Nazi's. The conspiracies range from a few naval bases to full blown underground cities with thousands of people, advanced technology left by either aliens or past civilizations, and aliens.

Full disclosure, after I saw the updated logo I watched some Antarctica conspiracy vids on youtube to pass the time at work. It was actually very entertaining when listened to through the lens of thinking about story arcs for video games. Though I personally dismiss EVERYTHING alien related and lost cities with advanced technology, like Atlantis, I do enjoy listening to the theories for shts and giggles.

Anyway, it would be fun to have, in some future update [EDIT: by update I mean a future 'expansion' or addition to the game after it's initial full release, not a biweekly update on these forums], some of these conspiracy theories brought to life in the game for missions and story arcs related to the Vril.

It would be interesting to have what appears to be an alien invasion with flying saucers turn out to be the Vril.
Large mobs of armed Vril marching down the streets in military precision...just asking to be taken down!
Hover panzers
Vril ships you get to board and blow up (pity they provide a handy munitions room on every ship. Oh, look! A Timer).
Destructable Vril banners/flags they they don't allow to be torn down (and they get really ticked when you do). Fun! Summon experience points!
Vril arch bosses trying to give a televised speech and you get to attack them on TV
Those who earn the worst Faction with the Vril get wanted posters with their names/pictures on it. (total reward for resistance types!)
Posted lists of Vril rules you get to break.

Messing with the Vril could be a LOT of fun!

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

So with the recent updated logo for the Vril, I read their description and have been thinking that missions and quest lines with the Vril could be very exciting and fun to play. Not only to kick some real, actual Nazi butts but also how CoT can bring in all the real-life mythos and conspiracy behind the Nazi's. For example, there are some pretty outlandish conspiracies that Hitler and top Nazi leaders actually fled to Antarctica and have underground bases. There is A LOT of conspiracy around Antarctica in general, but especially with the Nazi's. The conspiracies range from a few naval bases to full blown underground cities with thousands of people, advanced technology left by either aliens or past civilizations, and aliens.

Full disclosure, after I saw the updated logo I watched some Antarctica conspiracy vids on youtube to pass the time at work. It was actually very entertaining when listened to through the lens of thinking about story arcs for video games. Though I personally dismiss EVERYTHING alien related and lost cities with advanced technology, like Atlantis, I do enjoy listening to the theories for shts and giggles.

Anyway, it would be fun to have, in some future update [EDIT: by update I mean a future 'expansion' or addition to the game after it's initial full release, not a biweekly update on these forums], some of these conspiracy theories brought to life in the game for missions and story arcs related to the Vril.

It would be interesting to have what appears to be an alien invasion with flying saucers turn out to be the Vril.
Large mobs of armed Vril marching down the streets in military precision...just asking to be taken down!
Hover panzers
Vril ships you get to board and blow up (pity they provide a handy munitions room on every ship. Oh, look! A Timer).
Destructable Vril banners/flags they they don't allow to be torn down (and they get really ticked when you do). Fun! Summon experience points!
Vril arch bosses trying to give a televised speech and you get to attack them on TV
Those who earn the worst Faction with the Vril get wanted posters with their names/pictures on it. (total reward for resistance types!)
Posted lists of Vril rules you get to break.

Messing with the Vril could be a LOT of fun!

The only quibble here is that the Vril-ya were a race of super-humans who lived "underground". Just replace your "flying saucers from space" with "guys popping up out of the ground" and the rest is good.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Cyclops
Cyclops's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 26 min ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 04/10/2015 - 17:24
Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:

So with the recent updated logo for the Vril, I read their description and have been thinking that missions and quest lines with the Vril could be very exciting and fun to play. Not only to kick some real, actual Nazi butts but also how CoT can bring in all the real-life mythos and conspiracy behind the Nazi's. For example, there are some pretty outlandish conspiracies that Hitler and top Nazi leaders actually fled to Antarctica and have underground bases. There is A LOT of conspiracy around Antarctica in general, but especially with the Nazi's. The conspiracies range from a few naval bases to full blown underground cities with thousands of people, advanced technology left by either aliens or past civilizations, and aliens.

Full disclosure, after I saw the updated logo I watched some Antarctica conspiracy vids on youtube to pass the time at work. It was actually very entertaining when listened to through the lens of thinking about story arcs for video games. Though I personally dismiss EVERYTHING alien related and lost cities with advanced technology, like Atlantis, I do enjoy listening to the theories for shts and giggles.

Anyway, it would be fun to have, in some future update [EDIT: by update I mean a future 'expansion' or addition to the game after it's initial full release, not a biweekly update on these forums], some of these conspiracy theories brought to life in the game for missions and story arcs related to the Vril.

It would be interesting to have what appears to be an alien invasion with flying saucers turn out to be the Vril.
Large mobs of armed Vril marching down the streets in military precision...just asking to be taken down!
Hover panzers
Vril ships you get to board and blow up (pity they provide a handy munitions room on every ship. Oh, look! A Timer).
Destructable Vril banners/flags they they don't allow to be torn down (and they get really ticked when you do). Fun! Summon experience points!
Vril arch bosses trying to give a televised speech and you get to attack them on TV
Those who earn the worst Faction with the Vril get wanted posters with their names/pictures on it. (total reward for resistance types!)
Posted lists of Vril rules you get to break.

Messing with the Vril could be a LOT of fun!

The only quibble here is that the Vril-ya were a race of super-humans who lived "underground". Just replace your "flying saucers from space" with "guys popping up out of the ground" and the rest is good.

I just read Antarctica and alien technology and it clicked with me.
didn't they make a Nazis on the moon movie a few years back?

Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
Yes, and it sucked. =(

Yes, and it sucked... at least when compared to it's potential.
I hope the Hollow Earth sequel will be better.

€dit:

Wikipedia wrote:

A major inspiration of the content (and the title) is the Vril conspiracy theory.

When people ask me about my religion, I tell 'em I'd worship Cthulhu.

How bad could I possibly be? Let's see...

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:
Lothic wrote:

The only quibble here is that the Vril-ya were a race of super-humans who lived "underground". Just replace your "flying saucers from space" with "guys popping up out of the ground" and the rest is good.

I just read Antarctica and alien technology and it clicked with me.
didn't they make a Nazis on the moon movie a few years back?

There are all sorts of stories like this that got mixed in with the general pseudo-occult superman ideal the Nazis loved. Some of them involved Nazis in Argentina, on Antarctica, on the Moon, and so on. These are all uniquely different stories from different sources over the years.

The original novel where the Vril story came from (The Coming Race by Edward Bulwer-Lytton) established that the Vril-ya was as subterranean race. This novel (written back in 1871) was its own non-Nazi story for decades before the pre-WWII Nazis decided they liked it and co-opted it for their own propaganda. I'm just saying that if CoT is going to "borrow" the Vril concept they might as well follow the basic core concepts (i.e. the Vril-ya lived underground).

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Lord Nightmare
Lord Nightmare's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 15:44
I say have the logo be

I say have the logo be something recognizable and with multiple interpretations

Like say.. a scorpion tail within an elongated hexagon.

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

It would be interesting to have what appears to be an alien invasion with flying saucers turn out to be the Vril.

This is really interesting because it works with my initial post really well with my conspiracy idea. There is a real conspiracy out there where people believe the government has been behind every UFO and alien sighting for the purpose of getting people to believe in aliens. This specific conspiracy theory also goes so far as to claim that there will be 'alien invasions' in the near future, UFO's attacking strategic locations, most likely of our enemies, under the guise of 'aliens'. There could be multiple reasons for this - either debilitate our competition or potentially try to unite earth under the threat of aliens. If enough people believe in aliens, and the government has aircraft unknown to the general public that they would consider 'alien', they are basically free to do what they will with it without repercussion if 'aliens' will take the blame.

So I really like the idea of the Vril attacking in UFO's but we only learn they are the Vril, and not aliens, when the disembark their UFO's to fight in person. Then we get to stomp them.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Lord Nightmare
Lord Nightmare's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 15:44
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

It would be interesting to have what appears to be an alien invasion with flying saucers turn out to be the Vril.

This is really interesting because it works with my initial post really well with my conspiracy idea. There is a real conspiracy out there where people believe the government has been behind every UFO and alien sighting for the purpose of getting people to believe in aliens. This specific conspiracy theory also goes so far as to claim that there will be 'alien invasions' in the near future, UFO's attacking strategic locations, most likely of our enemies, under the guise of 'aliens'. There could be multiple reasons for this - either debilitate our competition or potentially try to unite earth under the threat of aliens. If enough people believe in aliens, and the government has aircraft unknown to the general public that they would consider 'alien', they are basically free to do what they will with it without repercussion if 'aliens' will take the blame.

So I really like the idea of the Vril attacking in UFO's but we only learn they are the Vril, and not aliens, when the disembark their UFO's to fight in person. They we get to stomp them.

Hello, Commander...

Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...

Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
As much as I love Solomon's

As much as I love Solomon's work I would go to Gollop's UFO first. That background to the buy/sell interface with the nameless suits offering briefcases of cash for ill gotten alien loot is just perfect for the setting.

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Man, I love seeing conjecture

Man, I love seeing conjecture.

This is going to be so much fun.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Dark Cleric
Dark Cleric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 24 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2018 - 12:26
Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Man, I love seeing conjecture.

This is going to be so much fun.

Not sure what is conjecture in this thread. My OP was just about cool ideas for the Vril that I had, not what I thought would actually be in the game based on the zero information we have on the Vril. The direction I intended for the thread was to get interesting ideas about the Vril, some based on actual conspiracies. More to pass the time talking about something CoT related than guesswork on what will actually be in the game when it comes to the Vril.

Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
Dark Cleric wrote:
Dark Cleric wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Man, I love seeing conjecture.

This is going to be so much fun.

Not sure what is conjecture in this thread. My OP was just about cool ideas for the Vril that I had, not what I thought would actually be in the game based on the zero information we have on the Vril. The direction I intended for the thread was to get interesting ideas about the Vril, some based on actual conspiracies. More to pass the time talking about something CoT related than guesswork on what will actually be in the game when it comes to the Vril.

I imagine that for the purposes of CoT the Vril will just be a sort of "catch-all" faction that will take bits and pieces of all the various pre and post WWII Nazi oriented Aryan/superman conspiracies to make one "hybrid" group that represents all of that.

There will probably be elements taken directly from the original The Coming Race novel but there will also likely be parts taken from the stories about "secret Nazi moon bases" to "exiled Nazis in South America" to "secret WWII Nazi super weapons" and all the related lore and stories. I even assume MWM will "borrow" from CoH's Council faction given that the Council itself was just a sort of hodge-podge of all those various ideas itself.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
Over the top comic book Nazis

Over the top comic book Nazis with mad science, occult, conspiracies, spies, UFOs? Sign me up. CoX went the extra mile with the fifth column, they even had vampires and werewolves.

Lothic
Lothic's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 8 hours ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/02/2013 - 00:27
TheInternetJanitor wrote:
TheInternetJanitor wrote:

Over the top comic book Nazis with mad science, occult, conspiracies, spies, UFOs? Sign me up. CoX went the extra mile with the fifth column, they even had vampires and werewolves.

In case you were not aware the "Fifth Column" was essentially absorbed/reformed into "The Council" by the time Issue 3 of CoH was released. That's why I mentioned "The Council" earlier. They did technically have the two groups "fighting" each other later in the game but by the end The Council was the dominate group.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Sleepymoth
Sleepymoth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 17 hours ago
Joined: 12/22/2017 - 01:33
The Council and the Fifth

The Council and the Fifth Column fighting eachother over diverging ideals made sense as the nazis had a lot of infighting in their ranks back in WW2 which partly proved to be their rightful downfall.

Makes me wonder if we'll see the same thing here. Either which way beating up nazis is cathartic....

Project_Hero
Project_Hero's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 8 min ago
Joined: 10/09/2014 - 11:21
Sleepymoth wrote:
Sleepymoth wrote:

The Council and the Fifth Column fighting eachother over diverging ideals made sense as the nazis had a lot of infighting in their ranks back in WW2 which partly proved to be their rightful downfall.

Makes me wonder if we'll see the same thing here. Either which way beating up nazis is cathartic....

The right response to a Nazi is to punch that Nazi.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

TheInternetJanitor
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
Joined: 05/11/2018 - 06:00
Indiana Jones approves of

Indiana Jones approves of this thread.

Doctor Tyche
Doctor Tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 22 min ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Sleepymoth wrote:
Sleepymoth wrote:

The Council and the Fifth Column fighting eachother over diverging ideals made sense as the nazis had a lot of infighting in their ranks back in WW2 which partly proved to be their rightful downfall.

Makes me wonder if we'll see the same thing here. Either which way beating up nazis is cathartic....

Maaaybe.....

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider