Team Forces

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graff
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Team Forces

I hope that there is going to be some kind of team forces in City of Titans, I loved doing all of them.
and really liked the teaming aspect that it brought.
some where far to long so if they were maybe cut down to like the length of ITF where there is maybe 5 or 6 or so missions as too the very long ones that were 10 to 15 missions

Von Krieger
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The huge, hefty, boring TF's

The huge, hefty, boring TF's in CoH were essentially relics of design objectives that didn't work out quite as the dev team expected. TF's were supposed to be completed over several sessions, rather than a single play session. Turns out that the players didn't treat them like that, and simply ran the ones that could be completed in a reasonable span of time with a random group of chuckleheads.

So I doubt that CoT is going to be repeating that particular design choice. In making a new game from the ground up, you can learn from the mistakes that other superhero games made along the way, and avoid them.

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I feel sad that team forces

I feel sad that team forces are not going to be part of the game as I said I really enjoyed them and there were always others who also enjoyed the teaming aspect it brought

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I'd hope that rather than

I'd hope that rather than deep-sixing task forces altogether, CoT will just have TFs that are designed around how they were actually used. 8-10 missions tightly linked in a story arc that a team (pre-built or pickup) can run through in a reasonable amount of time. Some of my fondest memories are from running through task forces with a team built from our SG and RPing the whole way through it.

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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

I'd hope that rather than deep-sixing task forces altogether, CoT will just have TFs that are designed around how they were actually used. 8-10 missions tightly linked in a story arc that a team (pre-built or pickup) can run through in a reasonable amount of time. Some of my fondest memories are from running through task forces with a team built from our SG and RPing the whole way through it.

+1

Some of the TF storylines were great!

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

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Mendicant wrote:
Mendicant wrote:

I'd hope that rather than deep-sixing task forces altogether, CoT will just have TFs that are designed around how they were actually used. 8-10 missions tightly linked in a story arc that a team (pre-built or pickup) can run through in a reasonable amount of time. Some of my fondest memories are from running through task forces with a team built from our SG and RPing the whole way through it.

I have to agree on that. Some of my best memories are actually doing a pickup TF with a bunch of random people and not only kicking butt all the way through, but making new friends while we were at it.

I remember there was a group of us actually crazy enough to do the longest TF in the Shadow Shard with a bunch of strangers. Was one of the most fun experiences I ever had.
Now I certainly don't expect to see TF's that were as long as those Shard ones, but something along the lines of the revamped Positron TF I sure hope we'll see.

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See I wasn't luck enough to

See I wasn't luck enough to get far enough to ever see a TF. But I do hope there are some what are basically the 10 or 25 man raid stuff. Or maybe even some really monster raids. Like 50 people. Depending on what the server could handle in that sense and not have it just an all out Lag Fest. Do we even know how big groups can even be? Like in TOR a normal group is only allowed 4 players. I think CO was 5 or 6. And I remember SWG you could have like 15 people.

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I am hoping that if team

I am hoping that if team forces are going to be part of our new home they change the locked group aspect , as finding a group of 8 to start only to have 1 ,2 or more to leave it would be great to refill the team if others leave

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You know what I REALLY want

You know what I REALLY want to see? I'd like to see the chance to do stuff that no sane team or even raid would do. Remember when a bunch of players got together to shoot down Rikti dropships during one invasion? These things had like 500k Health and they STILL brought some down! No way anyone thought they could do it...but they did. To me THAT'S a real challenge. Throw out 1-2 things that NOBODY should be able to beat no matter what...then see what happens. No badges, normal XP and rewards (which should be a LOT), just bragging rights.

In other words, set the scene and let the players make their own challenges. Face it...we can be some creative people when we try.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

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Comicsluvr wrote:
Comicsluvr wrote:

You know what I REALLY want to see? I'd like to see the chance to do stuff that no sane team or even raid would do. Remember when a bunch of players got together to shoot down Rikti dropships during one invasion? These things had like 500k Health and they STILL brought some down! No way anyone thought they could do it...but they did. To me THAT'S a real challenge. Throw out 1-2 things that NOBODY should be able to beat no matter what...then see what happens. No badges, normal XP and rewards (which should be a LOT), just bragging rights.
In other words, set the scene and let the players make their own challenges. Face it...we can be some creative people when we try.

Finding more ways in game to play. I love that type of stuff.

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Comicsluvr wrote:
Comicsluvr wrote:

Mendicant wrote:
I'd hope that rather than deep-sixing task forces altogether, CoT will just have TFs that are designed around how they were actually used. 8-10 missions tightly linked in a story arc that a team (pre-built or pickup) can run through in a reasonable amount of time. Some of my fondest memories are from running through task forces with a team built from our SG and RPing the whole way through it.

+1
Some of the TF storylines were great!

Oh yeah some of the greatest storylines in the game. Just too bad they were gated behind team requirements and unless in a tight knit SG that didn't bail already, or on freedom or virtue at the small window of peak time and happen across others that are I nthe mood to do that particular TF at that same time, then it was sometimes hard tedious and down right impossible to enjoy those great storylines.

Hopefully, that if TFs are in the game, they are not team gated. Team suggested, sure, but not locked because of some soldier overseas want to play but cant get on at peak time to do it because of time zone differences. Or some person who isn't part of a clique cant do it because its empty time or majority of people are busy farming. Fun in a game should never swing on other people. While other people can enhance the fun, depending on the person, it should never be gated because lack of people.

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Comicsluvr wrote:
Comicsluvr wrote:

You know what I REALLY want to see? I'd like to see the chance to do stuff that no sane team or even raid would do. Remember when a bunch of players got together to shoot down Rikti dropships during one invasion? These things had like 500k Health and they STILL brought some down! No way anyone thought they could do it...but they did. To me THAT'S a real challenge. Throw out 1-2 things that NOBODY should be able to beat no matter what...then see what happens. No badges, normal XP and rewards (which should be a LOT), just bragging rights.
In other words, set the scene and let the players make their own challenges. Face it...we can be some creative people when we try.

In a game called Kingdom of Loathing, near the "final boss", there are six fights against monsters with incredibly high hit points, who do enough damage to one-hit kill any character regardless of level. You're supposed to beat them by using one specific item that each one is vulnerable to (for example, the Flaming Samurai can only be killed with Frigid Ninja Stars - not even other Cold-elemental attacks or items will work). The same for the final boss, who has three forms, the third of which is not supposed to be normally killable except by having a certain item in your inventory, but people found a way to beat it normally.

Someone made it a point to beat them anyway via normal combat mechanics. The devs congratulated him and gave him a special piece of equipment, and then made the bosses harder.

Someone else beat them again, using a different strategy. The devs congratulated that person, too, gave him a special (albeit different - "silver" instead of "gold") item, and then made the bosses harder again.

When people started taking them down left and right (using still another strategy), they stopped awarding anything, but also just shrugged and let it be. The monsters give the same XP whether they're killed the "right" way or not, and it takes a lot of power-leveling plus very expensive gear and combat items to take them down the hard way, so they didn't bother to change them again. (It's still far easier to kill them the right way, which is what most people do, but some players looking for a challenge still sometimes like to do it the hard way)

So I'm all for this. If the player can do it, let them.

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Would be great if team size

Would be great if team size was 10 instead of 8. We played with three generations of friends and family (grandparents, parents and kids) and filled an 8 slot team easily - and found ways to get more people into door mishes, even if the xp went wonky. Even if most groups don't want to have to corral that many people, it would be great if the max *possible* was 10 or so.

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Some of the Task Forces in

Some of the Task Forces in CoH and CoV were simply great, and you wouldn't mind running them with any PuG around. Others were just tedious and PAINFUL to try and get a group together for, and often you'd wind up with an attrition rate of nearly 50% by the time you reached the AV. And then there was Dr. Q out in the Shadow Shard ... the "are we there yet?" TF that took you 4 hours to run from start to finish because it was just so long and repetitive (seriously, the same mission 4 times in a row more than once?). Some of the TFs were things you wanted to do just once to get the Badge and then never see ever again. Others (like Katie Hannon) just got farmed into the ground because they were such a faceroll that you could speed through in almost no time flat.

I definitely agree that the "optimal" length for a TF hovers in the 5-10 missions category. Consider that the Imperius TF that people were running almost all the time was only FOUR missions (although the last two had enough mobs spawning in them to count as two missions each in this regard). In fact, some of my fondest memories involving TF runs involved a Tanker Tuesday where my Ice/Ice Tanker basically stole aggro from seven other Tankers who couldn't pull aggro off me leaving them crying that they couldn't get any aggro! Imagine! Tankers whining about not getting beaten on and free to just DPS everything in sight! Then there were the All Defender TFs and the All Kheldian TFs that I'd sometimes get into, and the way the game played would just be completely upended and be almost like new, simply because of what people would bring to the table.

So TFs being a Group Mission Arc is something that DEFINITELY needs to happen in City of Titans, methinks. Just don't make the mistakes of the Positron and Dr. Q TFs along the way.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Some of the Task Forces in CoH and CoV were simply great, and you wouldn't mind running them with any PuG around. Others were just tedious and PAINFUL to try and get a group together for, and often you'd wind up with an attrition rate of nearly 50% by the time you reached the AV. And then there was Dr. Q out in the Shadow Shard ... the "are we there yet?" TF that took you 4 hours to run from start to finish because it was just so long and repetitive (seriously, the same mission 4 times in a row more than once?). Some of the TFs were things you wanted to do just once to get the Badge and then never see ever again. Others (like Katie Hannon) just got farmed into the ground because they were such a faceroll that you could speed through in almost no time flat.
I definitely agree that the "optimal" length for a TF hovers in the 5-10 missions category. Consider that the Imperius TF that people were running almost all the time was only FOUR missions (although the last two had enough mobs spawning in them to count as two missions each in this regard). In fact, some of my fondest memories involving TF runs involved a Tanker Tuesday where my Ice/Ice Tanker basically stole aggro from seven other Tankers who couldn't pull aggro off me leaving them crying that they couldn't get any aggro! Imagine! Tankers whining about not getting beaten on and free to just DPS everything in sight! Then there were the All Defender TFs and the All Kheldian TFs that I'd sometimes get into, and the way the game played would just be completely upended and be almost like new, simply because of what people would bring to the table.
So TFs being a Group Mission Arc is something that DEFINITELY needs to happen in City of Titans, methinks. Just don't make the mistakes of the Positron and Dr. Q TFs along the way.

Yeah probably why some TFs were hard to form team for and a relative few were open season farming.

I think if TFs are to be team gated, during the beta stage if not before, pay attention to which TFs people gravitate to and play over and over and which TFs become near impossible or even more difficult than the others to form a team for, even after live, and adjust the team requirement accordingly. It's annoying to be team gated behind a 6-8 man TF, but since the other TF that is short and sweet is being farmed to death by everyone, the team can only manage to get 4 people, and end not doing the TF, which means if they want to do a TF they basically must follow everyone else instead of doing what they find enjoyable.

"Well guys look like this isnt happening. Since we are here, want to see if 4 more are interested in doing the ITF for the millionth time?"

Basically it's about planning for the long run. While it might be team galore in the beginning with 200,000-400,000 people running around and the team gated stuff seemed like a veyr good idea. They forget to plan for what happens if or when 5-7 years down the line the population drops, and instead of 400,000 people on at at any given moment, there end up being maybe 20,000 total for the entire day and finding team for certain stuff becomes not aas easy after the initial fanfare wears off? Of course many would make adjustments if it was easy but usually they didnt think that far ahead and thus what should have been easy click of button change end up being work or too much work to bother due to how the game was designed with 200,000 to 400,000 people running around at any given moment and not so much for when it's only 20,000-50,000 people on in a day. What teh end result end up with a select few team gated content being farmed the rest ignored, empty zones, and people leaving the game after getting tired of either having to join the rest of the farmers to get stuff done or forget about that section/feature of the game. Thus game death usually happens soon after. Whether because it's not bringing in enough money, players, or increasingly became unplayable especially for new people that may come across the game due to lack of people and team gated materials. Especially when the team gated material is actually good stuff, well written compared to the normal mission slog of kill this many things and come back", "go across the world speak to this guy and then he'll send you to some other guy, then come back to this side and enter another warehouse or cave and defeat all."

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pretty hard to plan for 7

pretty hard to plan for 7 years hence I'd say
CoX was quite fluid in some areas and then for things like Dr Q TF not so at all
that gives you a catch-22 situation where you don't want to spend time and money on something that nobody is running
they are not running it cos it hasn't had any love for like ever.

at the same time it's not essential and those that do run it get major bragging rights.

I'd be temped to leave that in the game as-is for those that want to do it.

Back to retirement.

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I'm curious. Does it make any

I'm curious. Does it make any sense to make TFs be scalable? Like one TF be limited to a groups 3-10, another 6-18, some 10-25? The scaling technology already exists, right? Seems to me this would allow for situations regarding play-style preference and team availability.

The only difference between a TF and a mission arc would be that a team is required, of whatever size. So, the XP would scale, but you'd get the badge or unique drop or whatever.

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I might amend the above to

I might amend the above to say that it would require the SAME team to complete it. Or some other additional requirement that would help justify the badge or the greater XP, or whatever.

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GH wrote:
GH wrote:

pretty hard to plan for 7 years hence I'd say
CoX was quite fluid in some areas and then for things like Dr Q TF not so at all
that gives you a catch-22 situation where you don't want to spend time and money on something that nobody is running
they are not running it cos it hasn't had any love for like ever.
at the same time it's not essential and those that do run it get major bragging rights.
I'd be temped to leave that in the game as-is for those that want to do it.

Indeed I didn't mind Dr. Q. But the team requirement was killer. Meaning that in many cases even those that wanted to do it even for bragging rights couldn't do it due to lack of interest in other players. Which player interest vary from person to person and it's natural but at the same time though other player interest or lack of shouldn't prevent another player from exercising their interest, even if for bragging right.

I think TFs over all should do away with the team requirement and simply scale to the team instead of the team having to scale to the TF. That way player's interest bragging rights or not is not affected by other player's interest or timing. Of course still though those that prefer teaming can still get a good old fashioned team together and go at it. I'm thinking along the lines of team size is more recommended than required. If someone feel they could take on a 3 man TF by themselves, by all means, let them. Of course though if they do work of a three man team they should be rewarded for three man team. Or if the TF actually scales from 1-8 then so should the reward of course under that system a person could use the diff level to crank it up to their desired difficulty. AKA they an crank t up to 6 man take it on and get the reward scale for 6 man team.

People that wanted to do DR Q could do Dr Q if they chose to even if no one in the entire world was interested in running that 4 hour and up time grind.

Although I havea feeling maybe that not enough population will not be an issue if they go the one sever thing and may increase the chance that at any given moment the right amount of people are interested in that particular TF at that particular time. But it's tsill no guarantee as sometime people gravitate towards the easy quick farmable TFs, which is fine, and those that want to do the others cant if the TF is team gated. Thus they either have a choice if they want to do TF and the choices is short list. If they want to do a TF then they have to do what everyone else is doing, regardless of their enjoyment or end up not being able to partake in that section for the game at all. Of course this is probably non issue with people that know a bunch of people that are always interested in the same thing they are and on at the same time but can be discouraging for people that play at odd hours outside peak times whether it's because they are soldier deployed overseas, don't yet or didn't make a big group of play friends, or new to the game and don't have a large circle of friends yet. Then for them it end up they have to do what ever everyone is doing. Which then ends up with the view that some TFs are being played and no interest in others when in reality there is probably some sort of interest in the TFs but the interest cant be displayed because teams don't form for them often and thus people that are interested in them and don't have group of friends, shy, not social bugs yet, or large of SG where everyone is interested in the same thing at the same time or they cant play at peak hours, cant express their interest thus it go ignored and the interest that is payed attention to is the interest of those with large group of friends or flock to the short farmable TFs and then their interest is taken as that is THE interest of everyone.

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jag40 wrote:
jag40 wrote:

I think TFs over all should do away with the team requirement and simply scale to the team instead of the team having to scale to the TF. That way player's interest bragging rights or not is not affected by other player's interest.

Great, now there's going to have to be 8 badges for Dr. Q to represent the 8 different team sizes you could have for completing the TF ...


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

jag40 wrote:
I think TFs over all should do away with the team requirement and simply scale to the team instead of the team having to scale to the TF. That way player's interest bragging rights or not is not affected by other player's interest.
Great, now there's going to have to be 8 badges for Dr. Q to represent the 8 different team sizes you could have for completing the TF ...

well it still could only be one badge. Completion of the TF regardless of one to 8 people.
Or we can also add some for all defender team one for all fire tank team one for all fire blaster team and one for all claw regen scrapper team and so on :p