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Switching to alts on the go!

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jai jobi khan
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Switching to alts on the go!

Not sure if this has already been discussed. If it has can someone point me to this topic?

Just played marvel alliance 2 an was wondering if being able to switch to alts in the open world be a good thing for Titan?

Task force, instant missions, an PvP should be a no no , but the ability to switch in the open world could be a good thing. Maybe you have characters in your SG that you wanna work on. Instant switch saves those who are pressed for time. It also can cut back on the log in/ log out waiting. Maybe there can be designated zone just for that quick switch purpose. Let me know!

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If I understand what you're

If I understand what you're talking about, you mean to tell me that I could take my "guy who has flying", fly to some remote area, say to get a badge, then switch to "non-flying guy" right there on the spot, get the badge with that guy, who would not have been able to get to that location on his own, at least not in his current state of leveling, etc. If this is what you're talking about, I want to state for the record that I strongly dislike it and think it should absolutely be avoided.

As for the time it takes to log in and out, CoH had a timer that intentionally made that take LONGER than the software would normally take to avoid exploits (e.g. I'm about to get killed, so I log off instead to avoid the death and all of the bad things that come with it, that kind of thing).

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Yeah I'm not against the idea

Yeah I'm not against the idea of "instant alt switches" in theory. But like both you and Radiac implied it would probably have to be so heavily restricted in order to minimize the chances for exploits that it probably would not really be worth it. I suppose they could allow it in very regulated areas (like inside SG/player bases or non-combat social clubs) but I doubt they'd allow it in any kind of "open world" setting.

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So just, instant switch out

So just, instant switch out to character select screen instead of a complete log out?

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

So just, instant switch out to character select screen instead of a complete log out?

I think the OP was after a type of switch that would let them "replace" one alt for another at the same exact in-game location (kind of like how the Matrix Agents could "replace" other people by just jumping into them).

I saw it suggested a few times for CoH as well but it obviously never happened. Again I suspect it would have to be so strongly regulated that its ultimate usefulness would be questionable at best.

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This strikes me as a feature

This strikes me as a feature that falls under the "more trouble than it's worth" category. I'm hard pressed to think of a situation where the Quality of Life generated by such a service outweighs the potential for myriad routes towards exploitation (especially of the "HA ha! You fell for my disguise!" variety).

The closest I'd want to get to this kind of a feature would be allow a switch between Super ID and Secret ID. Changing alts? Go (out) to the character selection menu (and zone back into the game).

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
So just, instant switch out to character select screen instead of a complete log out?

I think the OP was after a type of switch that would let them "replace" one alt for another at the same exact in-game location (kind of like how the Matrix Agents could "replace" other people by just jumping into them).
I saw it suggested a few times for CoH as well but it obviously never happened. Again I suspect it would have to be so strongly regulated that its ultimate usefulness would be questionable at best.

Yeah. Sounds like something not really worth it, and where you'd want it, would seem unfair to use it.

jai jobi khan
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Man you guys can poke holes

Man you guys can poke holes through a good idea! Lol .The SG switch inside your base could be good. No way to exploit there, plus it allows me to stay in game. I wasn't thinking about the badges at the time when I posted, but I do agree with most of the statements above. Just too caught up in the idea I suppose! So... area specific then(SG base, hospital,zone entry) is a go? *** stands behind Lothic for more incoming fire***

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jai jobi khan wrote:
jai jobi khan wrote:

Man you guys can poke holes through a good idea! Lol .The SG switch inside your base could be good. No way to exploit there, plus it allows me to stay in game. I wasn't thinking about the badges at the time when I posted, but I do agree with most of the statements above. Just too caught up in the idea I suppose! So... area specific then(SG base, hospital,zone entry) is a go? *** stands behind Lothic for more incoming fire***

Who said I was bulletproof? I'm a part-time Devil's Advocate, not a martyr... ;)

Just because I could see a limited possibility for something like this to work in fairly safe/controlled areas still doesn't necessarily mean the Devs would ever allow it. Again it's not that it's a "bad idea" in abstract. I just don't think you fully considered all the ways it could be exploited or the reasons why the Devs specifically made it take a relatively long time to switch out characters in the first place. The logout delay was itself an anti-exploit measure that I strongly suspect will exist in CoT as well.

For what it's worth the one cool RP use for this kind of thing would be to "simulate" a shapechanging character. You could have several alts who all represented different forms of a single character that could be quickly swapped in and out as needed. But sadly I can accept that this one interesting use of this feature hardly makes up for all the other problems it would generate for the game in general.

P.S. Don't think of this as "we're just poking holes in your idea". This is more like the same constructive criticism the Devs themselves would apply to this suggestion before it was considered sturdy enough to be included in a game like this.

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To be honest, I try to poke

To be honest, I try to poke holes in everything. You should see the ceiling in my bedroom.... :)

A friend of mine told me apparently there was at least one MUD that had a "switch characters on the fly" ability like this in the heyday of MUDing. It sounded abuseable to me when he told me about it too, and the rest of the story revolved around how him and his friend used it to finally managed to defeat this "like totally undefeatable" person in PVP, only to discover, when picking through the loot, that the "undefeatable person" had apparently gotten gear that basically didn't exist, but for the one copy she had, which they then assumed she got by being romantically involved with one of the game's programmers. Funny story. They apparently kept the "uber loot" for themselves ultimately.

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I like this idea, but i see

I like this idea, but i see others exploiting it.

I like the idea only because it would mean, if im playing on by blaster and die... and the team is going to wipe in the next minute, i want to switch to a Tank and NOT HAVE TO ZONE from Praetoria all the way to Steel Canyon.

If they had the OPTION to (when i log out and LOG BACK in, Enable the checkbox to log my other toon into SAME ZONE (on the Character Select Screen) and the same location as my Blaster just departed from, im ok with that. ;)

I know, it would mean your Day Job points would get a Fee deduction for not logging back in to the same zone/location, but hey... you Gotza Do Whddaaa Ya Gotza Do.! ;)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

I like this idea, but i see others exploiting it.
I like the idea only because it would mean, if im playing on by blaster and die... and the team is going to wipe in the next minute, i want to switch to a Tank and NOT HAVE TO ZONE from Praetoria all the way to Steel Canyon.
If they had the OPTION to (when i log out and LOG BACK in, Enable the checkbox to log my other toon into SAME ZONE (on the Character Select Screen) and the same location as my Blaster just departed from, im ok with that. ;)
I know, it would mean your Day Job points would get a Fee deduction for not logging back in to the same zone/location, but hey... you Gotza Do Whddaaa Ya Gotza Do.! ;)

I understand that on some level that might be nice. But when you break it down the only real challenge for playing a game like this in a cooperative team is to know how to work well enough together to avoid team wipes the old-fashion way - by not dying in the first place.

If the game made it too simple to swap out any alt you need on the spot instantly then it would remove one of the few reasons to have to play smartly. I guess what I'm saying is a game like this is usually easy enough - why do we need to make it even easier? Being able to do this in PvE situations would be bad enough - do I even have to mention how insane this would be if we could do it during PvP? ;)

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Actually ... think about this

Actually ... think about this in even narrower terms, and what you'd have to do (as a Developer) in order to avoid exploitation.

Suppose Players had the ability to switch in an Alternate Build on their characters, on the fly, without needing to visit an NPC in order to do so. Never mind switching from Tanker to Controller to Scrapper to Defender to Blaster kinds of insta-swapping of different characters ... just swapping in and out of Alternate Builds on a single character, whenever you want to, as easily as changing your costume. I'd submit that even allowing insta-swapping to Alternate Builds on a single character would have a variety of unintended consequences, especially once the Min/Max Crowd latches onto it and starts exploiting the quick swap feature for everything it's worth.

I just look at this Quality of Life feature (as proposed) as a potential boondoggle for Game Balance overall, even if not taken to the extremes of allowing "free" instant respecs at no cost and without limit at any time like Diablo III did. Being able to alter what your character "can do" while out in the field (ie. during Missions) has a remarkably high potential for destabilization for all kinds of things that impact how characters "perform" under pressure ... hence why I am so leery of the myriad unforeseen possibilities such a feature would represent.

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Changing characters at a base

Changing characters at a base/lair instead of having to log out would be fine I think, but doesn't significantly add anything to QoL as far as I can tell. It would be a minor convenience, and if it comes at only a minor cost in programming or server resources. . . ::shrug::

OTH, I like the alternate build thing the way DC Universe does it. However, that's based on a core design principle that you only have a limited number of powers in your tray at a given time. You're acquiring new powers all the time, but you can only "slot" a certain amount of them. This lets you go from a "damage" role to a "support" role in a blink. Like swapping trays, essentially. Seems to work.

If it seems necessary to limit that even more, what if the alternate build swap could only happen outside an instanced mission? So if you're kinda doing ok with your current build, it's not worth going all the way out to change. But if you die (and presumably re-spawn at the mission entrance) you could "step outside", reset your build and go back in, hopefully with better survivability. Then, maybe re-slotting all your builds, that is re-arranging all your powers in their respective trays, could only be done at lair/base.

Really, this is so entangled with how the core mechanic will work it's hard to speculate constructively without considering both at the same time.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

... in a cooperative team is to know how to work well enough together to avoid team wipes the old-fashion way - by not dying in the first place.

:rolls eyes: :)

I should have you Vet Out my teammates before i hop on a PUG. :D

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

Changing characters at a base/lair instead of having to log out would be fine I think, but doesn't significantly add anything to QoL as far as I can tell. It would be a minor convenience, and if it comes at only a minor cost in programming or server resources. . . ::shrug::
OTH, I like the alternate build thing the way DC Universe does it. However, that's based on a core design principle that you only have a limited number of powers in your tray at a given time. You're acquiring new powers all the time, but you can only "slot" a certain amount of them. This lets you go from a "damage" role to a "support" role in a blink. Like swapping trays, essentially. Seems to work.

I don't think I'd have trouble with a system that would let you switch "roles" on the fly so that you could be more offensive or defensive as you choose. But the reason why that works is that as a single character you are still limited by your core build and class. Sure you could switch from being an "offensive Tank" to a "defensive Tank" but there's not going to be any way an offensive Tank is going to do more damage than a typical Blaster and likewise there's not going to be anyone who could be more defensive than a Tank who's in a total defensive mode. The spectrum of difference between roles is small enough to remain balanced.

On the other hand if I could switch alts in place (like an Agent from the Matrix movies) from being a super-tough Tank to a squishy Blaster/Controller or vice-versa at will then as a player I'd in effect become a multi-headed Tank Mage capable of being able to handle any situation with the best possible character at any given moment. This would effectively circumvent any weakness any one type of build would have in any given situation - a scenario that no Dev in their right mind would allow players to get away with. The whole challenge to playing games like this is learning how to maximize your strengths and overcome your weaknesses. Being free to insta-switch alts (or at least making it very easy to do so) totally destroys that fundamental paradigm.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Lothic wrote:
... in a cooperative team is to know how to work well enough together to avoid team wipes the old-fashion way - by not dying in the first place.

:rolls eyes: :)
I should have you Vet Out my teammates before i hop on a PUG. :D

Like it's MY fault you ever wasted time with crappy PUGs... ;)

If you need to argue for the ability to let the game let you be a Tank Mage just so that you don't have to worry about playing with good tactics and teamwork then I think you need to rethink how you play these games.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Actually ... think about this in even narrower terms, and what you'd have to do (as a Developer) in order to avoid exploitation.
Suppose Players had the ability to switch in an Alternate Build on their characters, on the fly, without needing to visit an NPC in order to do so. Never mind switching from Tanker to Controller to Scrapper to Defender to Blaster kinds of insta-swapping of different characters ... just swapping in and out of Alternate Builds on a single character, whenever you want to, as easily as changing your costume. I'd submit that even allowing insta-swapping to Alternate Builds on a single character would have a variety of unintended consequences, especially once the Min/Max Crowd latches onto it and starts exploiting the quick swap feature for everything it's worth.
I just look at this Quality of Life feature (as proposed) as a potential boondoggle for Game Balance overall, even if not taken to the extremes of allowing "free" instant respecs at no cost and without limit at any time like Diablo III did. Being able to alter what your character "can do" while out in the field (ie. during Missions) has a remarkably high potential for destabilization for all kinds of things that impact how characters "perform" under pressure ... hence why I am so leery of the myriad unforeseen possibilities such a feature would represent.

Wildstar allows this to happen at any time when you are out of combat.

Not only can you change your gear (recommended if you are changing roles), but you can also change your whole entire skill layout as well (as well as how you have tiered them up on top,and you can change that easily enough as well).

Only advantage is that you can save 4 "builds" at any point in time, and still tweak them as and when you want.

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

Redlynne wrote:
Actually ... think about this in even narrower terms, and what you'd have to do (as a Developer) in order to avoid exploitation.
Suppose Players had the ability to switch in an Alternate Build on their characters, on the fly, without needing to visit an NPC in order to do so. Never mind switching from Tanker to Controller to Scrapper to Defender to Blaster kinds of insta-swapping of different characters ... just swapping in and out of Alternate Builds on a single character, whenever you want to, as easily as changing your costume. I'd submit that even allowing insta-swapping to Alternate Builds on a single character would have a variety of unintended consequences, especially once the Min/Max Crowd latches onto it and starts exploiting the quick swap feature for everything it's worth.
I just look at this Quality of Life feature (as proposed) as a potential boondoggle for Game Balance overall, even if not taken to the extremes of allowing "free" instant respecs at no cost and without limit at any time like Diablo III did. Being able to alter what your character "can do" while out in the field (ie. during Missions) has a remarkably high potential for destabilization for all kinds of things that impact how characters "perform" under pressure ... hence why I am so leery of the myriad unforeseen possibilities such a feature would represent.

Wildstar allows this to happen at any time when you are out of combat.
Not only can you change your gear (recommended if you are changing roles), but you can also change your whole entire skill layout as well (as well as how you have tiered them up on top,and you can change that easily enough as well).
Only advantage is that you can save 4 "builds" at any point in time, and still tweak them as and when you want.

Does Wildstar have fixed character classes with skill trees totally unique to those classes? If it does then I can see why it might let you tinker with your skill tree build at any time.

The main concept is this: If you're a Blaster in CoH I don't really care so much if you're able to switch between Blaster power A and Blaster power B whenever you want because afterall those are both still Blaster powers tied to your Blaster AT. But if you were able to swap out your entire class instantly (like you would be able to via switching to another alt) then you'd be effectively switching your Blaster power A with say Tank power B or Controller power C. See the big difference there?

There's a fundamental, orders-of-magnitude difference between a game allowing you to instantly switch around powers contained within specific character classes and/or skill trees and being able to jump beyond that to switch instantly to ANY powerset in the game via switching alts.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Does Wildstar have fixed character classes with skill trees totally unique to those classes? If it does then I can see why it might let you tinker with your skill tree build at any time.
The main concept is this: If you're a Blaster in CoH I don't really care so much if you're able to switch between Blaster power A and Blaster power B whenever you want because afterall those are both still Blaster powers tied to your Blaster AT. But if you were able to swap out your entire class instantly (like you would be able to via switching to another alt) then you'd be effectively switching your Blaster power A with say Tank power B or Controller power C. See the big difference there?
There's a funamental, orders-of-magnitude difference between a game allowing you to instantly switch around powers contained within specific character classes and/or skill trees and being able to jump beyond that to switch instantly to ANY powerset in the game via switching alts.

I was more replying to what Red was going on about (in terms of being able to flick abilities/builds on the fly).

For Wildstar you can only use (upto) 8 abilities from you character tree at any one point in time. So I could be a tank, or I could be a ranged DPS, or I could be a mix of the two (for example).

I can choose to spend my skill points as and how I want, remove them, put them into other skills as and when I want. AMP points (which are another area of character skill setup is more fixed, but you can respec those as well apparently)

And it isnt at the "tinker level" of stuff... there is a LOT that you can change. Think of it as being able to change your *slotting* for enhancements in CoX levels whenever you want, and which abilities you want to use.

And yes, each of the 6 classes do have their own unique skills, and whilst you can say "well a heal is a heal", some are more limited than others (stationary healing, pin point healing, area healing... each healer has different variations) (just like the ranged DPS abilities are not just limited to the "range DPS" class, they just have MORE of them available)

What the OP wanted, is something that I am not all too keen on. More because it just doesn't seem to sit right in the game world.

If there was a perfectly suitable explanation, with limitations for it (ie can only alt swap once per hour and it has to be at certain locations on the map), that I could get more along with.

But the whole "swap Character A for character B on your roster", is something that I would have problems with.

*edit* Actually what you say in your example even more powerful, because the way in which you put it (although this isn't what you are intending) is that you are changing certain skills for others, whilst retaining the remaining choices and pro's and con's for the original class.

I know that isn't quite what you intended, but that is how it came across.

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

But the whole "swap Character A for character B on your roster", is something that I would have problems with.

Right because again it would effectively let you, the player, play as a multi--headed Tank Mage. You'd get all the benefits of playing with the best class in the right situation without any of the downsides that are inherent in a structured MMO class system. A clearer example of "exploit" almost isn't possible in this case.

Gangrel wrote:

*edit* Actually what you say in your example even more powerful, because the way in which you put it (although this isn't what you are intending) is that you are changing certain skills for others, whilst retaining the remaining choices and pro's and con's for the original class.
I know that isn't quite what you intended, but that is how it came across.

When I say switching from "Blaster power X" to "Tank power Y" that was under the premise that switching from one alt to another effectively let's you play as a single "character" who exists as multiple alts with as many different powersets at its disposal as you wish. When boiled down it's basically like playing one character who is a combined Tank, Blaster, Scrapper, Defender, Scrapper, etc. all rolled into one.

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I think this is a good idea

I think this is a good idea if we limit it (as others have said) to 'safe zones':
- Auction House
- Base
- Training Area
- Costume Change Area
- any location where "invasion" event foes don't appear

So for example (using CoH):
Atlas Park at any random location = no
Atlas Park Station/AH/Trainer = yes (note that during an invasion the Trainer area was able to be invaded so during an invasion event sitting next to Ms Liberty would disallow "Quick Alt Swapping")

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I simply don't support the

I simply don't support the idea. Storyline should follow the characters.. switching mid play (even in solely out of combat situations) is against my ideals of keeping the story for one character moving from where they left off.

This is beyond the technical problems seen in MANY games when "build swapping" occurs.

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I simply don't support the

I simply don't support the idea. Storyline should follow the characters.. switching mid play (even in solely out of combat situations) is against my ideals of keeping the story for one character moving from where they left off.

This is beyond the technical problems seen in MANY games when "build swapping" occurs.

Crowd Control Enthusiast

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Seems the focus is keeping

Seems the focus is keeping exploitation players in line an I do agree with that. Tank mages on the fly were not my intent. I was hoping to make the quality of life ingame a little better with character "quick switch" in a controlled manner so to speak. I guess exploitation is a huge thing in the mmo community. I was looking at it from a solo player view( well my own anyway) figuring that boredom comes over all characters at some point an if I wanted to switch. I'd select who I want an pick up from were I dropped off with that hero minus the load screen. Maybe if it was not possible in combat/ combat area(PvP/ instance) it could be a solid improvement. If it were set up to be "exploit proof" then it could potentially be a win!

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jai jobi khan wrote:
jai jobi khan wrote:

Seems the focus is keeping exploitation players in line an I do agree with that. Tank mages on the fly were not my intent. I was hoping to make the quality of life ingame a little better with character "quick switch" in a controlled manner so to speak. I guess exploitation is a huge thing in the mmo community. I was looking at it from a solo player view( well my own anyway) figuring that boredom comes over all characters at some point an if I wanted to switch. I'd select who I want an pick up from were I dropped off with that hero minus the load screen. Maybe if it was not possible in combat/ combat area(PvP/ instance) it could be a solid improvement. If it were set up to be "exploit proof" then it could potentially be a win!

A load screen is really that big of a deal? o.O

It's also not hard for you to log out, log back in, and get to whatever pvp map you were in before. :p

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If the dev time is not too

If the dev time is not too much Id like there to be a quick switch option that simply moved me to my selected character wherever I left them.
Example:
Alt A = Atlas Park
Alt B = Pocket D

I am on Alt A in Alas Park and want to swap to another character. I use the Quick Switch and select Alt B and the game loads into Pocket D.
No need to exit the game, wait for that to end, select my character, etc etc.

Is this a HUGE problem - not at all. But it is a nice QoL improvement/request :)

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

A load screen is really that big of a deal? o.O
It's also not hard for you to log out, log back in, and get to whatever pvp map you were in before. :p

I think most players don't understand the authentication process on the character server (not just that map server) loading ALL the different options that that character has that are unique to them.

If people want ALL their alts loaded up at one time (slowing down ALL the rest of the game and everyone else in it) then by all means.. but the reason for most games' logout is to give the server the chance to upload the new character as batch recall programming instead of online "pick sections from the larger options loaded".

I don't know the server structure but I fully expect the character and user authentication server to be related if not directly correlated with an @handle

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As much as I would like to

-Yes its a big deal when my pockets are effected over long periods of time. I could be using that money for many other things. The game doesn't exist. Just the topic so ATM, not a big deal.

- if switching characters effected everyone to the point of slowing the game down. I would gracefully bow out on the topic.

-SG super computer/ cerebro style tracker could be a win. You buy device for your personal SG. You click button on super computer that brings up a display of all the zones/panel of all created heroes names. Each hero highlighted over shows a pic,small bio,rank/threat lvl, highlighted zone of the heroes last location.
Click hero an watch game sequence of current hero tracking/ communicating with new hero while game loads/unloads what needs to be done. Once load is complete the sequence jumps to the screen zooming in on pin pointed location on super map till it becomes a Satellite/ birds eye view. It(your pov) then drops in to a skydiving sequence till it reaches the selected hero circling around him while loading everything that's needed.

- When Christopher Reeves aka the real superman flew in space with the"I awesome" look on his face at the end of movies, you loved it. It made you feel like you were a hero for just witnessing that! I'm all for soild visuals while I'm not playing the game. Standing in one spot waiting for countdown could be...improved.

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When pockets are effected?

When pockets are effected? You lost me. You think a 5 second load screen is so long it's costing you money?

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My loading screen was way

My loading screen was way longer than 5 sec. What I'm saying is that I don't want to pay for something with sub par quality. I'm the type of person that values my time over anything. If the load screens are required so be it. I simply asked to be entertain while I wait. Time is money!!

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jai jobi khan wrote:
jai jobi khan wrote:

Standing in one spot waiting for countdown could be...improved.

jai jobi khan wrote:

My loading screen was way longer than 5 sec. What I'm saying is that I don't want to pay for something with sub par quality. I'm the type of person that values my time over anything. If the load screens are required so be it. I simply asked to be entertain while I wait. Time is money!!

You do ultimately understand you're asking for a "Quality of Life" improvement that's in direct opposition to an anti-exploit feature don't you?

The only real reason the game arbitrarily forced us to wait for a long logout was to PREVENT people from doing things like effectively instantly switching alts to allow for the virtural Tank Magery discussed above. Why would the Devs ever want to "fix" something that worked the way it worked on purpose? Sometimes we have to accept passive game controls like this (even if they are slightly annoying) in order to make sure people can't do bad or unintended things.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

... in order to make sure people can't do bad or unintended things.

Hey.. there shouldnt be anything wrong with me trying to play on my blaster once in a while. :(
Is it my fault the PUG team doesnt know what they are doing a wipes every 3rd group into the mish. Damn Circle of Thorns. >:P
after 20 minutes of letting them croak again and again, I wanna help the team out and Alt to my Willpower tank. Is that so bad?

Side note:
What the heck is a Tank Mage?
I dont know... but are you saying a Tank shouldt be a crowd Controller? I always heard that phrase but never asked what a Tank Mage really was. Maybe i didnt want to know! ;D

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Might as well throw in my two

Might as well throw in my two cents. Okay some characters in comics switch builds. Ben 10 (and following shows) is one, Max Steel another cartoon, Dial H for Hero is a comic that does that. So the idea of heroes switching builds isn't grounded in base. Being able to switch Alts would allow characters like that to be made. Of course many pointed out flaws and exploits.

So how about this. You can quick switch only once for x amount of time. So yes I can change Alt on the fly, but I have to play that alt for say half an hour before I can quick switch again. If the time limit not up then you have to do the long log out and log in route.

That would prevent some exploits.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Lothic wrote:
... in order to make sure people can't do bad or unintended things.

Hey.. there shouldnt be anything wrong with me trying to play on my blaster once in a while. :(
Is it my fault the PUG team doesnt know what they are doing a wipes every 3rd group into the mish. Damn Circle of Thorns. >:P
after 20 minutes of letting them croak again and again, I wanna help the team out and Alt to my Willpower tank. Is that so bad?

If you're on a PUG which keeps wiping over the course of 20+ minutes you'd have plenty of time to log off the normal way and fetch your alt (the normal way) to help out without needing any fancy "instant alt switchout" feature. Just saying...

Izzy wrote:

Side note:
What the heck is a Tank Mage?
I dont know... but are you saying a Tank shouldt be a crowd Controller? I always heard that phrase but never asked what a Tank Mage really was. Maybe i didnt want to know! ;D

The phrase "Tank Mage" is a classic RPG gaming term which (usually negatively) refers to a single overpowered god-like character who can do by themselves almost anything a group of several standard characters working together can accomplish. Thus the image of a highly combat/defense oriented character (Tank) who also wields strong offensive/control powers at the same time (Mage).

Most of the time game systems usually try to prevent players from becoming too overpowered like that because it undermines the game's overall balance - if one character can do anything then not only is the game too easy for them but they also no longer need any other players' help to do anything.

In the context of this thread if you could quickly switch out alts like you suggest then you'd have yourself a "poor man's" Tank Mage in that you could have any class of alt needed in any situation within a few seconds. You'd have as much defensive or offensive power as you'd want without the built-in strategic weaknesses that we're all supposed to deal with in a class-based character system.

If you're playing a Tank you're not supposed to be able to "switch" to having Blaster level damage instantly; likewise if you're playing a squishy Controller you're not supposed to be able to instantly have Tank defense levels "just because you need them at that moment". The tactical fundamentals of this game (and really almost any MMO) dictate that you work with your strengths and weaknesses of your character's class in the moment of combat - you're not supposed to just be able "switch" them up whenever it's convenient.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

What the heck is a Tank Mage?

[url=http://cometgirlblog.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/all-hail-the-tank-mage/]Tank Mage[/url]

TL;DR version: the existence of Tank Mages is bad for game balance.

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

Might as well throw in my two cents. Okay some characters in comics switch builds. Ben 10 (and following shows) is one, Max Steel another cartoon, Dial H for Hero is a comic that does that. So the idea of heroes switching builds isn't grounded in base. Being able to switch Alts would allow characters like that to be made. Of course many pointed out flaws and exploits.
So how about this. You can quick switch only once for x amount of time. So yes I can change Alt on the fly, but I have to play that alt for say half an hour before I can quick switch again. If the time limit not up then you have to do the long log out and log in route.
That would prevent some exploits.

I already mentioned that this alt swapping idea might be useful to allow for "shapeshifting" heroes (like your examples) eariler in this thread. But I already also pointed out that I don't think the idea is worthy/legitimate enough to allow the game-breaking exploitive downsides to be allowed.

And even if you restricted it to only one "alt swap" every 30 minutes you'd still be allowing a potential exploit once every 30 minutes and render it practically insignificant for many combat situations much less RP opportunities. There's really almost no way to reasonably constrain the use of an "instant alt swap" and not leave it open for some kind of abuse.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

...Thus the image of a highly combat/defense oriented character (Tank) who also wields strong offensive/control powers at the same time (Mage).

Ohhh... Kheldians to the rescue! ;D

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Lothic wrote:
...Thus the image of a highly combat/defense oriented character (Tank) who also wields strong offensive/control powers at the same time (Mage).
Ohhh... Kheldians to the rescue! ;D

And did you ever wonder why a Squid was never quite as good as a standard Blaster, or why a Dwarf was never quite as good as a standard Tank, or why the Human-form was not even as good as most Defenders and why when Kheldians first appeared they had a massive weakness to Negative Energy? ;)

Kheldians were an attempt to provide a BALANCED version of a Tank Mage. We can let the ages decide if it actually worked as intended.

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This has jumped way left

This has jumped way left field! I'll just wait till we get a little further on the CoT progression bar. Maybe something to stand on being that it's not CoX. Arguing about possibilities that I don't control is laughable at best.

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Think about this from the

Think about this from the standpoint of the Archvilllain your team is fighting. If you were, say, Lord Recluse, you'd be fighting a group of heroes each and every one of whom has the ability to instantaneously become someone else with different powers, etc. So basically you're fighting like 8 bodies each of which has effectively quadruple hit points and like EVERY superpower. Does that sound even remotely fair, or even remotely challenging for the heroes?

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Does that sound even remotely fair, or even remotely challenging for the heroes?

Only if they swap themselves into [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark]Sharks That Jump[/url] when you shoot lazers at them.

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If this is what anyone thinks

If this is what anyone thinks I'm trying to accomplish by this point. I can only assume you haven't read any of my post. Or you're just reading it selectively. No worries...."I'm on to the next one!"

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