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Superteam costume ?

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TitansCity
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Superteam costume ?

In CoX, if you remember, we could set a set of colours for the superteam costume. Each member could use this set to make is own costume.

As CoT will put the cursor on an extrem customization could we imagine that :

  • the superteam can have this colour set system ?
  • the owner of the superteam could buy costume pieces to let the member use the pieces to make a superteam costume (in addition or not) to his/her/its own pieces of costume and only available in a superteam mode ?
  • the superteam could fix some pieces as mandatory pieces of the superteam costume set ? as emblem, hat, cloak, or even gloves or boots ? maybe like 1 or 2 pieces mandatory which are more accesories than master pieces of the costume
  • the superteam could set a battle cry for all the members ?

Just wonder and questionning on what is already decide for the superteams ^^

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That'd be kind of awesome to

That'd be kind of awesome to have costume pieces Essentially be on loan when your in a super team. Like only usable in the super team costume slot, and only while you're on that team.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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There was a short thread last

There was a short thread last year on this topic. The sentiment was similar, and here is an exchange I think would be relevant today as well:

Huckleberry wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

In regards to SG colors the way it worked in CoH is the best way to do it imo, it gives a very easy way to "supply" a unified color-scheme but doesn't force it upon anyone. Personally though I would like to have it extended so the SG can also set a "clothing style" for members to use, with possibility for slight variations.

I agree. Something like a SG uniform creator where there could be a mannikin representing an average character. Put a costume on it consisting of the basic clothing parts: headgear, chest, shoulders, gloves, belt, legs, shoes, and especially an emblem and a cape. So that way, everyone in the supergroup has the option of wearing one or more of those items.
It would be great if joining a SG automatically gave you an additional costume change. That way you could have a costume just for SG colors/uniforms. And if there are people who do not want to wear any of the uniform parts, they could just use the SG colors instead. Besides, an additional costume slot would be a nice incentive for people to join a SG even if they have no intention of using it to wear SG colors or uniform pieces.

And another idea hinted at in other threads but not fully expressed is that if you wear something guild-specific, your guild should get some of the reputation you earn while wearing it. I don't think it should be as little as just making your gloves a guild color, but I don't think it should be as much as adopting the entire guild set either. Perhaps if each characteristic of the guild uniform has a point value, you get credit for "flying your guild flag" if you meet a minimum point threshold.

An additional guild uniform item we should consider is a banner of some sort. I am thinking of the modern version of the feudal Japanese sashimono

But let's kick it up a notch to be appropriate to our setting. Wildstar projects your guild logos as holograms:

and that's the kind of direction I think we can go with this. You should be able to select magical, technological, psychic or traditional means of flying your banner. And when you do, the point total threshold for guild reputation rewards would be automatically met.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Wildstar projects your guild logos as holograms:

Oooooooh ... me likey!


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TitansCity
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

But let's kick it up a notch to be appropriate to our setting. Wildstar projects your guild logos as holograms:
and that's the kind of direction I think we can go with this. You should be able to select magical, technological, psychic or traditional means of flying your banner. And when you do, the point total threshold for guild reputation rewards would be automatically met.

We could imagine lots of things different from banners. A little minion which follow you without attacking, an hologram of the symbol guild on the side of one shoulder, a prop which is linked to the guild with the colours of the guild, a particular style of weapon which are available only for superteam (even if i think thats not a good idea since some people will maybe not in a superteam and so will not have access to this kind of weapon... but whatever, it could be a way to push people to join a guild ^^),it could also be a particuliar "tatoo" on the face, and so on.

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

We could imagine lots of things different from banners. A little minion which follow you without attacking, an hologram of the symbol guild on the side of one shoulder, a prop which is linked to the guild with the colours of the guild, a particular style of weapon which are available only for superteam (even if i think thats not a good idea since some people will maybe not in a superteam and so will not have access to this kind of weapon... but whatever, it could be a way to push people to join a guild ^^),it could also be a particuliar "tatoo" on the face, and so on.

I like all those ideas. Brainstorming like this is fun.

You say "weapon" but we could be talking about any kind of prop, right? I can definitely see some guilds using certain props. Like a Marvel's Lanterns themed guild all with glowing rings, for instance. Or some guild that uses scepters (I'm thinking of you, magical girls), or ioun stones, or anything a prop could be.

Re: Tattoos. I wonder if we could make tattoos costume items instead of just character body elements? And by asking this question, I am assuming that there will be a difference between a character's body elements and a character's costume elements, such that costume elements can be shared without overriding the body elements of the receiving character. Maybe that's a big assumption.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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... a peasant guy following

... a peasant guy following you around clapping coconut halves ...


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

... a peasant guy following you around clapping coconut halves ...

OMG you win the internet today.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

... a peasant guy following you around clapping coconut halves ...

OMG you win the internet today.

You must be a hero since you haven't got sh*te all over.

Be Well!
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King, eh? Well I didn't vote

King, eh? Well I didn't vote for you.

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I told you, Missing Worlds

I told you, Missing Worlds Media are an anarcho-syndicalist commune. They take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week, but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two thirds majority in the case of...

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Yes, yes, alright.

Yes, yes, alright.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

... a peasant guy following you around clapping coconut halves ...

AHAHAH
Nice idea ^^

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Re: Tattoos. I wonder if we could make tattoos costume items instead of just character body elements? And by asking this question, I am assuming that there will be a difference between a character's body elements and a character's costume elements, such that costume elements can be shared without overriding the body elements of the receiving character. Maybe that's a big assumption.

This is an interesting point. We already know the Devs of CoT intend to allow us save two different kinds of files for our characters: costume files and "body slider" files. But that does beg the question since the two types of files will likely contain unique data how will things like tattoos be handled. Are tattoos going to be considered body data or costume data?

If I had to guess tattoos will likely be handled as costume data the same way things like eye shadow, lipstick and fingernail polish options would probably be considered "costume" details. I think the "body slider" files will be strictly limited to physical body shape/size customization and have nothing to do with anything that would be considered literally "cosmetic" in nature. The only exception to this might be body skin color which could be argued to be data that could go in either type of save file.

Perhaps in a completely perfect game things like tattoos, makeup and body skin color could be handled by BOTH kinds of files so that a player could pick and choose which of these details are "costume specific" or "body specific". But my guess is that CoT will have to hardwire each of these things into one type of file or the other to make the implementation easier. Based on this compromise I expect to see tattoos/makeup/skin color being in the costume files. Maybe (again in a perfect game) there should be a THIRD type of save file for anything skin-related (tattoos, make-up, skin color) so that these things could be saved independently of any other costume -or- body data.

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What about a character's eyes

What about a character's eyes? There was in the concept art for varying eye styles are they costume or body? Also makes me wonder about skin colors and such. One would think that "Body slider" might only govern your character's proportions and everything else is technically costume.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

What about a character's eyes? There was in the concept art for varying eye styles are they costume or body? Also makes me wonder about skin colors and such. One would think that "Body slider" might only govern your character's proportions and everything else is technically costume.

Right. So where does one draw the line? Or would we? If I had a fishbowl for a head, and a pegleg, would that be my body or my costume?

I ask because I don't even know where I would draw the line. I suppose for simplicity you just make it all costume, even the body sliders, and call it a day. I have to include body sliders because I remember creating a stalker in CoV named "no see-um" who looked like a gnat.

I did it by changing all the head sliders to really make that jester mask into a probiscus. Those sliders were as much of the costume as the mask was.

But then we come back to the whole "how do you share a costume" question?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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The line betwixt costume and

The line betwixt costume and body varies from character to character.

Which would make any sort of manikin be really strange, unless you could load both a body and a costume onto one. And even then would it get eyes, tattoos, and the like?

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Probably the easiest way to

Probably the easiest way to think about it is in "computer" terms. The Body Sliders adjust the "skeleton" of the model. Costume adjusts what body/costume parts get put onto that "skeleton" of the body.

In this case, the "skeleton" simply describes where all the joints are, how much articulation those joints are allowed to have, their positioning relative to each other, and so on. It's not a direct correlation to an actual (bone) skeleton, but it's close enough for computer programming purposes to think of it that way. When a character moves and/or poses, what's happening is the adjustment of the "skeleton" underneath everything to describe the movements that are being done. So a lot of the sliders involved do things like lengthen/shorten parts of the body (legs, arms, abdominals, head, etc.).

The costume controls what gets put onto the "skeleton" where. So in the case of a flesh leg and a peg leg below the knee, the only differences are that the peg leg doesn't have an "ankle" per se (easily dealt with by locking the ankle to align perfectly with the lower leg so as to make the ankle a "non-issue") and the difference of appearance (flesh versus wood). Same deal with hooks instead of hands and masks that have a proboscis. All of these elements are things that get overlaid onto the "skeleton" that is controlling the movements underneath.

Easiest way to think about it is ... does an element control appearance or motion? If it's a visual appearance thing, it's Costume. If it's a motion thing, it's a "skeleton" thing.


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I remember joining Emerald

I remember joining Emerald Fusion's team Fusion Force with one of my toons back in the day. They had their own website complete with a guide that told you how to make the SG uniform. I think that was way better than the SG colors thing CoX had. In the first place not everyone cares about making thier costume look like the team uniform, and those people are going to ignore a SG costume tool just as much as they would ignore anything else. The people who DO want to make their costume look like the SG will put the time in to do it in the costume creator (because in my opinion that's what that's for) and will end up with way better results for their efforts.

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Again we already know (based

Again we already know (based on what's been said by the Devs) that we are going to have two kinds of character data save files: costume and body slider. Unless the Devs have changed their minds about that that's what we definitely know is happening. The question of course is what types of data will be stored by these two file types.

We already mentioned there are plenty of things that could arguably belong in either file type including:

  • skin color
  • eye color (I forgot about this one earlier)
  • eye shadow/makeup
  • lip coloring
  • fingernail polish
  • tattoos
  • atypical heads/limbs (i.e. peg legs)

For the sake of simplicity I'm guessing the only thing that'll be in the "body slider" files will be the values of the physical body sliders. Seems like a simple enough compromise to me. Everything else listed above will likely end up being declared a "costume option" for the sake of being in the costume data files.

Again in a perfect game it might be cool to be able to specifically choose if you want detail X, Y, or Z to be a costume option or a body option. But again I doubt that's how CoT will work.

As far as the mannequin idea goes I would think we'd be able to load both costume files and body slider files onto them, especially if the Devs choose to make that a way that players can trade those types of files with other players.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I remember joining Emerald Fusion's team Fusion Force with one of my toons back in the day. They had their own website complete with a guide that told you how to make the SG uniform. I think that was way better than the SG colors thing CoX had. In the first place not everyone cares about making thier costume look like the team uniform, and those people are going to ignore a SG costume tool just as much as they would ignore anything else. The people who DO want to make their costume look like the SG will put the time in to do it in the costume creaotr (because in my opinion that's what that's for) and will end up with way better results for their efforts.

That's one way to do it. But now that CoT is separating out the "costume" data from the "body slider" data in its save files (remember CoH had all of that combined into one monolithic file) it'll be easier to give new SG members an in-game costume file instead of having to write an out-of-game guide to explain how to make it.

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Maybe we could have it

Maybe we could have it seperate into parts for loading. Or not having a selection on a part means it'll not change one.

Like if you make a costume that's just mask, shirt, gloves, belt, pants, boots and load it on someone would all their other options not covered by the costume file just go default? So no hair, no special eyes, your wings vanish, etc etc.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Maybe we could have it seperate into parts for loading. Or not having a selection on a part means it'll not change one.

Like if you make a costume that's just mask, shirt, gloves, belt, pants, boots and load it on someone would all their other options not covered by the costume file just go default? So no hair, no special eyes, your wings vanish, etc etc.

Maybe there will be a way to "lock" any particular costume option so that it will remain unchanged even if you load in a new costume file. So for example you want to keep your current choice of eye color you could lock that so that even if a newly loaded costume file has a different eye color it won't change your currently locked selection. That's probably the simplest way to handle it - IIRC I think Champions Online had a way to "lock in" things like that.

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I think Champs did, but I

I think Champs did, but I think it went away if you loaded a costume. So if we could get something like that that doesn't that'd work.

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After reading all these posts

After reading all these posts, it was Radiac's post #19 that gave me my epiphany:

Radiac wrote:

I remember joining Emerald Fusion's team Fusion Force with one of my toons back in the day. They had their own website complete with a guide that told you how to make the SG uniform. I think that was way better than the SG colors thing CoX had. In the first place not everyone cares about making thier costume look like the team uniform, and those people are going to ignore a SG costume tool just as much as they would ignore anything else. The people who DO want to make their costume look like the SG will put the time in to do it in the costume creator (because in my opinion that's what that's for) and will end up with way better results for their efforts.

I think we are overthinking it all.
You give players a costume file that includes everything but the body sliders, because those will be another file. But rather than worrying if the costume file will include tattoos, or whether it will replace my robot leg with a peg leg, or what not. That's what the Avatar Creator is for. So you import the costume file and you're now 80% of the way there. It is up to you, the player to decide if you want to use the tattoo and pegleg or not, and you make the adjustments as necessary while you're in the creator before you apply them to yourself.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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That's all fine and dandy for

That's all fine and dandy for making a new character. But what if you just want your current character to wear what the other person wears. Keep your hair, tattoos, eyes and all that and just add the costume on top of. See, it's the difference between having to load a costume to your character and load a costume then re-make your character. One is a heck of a lot more effort. What hair color did you have? How did you put that emblem so it was a tattoo? What were all it's sliders and colors again? Guess I either have to write down a list of stuff before hand or continuously switch back and forth between my costumes so I can slowly copy over -all- the stuff the costume file overwrote.

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Perhaps if the new costume

Perhaps if the new costume files were sectional? Copy just the torso? Copy just the legs or arms? Copy the head, but don't override the face/hair? Perhaps the face/hair is a separate file? It's the part that is least likely to change in a costume-swap, except when it's done deliberately.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I think we are overthinking it all.
You give players a costume file that includes everything but the body sliders, because those will be another file. But rather than worrying if the costume file will include tattoos, or whether it will replace my robot leg with a peg leg, or what not. That's what the Avatar Creator is for. So you import the costume file and you're now 80% of the way there. It is up to you, the player to decide if you want to use the tattoo and pegleg or not, and you make the adjustments as necessary while you're in the creator before you apply them to yourself.

I'm not sure where your "epiphany" is here. I've always assumed that if I were to get a "costume file" from someone else that I would still have to use the costume creator to finish up the "final 20%" to make it fully work for my character. I don't think the "costume file sharing idea" was supposed to be an instant fix unless you want to make a 100% identical clone to someone else. There was always the need to do unique hair, eye color, etc. for your own purposes. The costume and body slider files are just aids for design, not complete solutions.

But like I said before if I could, for example, pre-design my hair style/color and then "lock" that in place I would then be able to load a costume file that would change potentially everything else EXCEPT my hair style/color. That ability to "lock" options in place would make the basic ability to load costume files while designing doubly useful.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That's all fine and dandy for making a new character. But what if you just want your current character to wear what the other person wears. Keep your hair, tattoos, eyes and all that and just add the costume on top of. See, it's the difference between having to load a costume to your character and load a costume then re-make your character. One is a heck of a lot more effort. What hair color did you have? How did you put that emblem so it was a tattoo? What were all it's sliders and colors again? Guess I either have to write down a list of stuff before hand or continuously switch back and forth between my costumes so I can slowly copy over -all- the stuff the costume file overwrote.

I'm not sure having these save files was supposed to make all of this absolutely trivial to do. But the simple improvement of having the "costume" files and "body slider" files separated is a huge step forward over what CoH provided. I still think if the costume creator of CoT provided an adequate "locking" feature so that various details could be frozen in place regardless of when/if costume files are loaded (which would overwrite anything NOT locked) then most of the issues you're talking about here could be mitigated.

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Yeah the ability to lock

Yeah the ability to lock parts (and have them not be overwritten by the loaded costume file, I guess it'd just load in slot to unlocked slot) or as Fireheart said have it be sectional would help solve or alleviate this issue.

And yes having seperate body slider and costume options is a lot better than what CoX had.

I would prefer when having my heroes dress up in costumes I haven't made having it be as quick and simple as possible. Maybe they can have certain options set/lock across all costume options? Like hair, eyes, skin color, etc. So if you change your character's hair you don't need to do it X times (with x being the massive amount of costume slots I and others will inevitably have.)

If such a thing can be done and certain options can be set as unchanging no matter what costume is loaded (unless otherwise specified by the player) then we could get a neat temp power or gadget that allows someone to temporarily copy another's costume to wear. And with most bad guy gear being made available to players you could use it on badguys too. Would be more of just a fun thing rather than a game thing. But maybe if it was an actual power or used for a mission it could make it so if used on an enemy it made them ignore you provided you didn't attack. A disguise... Then after the mission you could get one that either works like the mission one or doesn't have the stealth part. I think that would be fun.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If such a thing can be done and certain options can be set as unchanging no matter what costume is loaded (unless otherwise specified by the player) then we could get a neat temp power or gadget that allows someone to temporarily copy another's costume to wear. And with most bad guy gear being made available to players you could use it on badguys too. Would be more of just a fun thing rather than a game thing. But maybe if it was an actual power or used for a mission it could make it so if used on an enemy it made them ignore you provided you didn't attack. A disguise... Then after the mission you could get one that either works like the mission one or doesn't have the stealth part. I think that would be fun.

This reminds me of what Q on Star Trek TNG usually did when he would end up wearing a Starfleet uniform to piss Picard off:

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Yeah the ability to lock parts (and have them not be overwritten by the loaded costume file, I guess it'd just load in slot to unlocked slot) or as Fireheart said have it be sectional would help solve or alleviate this issue.

And yes having seperate body slider and costume options is a lot better than what CoX had.

I would prefer when having my heroes dress up in costumes I haven't made having it be as quick and simple as possible. Maybe they can have certain options set/lock across all costume options? Like hair, eyes, skin color, etc. So if you change your character's hair you don't need to do it X times (with x being the massive amount of costume slots I and others will inevitably have.)

If such a thing can be done and certain options can be set as unchanging no matter what costume is loaded (unless otherwise specified by the player) then we could get a neat temp power or gadget that allows someone to temporarily copy another's costume to wear. And with most bad guy gear being made available to players you could use it on badguys too. Would be more of just a fun thing rather than a game thing. But maybe if it was an actual power or used for a mission it could make it so if used on an enemy it made them ignore you provided you didn't attack. A disguise... Then after the mission you could get one that either works like the mission one or doesn't have the stealth part. I think that would be fun.

Sure it would be a very nice feature to have but it does run into the problem of defining what is part of the body and what is part of a costume they wear. The biggest difference would probably be if you play a robot since I don't see then being defined with many "wearables" but rather having effectively all being part of their actual body.

Maybe if we get not only a lock option, since that has traditionally been used to lock for randomization, but also a "body" option, that is another tick-box that labels it as part of the body so that when applying costumes (both in CC when making own and temporary ones) those option do not change. That could then be used in temporary changes (a.k.a part of an infiltration mission) and it would be the direct equivalent of just dressing in their clothing, but of course you would also get an option for choosing a more "total" look change via hologram or glamor or such when taking the mission. Thus it could be incorporated into the mission by having specific enemies be able to see the "real" you depending on how much of the actual costume was applied or even specific parts of it, or if you chose hologram glamor or other "total" look.

Grimfox
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This is an interesting debate

This is an interesting debate. I think you could make an argument for three costume file tiers. tier one is the slider. Tier two is the core or "skin" which would be all the skin deep aesthetics. Eye color, skin tone, robot limbs, peg legs, etc. Then you'd have the costume level file which would be everything else, all the pieces that could presumably be taken off.

That said in the future it would be nice to see the option to save a particular item. IE if your SG had a jacket with a certain tailoring you could save the jacket only and pass that out to your members. Short term having the ability to lock sliders and certain costume parts against hitting the random button or loading a costume file would be a good middle ground. This way if you've got your makeup, body sliders, and robot arm and leg just so, you can lock those features and click load on the SG costume and poof done.

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