One thing I always thought was odd about COH was that missions only had one way in or out.
I realize this is going to be difficult but there should be options for how to approach a villain's lair and walking in the front door is not one most heroes would use. There should be entrances through windows, drains, skylights, attics, or just busting through a wall. We're superheroes not cookie salesmen.
And if we do use the front door we should bust in and get a big reaction.
Above all we should have the option to let different team members use different entrances. That way maybe the tank can smash his way in the front, getting everyone's attention while a more stealthy character approaches from a different direction.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
*whistles innocently*
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I do like this idea, though something that was an issue at times in CoW, could be a problem here. Most groups like to stick together and pull a turtle tactic. This usually doesn't actually work very with. If we can enter through different places, there should be the possibility for us to survive, reasonably, whatever we come across. One man stealthing in probably can't take out 20 dudes, but four of them? Probably.
I always liked the missions that had simultaneous objectives, while the raids made it hard to multi-task these things, other missions wouldn't have been so taxing, except they never did anything like that outside the incarnate stuff. Every mission in the game could be completely, basically, by huddling together and plowing through. It got boring sometimes. I think this would be a lot more strategy into grouping.
I choose to infer this whistling to mean Tyche can't tell us what we want to hear, but you've secretly broken into his mind fortress. I look forward to smashing through skylights and nuking bosses. :Nod:
Turtles make easy targets. When players huddle up the villain AI should trigger either every AOE attack the bad guys have or at least every ranged attack making the player tanks and scrappers feel like turnips.
If all else fails the villains can do a PILE ON! Assault or better yet just run away leaving the heroes standing there looking stupid while they escape and the mission fails.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
*Smiles broadly*
Kickstarter Update 3: [url=https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/618310]I Love Instanced Content.[/url]
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Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
That was pretty dang awesome thanks
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Gosh I love this thought!
One thing I always thought was odd about COH was that missions only had one way in or out.
I realize this is going to be difficult but there should be options for how to approach a villain's lair and walking in the front door is not one most heroes would use. There should be entrances through windows, drains, skylights, attics, or just busting through a wall. We're superheroes not cookie salesmen.
And if we do use the front door we should bust in and get a big reaction.
Above all we should have the option to let different team members use different entrances. That way maybe the tank can smash his way in the front, getting everyone's attention while a more stealthy character approaches from a different direction.
Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.
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I love the idea of multi-pronged attacks on Villain Bases. In theory. However, I can see lots of practical problems with letting team members choose which entrance they use on team missions. Timing of "mission events" such as cut-scenes, etc. Not to mention different load times. If there were a way to work all that out, great.
However, for solo play, this could be extra awesome! Even if it were only on some missions. How cool would it be if you arrive at the "Official Mission Entry Point" and when you clicked on it were given a choice of
A) Bust in on them with impressive style (Maybe taking out a door or wall, instant Presence Attack)
B) Stride in confidently with little fanfare (Walk in, people see you but don't react until you take some action/attack/cross a line)
C) Find an unobtrusive entry point (Enter stealthily at an out of the way window, etc.)
This would really lend a lot to the "feel" of the genre. Considering Dr. Tyche's cryptic responses I'm hopeful for something along these lines.
I see fun opportunities with all the options the article presented.
Some maps aren't likely to have as many, though Sewer maps, which I still want (and still intend to make some amphibous not knock off mutant to live in, kidding, ish...), probably can't have as many points of entry. If there is a sewer zone, which I'd love as well, more base entry points, set it up like this:
A: Direct assault from the manhole cove.
B: The stealthy is to find the door in the sewer and sneak in a back entrance,
C: Tanky bust in entrance would be basically finding basically where the map should be, and clobber the ground, which means, hopefully we can also have digging powers... Or bust in through the sewer wall...
Guess any power could be a digging power if you knew how to do it, but attacking the darkness should probably be out of the question most of the time...
[url=http://ovalkwiki.com/The+Seventy+Maxims+of+Maximally+Effective+Mercenaries]Maxim 44.[/Url] If it will blow a hole in the ground, it will double as an entrenching tool.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Why I do believe you are correct. But only because Warcabbit let something out a week or so ago about the topic. Was that my outloud typo?
Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.
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*Heavy breathing intensifies*
Sic Semper Tyrannis
I'd still love to see Phasing Tech actually get used for ... [url=http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/power.php?id=Pool.Invisibility.Phase_Shift]Phase Shift[/url]ing. Thus, when you Phase Shift or otherwise go intangible, you actually enter a different Phase of the exact same map ... one where things like doors and other movables are "missing" and can therefore be passed through with ease.
So you'd be able to pull off things like "walking through a locked door" by Phase Shifting and walking through the space the door is "no longer blocking" in the alternate Phase. Such a method could even be used as an alternative means to enter instance maps or as a shortcut through instance maps, in which you can Phase through obstacles because they only block progress on one version of the map and not the other.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I've been excited for this since that update went live! The multi-entrance stuff is gonna be great. Combined with the non-linear layout (every CoH lair was basically a long tunnel, really), it should prevent cheesing out the situation.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
It's threads like this, complete with cryptic Dev replies, that convince me that this game will blow CoT's numbers off the chart.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
I have to agree, there. The biggest thing I'm finding is that near the end of CoH's life, the devs didn't really feel connected to it all. Like they were developing for a game that they were losing interest in. The Battalion Issue would have livened it up, I imagine, as they were excited for that, but I've seen people lose interest after some entropy gets to them.
This though? It feels like the devs are a lot more connected. Every dev that comes in and weighs in on a subject strengthens that feeling. Obviously they won't be able to do that once CoT hits the wider world, as we're going to be looking at an absolutely mind blowing player base, but for the moment they know exactly what we love and want in the game because they are the fans too. Really, the only reason they wouldn't give us what they want is because of tech limitations. It's great!
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
That cinches it. I shall await the day my MM walks through the front door, eyeballs the situation, and calls for backup, which then promptly arrives through the skylight and nearby wall.
Rise! From the ashes and decay!
Rise! From the prison of your grave!
Rise! Upon the standard at the door!
Rise! Into the eye of the Storm!
-KMFDM, "Risen"
Hmm.. maybe if an indoor Map had pet spawn Volumes attached to the Skylights, Windows, Manholes, Wall Cracks (to bust through), etc... and whichever was the closest Volume would be used by the pets to make their debut. ;)
That's actually a really good idea!
Ideally you'd want to have a "default" animation for how the Pets arrive which is not dependent upon the environment. Ninja's drop in (silently) from "nowhere" to land beside you. Mercenaries parachute in. Gang bangers roll up on motorcycles. That sort of thing.
But, if you are summoning Pets within proximity of a Summoning Override Volume, then the Pets will have their summoning animation overridden to be something more thematic/fitting for the environment. The aforementioned skylights, windows, manholes, wall cracks to burst through, and so on. You can then set up an option in the UI to allow these summoning override animations or to prevent them. These animation overrides would then only get played for specific Powers used in specific volume spaces and would make possible somewhat varied "entrance" animations when summoning.
You'd want to set up the whole thing to be as reusable as possible, so you'd essentially have coding "modules" that can be dropped into specific locations on maps, either within enclosures/instances or out on the streets. So powersets like Robots and Mercenaries would "crash in through" features like skylights and walls, smashing them in the process ... whereas Ninjas would "ninja teleport" in through such features without breaking them. Heck, Ninjas could even do the "peel off the paper to find the ninja underneath" trick to reveal themselves from camouflage. Mercenaries could do something similar in casting off grassy/leafy [url=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JgTbGUJfeuc/T2gOIYjABAI/AAAAAAAACig/eSBnUJEXgGY/s1600/ghillie_suit1.JPG]ghillie suits[/url] out in open terrain with plenty of ground clutter.
And if you design such a feature to be as modular as possible, it would be something that can be retrofitted not only onto existing powersets, but also onto existing maps ... meaning such a feature doesn't have to be completed at Launch.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
And maybe this time the Level 26 Commando for Mercenaries can actually look a little closer to RAMBO! ;D
I want to burst in through a wall like the kool aid man!!!
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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But then the Thirst boss will flee and we'll have to run through the entire map to catch him.
Spurn all ye kindle.
orrr...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LAzQE83.png[/img]
;)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/PhQxSgc.png[/img]
No wait, that's his Grand Daughter!?
And she only goes for the:
[img]http://www.orderfood.lk/images/company_image/149/Vegi%20Burger.JPG[/img]
;D
Well, my hero was Ms. Manners, so, yes, she had to use the front door. And knock politely too.
And then keep knocking on the heads of those ill-mannered ruffians.
Steel Head used to teleport outside of a building both as a defense tactic and to reload.
In COH if you do that you're leaving the mission and that's bad.
Why is it bad?
why couldn't he teleport right outside and then come right back?
Maybe just include some of the area outside the building as part of the mission map.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
That sounds very much like a use your imagination moment.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
But the cornerstone of what I'm saying is:
I don't want the game to penalize us for going outside.
At least within a reasonable time limit.
Paladin's main power is Regeneration so jumping out a window to get some time to heal is something he might do also.
and the reason I suggested letting part of the outside be included on the mission map is that that would allow villains to follow us so it's fair.
It would be really bad if you could could leave the map without penalty and the villains couldn't do anything.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
The idea of backing off to recover is fine, but it is only necessary to leave the instance if it is impossible to break aggro, or in situations such as right by the front door. In other words, why jump out a window if you can just run back down the hall?
That isn't to say the instance not resetting on exit is a bad idea though. Probably you would want some kind of time limit before a forced reset.
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I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Then why not have the baddies follow you? Why have them break agro at all? You run off, why wouldn't they follow you? If they regen, why wouldn't they jump out the window too?
Why wouldn't exiting a mission not penalize you? While you leave the map, they get new recruits in there! Or get the hell out because they know you know where they are.
Then why not have the baddies follow you?
I don't have a problem with letting them follow me.
That's why I suggested including part of the outside on the mission map.
Why have them break agro at all?
The ones I've already agroed would still be after me, but presumably wouldn't be able to follow as quickly as I can run, because Steel Head Teleports and Paladin jumps out the window. I'm just hoping to put some room between me and the bad guys by going outside.
You run off, why wouldn't they follow you?
already answered that
If they regen, why wouldn't they jump out the window too?
I'm not assuming they can regenerate. Obviously this strategy wouldn't work against foes that could follow me by jumping out the window, though in the case of the teleporter, they might not know where he went.
Why wouldn't exiting a mission not penalize you?
"Why would it?' is a better question.
While you leave the map, they get new recruits in there! Or get the hell out because they know you know where they are.
These are both reasonable ways for the bad guys to respond. I'd have no problem with either, provided they have time.
The type of penalty I'm concerned about is an immediate complete reset, or an experience penalty on completion.
Just as much as that, I'm asking for the outside area to be on the mission map so that villains CAN chase me when I use this tactic because if I use it and they can't chase me it's kind of unrealistic.
You see:
if the villains can't chase me outside.
and if the mission resets
and if I get XP for every villain I beat. (not just on completing the mission)
I could just keep going back outside
and keep beating the same guys by the door over and over until I level up and I can handle the rest of the mission
It's a bit silly
In COH the missions didn't reset but the villains would hang around by the door for a little while then start walking back to their stations. They gave up when I got to the door because they couldn't follow me
I don't remember if COH gave XP penalties for reentry, nor do I know if the devs were planning to do that in this game but some games do, and I can see why, but if the villains can chase me outside they wouldn't need to give the penalty.
However, if I don't just go outside, but actually leave the mission map, then I'd say yes the map should reset and there should be penalties. Retreating to catch your breath is one thing, giving up and running away is another.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Ideally there would be no instance maps and moving from interior to exterior would be seamless. Bad guys that have the good guy on the run would try to chase him off, hunt him down, or take the chance to get away. The reality of implementation is the overhead on system resources becomes quite high to make every building in every part of the city work this way. Perhaps with a proprietary engine making effective use of voxel tech it may be possible, but that isn't where we are at.
It would also be problematic to create interior instance maps that also have exterior instances of the surrounding city but actually can't be a part of the city. For one the instance requires an entrance and exit. If the mission begins by entering the building, the instance can't also be the exterior surrounds without that too having an exit of its own. So no matter what happens, there is a true exit out of the instance.
Now at some point it may be possible to have an exterior map with one or more structures with multiple entry and exit points, but its a non trivial amount of work and still results in the map over all having an exit.
Exiting a mission map itself shouldn't result in automatic reset, it was after all a nice feature in CoH. It certainly came in handy a few times through the years I played anyway.
A true reset would occur probably similarly, after an amount of time the instance is "idle", exiting and changing difficulty, exiting and forcing a hard reset by changing active missions and switching back.
The only thing we have discussed is a completion penalty for continued completion of the same instance continuously, particularly for user generated content. As for playing through a mission, resetting prior to completion, resetting and going at it again? We are actually fine with it - farming itself is just as valid play time to those who like to do it as playing through content to completion reading all dialogue and everything else is to those who enjoy that. The repeated play-through penalty is to encourage moving onto the next mission and also make the completion rewards a greater incentive than the play through rewards.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Well here's an idea, and it might be just as problematic I don't know
but if you could make it work, you'd be the only game I know of where it works
(which probably means it's not possible)
How about if leaving an incomplete mission causes several minions of the type inside to spawn by the entrance, so it feels like they're chasing you.
I'd get a good laugh out of that.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Wait... really? What about KS Update No. 3, "I Love Instanced Content"? I thought MWM understood the advantages to instanced missions and it wasn't just a technical limitation issue.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Sounds interesting but could be abused as a griefing tool.
I remember at least one lvl 50 mission that took you to Steel Canyon which had an ambush when you exited the map. The door was a block or so from the trainer where a lot of lvl 10-20's would congregate.
If the team leaving the mission didn't hang around to clean up you ended up with piles of dead lowbies all over the place.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Yeah, you'd have to make that only work when the missions were located in level appropriate zones.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Well "no instance maps" is a bit of an absolute sounding statement which is my fault as I would imagine in such a world there would still be instances but not as prevalent as what we will employ for CoT. Sorry about that.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Ah, ok, cool. Thanks.
Spurn all ye kindle.