Super Prisons

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TheMightyPaladin
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Super Prisons

Prisons in a superhero universe have to deal with a lot of problems unknown to real world prisons and they’re justly famous as revolving doors. There are several different approaches to solving the problem of super inmates.

Power Deactivators
Some prisons have a way to Deactivate super powers, either constantly to prevent break out attempts or with a weapon used to subdue violent prisoners. Some might even have a way to remove powers permanently. Though if the authorities have a way to permanently remove super powers, this would make many superheroes view the government with extreme fear and distrust. Another big problem with this, is that it usually only works on mutants. Of course Tech powered prisoners can have their toys taken away, but government authorities are usually helpless against Magic or Alien criminals.

Specialized Cells
Some prisons will try to build custom build cells to resist each individual inmate’s powers. Obviously this is a very expensive option but not as expensive as the next 2. The biggest problem with this is that sometime the measures needed to counter a particular villain’s Power will fall under the class of cruel and unusual punishment.

Leavenworth On Steroids
Some prisons will be fortresses with enough firepower to quickly subdue all but the most powerful super villains.

Devil’s Island On Steroids
Some prisons will be in extremely remote and dangerous locations like on the ocean floor, in the arctic or on the moon. To make escapes much less likely.

Australia On Steroids
Some might say that Australia is already on steroids, but in a superhero world some villains might get sent to places of no return, like whole other planets or universes! There are even small pocket universes where the prisoners can be kept in total isolation, and the only reason they don't starve, is that these places are outside of time making them eternal cells.
Naturally, only the most dangerous monsters or villains would be sent to such a place, but strangely it's usually the heroes who make the decision to send someone there, and they do it without even consulting any legal authority!
No one wants to give the government the Power to banish people to Hell, but we can always trust the guys in tights who won't tell us their names.

So what are we going to have?
Or will we have more than one possibility?
If we play villains can a defeat land us in prison, leading to an escape mission?
Or will in just cost us money to bribe bail or bond?

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... We're gonna need more steroids.

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Party in the Phantom Zone.

Party in the Phantom Zone. Supervillains invited! BYOB!

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Badass of the Week: Australia

Badass of the Week: Australia (NSFW due to language used) (you have been warned, ya pansies!)

Powers Suppression simply seems to be the way to go for "prisons" containing superpowers. Although, I must admit that Mangeto's "plastic prison" was definitely inspiring for being a Specialized Cell type.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Powers Suppression simply seems to be the way to go for "prisons" containing superpowers.

The only quibble I have about "power suppression" being the answer for super prisons is that CoT is going to be the kind of superhero setting where people's powers can be based on literally anything. It's a tall order to have an "off switch" for every kind of power imaginable.

If CoT was going to be a clone of say the X-Men universe then things would be different. Since all the X-Men are mutant-based they could all supposedly be turned off with the "cure" weapons so there was a common single method to deal with any superpowered person. It's just not going to be that easy in CoT.

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Hey, I don't mind if the Devs

Hey, I don't mind if the Devs want to take a page out of Warehouse 13 and have Dark Vaults housing prisoners relying on what amounts to Purple Goo Fields.

Of course, the other alternative would be the equivalent of a Bronze Sector in which criminals are "bronzed" by an artifact which then effectively puts them into a state of suspended animation. That way, the "prison" is more of a warehouse of captured/defeated/convicted Foes than it is an institution of character reformation and atonement for crimes committed.


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I say we put them in

I say we put them in Cryostasis and try to rehabilitate them by using a program that teaches them how to knit sweaters.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Hey, I don't mind if the Devs want to take a page out of Warehouse 13 and have Dark Vaults housing prisoners relying on what amounts to Purple Goo Fields.
Of course, the other alternative would be the equivalent of a Bronze Sector in which criminals are "bronzed" by an artifact which then effectively puts them into a state of suspended animation. That way, the "prison" is more of a warehouse of captured/defeated/convicted Foes than it is an institution of character reformation and atonement for crimes committed.

Yeah either of these might work. I particularly like the second idea - if it was good enough to put Han Solo in carbonite then it should be good enough for CoT.

oOStaticOo wrote:

I say we put them in Cryostasis and try to rehabilitate them by using a program that teaches them how to knit sweaters.

That was actually a pretty funny part of that movie. I'd be more concerned that they learn how to use the "three seashells" or there's going to be a big mess to clean up. ;)

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Could also have a Moonbase be

Could also have a Moonbase be a prison. Hard to escape if there is no air outside (then again some supers don't need to breath).

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RottenLuck wrote:
RottenLuck wrote:

Could also have a Moonbase be a prison. Hard to escape if there is no air outside (then again some supers don't need to breath).

Men in Black 3 showed us how that would go down...

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Pfft... Moonbase. Air is for

Pfft... Moonbase. Air is for weaklings.

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Our prison is actually on the

Our prison is actually on the map, as it's own island and then some.

Technical Director

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Well, that's nice to know but

Well, that's nice to know but how does it work, and are player villains ever going to be sent there when they get beaten?

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I would imagine that the only

I would imagine that the only time you'll see anybody sent into a prison or jail system would be during a mission and only instanced in that mission. I'm also pretty sure that it would be a team member or yourself if you happen to get defeated during the mission. I'm guessing the Prison on the island will be more of just a place to go to either see, get a badge, street sweep, or possibly enter a mission through a door located somewhere on the island.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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Not for the ability to just

Not for the ability to just have a "You're in prison, you just got depowered" ability readily available to any authority. I'd say instead they have to rely on specifically built prison cells, not cheap and more encouraged to keep the prisoners in the cell as not to be a waste of money. Which of course, it will turn out to be! How hard is it for a concept anyways to be "Yeah...powers can't be nullfiied. That's part of the powerset :p"

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Not for the ability to just

Not for the ability to just have a "You're in prison, you just got depowered" ability readily available to any authority. I'd say instead they have to rely on specifically built prison cells, not cheap and more encouraged to keep the prisoners in the cell as not to be a waste of money. Which of course, it will turn out to be! How hard is it for a concept anyways to be "Yeah...powers can't be nullfiied. That's part of the powerset :p"

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Not for the ability to just

Not for the ability to just have a "You're in prison, you just got depowered" ability readily available to any authority. I'd say instead they have to rely on specifically built prison cells, not cheap and more encouraged to keep the prisoners in the cell as not to be a waste of money. Which of course, it will turn out to be! How hard is it for a concept anyways to be "Yeah...powers can't be nullfiied. That's part of the powerset :p"

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Not for the ability to just

Not for the ability to just have a "You're in prison, you just got depowered" ability readily available to any authority. I'd say instead they have to rely on specifically built prison cells, not cheap and more encouraged to keep the prisoners in the cell as not to be a waste of money. Which of course, it will turn out to be! How hard is it for a concept anyways to be "Yeah...powers can't be nullfiied. That's part of the powerset :p"

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But suppose being defeated,

But suppose being defeated, for villains, cost them money, for bail, bond, & bribes
and if they didn't have the money, they went to jail and had to escape.
Then the prison would serve a purpose other than window dressing,
and we'd get some feeling that the legal system actually existed for players as well as NPCs.

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PC villains won't like the

PC villains won't like the idea of them having to pay when defeated when heroes wouldn't.

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PC villains will get money by

PC villains will get money by robbing people, we wont
also I'm certainly not suggesting that EVERY defeat should have the same consequences.

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I have sharks with freakin'

I have sharks with freakin' lasers planned for you, themightypaladin.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

But suppose being defeated, for villains, cost them money, for bail, bond, & bribes
and if they didn't have the money, they went to jail and had to escape.
Then the prison would serve a purpose other than window dressing,
and we'd get some feeling that the legal system actually existed for players as well as NPCs.

Mighty Paladin, you sure do seem to have a deep, overriding need to prevent paying customers from playing the game. So very many of your ideas, like this one, are designed to create limits on how paying customers play the game.

Part of the problem with imprisoning villains for playing the game according to the game's own rules is it makes absolutely no commercial sense.

If you genuinely wanted to make virtual incarceration a result of committing certain crimes then the first thing you need to do is state clearly and up front which crimes will land a player character in prison.

Secondly, it will be important to use the prison as a means to expand gameplay rather than restrict it. There is some potential to this idea, however, if being in prison becomes the only way to earn certain badges or gain certain achievements, then heroes and in-betweens will feel denied access to that realm of game play.

Lose-lose situation way either way for a person in your position, TMP. Either you lose out on the prison content, or player villains stop playing the game and take their money with them so the game goes broke.

It seems to me you really didn't think this idea out very far.

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The only time my villain

The only time my villain should go to jail is if it's part of a mission.

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So there is no legal system

So there is no legal system at all for PC villains?
Maybe Steel Head is right.

Look I'm not suggesting anything like a real world prison.
Obviously for a game like this prison has to be a revolving door of sorts
Thats why loss of cash is the first result and only if they don't have any money do they end up in jail

Also if they end up in jail I'm not suggesting a bare room with a rapey cell mate either
I'm suggesting that there be a way to get out that they should be able to find with an adventure
and afterward be able to use every time

perhaps at some point in the future there could be an event where the prison closes off the escape, forcing everyone to find a new one

In addition there could be contacts, a black market, and even other adventures in the prison.
Being a villain shouldn't be the same as being a hero and most comic book villains do some time.

Also you could have an insane asylum that some players could be sent to instead
Basically the same thing but with a totally different look and different possible contacts.
I think a lot of the magical villains could go there.

Plus one possible adventure you could get, in Prison or the asylum, is reform or cure:
a chance to change your alignment maybe and come out with a clean slate.

Finally, as I said before I don't think every defeat should land you in jail, just when you get beaten by police or superheroes.

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I lean to the Specialized

I lean to the Specialized Cells. Thought Power Nullifying in some form is being used via RP on the Roleplay threads. They are more to limit a character whose powers would be overpowered. Cher the Radioactive character for example would be cooking everyone with radiation if she didn't have some form of containment/nullifying. So far we been Rping them as limited in abilities either battery power runs out if over used, or can be burnt out as in the case of Cher in the Kidnapping RP. So far I think the idea is the Nullifiers need physical contact in some way.

If Nullifying is included in the Prisons I would think they be in use only in the prisoner's cell. Nullifying cuffs and other restraints can be used when arrests are made (explains why Villain X don't kill the cops once the Hero is away.) or when being moved from the Cell.

So if Nullifying Cells are a thing how do they work? In the case of the RP versions they are leaching the energy needed to generate said power in some way. Nullifying cells would be easier to build then Custom Cells for each Villain. Logical as well given the designers of the cell wouldn't know how to build it for each captive before hand.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

So there is no legal system at all for PC villains?
Maybe Steel Head is right.
Look I'm not suggesting anything like a real world prison.
Obviously for a game like this prison has to be a revolving door of sorts
Thats why loss of cash is the first result and only if they don't have any money do they end up in jail
Also if they end up in jail I'm not suggesting a bare room with a rapey cell mate either
I'm suggesting that there be a way to get out that they should be able to find with an adventure
and afterward be able to use every time
perhaps at some point in the future there could be an event where the prison closes off the escape, forcing everyone to find a new one
In addition there could be contacts, a black market, and even other adventures in the prison.
Being a villain shouldn't be the same as being a hero and most comic book villains do some time.
Also you could have an insane asylum that some players could be sent to instead
Basically the same thing but with a totally different look and different possible contacts.
I think a lot of the magical villains could go there.
Plus one possible adventure you could get, in Prison or the asylum, is reform or cure:
a chance to change your alignment maybe and come out with a clean slate.
Finally, as I said before I don't think every defeat should land you in jail, just when you get beaten by police or superheroes.

Flip the scenario. Should a hero (such as themightypaladin) get zeroed out and deleted on some percentage of times he gets defeated by villain pcs or NPCs. Because some of these guys have a two in the chest and one in the head policy...

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

The only time my villain should go to jail is if it's part of a mission.

It would seem to me that the obvious choice would be to have the content team come up with a Breakout styled scenario for a Task Force, in which the PCs deliberately go and get themselves arrested and incarcerated so as to be able to bust out from the inside ... and bring someone out with them. In other words, a "rescue" operation by means of a prison break. You could even set it up as an "escort" type of thing, in which every member of the Task Force gets an NPC to protect, and how successful you are (as an individual, and as a team) is determined by how many of these vulnerable NPCs survive to escape with the PCs.

Extra bonus points for a Don't Hospital design to the whole thing, where needing to Hospital Rez ends your participation in the Task Force (ie. you wind up back in jail and aren't getting out this time) and gets you auto-kicked from the Team. That way, this particular Task Force is more of an "ironman challenge" to complete, and suicidal tactics are discouraged if you don't have someone on the Team with a Resurrection Power. Rewards you get for completion are scaled to how many PCs and NPCs survive the escape attempt and manage to complete the Task Force.


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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

So there is no legal system at all for PC villains?
Maybe Steel Head is right.
Look I'm not suggesting anything like a real world prison.
Obviously for a game like this prison has to be a revolving door of sorts
Thats why loss of cash is the first result and only if they don't have any money do they end up in jail
Also if they end up in jail I'm not suggesting a bare room with a rapey cell mate either
I'm suggesting that there be a way to get out that they should be able to find with an adventure
and afterward be able to use every time
perhaps at some point in the future there could be an event where the prison closes off the escape, forcing everyone to find a new one
In addition there could be contacts, a black market, and even other adventures in the prison.
Being a villain shouldn't be the same as being a hero and most comic book villains do some time.
Also you could have an insane asylum that some players could be sent to instead
Basically the same thing but with a totally different look and different possible contacts.
I think a lot of the magical villains could go there.
Plus one possible adventure you could get, in Prison or the asylum, is reform or cure:
a chance to change your alignment maybe and come out with a clean slate.
Finally, as I said before I don't think every defeat should land you in jail, just when you get beaten by police or superheroes.

I'd say there's less a rotary door policy and more of a "Just how things go so players can play"

Always hated in CoH that people thought that's what CoH had. Nothing showed it to be that way, except oh look, prison break is always going so it must be! :p

Storyline never suggested it and the storyline even suggested as you leveled you cleaned up the area and why you moved on. :p

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Well, that's nice to know but how does it work, and are player villains ever going to be sent there when they get beaten?

Brighellac wrote:

Flip the scenario. Should a hero (such as themightypaladin) get zeroed out and deleted on some percentage of times he gets defeated by villain pcs or NPCs. Because some of these guys have a two in the chest and one in the head policy...

If CoT ever allows for the possibility of defeated PC villains to be sent to prison it should impose an equal chance for defeated PC heroes to be abducted and tortured at secret villain facilities that basically serve as "prisons" for heroes. Heck a huge chunk of the last Batman movie centered around just such a "hero prison" for Batman so the concept is perfectly sound for a superhero game.

All's fair in love and war...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

So there is no legal system at all for PC villains?
Maybe Steel Head is right.
Look I'm not suggesting anything like a real world prison.
Obviously for a game like this prison has to be a revolving door of sorts
Thats why loss of cash is the first result and only if they don't have any money do they end up in jail
Also if they end up in jail I'm not suggesting a bare room with a rapey cell mate either
I'm suggesting that there be a way to get out that they should be able to find with an adventure
and afterward be able to use every time
perhaps at some point in the future there could be an event where the prison closes off the escape, forcing everyone to find a new one
In addition there could be contacts, a black market, and even other adventures in the prison.
Being a villain shouldn't be the same as being a hero and most comic book villains do some time.
Also you could have an insane asylum that some players could be sent to instead
Basically the same thing but with a totally different look and different possible contacts.
I think a lot of the magical villains could go there.
Plus one possible adventure you could get, in Prison or the asylum, is reform or cure:
a chance to change your alignment maybe and come out with a clean slate.
Finally, as I said before I don't think every defeat should land you in jail, just when you get beaten by police or superheroes.

I'll agree to this if defeat for heroes is perma-death. A villain loses, they go to jail. A hero loses, they make a new character.

Seems fair.

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Well I do remember tal .....

Well I do remember tal .....*door opens men in black comes in with glasses on and red glowing pens* *Short time later*

I'm sorry the memory I was trying to remember completely slipped my mind. There was also a NDA sticker on my computer for some reason.

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Actually, here's a two-fer on

Actually, here's a two-fer on the Breakout idea.

If you choose to become a villain in the tutorial, you get sent to the prison and busted out by an NPC you are obliged to follow.

Later, at higher levels, there's a Task Force to play the other side of that prison break scenario, where you deliberately get arrested so as to bust out with a gang of NPC prisoners.

The first time, the PC is along for the ride. The second time, they're calling the shots. That way, you'd get to see essentially the same story from different sides of the action and the whole thing becomes something of a "pay it forward" sort of deal. YOU got broken out, now it's your turn to return the favor for someone else ... and the cycle continues. Even though it's PC+NPC both times, you essentially get to "flip the script" so as to give Players a chance to experience both sides of the Breakout scenario.

Two-fer.


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I like it.

I like it.

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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if you really think about it,

if you really think about it, loss of cash is not that different from xp debt that heroes get
maybe villains shouldn't get xp debt
and going back to a prison that you already know how to break out of is no different from being sent to the hospital

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

if you really think about it, loss of cash is not that different from xp debt that heroes get
maybe villains shouldn't get xp debt
and going back to a prison that you already know how to break out of is no different from being sent to the hospital

I'm not getting this fascination with treating heroes and villains differently in terms of meta-game things like character death or currency acquisition.

When are you going to accept that this game is not going to treat "heroes" and "villains" like binary black-n-white factions? The alignment system of CoT is going to be a three-way spectrum where most people are not going to be 100% good or 100% evil (BTW, the subjectively vague concepts of "good" and "evil" don't even directly apply to this alignment system).

If the game is going to treat things like where you go after character death differently based on alignment how exactly would you suggest that work based on the combined degrees of Law, Violence and/or Honor?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Well Lothic thanks for making

Well Lothic thanks for making that clear.
I guess I'm just not interested in this game anymore good bye.

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Nah Just kidding!

Nah Just kidding!

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Golden Girl's Heroes and

Golden Girl's Heroes and Villains is that way TheMightyPaladin. *Points to sign* http://www.heroes-and-villains.com/phpb/home.php

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The urge to comment is great.

The urge to comment is great. Themightypaladin is so ... Themightypaladin.

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Yeah, not keen on the idea of

Yeah, not keen on the idea of different penalties for death.

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It does make sense though

It does make sense though that what happens when you're beaten would vary depending on who you are and who you're fighting.
Also even if we all went to the same hospital, hospitals are likely to react to criminals differently from superheroes.
A level playing field doesn't have to mean that everyone is always treated the same by everyone
it just has to mean that the advantages and disadvantages need to balance out.
After all there should be differences between playing a hero and playing a villain
otherwise what's the alignment system even for.

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Roleplaying fun...

Roleplaying fun...

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So is that you're answer to

So is that you're answer to everything?
if anything doesn't make sense just pretend it does?
that's fine for some stuff but it only goes so far and it can't cover stuff where the game clearly can do better
and you know that's true because there's been a lot of talk on these threads about what breaks immersion
Anyone who's going to freak out about a black doorway, should be spastic over heroes and villains being treated the same way when they're defeated.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

After all there should be differences between playing a hero and playing a villain
otherwise what's the alignment system even for.

It seems to me the various Kickstarter updates and dev posts have made it very clear there will be great differences in how the game world responds to a player character depending on that character's alignment. Enemy groups will become allies, allied groups will become enemies, certain vendors will refuse to deal with the character, while other vendors will suddenly welcome the character with open arms.

There is no doubt in my mind alignment will have a noticeable impact on gameplay. Adding a prison for villains would need to have a similar defeat action for heroes. After all, every hero loses a fight now and again. So if losing a fight lands a villain in a prison (even if that prison is designed as an expansion on gameplay rather than a restriction), then something similar must happen to a defeated hero.

Just what should that be, Oh Mighty Paladin?

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Fair question Greycount.

Fair question Greycount.
I've already pointed out that the prison isn't that different from the hospital.
it's really just a matter of where you wake up.
I've also suggested that villains lose cash while heroes lose xp (get xp debt whatever)
beyond that I'd be interested to hear someone elses ideas because I don't have any right now
nor do I feel like I have to be the one to offer it,
we can work together on this.
By the way what balances it doesn't have to be something that happens in the same situation.
heroes could have a harder time with something else completely unrelated.
all that matters is that it balances out

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Fair question Greycount.
I've already pointed out that the prison isn't that different from the hospital.
it's really just a matter of where you wake up.
I've also suggested that villains lose cash while heroes lose xp (get xp debt whatever)
beyond that I'd be interested to hear someone elses ideas because I don't have any right now
nor do I feel like I have to be the one to offer it,
we can work together on this.
By the way what balances it doesn't have to be something that happens in the same situation.
heroes could have a harder time with something else completely unrelated.
all that matters is that it balances out

All right so the prisons as villain hospitals could work if things where changed massively.

First off villains and heroes have the same penalty. Ingenuity isn't meant to represent money, you have been told this countless times, stop pretending that's not the case.

Second my villain should be able to leave just as quickly as a hero from a hospital. For this I suggest two exits for flavour. One there's a lawyer standing in the prison that you talk to that's really corrupt and he pulls some strings to let you out, this option is for the big money type villains for RP purposes. The other option is there's this guy who a wererat who calls himself the "ratman" who has been to the prison so many times he knows how to get out really easy and he shows you.

Third there should be just as many contacts in the hospitals for heroes as there are for villains in the prison. Maybe there's a guy who wants you to investigate someone who's killing people in their beds at the hospital or someone who's selling organs on the black market, doesn't matter put him in so their can be equal opportunities for both sides.

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If it spends it's cash and it

If it spends it's cash and it's just asinine to pretend otherwise.

but everything else you said sounds cool

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

If it spends it's cash and it's just asinine to pretend otherwise.
but everything else you said sounds cool

Inf in CoX wasn't meant to represent cash either, it was meant to represent your reputation. The same thing should be said for ingenuity so we can still RP as poor or rich people no matter what our Ing pool is. It's like saying those little boxes you see when you click on someone should be considered canon.

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I stand by what I said

I stand by what I said
especially since there is no other in game currency
and even more because when you rob a bank it you steal a pile of "not Cash" that the game graphics are going to display as bundles of green and grey paper.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I stand by what I said
especially since there is no other in game currency
and even more because when you rob a bank it you steal a pile of "not Cash" that the game graphics are going to display as bundles of green and grey paper.

Actually that graphic shows actual cash, as in the US currency we have. The infamy you gain from that shows the reputation you gained from stealing that actual cash.

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Hippocratic Oath:

Hippocratic Oath:

"I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius the surgeon, likewise Hygeia and Panacea, and call all the gods and goddesses to witness, that I will observe and keep this underwritten oath, to the utmost of my power and judgment.

I will reverence my master who taught me the art. Equally with my parents, will I allow him things necessary for his support, and will consider his sons as brothers. I will teach them my art without reward or agreement; and I will impart all my acquirement, instructions, and whatever I know, to my master's children, as to my own; and likewise to all my pupils, who shall bind and tie themselves by a professional oath, but to none else.

With regard to healing the sick, I will devise and order for them the best diet, according to my judgment and means; and I will take care that they suffer no hurt or damage.

Nor shall any man's entreaty prevail upon me to administer poison to anyone; neither will I counsel any man to do so. Moreover, I will give no sort of medicine to any pregnant woman, with a view to destroy the child.

Further, I will comport myself and use my knowledge in a godly manner.

I will not cut for the stone, but will commit that affair entirely to the surgeons.

Whatsoever house I may enter, my visit shall be for the convenience and advantage of the patient; and I will willingly refrain from doing any injury or wrong from falsehood, and (in an especial manner) from acts of an amorous nature, whatever may be the rank of those who it may be my duty to cure, whether mistress or servant, bond or free.

Whatever, in the course of my practice, I may see or hear (even when not invited), whatever I may happen to obtain knowledge of, if it be not proper to repeat it, I will keep sacred and secret within my own breast.

If I faithfully observe this oath, may I thrive and prosper in my fortune and profession, and live in the estimation of posterity; or on breach thereof, may the reverse be my fate!"

I point this out because all Doctors take this oath and will treat all patients equally, regardless of what affiliations they are with. So if a villain is defeated and goes to a hospital you can bet they will get the same treatment as a hero does. So therefore the theory that Villains shouldn't go to a Hospital doesn't work. Hospitals should be considered as a Neutral Zone. So if Villains are supposed to go to Jail, where do the Heroes go?

All persons from CoH were implanted with a device that would automatically teleport them to the nearest hospital for recovery. Perhaps it will be the same for CoT as well. CoH had the Ziggurat located in Brickstown. CoT will have it's prison as well. I'm guessing it will be much the same as CoH's was. Something to visit to earn a badge, possible door entries for missions, and a place to street sweep for enemies that also provided a badge.

As others have mentioned, perhaps the Devs can design a special Task Force for both sides to participate in. Villains could break out of it. Heroes could go in and stop the Villains from taking it over.

Personally I'd rather stick with everybody waking up in a Neutral Zone Hospital myself.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

Hippocratic Oath:
"I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius the surgeon, likewise Hygeia and Panacea, and call all the gods and goddesses to witness, that I will observe and keep this underwritten oath, to the utmost of my power and judgment.
I will reverence my master who taught me the art. Equally with my parents, will I allow him things necessary for his support, and will consider his sons as brothers. I will teach them my art without reward or agreement; and I will impart all my acquirement, instructions, and whatever I know, to my master's children, as to my own; and likewise to all my pupils, who shall bind and tie themselves by a professional oath, but to none else.
With regard to healing the sick, I will devise and order for them the best diet, according to my judgment and means; and I will take care that they suffer no hurt or damage.
Nor shall any man's entreaty prevail upon me to administer poison to anyone; neither will I counsel any man to do so. Moreover, I will give no sort of medicine to any pregnant woman, with a view to destroy the child.
Further, I will comport myself and use my knowledge in a godly manner.
I will not cut for the stone, but will commit that affair entirely to the surgeons.
Whatsoever house I may enter, my visit shall be for the convenience and advantage of the patient; and I will willingly refrain from doing any injury or wrong from falsehood, and (in an especial manner) from acts of an amorous nature, whatever may be the rank of those who it may be my duty to cure, whether mistress or servant, bond or free.
Whatever, in the course of my practice, I may see or hear (even when not invited), whatever I may happen to obtain knowledge of, if it be not proper to repeat it, I will keep sacred and secret within my own breast.
If I faithfully observe this oath, may I thrive and prosper in my fortune and profession, and live in the estimation of posterity; or on breach thereof, may the reverse be my fate!"
I point this out because all Doctors take this oath and will treat all patients equally, regardless of what affiliations they are with. So if a villain is defeated and goes to a hospital you can bet they will get the same treatment as a hero does. So therefore the theory that Villains shouldn't go to a Hospital doesn't work. Hospitals should be considered as a Neutral Zone. So if Villains are supposed to go to Jail, where do the Heroes go?
All persons from CoH were implanted with a device that would automatically teleport them to the nearest hospital for recovery. Perhaps it will be the same for CoT as well. CoH had the Ziggurat located in Brickstown. CoT will have it's prison as well. I'm guessing it will be much the same as CoH's was. Something to visit to earn a badge, possible door entries for missions, and a place to street sweep for enemies that also provided a badge.
As others have mentioned, perhaps the Devs can design a special Task Force for both sides to participate in. Villains could break out of it. Heroes could go in and stop the Villains from taking it over.
Personally I'd rather stick with everybody waking up in a Neutral Zone Hospital myself.

I don't think anyone is saying they won't. However there is also an issue, the PCs are meant to be stronger villains then the common folk, even the NPCs with super powers (hence why one can walk into a base filled with police officers and beat them all to death), so it should be assumed that while surgeons will still help the villains, it would be stupid of them to not do in a prison hospital, where their are security protocols. Just because surgeons would help the villains doesn't mean the villains will be able to just get up and walk out after wards after they committed a lot of crimes.

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Another thing just occurred

Another thing just occurred to me.
As a hero I'd think it was cool and funny if sometimes I woke up in a cell in the villain's lair and/or a death trap then I had to escape.
also I remember that there were missions in COH where I did get put into a cell.

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

Another thing just occurred to me.
As a hero I'd think it was cool and funny if sometimes I woke up in a cell in the villain's lair and/or a death trap then I had to escape.
also I remember that there were missions in COH where I did get put into a cell.

Would be interesting if this was combined with this

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts/642943

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Two hospitals in each zone,

Two hospitals in each zone, one for Heroes/Vigilantes and one for Villains/Scoundrels, sounds like the best solution to me

and, again, may I point out that they're called MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES. this is not mere hand-waving, it's a rock solid fact. if you can't find yourself willing to play an imagined role, different than what you may actually see in game, then you will probably not be able to enjoy it. anyone who feels the need to keep jumping up and down over this is not facing the reality of actually playing a game

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HornetsNest wrote:
HornetsNest wrote:

Two hospitals in each zone

Bah. You're thinking small time with dozens of zones (and war walls all around them?).

No, what you REALLY want are hospitals serving each of the 3 axes of alignment ... presumably on a low/mid/high basis ... for Honor, Law and Peace. That gives you NINE Hospitals throughout the ENTIRE CITY to use, and the ones that you're "restricted" to are the ones that your character's alignment coincides with. That means that YOUR character would only have access to 3 out of the 9 Hospitals in the game. So when it's time for you to Hospital, you're going to have to Pick Where You Go ... and ... if there's a team wipe, then not everyone is necessarily going to be going to the same Hospitals.

This means that being able to travel and navigate back to where you were after a faceplant inspired trip to the Hospital could become a logistical issue ... increasing the value of Resurrection Powers (and "Wakies") over Hospital trips thanks to the Path Of Least Resistance.


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+1 Red. I like this idea.

+1 Red. I like this idea. Makes Travel Powers necessary and Resurrection capabilities more valuable.

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Whatever they do I still

Whatever they do I still would like for there to be an option to build a hospital/res point inside of your SGs base.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
oOStaticOo wrote:

+1 Red. I like this idea. Makes Travel Powers necessary and Resurrection capabilities more valuable.

^This

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

HornetsNest wrote:
Two hospitals in each zone
Bah. You're thinking small time with dozens of zones (and war walls all around them?).
No, what you REALLY want are hospitals serving each of the 3 axes of alignment ... presumably on a low/mid/high basis ... for Honor, Law and Peace. That gives you NINE Hospitals throughout the ENTIRE CITY to use, and the ones that you're "restricted" to are the ones that your character's alignment coincides with.

Assuming one hospital for each combination of the three axes with three possibilities each, that's 27 (33) hospitals.

We're gonna need a bigger map.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Some of those hospitals will

Some of those hospitals will have to be 'underground'.

Be Well!
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I kind of like that idea Red.

I kind of like that idea Red.

an Anti-Hero like the Punisher wouldn't be welcomed at a normal regional Hospital. Where a well respected crime boss would pay off any witnesses, or simply be seen as a High ranking businessman and his criminal empire wouldn't be known to the Normal Hospital.

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And some of these "hospitals"

And some of these "hospitals" could be a back room an illegal doctor (e.g. Shinra Kishitani from Durarara) works out of.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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One hospital can be at a cave

One hospital can be at a cave like area where you are met by a customizable butler!

Or would that be a personal/sg base option?

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Wake up in the back of a van.

Wake up in the back of a van. NPC "Crap he's alive...um... We saved you. You are good to go."

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

HornetsNest wrote:
Two hospitals in each zone
Bah. You're thinking small time with dozens of zones (and war walls all around them?).
No, what you REALLY want are hospitals serving each of the 3 axes of alignment ... presumably on a low/mid/high basis ... for Honor, Law and Peace. That gives you NINE Hospitals throughout the ENTIRE CITY to use, and the ones that you're "restricted" to are the ones that your character's alignment coincides with. That means that YOUR character would only have access to 3 out of the 9 Hospitals in the game. So when it's time for you to Hospital, you're going to have to Pick Where You Go ... and ... if there's a team wipe, then not everyone is necessarily going to be going to the same Hospitals.
This means that being able to travel and navigate back to where you were after a faceplant inspired trip to the Hospital could become a logistical issue ... increasing the value of Resurrection Powers (and "Wakies") over Hospital trips thanks to the Path Of Least Resistance.

I like this idea. Just annoying enough to punish a team wipe but not harsh enough to screw things up. Brava!

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Assuming one hospital for each combination of the three axes with three possibilities each, that's 27 (33) hospitals.
We're gonna need a bigger map.

Low / Mid / High ... Honor
Low / Mid / High ... Law
Low / Mid / High ... Peace
= 9 Hospitals

You'd get 27 Hospitals if each of them contained all three axes of alignment, rather than just caring about a single axis of alignment. The system I'm proposing has single axis Hospitals ... 3 for Honor, 3 for Law, 3 for Peace ... and they're each effectively "agnostic" on the topic of what kinds of patients they'll treat on the OTHER alignments that they aren't oriented around.

So if your character is High Law, then you can go to the High Law Hospital ... regardless of what your alignment is on Honor or Peace.

Set things up the way you're talking about Lin, and you'll not only have 27 Hospitals in town, but your character can only be served by the ONE Hospital that matches your alignment on all three axes out of those 27. NOT RECOMMENDED.

This is why I said that out of the 9 Hospitals my system calls for, you'd have the option of Resurrecting at any 3 of them and it's up to you (as a Player) to pick the "best" one to wake up in.

So if, say ... Redlynne ... got faceplanted and needed to go to a Hospital, I could pick either the High Honor or the Medium Law or the Low Peace Hospital to go to, because those would be the matching alignments for her.

9 Hospitals yields 3 choices for each and every character.


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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

Some of those hospitals will have to be 'underground'.

Not only is such an observation a "well DUH!" moment, but also something that I (if I were among the City of Titans Developers) would absolutely INSIST UPON.

One of the things that I really enjoyed about the Rogue Isles was that there were Abandoned Labs in some places to make up for the lack of (plausible) University facilities in the Isles. There was also Mole Point Alpha/Mole Point Charlie out in the Shadow Shard as a "shortcut" to get halfway through The Cascades, which was another "hidden" underground feature (for transport, rather than Hospital services). And then who could forget all of The Underground in Praetoria, where you'd get a goodly amount of your Resistance storylines networking through? There was also The Crucible in Cap au Diable, which was underground, that was the place for Villains to go spend their Villain Merits.

So yes, absolutely ... I would insist that at least one of the Hospitals for City of Titans would need to be placed in an underground location (possibly even two or three of them!). Now whether that means a cave or a "sewer" or some kind of Hidden (Oranbega?) Facility would depend more on how ... inspired ... the map building team gets with such a notion.

RottenLuck wrote:

I kind of like that idea Red.
an Anti-Hero like the Punisher wouldn't be welcomed at a normal regional Hospital. Where a well respected crime boss would pay off any witnesses, or simply be seen as a High ranking businessman and his criminal empire wouldn't be known to the Normal Hospital.

Exactly. You're following where I'm leading with this.

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

And some of these "hospitals" could be a back room an illegal doctor (e.g. Shinra Kishitani from Durarara) works out of.

No reason why it couldn't be. Point being, you aren't limited to billion dollar buildings staffed with hundreds of people (or just a few visible NPCs, as the case may be).

RottenLuck wrote:

Wake up in the back of a van. NPC "Crap he's alive...um... We saved you. You are good to go."

Maybe not a (parked) van, but perhaps a "mobile" facility, such as an ambulance or a helicoper, for example. It'd be fun to be "woken up" by the sound of an EMT (incoherently) yelling "CLEAR!" and a defibrillator getting used followed by a Fade In From Black. There'd be an option for your character to jump out of the vehicle while it's moving, or simply wait for it to stop, either of which could have interesting Travel consequences. Set up the "mobile" facilities to run a route pattern and you're good to go.

HornetsNest wrote:

I like this idea. Just annoying enough to punish a team wipe but not harsh enough to screw things up. Brava!

We make every pretense of competency around here. ^_~


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Being woken up on way to the

Being woken up on way to the Prison Hospital could be a logical way for a villain to escape. You simply woke up in the Ambulance on the way and escaped.

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Actually, I wouldn't even

Actually, I wouldn't even object to setting up the Low Peace (ie. high violence) Hospital as being a "prison" of some sort that you have to "bust out of" using DPS after waking up. That way you literally Use Violence after waking up in the Low Peace Hospital just to get outside the facility. In other words, what happens next after waking up is thematically congruent with your choice of destination.

Of course, that would just mean that at the Low Honor Hospital you wake up to learn that your health insurance "plan" has been retroactively revoked by your "provider" ... and hilarity ensues ...


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Okay, so let me get this

Okay, so let me get this straight. Alignment is "pick one of low, medium, or high, and pick one of honor, law, or peace", basically a modified D&D alignment map, and not three fully orthogonal axes where each of honor, law, and peace are rated low, medium, or high? I was pretty convinced, especially with the references to "axes", that it was the latter configuration. E.g. my main would be high Honor, medium Law, and low Peace.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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So If I'm High Law and medium

So If I'm High Law and medium Peace and still not clear about what the game means by honor
Am I good guy or a bad guy?

That is I'm pretty sure I'm medium peace
because I use nunchucks
(and mean use the heck out of them,
on peoples heads and stuff)
but I'd totally never kill anyone on purpose.

I'm also pretty sure I'm high law because this game makes it legal to put on a costume and kick some @#$

Honor?
somebody remind me

maybe I should've asked this back when we were doing "the alignment system scares me"

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Law Honor and Peace system as

Law Honor and Peace system as far as I know is this.

Law, do you follow the law or not. Heroes that don't could be Big Daddy and Hit Girl. Not only do they kill they also take money from the drug dealers they killed. Superman is High Law he doesn't just fight crime he does his best to follow a personal rules of law.

Honor. Do you tell the truth or not. "I swear if you need me I will come running" and if they do call for help do you go to them? Basically comes down to trust can someone really trust you. You stopped the villain from running off with a very powerful military weapon. Giving it back to the army it will be used in war, and maybe even against Supers. Or do you take it to your Fortress of Solitude and tell the Military it was destroyed in the battle, would be a Honor alignment choice.

Peace/Violence. Fighting is a must sometimes, but as the foe falls to one knee and cries out "No more I surrender" do you stop? Or did that drug dealer deserve to pay the ultimate price for selling Meth to those middle schoolers? Do you torture him for more information?

Again that is what I take from what I read so far. A lot of what things could be end up as involves writing, composition, as well as tech abilities.

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Lin Chiao Feng
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Which is why I'm confused if

Which is why I'm confused if "Honor, Law, and Peace" is pick one.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

RottenLuck
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It's not. The talk is what

It's not. The talk is what hospital would you go to as a choice. The Unlawful Hero might not want to go to the Lawful Hospital. Logically once he arrives the police would be called to bring in the wanted man. So he be more willing to go to a Hospital that willing to look the other way and not report the man wanted for murder.

The Alignment system is not really part of this talk just the idea the Hospitals you choose to go to when you are defeated are what we are talking about. Choose what hospital not what part of the alignment system.

Of course this is just us talking not the Devs working on the game itself. Then again they do read and take notes on what we are talking about. A prime example is Anthem who was just a basic drawing of a sidekick, but we latched onto her and fleshed out a background. Now she's the Leader of the Paragons.

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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP

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Oh wow ... I never would have

Oh wow ... I never would have expected this to go over your head Lin.

Every PC has three alignment axes ... Honor, Law and Peace.

When you faceplant and have to Go to Hospital, you get a choice of which "type" of Hospital you want to go to ... the Honor/Dishonor group, the Law/Criminal group, or the the Peace/Violence group. Do you pick Door number 1, Door number 2 or Door number 3?

Each of these three groups has three Hospitals serving the low/mid/high ranges on that axis. Where your character is on the low/mid/high scale of that specific axis determines which of the 3 Hospitals in that grouping you go to.

Examples:
A Hero faceplants and chooses the Law Hospital. Because the Hero has a Law: High alignment, they go to the Law (High) Hospital.
A Villain faceplants and chooses the Law Hospital. Because the Villain has a Law: Low alignment, they go to the Law (Low) Hospital.

Needless to say, the Law (High) Hospital is not located in the same neighborhood as the Law (Low) Hospital. Go on, guess why ... so when the Hero and the Villain go to the Hospital they wind up in completely different parts of town, even though they both chose what amounts to "Go to Law Hospital." The locations of the 9 Hospitals for the city would (duh) be what amounts to common knowledge (think vidiotmaps) and I wouldn't be surprised if the convenience of being able to wake up in specific Hospitals became a factor in Players choosing what their alignment preferences are (because, Path of Least Resistance).

So when you faceplant, you get to pick which "flavor" of Hospital you want to go to ... Honor, Law or Peace type. The game then cross-references your character's alignment and then sends you to the appropriate low/mid/high Hospital in the grouping that you picked.

3 choices.
9 Hospitals.
Endless hours of faceplanting for fun and ... Debt?

Don't make me break out the colored LEGOs to explain this to you, Lin.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
oOStaticOo
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LEGOS!!!!!

LEGOS!!!!!

I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!

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As long as we can avoid the

As long as we can avoid the therapy puppets. ^_^'

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

As long as we can avoid the therapy puppets. ^_^'

Puppets?

Formerly known as Bleddyn

Do you want to be a hero?

My characters

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But, can you make to the 6th

But, can you make to the 6th night?

I'll go to any hospital...

...as long as I can avoid the purple man

Lay your hands on me
While I'm bleeding dry
Break on through blue skies
And take it high

Nyktos
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HornetsNest wrote:
HornetsNest wrote:

But, can you make to the 6th night?
I'll go to any hospital...
...as long as I can avoid the purple man

Must resist temptation to post scary pictures of Springtrap.....

In regards to the topic at hand though I like the hospital idea.

Formerly known as Bleddyn

Do you want to be a hero?

My characters

Lin Chiao Feng
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

When you faceplant and have to Go to Hospital, you get a choice of which "type" of Hospital you want to go to ... the Honor/Dishonor group, the Law/Criminal group, or the the Peace/Violence group.

That was the missing piece. Normally you don't get to choose your hospital; your insurance company the server does.

Redlynne wrote:

Don't make me break out the colored LEGOs to explain this to you, Lin.

Nah, you don't need to break out the LEGO. You didn't need to break out the gratuitous condescension either, but that horse left the barn.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...