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I was wondering if its possible to make a character like Spiderman in City of Titans? In Champions Online I was sort of able to but he shoots arrows instead of web and can't wall crawl. I would like Wall crawling and web shooter be possible in COT
I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero
Some form of wall crawling will be in, they mentioned it as part of their parkour system.
Considering the decoupling between the effects of a power/ability and its aesthetics we will probably get web-based animations at some point, though I doubt it will be in at launch.
There are actually two problematic issues with your suggestion. One of course is whether the game software technology used by CoT will allow for the powers you want. As blacke4dawn mentioned CoT is trying to make wall crawling possible and we'll see if they manage it or not. But the other less obvious concern is if the game creates powers that are so obviously identical to an existing major comic book character it could open MWM up for some direct IP infringement liability. In other words even if CoT could perfectly implement exact copies of Spider-man's wall crawling and web shooting powers doing so could easily get them sued by Marvel.
Just in case you aren't aware CoH actually got legally entangled with Marvel back when Marvel saw CoH as a threat to its own computer gaming efforts. Marvel claimed it was too easy for people to make clones of its various characters in the CoH costume creator and ultimately forced CoH to put limits on what you could make and save in its creator in order to satisfy Marvel. With that history in mind its always possible that CoT might get too close to upsetting folks like DC or Marvel again.
Now I'm not saying this means that CoT will never get its own version of wall crawling. I'm just suggesting that whatever CoT comes up with will likely never be EXACTLY like Spider-man if for no other reason that it would not want to be sued by Marvel. I could see where eventually there may be some kind of travel power that would let you "sort of" wall crawl and some sort of power customization option that will let you make some kind of blast power that "sort of" looks like a web shooter. But I wouldn't count on you ever being able to play a 100% exact clone of Spider-man in CoT - in this case Spider-man's powers are simply so unique that it would be too hard for CoT to pretend they weren't trying to rip Marvel off.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I'm certain there will be an equivalent of CoH's Web Grenade power. IIRC, the plan is to be able to incorporate pool powers AND powers outside of your primary and secondary framework at reduced effectiveness. So if this is true, the ability would be there but you'd need to be a little creative.
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I probably will have to be creative if I make a Spider-man like character. But Lothic was concerned that If Web shooting was in COT that Marvel might complain, Well how did a Spider-Man like Character appear in a DC show? In The show Young Justice, their was a character with powers VERY close to Spiderman's His name was Black Spider, their is a YouTube video with him fighting Green Arrow and Artemis https://youtu.be/Hn5d-YUyw0E
I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero
Oh I have nothing against "very close approximations" to existing characters. In fact there were probably thousands of characters in CoH that were "pretty close" to existing mainstream DC/Marvel characters and I have no doubt there will be plenty of those in CoT as well. Many "clone-like" characters were actually very clever and cool overall. In fact at one point I created a character that looked (at least visually) as close to Supergirl as was possible in CoH but the twist was that she used tech gadgets to "simulate" powers. I established in her background that she was 100% human and had no actual "super human" powers but that she could fly with rocket boots and shoot people with her electro-blast gloves. You just have to be clever about how you "borrow" stuff from other sources.
The problem comes if a game like CoT creates a feature/power that is arguably too identical in "look and feel" to the features/powers of a very specific single iconic character from a very well known IP. Sure CoT might be able to get away with a generic "wall clinging" power but if they make the mistake of making the specific animations/stances related to that power look way too identical to Spider-Man I could see where Marvel might be able to use that as a "foot-in-the-door" to pursue a more general suit against MWM. Same goes with a "web slinging" power - CoT might be able to approximate something like it but if they copy it too closely Marvel could use it as an excuse to sue.
To be clear I might not normally be so "alarmist" about this sort of thing other than the fact that Marvel did actually sue CoH at one point already. The precedent has been established that big companies like DC and Marvel are protective of their property rights in computer games and all I'm pointing out is that a little company like MWM shouldn't go out of its way to create something that would give a third party practically no alternative but to sue.
The good news from all this is that I imagine CoT will provide so many options for customization that it'll probably be pretty easy for anyone to create a relatively close approximation to a Spider-man like character without having to resort to a 100% carbon-copy clone of him.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Not only that, but MWM should run Most Original Character Contest every few months. The driving force behind that is to start getting players to expand on their creativity when making new toons, and in a way making it less likely that majority of players will keep trying to make carbon copies of the most popular comic book characters. Marvel, DC, etc... might not care about the lesser known, non profitable/marketable characters as much, so wont Sue, well... ulterior motives aside. At least thats my thinking. :/
You and Lothic have very good points.
Now about what you said about Original Characters I totally agree, cause the majority of character I'm planning for COT are Original characters Or I will try to make them as original as possible. I have only one or two popular Superheroes I ever care to make a character like in COT and that's Spiderman and The Flash.
I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero
As others mentioned, we WILL have wall crawling, though it will indeed be less spiderman and more tech/parkour. Spidey is quite unique, but the Acrobatic travel power in DCUO...we can approximate THAT. That's what we're aiming to give you.
Web shooting powers is probably more problematic. It's not a regularly occurring theme in comic books, I don't think there's very many at all besides Spider-man. Could indeed be trouble but hey, we'll see, we might figure out a real good substitute someday. Coming up with new power animations will be a thing throughout the lifespan of CoT. There's no telling what we might come up with over the years.
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[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
Yeah I liked the acrobatic travel power in DCUO It did wall crawling ok. DCUO and Champions have things Similar to web shooting. Champions has Vine/Energy Cable travel but it has to be purchased in the ZEN store. I personally wouldn't be too disappointed if COT does not have Spiderman like powers, I have lots of other ideas for characters. I hope you guys keep up the good work, I look forward to playing COT. I'm anticipating the character customization coming late this year. Make the superhero MMO that many will enjoy.
I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero
I could see wall crawling being done, with little problem. there are a buncha instances out there of various characters who "wall crawl" and they are not all limited to marvel.
the web shooters....these become problematic, although I believe these too could be done although they would need to be called something else (Swing Line for example) and may need to adjust how they are presented (stay away from animations with specific hand/finger gestures other than the hand pointing outward).
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
I call it [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/21613#comment-21613]The Swing Set[/url]. ;D
Wall crawling is cool and all, but seriously every character should be able to climb (unless they're really heavy)
and faster than normal climbing should be a courtesy,
similar to the way everyone in COH could jump over an 8 ft fence in a single bound.
In COH we could make our way up walls with a series of diagonal jumps
I always figured that was just the best they could do, or they really didn't care as long as it worked.
I fully expect an actual climbing animation in this game.
Now let's talk about the powers that spiderman has that really make him cool.
[b]Crawling across ceilings:[/b] Now that's something not everyone can do!
[b]Web Swinging:[/b] In COH super jump let us change direction, while we were in the air.
I had a lot of characters that I imagined were really swinging with bad animation (because it really didn't make sense otherwise).
Champions Online lets you swing around
Though Spider-man is the character we associate this ability with most strongly, he's by no means the only superhero whose been seen swinging around the city with some kind of rope. He just does it more consistently and with more style. So a swinging animation shouldn't get us in trouble.
[b]Web Shooting:[/b] Tying people up in some way was the most common type of attack in silver age comics. While the animations can't show Spider-man's signature I love you in sign language, hand position, there are a wide range of animations that could be attached to a tying someone up attack, I strongly recommend lasso, Bolo, and net throwing animations as well as the web grenade we saw in COH. And why not just point and shoot to tie someone up?
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
I seem to recall DCUO Acrobatics movement set were pretty much a Spider-Expy, they included everything including binding up targets with wires: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvLWQiAn4k
"TRUST ME."
I watched the video. Yep, barb wires or some sort of coils were around the enemies.
Side Note:
I played DCUO before, briefly, and the attacks seem iffy and too fast paced. I can't say its bad per-se, but I rather not see MWM implement the same Combo Counting. As I might have eluded to in other posts elsewhere, I was not a big fan of Claws Melee in CoH/V. I rather have one power animation that shakes the Earth with its impact than one thats 1000 papercuts, even its its lightning fast like a speedster blurring in and out around the target. :/ Thats me though. :P
This thread reminded me of this:
[youtube]o12YySfp25A[/youtube]
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I think a grappling hook power would solve the spider swing issue.
[youtube]LmgbI5figlU[/youtube]
I believe there is an option to switch between a straight shot and a swing. I'm not sure though. But the ability to grab enemies and fling them would be a lot like a spidey attack. Just change the mesh of the grapple line to a whitish color and you're golden.
Also. If I recall there was a Beast Run mode in CoX, I think it was in beta a year or two before CoX shutdown. But if you take the beast run and put in on the wall crawl I believe you could make it look like a spidey crawl
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Swinging is just pendulum mechanics.
Select anchor point.
Reel in/Reel out towards and away from the anchor point.
Gravity/falling causes the swinging to happen through an arc.
Keep shifting over to new anchor points (Spiderman style) to continuously move towards your objective.
Likewise, if you just want to go up a building (or whatever) you pick your anchor point and reel yourself in/up to it, grappling line style, without swooping around laterally like a pendulum.
Same deal with "base jumping" and bungee cords. Pick the anchor point at your feet and reel out the line when you jump off until you get close to "where you want to get off." Kind of like this ...
[youtube]mSvuHSqqGSw[/youtube]
You want to have a grapple line/swinging system that is robust enough to cover all of these sorts of "pendulum" moves.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I never liked the idea of having a spiderman-esque web-swinging travel power, and I still don't. It's really lame, and only even POSSIBLE as a way of traveling if you're in a city landscape with tall buildings spaces close too each other. The idea of Spider-man web-swinging his way arounf New York is one of the worst abuses of suspension of Disbelief ever, to me. It would just not work any better than running and wallcrawling, and it would have the added drawback of getting your face planted into a wall a lot of the time.
As far as game mechanics go, wallcrawling I'm okay with, but web/grappling hook swinging seems bad, to me,as a vertical travel power. For it to work right, you'd have to hit a specific target every time while trying to control which direction you're swinging in, you'd have to be able to reel in the slack in the rope/web, etc etc., and I certainly think it shouldn't even be possible in places where there's nothing to attach the web or hook to in the first place, and there ought to be many, many of those places in the open world.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Well, no one's going to force you to use it.
How about a response to what I said above about normal people being able to climb faster in the game than in real life.
By the way, I would also add that besides ceilings, there are a lot of other smooth or slippery surfaces that normal people shouldn't be able to climb but a power should allow you to.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
You must really love Batman and company then, since their whole MO depends upon a ridiculous amount of roof-hopping. But these are essential superhero tropes, easily (enough) hand-waved with the sci-fi stick by saying Spider-Man has superhuman bone and ligaments and Batman and Robin etc have super advanced grapples with unbreakable cords. In terms of superhero tropes, these ones are easy.
"TRUST ME."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwuYDT2GshA
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
All I'm saying is, it looks silly to the casual observer to see a guy shooting a grappling hook and having it anchor itself firmly in mid-air, thus allowing the guy the travel vertically via a series of invisible mid-air anchor points. CoH avoided that, I'm guessing for that very reason, and I personally would prefer that this game follow suit. It's just a lot of suspension of a HUGELY unbelievable thing when applied to a game were people expect their vertical travel power to do it's job and get them around pretty much everywhere all the time. Even in areas where you HAVE big skyscrapers, they're not always going to be placed close enough together to actually make that practical in the game without a lot of mid-air shennanigans there too. I just shake my head in disapproval of the whole thing, and though it may be a classic comicbook trope, it's one that only works in the comics and movies, where the artist can draw or not draw what they want, the director can shoot it from a good-looking perspective, etc. In a game where you want your travel powers to get you to where you're going, I think it's impractical to make it work as it should and totally fails the smell test if you just have it doing impossible, goofy looking things like anchoring a hook in mid-air and letting you swing from it.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ugebzq3juE
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
That much I can agree with, but how simple would it be to have a grapple-line travel power that works ONLY when there is an actual building, object or ceiling to fire the grapple at or over?
This is a serious question: how feasible is this?
"TRUST ME."
Who wants a travel power that doesn't work when you need it?
Be Well!
Fireheart
To be fair, not every travel power is enitrely "equal". Some have more utilization than others. Wall crawling for example doesn't really do much for wide open areas (should the ever exist). It is the result of very thematic travel powers that are often depicted in comic books, oft requested over many years of on-line hero games, and we are capable of providing.
So what happens when a travel power can't be used? Well, for one, travel powers are optional, so they don't affect how you build your character for combat, though they can have an effect on combat depending (hover sniping and such). Secondly, it may be possible to have more than one travel power. Thirdly, it may be possible that some players have very specific concepts in mind to which certain travel powers help fulfill and they go in with the understanding that certain travel powers may not be "universally applicable" due to the specific nature of the travel power's theme. Finally, there always exists the possibility of obtaining temp travel powers including ones that are technology, magic, and natural themed "vehicles".
More specifically speaking, having a grapnel line and / or swing travel power can still be viable even in areas with low buildings if one considers "comic book physics" of momentum (not the game mechanic!). Snag a smaller building like a garage height at the lip of the roof, swing up toward it, release with a jump and sail over the building, snag the light pole from top of the arc, swing down and up again and release. Snag a building on its vertical side and pull around the corner, grab a one story house's chimney and pull a swing in the opposite direction. Personally, I'd probably have fun messing around for multiple hours with such a travel power (which I actually will be doing). Then there is seeing what happens when I combine a couple of travel powers...
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
How about a power that works like Link's Hookshot? It works a lot like Spider-man's web zip (as seen in the Spider-man Video game). But it doesn't swing the way Spider-man does, and definitely requires a target to pull yourself to.
It can also be used as an attack to damage targets and to pull light targets (both creatures and objects) to yourself, and I imagine heavier objects could be pulled if you brace yourself before shooting.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
That would be zip-line and is a possibility. But it wouldn't double as an attack power, that would be found in the moblity combat tertiary.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That's a pretty big assumption to make....that the only way a rope line will be implemented is by attaching it to nothing.
I think it had a lot more to do with the mesh designs of the environment than a conscious choice of aesthetics/versatility. The mesh design in CoH was .....clunky.
Again...big assumption that people expect a travel power to do everything. I don't expect unlimited vertical movement with super speed or perfect maneuverability with fly nor do I expect ropes to attach to nothing....
This is an extremely limited view of the concept....especially when many of the 'swinging heroes' have ways to extend the swings range (those webs under spidermans arms are air foils...like a wing suit and batman glides with his cape).
Mid air anchors are not the only way to give this power the versatility you seem to think it needs.....one only has to look at the new Just Cause 3 game to see how adding a bit of glide destroys your preconceptions.
why does every ability have to be usable at all times? I would have no problem with making a "swinging" character and not being able to use it if he was in an area that had nothing to swing from. it makes sense and I would be ok with that "limitation".
not all heroes are equal.
[img]http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/whiteperegrine/84183/69278/69278_original.gif[/img]
Agreed. This is the game mechanical equivalent of "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
This sort of thing can be excused in more primitive game engines (particularly of the 8-bit variety), but really doesn't have a decent rationale to persist in Unreal 4.
Pretty much the only provision you'd need to do is to force the anchor point be attached to the surface of a "solid" object ... whether that be static terrain geometry or a moving vehicle of some kind.
Superleap and Fly weren't all that useful inside of close quarters maps such as caves and narrow tunnels most of the time. Same deal with Superspeed and Teleport (albeit in different ways). The real question is, if you "need" your travel power, then WHY do you need it? The real answer ought to be something to do with "access" as opposed to "convenience" as far as I'm concerned.
I'd go so far as to argue that Swimming ought to basically use Flight mechanics, but do so in a specialized way, such that it functions as an "underwater flight" sort of thing. How useful is Swimming when NOT underwater? Not very. Conversely, how useful is Flight when underwater? Again, not very.
Game mechanically, under the hood, Swimming and Flight would rely on a lot of the same programming (with tweaks to settings), but be applicable in exclusive environments (air vs water).
I'm thinking that a combination of "ninja leaping" and grapnel swinging could be VERY popular. Heck, just being able to use a grappling hook [i]to climb trees[/i] might be an interesting challenge the environment could provide. It would also offer an unusual "pursuit" option to give NPCs for chasing a Hover Sniper.
The real beauty however is that a Grappling Hook power need not be used solely in a vertical way. It could, potentially, be used in a purely horizontal way as a sort of tow rope with a moving vehicle. Combine with a skateboard/hoverboard styled low(er) friction movement option and you've got a way to get yourself towed around town ... including out into the boonies if there's any traffic heading that way.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
And then there's ... this ...
[youtube]StmGZLsyxN8[/youtube]
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
That gave me a good laugh, thanks Red. My first thought was, someone didn't make proper use of physics...oh who cares that's funny!
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
[youtube]tO4cEm3EZQc[/youtube]
Try this one.....just to show what CAN be done.....of course this is probably a bit more of reactive style movement you find in twitch gaming than what CoT will want but it gives a good idea what can be done.
Oh no dispute on the "someone didn't make proper use of physics" part ... the gravity is obviously set way too low (among other things). But, that doesn't negate the fact that the video demonstrates a use of tethers that can be used in "horizontal" ways without needing to resort exclusively to the availability of skyscrapers. Even 2 story tall buildings would qualify as being "legit" anchor points for being able to get around.
Of course, everyone's going to focus on the Humor Value™ of the second half of the video, but that kind of behavioral outcome is in some ways something that you'd actually WANT to include, even if it is a little goofy. Partly because there actually would be a little bit of UI control mastery involved in order to do it, but also because it would just be plain FUN ... kind of like how trying to "golf" Hellions across Atlas Park into the lake was a FUN thing to do. It was goofy and it was silly, but it was [b]supported[/b] by the game and engine it ran on.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
Honestly, give us a version of acrobatics from DCUO with an option for a swinging animation or jet assist flight and we're golden. Or perhaps two different versions with one or the other.
I would love to have something similar to 3DMG Gear from Attack on Titan or other such grappling hooks myself. That coupled with proper parkour could be really cool to see.....
Formerly known as Bleddyn
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCqnt88Umk]Do you want to be a hero?[/url]
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I think a zip line would be an attractive part of the set as well. Like in Assassin's Creed Syndicate (*skip to 4:30, thats when ziplines start*)
[youtube]T9kZQIoub9E[/youtube]
I think this would be a more Batman style of movement but I could definitely see Spiderman traveling like this.
I'm not sure why everyone is saying that you would need a skyscraper or an "invisible ceiling" to do a grappling/web swing. Like IslandofTrevor said, just look at any JC video and you can see all the potential of horizontal grapples with the use of a parachute or glide. If you watch the videos they are in big open ares MOST of time. Only using buildings with funny antics. Just make the power come with 3 buttons, 1 button performs the grapple, and the other two are toggles that negate each other when selected.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Well Spider-Powers sounds good idea though but it's kinda risky for MWM if they allow themselves to give away all the powers that Peter has. Wall-Crawling and a grappling hook or a energy swinging is more enough and web grenade. Though web based power like "shooting a silk thread to entangle foes or give them 100% damages" kinda sounds how spidey does when face criminals. Wall-Crawling is okay since i know that it's been used by all characters, not just arachnid or insect based figures but like animal theme like maybe a bat? or some animals in real life that are capable to climb like monkeys.. If there's a thing a like if MWM did is to give people the travel power like Attack On Titan like how those soldiers are capable to swing. That sounds awesome to have that kind of power to make vigilante heroes or maybe a spider theme which is original and contain the lore of COT. So far, even HaV are saying it's too "risky" to let players to have spider powers. In my opinion, wall-crawling is pretty "neat" for a travel powers since somehow people find that "awesome" to do. But i think MWM makes a rule about making clones that are based around superhero genre category. I don't need to worry since i'm always gonna make original or inspiration or homage characters. And i agree with what MWM are telling us, but no one knows yet if they gonna add little more arachnid based abilities. But yeah, for my opinion. Web Shooting could be risky, and no one likes to fight with Marvel or DC about something that is just normal, web grenade and grappling hook, meh okay..
The problem with a Spiderman-like web travel power is it doesn't really work except in a city downtown, and even there it is more of a comic fraud than something useful -- how many times is he drawn swinging on something attached above the Empire State Building? It's easy to draw him angling away on a wire than to actually swing out there. Champions just grapples a spot "up there", independent of any building. You can even use it in the desert!
Quake 1 with the grappling hook mod is the closest to true web slinging -- you had to wait for it to attach and then swing. You could swing along alternate walls of a canyon, without whomping into either side, but it took practice.
That (which was computationally viable 20 years ago) combined with a sort of semifast run and small leap, for no high building areas, sounds like a good power.
Of course, I want Combat Jumping for melee too, get you to the 3rd story with boost? Can't remember but 2nd story no problem.
__________________
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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.
Swinglines can be attached anywhere. When you fire one up and there is no nearby building the game sounds add an annoyed "QUACK*. You see, the sky is full of SuperDucks. Just don't annoy them too much. Or suffer a downy fate.
[color=#ff0000]Composition Team[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
As long as they aren't some sort of [url=http://elgoonishshive.wikia.com/wiki/Demonic_Duck]demonic ducks[/url]...
Sorry, I got distracted there...
^_^
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
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Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Plus, you dont want catch any a-Flack for doing that.
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ohhh, Which afleck?!
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c1cQTMOOgZc/TYkpcpC3lLI/AAAAAAAABkw/jIMnMwBhUpc/s1600/Aflac+Affleck.png[/img] ;)