Becuase speculating is fun and I'm bored and need a new topic to pass the time. This is not to try to get info out of the devs so if you're a dev...no need for comments unless you feel so inclined. Here is my speculation, not skepticism.
Chargen release in the first half of December. No chat, no open zone to run around in. Chargen has a decent selection but seems to be lacking.
Februrary - Chargen release, Issue 0.1; chat enabled, a few items added to chargen in most of the categories
April - chargen release, Issue 0.2. Open zone enabled, more items populate chargen
July - chargen release, Issue 0.3. More items populate chargen.
August - Closed beta release, Issue 0.4 along with more chargen assets. Closed beta is either only for devs and/or certain backers. NDA and no recording would be my guess.
October - Semi-open alpha release, Issue 0.5 along with more chargen assets. More people allowed to play through a level or two with basic combat, NPC dialogue, etc.
January 2020 - Biggest marketing push and anouncement of release somewhere in the April - August range.
Again, all speculation. Not really based on how other games have released, just what [i]seems[/i] logical to me. I don't think the game will release next year. Here are my reasons:
1. Seems like they still have a lot of missions left to complete (more than half), meaning have 100% ready for launch. These take a lot of time since they have less than half in 3 years but maybe once the big push for the chargen is in the past they can focus more on other places.
2. We haven't really seen more than a small handful of animations. I can't help but think these take a long time to actual get to the point of showing off and being ready for release. And the whole premise of CoT is having a lot of different animations to choose from so...I think these are going to take a long time.
3. Chargen assets. The release of the chargen in Fall 2018 doesn't mean that it's done. I think at official game release they'll deliver at least an additional number of chargen assets as the first chargen release (double). Maybe more?
4. Marketing. Marketing takes a while. They havent given any official hints at an official game release and I'd think they'd do that before they hit the 'within-a-year' mark. Again, just my personal opinion.
5. Building the world. We've already been told City of Titans is going to be a MASSIVE game in terms of in-game square miles. 16 miles on a side if I remember right, or was that kilometers? That's a lot of space to fill and detail. No one wants to play in a city that has blocks just copy/pasted, right?
Is there anyway to speed up the official game release to potentially be Fall 2019?
Probably not. However, if they exceed expectations during the 2nd Chance and are able to hire on a few more people paid and full-time, then maybe a sliver of hope for that. But for that I would imagine they'd need to raise more than they did in the original KS.
EDIT: I also think that the 2nd Chance will run from December up until just before the full-game release in an open-donation format but still linked to the rewards based on donation amount. This actually brings up a question...if the 2nd Chance is, in fact, open from release to full-game release, will it 'track' donations? So, for example, if I donate, let's say, $10 a month, after 5 months I'd have donated $50. First, will the website be able to keep track and have a running count of total donations? If so, as the number increases with multiple donations, will you 'get' the rewards as you reach new tiers?
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Pre-emptive
[img]https://i.imgur.com/WHvAeo1.gif[/img]
Awe come on, it's not like this is a sensitive topic for literally every single fan of City of Titans.
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I would hope the caveat you put in the title is enough to keep this thread from getting out of hand emotionally.
I'll be surprised if release of Issue 1 is that far off, but if that's how much time they need to get it right I'm ok with that.
The only thing you haven't mentioned is where beta for Issue 0 fits in. Are you predicting the early Dec AB release to be general release with beta having occurred before that?
Spurn all ye kindle.
Yes, I should have clarified. I think the alpha/beta, pre-chargen release tests will be out of the way by December. I think their Fall 2018 is for the general public, that's my hope. At least, my understanding of the public release is post alpha/beta.
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That is the goal, yes.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I would pay the price if I can support the developers. :D
German - City of Hereos/ Villians- gamer at 2004- 2008
Phenomenal.
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We will ALL pay the price. The price is multi-faceted and is currently being paid in patience. Then we will pay the price of money (for those that have yet to donate like me). Then we will pay the price of more patience awaiting the full-release once the excitement of the chargen fades. How many hours and days can you really spend in there before you the itch to actually play is too great? Even an open chat zone where you can run around can only satiate the thirst for so long. Don't believe me? Try running around Paragon Chat. For me it was fun for a few minutes until I felt like I should be fighting and leveling and teaming.
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I feel that it's not quite a fair comparison. We have played the "full" CoH so we can compare it to that and see/feel what is lacking. With CoT we will not really have that (yes, we can compare it to CoH) but I think the number of options available will give us much more than 5 mins of "quality time" per update during the issue 0 phase. Yes, I fully admit that it may not give enough time to fully fill it between the updates but I think it will give enough.
I dunno, I think DC is onto something here. Some folks will spend hours and hours tweaking costumes, but for me it will be as he says: it will get old quite quickly when we don't yet have actual content. It won't be quite as bad as Paragon Chat, because there won't be the overwhelming sadness of a city that is no longer and instead it will be full of hope of things to come, but still that won't engage me for very long.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Just to clarify, I think releasing the chargen like they are is a GREAT idea. Not only does it help confirm to skeptical people that they have made tremendous progress and the game is actually going to release, but for impatient people like me it will be nice to be able to login to [i]something[/i] when my impatience is too much and fiddle around with different character concepts. Especially once we have a zone to run around in. Yes, I know I'll get bored with such a bare-bones version [b]very[/b] quickly, but I'd still rather have that than nothing. And who knows...maybe the devs have some fun events/things planned for the Issue #0 zone that they have kept completely secret for us.
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Agreed. Plus it gives us a chance to run the AB through a lot of testing, giving MWM a chance to kill a lot of bugs before the actual game goes live.
Spurn all ye kindle.
Yes, very much this. I can't help but think this is a big reason why they are launching it. By full-game release it should be super polished with minimal bugs which will undoubtedly affect people's reviews that step into the game for the first time at full-game release in a good way.
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Your overall timeline seems fine to me (and I would accept that timeline as a future customer); however, your statement regarding missions is not really how things work. They haven't been working on missions for 3 years. They may have started working on missions 3 years ago and popped in every so often to work on more missions, but to say they've taken 3 years to finish half the missions is a misstatement. I think you actually hit on this later on-- they're focused on chargen and the CC and once that's out they can shift resources toward finishing other projects like missions and city-building.
The Altruist, Invulnerability/Super Strength Stalwart.
I don't know...I highly doubt the composition team works on the chargen or anything else. I know that missions take a long time to write, rewrite, get approved and edited, and then 'written' into the game system. And that's only half...then they have to actually create the NPC's and everything else in-game for the missions. I'm sure they are probably close to at least knowing what the rest of the missions are, and a lot of the remaining missions might already be either written out or at least outlined...but the rest of the process takes time.
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I may not re-create/modernize [b]all[/b] 60-some odd of my old-game level 40 and above toons in CoT, but I certainly do anticipate spending dozens of hours in the chargen working on as many as possible.
For those who will spend a lot less, to very little time there, I'd offer (or maybe, I'd hope) that there will be more polished and more integral updates (e.g., sub-system walk-throughs, demos, featurettes) being released as we move through early and mid 2019. This will help sustain enthusiasm and dampen frustrations.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/26pBVBG.png[/img]
([i]Currently developing the Sapphire 7 Initiative[/i])
We get the complete engine not just the Avatar Builder. They will be rolling out updates as they become available. It starts with the AB, but continues with ongoing patches/builds until we are testing the entire game package.
While I'm pretty sure this is true, updates in Issue #0 will most likely consist mainly of additions to the AB. If and when we get a chat zone we can run around in, it's all [i]speculation[/i] as to what updates might look like. It would be cool if, as Catherine America mentioned, we were able to gain access to walk-throughs of a mission or 2, or just cool areas to go to. Not sure how much they would put into an Issue #0 update though...certainly not combat, leveling, enemies, or the like. I can see power animations being released close to the end of Issue #0...but certainly not in the beginning.
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You don't seem to understand DC. We get the entire package, just not access to everything. It starts with the AB, and continues from there. The entire beta process from AB to game happens with each patch.
Example: Issue 0 will be AB with Chat and possibly island walk about.
Issue 0.1 will have NPC interactions to test responses
Issue 0.2 will have test instances.
Etc., etc.
By the time Issues 0.99 comes out, will probably be a stress test, then . . . Opening day and Issue 1.0.
I do, actually, understand...but not having access to it is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same thing as not having it at all. Just because it's there doesn't mean they're going to give us access as soon as they're done with each part. Until they actually come out and say "you will be able to have NPC interactions in Issue #0" or "you will test our instances for us" it's all speculation. All of it. Doesn't matter if it's what seems logical to you...they haven't made any official announcements about it so no one knows. The only thing we can say with any level of confidence is that they should be releasing the AB in the Fall of 2018, and that's not even a guarantee. Chat zone and island to run around on? The devs have said that is what they are hoping for, it's a maybe. It's fitting this conversation is on the speculation thread.
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anyone know if there will be a character wipe with 1.0?
Actually here is the most [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/158959#comment-158959[/url]definitve statement about Issue 0[/url].
If the “almost certainly” portion is causing anyone to equate almost certainly with “maybe”, hopefully this helps: Almost certainly is a high degree of probability (because it is the plan to include them) unless in the small percentage of probability that something blows up and forces us to nix the chat / starter zone portion.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Nothing's certain in life but if “almost certainly” is MWM Devspeak for say something greater than 50% chance that's fine with me. If MWM still manages to roll a "Natural One" on this I would think the worse case scenario would put Issue 0 into the January/February 2019 timeframe which is still a heck of a lot closer than say 2013 was. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I would say very likely since I have never seen anyone leaving characters from that "way back". At most I have seen them leaving them in from [i]Open Beta[/i] as long as that stage was fully feature rich and only having bugs/balancing left. Outside of that I have only seen headstart's but they have been just a few days.
Add in Warcabbit's post just below Tyche's that says they intend to have a chat environment in Issue 0 certainly makes it sound that it will be (much?) more likely than not.
Given how early in the testing process "Issue 0.0" will likely be compared to the launch "Issue 1.0" I'd be surprised if we didn't have a wipe (or even multiple wipes) along the way. At least at some point they'll have the costume and body slider save files working so by then it'll be trivial to "recreate" characters when necessary.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
What Treed said [url=https://cityoftitans.com/comment/158982#comment-158982]here[/url] highly suggests that we will get more and more features released to us during Issue 0 which will culminate in Issue 1 and thus the live release. I mean, what's the point in releasing it to us if we won't have access to it and thus testing it. As far as I understand it Issue 0 is for larger scale beta testing so it would be ridiculous to not have us testing everything they intend to release with Issue 1.
Usually character wipes are done to ensure some players don't use the testing period to finish grind treadmills, especially in games where players can leverage time invested as a means of beating up on other players.
If there is no exp gain during the testing period there is little reason to wipe characters. Especially since the naming system used by CoT will mean people won't be able to get in during that period and claim character names (since people can have the same name).
I don't mind waiting. I just hope to hear updated information on power sets and travel powers sometime soon.
I haven't heard anything about a Teleportation travel power in forever it seems.
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
MWM has faced enough setbacks and delays that its not out of the question to say that nothing is guaranteed until its actually released. I know MWM has every intention of releasing as much as they can with Issue 0...but experience and history leads me to a tempered expectation. Basically it can only get better for me the more they are able to actually release. I'd rather not get my hopes up, even if they are saying it's very likely.
This did bring up a big question in my mind: How long do they want Issue #0 up before Issue #1 release? There is a trade-off of time and perception; the longer Issue #0 is up and as more people experience it, how will the perception to the general public change? People will make videos for months on every social media outlet, what perception will this give the general public? Will this be similar to pre-alpha's of other games that didn't live up to expectations? Will the general public understand what issue 0 is? How long can issue 0 be up before the general public's perception changes for the worse as they see all these videos missing so much of the 'core' game? Combat, leveling, a big open world, etc etc etc. I don't remember specifically which games, but I know there have been a few that released too early and ended up closing down because expectations were higher than the game at release. Now, this isn't the same kind of release, obviously, but the public may not understand that. I wonder where the sweet spot is as far as timeline for Issue 0 and official Issue 1 release.
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I would think issue 0 is part of the beta testing and would be covered by NDA. So there should be no videos that are not released by MWM.
I don't know...anyone can join in by donating during the 2nd Chance and have access to Issue #0. Before long there could be thousands of people in Issue #0. NDA or not, there will be videos 'leaked' even if they are told not to. I have to think MWM knows this and is ok with it. I would agree with this if it was a closed beta...but this is wide-open to the public, anyone that donates whatever amount is needed to get Issue #0.
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Issue 0 IS beta. Issue is the Gold (Live) version that anyone can buy and play. NDA rules will apply for Issue 0.
ANYONE can also play the beta by donating whatever the minimum amount is to get access. I haven't seen anywhere where a dev has said that NDA rules will apply for Issue 0.
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Only price to pay is... The iron price ☠️
Charles Logan
www.cloganart.com
I agree with char gen this year. How much Fall 2018 has been advertised in the videos and mmo media, that is a given.
Everything else is up in the air for me. If I am not mistaken, the char gen was scheduled for 2014? There was an entire thread about the delay that blew up. I think that was 2014? Maybe a bit later?
If the char gen took this long, not sure if we have something playable in 2019. I am not a dev, not in the war rooms. I just don't see it.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
That char-gen was from our KS time when we were in UE3. The change to UE4 was done right after KS when we were approached by Epic to adopt the new engine. We weren’t even allowed to announce the engine change at that time either.
And, over the years, we have been working on other systems as well. Remember, everything we do is modular, each team working on its own piece (heck eve team members within each team on their own piece) completely disconnected from the other pieces.
The Avatar Creator is the first major piece we need to have ready with enough polish for people to use. Other parts come after, but it is t like those pieces aren’t being worked on just so we get the Avatar Creator our.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
I have been under this same impression for a while. But as I was thinking about it, i dont think MWM wants issue 0 out that long before issue 1. If all we had for years was issue 0 everything about the game would fizzle with fans and critics alike. I think the team knows this and will be more motivated to get issue 1 ready. They'll have both more motivation from Issue 0's release and more money from the 2nd Chance to hire full-time employees which will further quicken the process. I dont think Issue 1 in 2019 is likely, but I think possible.
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If it is a Beta, then of course NDA applies.
????
And On top of all that, we have built quite a few versions of the Avatar Creator with different teams and different versions of the Engine over past few years. That means quite a few iterations existed before locking down on the final version and getting it approved.
Optimization, overall integration and refactoring tons of code, along with model fixes and so forth has been quite time consuming, especially when the given team works with a volunteer-based timeline.
So thank you all for being patient! Hoping to rock your socks off soon!❤️
Charles Logan
www.cloganart.com
Wait, I thought the point of the Avatar Builder was to be able to put socks [i]on[/i]…!
Spurn all ye kindle.
It would be hilarious if after years of development the only thing the Avatar Builder did was show a character model with socks and then have those socks fly off in a surprising fashion. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
CoH's old "Crane Kick" animation, used as a ranged attack.
Please don't give Cabbit ideas... This would amuse him for days
[color=green]All Purpose Frog[/color]
Wait until you see the... nope, that would ruin the surprise.
Want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want want....
Sorry, was that out loud?