Skill sets, and how they can affect story and game

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Hospy
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Skill sets, and how they can affect story and game

We heard for a long time in CoX that skill sets were on the way. I think they could have been employed as either part of enhancements, or as part of Alter Egos. Sometimes, your attempts to do something to assist others will help improve your skill at solving a problem.

These items would trigger much more extrapolation from your character in chat-with-Contact scripts. The more skills you have in a situation, your rewards also marginally buffer, but the real rewards come in the scripts come alive and your character is much more active in his missions, relying less on others to solve problems. In a group situation, everyone's skills work, and different characters respond to NPC dialogue differently.

A big example of this in CoX would be Atta's bombs. Disarming them would be something a player is given instructions for by an NPC-- so they are only reproducing the work from instructions, there is no talent required. Completing that mission would automatically grant one point of Bomb Disarmament. In any situation where the character encounters a bomb and wants to turn off the timer, the character is +1 to diffuse the bomb when a success is tested. (This means characters could potentially clear a Landmine field set by a blaster whilst stealthed... although it might come off as a bit obvious that someone's done a disarming, and if it fails, OUCH.)

There would be an optional mission after walking out of the mission door, to retrieve the bombs for study. Bomb Retrieval skill +1 if successful (but there would be a spawned attack and the potential to have the bomb go off on you). If successful, you receive an inspiration that can immediately creates a bomb as an object.

What I'd like to see is stuff like this. (I got started on this list and two hours later I'm still coming up with ideas)

Academics (General) - A general category of catch-all, that makes your character less of a specialist, more of a pub quiz expert. All the really left-field information and trivial stuff, your character knows.
Academics (Mutation) - knowledge of Mutant backgrounds; recognize genetic traits
Academics (Occult) - knowledge of Occult backgrounds; recognize occult symbols
Academics (Science) - knowledge of Science backgrounds; recognize chemicals
Bomb Disarmament - ability to disarm various bomb types in the game and in PvP
Bomb Retrieval - ability to collect disarmed bombs in the game
First Aid - knowledge of healing; Bonus to Natural Healing
Medical, Basic - understand what goes on in a hospital like a qualified nurse, bonus to disease
Medical, Intermediate - understand what goes on in a hospital like anatheisologist, bonus to anti-Pain
Medical, Advanced - understand what goes on in in a hospital like a general practitioner, bonus to heal blunt, edged damaged
Medical, Surgeon - understand what goes on in a hospital like a qualified surgeon, bonus to heal fire, toxic, radiation, etc.
Streetwise - have all sorts of insider knowledge of crime and gang life
Veterinary Medic, Dogs/Cats - bonus to heal Dogs & Cats
Veterinary Medic, Birds - bonus to heal birds

This would also allow for the automatic gain of combined talents, when applicable:

Medical, Advanced + Academic, Science = you know lots about Nanotech technology (Bonus to Device Healing)
Bomb Disarmament + Bomb Retrieval + Stealth = you know about Ambush Bombs (chance to spot ambush bombs)
Streetwise + First Aid = Triage (Bonus to Natural Healing powers)

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I'm not sure I'm for this

I'm not sure I'm for this idea. Perhaps it's just some of the sour taste I got from other MMO's regarding skill sets. I don't know. It just seems like a waste of time to me. Perhaps if done right it might be cool. It just seems like adding in too much stuff to focus on, just one more thing to detract from immersing ones self into the content of the game. Now I not only have to spend hours planning out my build, crafting enhancements, designing a costume, I also have to figure out what kind of skills I want as well? Then there comes the Min/Maxers trying to figure out what skills give a character some kind of distinct advantage. I liked the Day Job Accolades that City had. Perhaps if the skills were done in some kind of similar fashion I might be okay with it.

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oOStaticOo wrote:
Hospy wrote:

We heard for a long time in CoX that skill sets were on the way. I think they could have been employed as either part of enhancements, or as part of Alter Egos. Sometimes, your attempts to do something to assist others will help improve your skill at solving a problem.

I like the general idea of having a collection of "skills" that could affect your access to and success in various missions. But I'd advocate these being kept relatively simple and act more like "prerequisites" to get into certain missions instead of like traditional "character stats" that you'd roll against to affect real-time outcomes.

You mentioned being able to "respond to NPC dialog differently" depending on your skills. This sounds similar to something Elder Scrolls Online does to a minor degree. ESO has two powers called Persuade and Intimidate. These powers don't have numbers associated with them and don't have any effect in combat. All they do is open up new NPC dialog options as you progress through quests to make them easier or grant access to things you would otherwise not be able to get.

So to apply that idea to CoT I could see having things like "Medical Knowledge". This skill would start off at level zero for everyone. As you progress through the game and are presented with different missions to do you can choose to do "medical oriented" missions which when complete will reward you with Medical Knowledge skill points. Then let's say later on there's a special high level mission in the game which would only be accessible if a player in the team has a Medical Knowledge of say level 5 or higher. At that point if you've specialized in Medical Knowledge you might have a high enough skill level to access that mission. But if you don't then maybe you could team up with other players who may have the required level of skill. This would lead to players becoming skill specialists and encourage teaming because if you max up a desired skill then you'd likely be valuable member of a SG for having that specific skill.

I think the biggest difference between your proposal and mine is that I'm not sure these skills should have any real-time stat-like significance. I think they should probably be more limited to NPC dialog options and mission access prerequisites. I don't want to worry about being able to defeat the Big Evil Overlord in the final fight because my "Disarm Doomsday Device" skill is only at level 7 instead of level 8.

oOStaticOo wrote:

I'm not sure I'm for this idea. Perhaps it's just some of the sour taste I got from other MMO's regarding skill sets. I don't know. It just seems like a waste of time to me. Perhaps if done right it might be cool. It just seems like adding in too much stuff to focus on, just one more thing to detract from immersing ones self into the content of the game. Now I not only have to spend hours planning out my build, crafting enhancements, designing a costume, I also have to figure out what kind of skills I want as well? Then there comes the Min/Maxers trying to figure out what skills give a character some kind of distinct advantage. I liked the Day Job Accolades that City had. Perhaps if the skills were done in some kind of similar fashion I might be okay with it.

If something like this idea actually happens it'll need to be limited to just a handful of fairly generic skills. For instance instead of having multiple versions of academics there should just be a single "Academics" skill, period. By keeping this very simple and generic it'd be more applicable to all kinds of characters without the need to min/max a huge number of overly specific things. I'd probably limit the system to no more than maybe 8 or 10 total skills.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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This *kind* of sounds similar

This *kind* of sounds similar to the Path system that Wildstar is using (only game that I am playing right now that I can refer to). Content that is available for those who follow a *certain* path to unlock content. This does mean that those *not* following said path cannnot receive benefits from that content, but it is "optional" bonus content.

One case that I have found already, is that Settler class can repair some mining bots, but only a Scientist path player can actually "reboot" them to mine stuff that a settler (possibly other paths) can use.

A Soldier class can initiate "defend X location" events, which *anyone* can join in (and yes, they scale up to the number of players present). An explorer can discover a hidden path that can have content that the Scientist/Soldier/Settler can do.... it is interplay like this that I would like to see as well.

And yes, these are based (loosely) on the Bartle types. There is no real "killer" path (although the Soldier path is the closest)

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Gangrel wrote:
Gangrel wrote:

This *kind* of sounds similar to the Path system that Wildstar is using (only game that I am playing right now that I can refer to). Content that is available for those who follow a *certain* path to unlock content. This does mean that those *not* following said path cannnot receive benefits from that content, but it is "optional" bonus content.
One case that I have found already, is that Settler class can repair some mining bots, but only a Scientist path player can actually "reboot" them to mine stuff that a settler (possibly other paths) can use.
A Soldier class can initiate "defend X location" events, which *anyone* can join in (and yes, they scale up to the number of players present). An explorer can discover a hidden path that can have content that the Scientist/Soldier/Settler can do.... it is interplay like this that I would like to see as well.
And yes, these are based (loosely) on the Bartle types. There is no real "killer" path (although the Soldier path is the closest)

Yeah this sort of sounds like what I'm envisioning this could be for CoT. The "mission path" that a CoT character follows would be completely independent from whatever AT/powerset/alignment was established during character creation. In effect it could become another way for a player to "roleplay" the kind of character they want to have that'll have in-game relevance.

On a slight tangent this might be a way to redefine the old CoH concepts of "Hero", "Vigilante", "Villain" and "Rogue" with respect to the type of missions you take and/or the paths you can follow. I understand the CoT Morality system will provide a three-way axis for alignment but maybe it could be supplemented by an ongoing "mission pathing" system that could be followed by the character that could serve to reinforce (or even adjust) those initial character alignment choices. Maybe a character starts out a Villain but chooses to only do heroic "path" missions or vice-versa. In this way a player can define a "character arc" for a character and have it play out any way they want.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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In general I like the idea of

In general I like the idea of being able to further personalize my character and add flavor to how that character is played. Being able to use some special skill as a way to help "solve" a case or gain a slight advantage in a mission. Especially as it affects solo play.

What I DON'T want is mission content gated behind "Faction Standing" or specific skill acquisition for which I have to do hours of menial (non-heroic) grinding. Nor do I want the gaining of skills be tied to the aforesaid mechanic. If I am rewarded with generic "skill points" as I do missions that I can then allocate how I like to flesh out my character, then great. Don't make me do hours of "hospital volunteering" to get a +1 First Aid, or take down 100 street thugs just to get a mission from a rival gang.

Worse, don't make me spend hours acquiring a skill that has nothing to do with my character concept in order to experience certain content. This seems counter-productive from a development resource standpoint, anyway. Basically, I don't want to waste time, like in WoW, levelling up my "fishing" or "cooking" or "farming".

On the other hand, if HOW I play affects my standing with certain groups, (killing vs. arresting AVs or stealth vs. door-kicking, etc.) I'm okay with having to do an additional mission to "smooth things over" with a given group to get their assistance.

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We do plan for a non-combat

We do plan for a non-combat powers system which may include things typically associated with skills in other games, travel powers, and super senses. The intent is that they do not provide a direct statistical advantage in combat, but may have an influence in combat. The "skills" noncombat powers would be entirely optional, so you could progress through the game without ever having to dip into those noncombat powers, but if you did, there would be some form of pay off for their use.


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I call them "situational

I call them "situational strategic influence over combat" powers.

An example of what I mean, if you have "systems hacking" (applies to computers, magical wards, etc) you could get a security map of the area. As you progress you can get the guards walking patterns, and at the highest level even hack the turrets and turn them to your side when you are near to them.

Directly, does not influence combat. However, can change the strategy of combat, so is situational.

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

What I DON'T want is mission content gated behind "Faction Standing" or specific skill acquisition for which I have to do hours of menial (non-heroic) grinding. Nor do I want the gaining of skills be tied to the aforesaid mechanic. If I am rewarded with generic "skill points" as I do missions that I can then allocate how I like to flesh out my character, then great. Don't make me do hours of "hospital volunteering" to get a +1 First Aid, or take down 100 street thugs just to get a mission from a rival gang.

Some of it could be handled similarly to the way that CoH had 'Day Jobs' -- you spend X amount of time logged off in a location, and you get some level with a skill relevant to the location.

As for how it would be used, I think that it would be better -- if more complex for the design -- to have character skills tie into the concept of having different ways to enter or complete missions, or with acquiring missions from putting clues together. Spending time logged out in a police station increases your Investigation skill, which can reduce the legwork you do to assemble enough clues to get a mission from clues. Spending time logged out in a hospital increases your First Aid skill, which you can use to stabilize injured NPCs in missions, affecting your alignment or keeping them alive/conscious to feed you a clue or some information that gives you more options for completing the mission, like a security code. Other 'work' locations could increase a Security Systems skill, which would increase your chance to sneak into a mission via an alternate route without alerting anyone that you entered. And so on. All characters would have a base ability, but the additional skill makes it better.

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srmalloy wrote:
srmalloy wrote:

... CoH had 'Day Jobs' -- you spend X amount of time logged off in a location, and you get some level with a skill relevant to the location.

Something about that really bugged me. I always try to relate those Skills to games like The SIMS, where you are actually DRAWING to build up your Creative skills.

Why couldnt CoH have made it the same way, just before we log off, if you're in the Police Station, and you want to gain the Skill there, you would have to sit down (or stand) and read police reports... and as you are in the process of reading police reports... you log off. When you log back in, you are still helping out in the Police Station. It just makes it more believable. ;)

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i idea come to me have the

i idea come to me have CoT the same types of missions available, but the nature of each mission will differ, as will the story behind it. The primary contacts will all be available to you automatically after a certain point, and can be contacted via your cell phone. or There are also NPCs that you must find out in the City. These Heroes or Villains have individual agendas and goals and won't hesitate to use you to achieve them. NPCs aren't out in the open; you may have to search around the given location a bit and Non-combat oriented players can choose missions that may not require much fighting, whereas combat types can go all out with Assassination missions. The missions here have a story as well, but it may or may not be critical in nature. and quests where Non-Combat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QJVGtKPjNc

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

In general I like the idea of being able to further personalize my character and add flavor to how that character is played. Being able to use some special skill as a way to help "solve" a case or gain a slight advantage in a mission. Especially as it affects solo play.
What I DON'T want is mission content gated behind "Faction Standing" or specific skill acquisition for which I have to do hours of menial (non-heroic) grinding. Nor do I want the gaining of skills be tied to the aforesaid mechanic. If I am rewarded with generic "skill points" as I do missions that I can then allocate how I like to flesh out my character, then great. Don't make me do hours of "hospital volunteering" to get a +1 First Aid, or take down 100 street thugs just to get a mission from a rival gang.
Worse, don't make me spend hours acquiring a skill that has nothing to do with my character concept in order to experience certain content. This seems counter-productive from a development resource standpoint, anyway. Basically, I don't want to waste time, like in WoW, levelling up my "fishing" or "cooking" or "farming".
On the other hand, if HOW I play affects my standing with certain groups, (killing vs. arresting AVs or stealth vs. door-kicking, etc.) I'm okay with having to do an additional mission to "smooth things over" with a given group to get their assistance.

Yeah I see what you're saying about not wanting to do "tedious grinding" type activities in order to raise these kinds of non-combat skills. I wasn't necessarily suggesting that kind of thing either.

My idea was that gaining these skill points would pretty much always be associated with mission completion rewards. In other words by just playing through the main "fun" parts of the game you'd gain skills - you wouldn't necessarily have to do a bunch of extra side stuff. So doing a mission that helps some scientists might get you Science skill credit or helping some doctors come up with a cure for a zombie plague will get you some Medical skill credit. As you choose your missions over time you can end up specializing more in certain kinds of missions that might eventually lead to something unique for having a high level skill in certain areas.

I'm also not against the idea of the "completionist" wanting to try to max out all of their skills eventually. I would expect that kind of thing to be pretty hard and/or take a long time to do, but if you eventually want to have full access to everything that all the skills would provide on one character I see no reason why the system would have to prevent that - maybe your character concept is literally "a person who knows everything about everything". ;)

srmalloy wrote:

Some of it could be handled similarly to the way that CoH had 'Day Jobs' -- you spend X amount of time logged off in a location, and you get some level with a skill relevant to the location.
As for how it would be used, I think that it would be better -- if more complex for the design -- to have character skills tie into the concept of having different ways to enter or complete missions, or with acquiring missions from putting clues together. Spending time logged out in a police station increases your Investigation skill, which can reduce the legwork you do to assemble enough clues to get a mission from clues. Spending time logged out in a hospital increases your First Aid skill, which you can use to stabilize injured NPCs in missions, affecting your alignment or keeping them alive/conscious to feed you a clue or some information that gives you more options for completing the mission, like a security code. Other 'work' locations could increase a Security Systems skill, which would increase your chance to sneak into a mission via an alternate route without alerting anyone that you entered. And so on. All characters would have a base ability, but the additional skill makes it better.

I think the Day Job concept can be used for SOME of this non-combat skill system. But like Izzy implied I still think that most of it should be involved with ACTIVELY playing the game and completing certain missions that are oriented to certain skills. I wouldn't want this kind of skill system to rely 100% on things that happen when you're logged off.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Between Tannim and Dr. Tyche

Between Tannim and Dr. Tyche's explanantion, sounds like the kind of thing I'm hoping for.

Lothic, I still think that by doing "Science Missions" and thereby gaining "science related skills" (my quotes, not yours) kind of forces me down a path of acquiring skills willy-nilly as I do missions, whether they are related to my character or not. Or, as you suggest, I only choose missions that get me the skills I want for my character. Neither scenario is ideal. What would my "Sorcerer Supreme" character do with "computer hacking"? or my "Sentient Android" do with "mystic vision"? See what I mean?

I don't want to get into proposing a whole system for it, but I'd rather add to a generic "pool" of skill points while doing missions, (maybe as a percentage of XP, I dunno.) that I could then allocate as I wished, so that it made sense for MY character. If there is a differentiation between types of skill points, at least let me trade them at some kind of ratio for the type of skills I want.

The pretense is that I'm practicing particular "skills" when I'm not otherwise being heroic (on missions). Maybe a specific logout location (ala Day Jobs) could boost the acquisition of certain types of points (presuming, again, that they are different). However, I absolutely agree that being logged off shouldn't garner its own reward. Points should be given for actual active play.

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When I said progressed, I did

When I said progressed, I did not mean to sound like you had to train up or do specific missions. I mean as you progress in your levels, you get power slots unlocked at certain levels. These slots can only be used for these specialized powers, not for general powers.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

When I said progressed, I did not mean to sound like you had to train up or do specific missions. I mean as you progress in your levels, you get power slots unlocked at certain levels. These slots can only be used for these specialized powers, not for general powers.

So, just for instance, at level 6 I get my first slot. I then can pick from a list of "Specialized Powers"?
If I get 1 "SP" per slot, can I improve that Power over time?
I presume there are a finite number of these slots. How many?
Will there be sufficient variety of SPs so that I'm not having to take "filler" powers that don't relate to my character?
If I don't like any of the SPs after the first 2 or 3, can I make some kind of trade?

I don't expect you to necessarily have all these answers nailed down, nor to share them with anyone ahead of your own schedule. Just hope you can look at it from the perspective of keeping the Special Powers aligned with player's character concepts.

This was my biggest beef with the Incarnate trials. The new powers on offer rarely jived with what my characters were all about.

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Yes, the idea is to allow you

Yes, the idea is to allow you to improve the power over time. The number of slots is not yet determined, and the goal is to have a large variety of them. Ideas on the table run the gambit from the various travel powers to sensory improvements (x-ray vision is insanely easy to do, for example) to tracking to the ability to hide. What we want is to have a large selection of options to give more variety and uniqueness.

The idea is not to have "Computer Hacking" but "situational map awareness and utility". We just lack a good term for it. (suggestions more than welcome)

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The thing to remember is that

The thing to remember is that the system isn't meant to be a requirement to the general leveling and progress of your character. If you only want two special powers for say, travel powers, you don't have to take others, but there isn't any current plan to allow for trade offs with other power slots you choose for combat related powers. The two are meant to be distinct from each other.

I have a preliminary write up for the entire noncombat powers system, which includes the number of noncombat powers, how they are improved, the game systems they interact with, and an entire list of special powers, including travel, sensory, and more. The system itself at the moment has taken a back seat to other priorities like the combat powers and such. Hence much of what I've put together may end up changing and feel its too soon to address particulars other than the most basic intent for what we want the system to achieve with some example powers like x-ay vision.


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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Yes, the idea is to allow you to improve the power over time. The number of slots is not yet determined, and the goal is to have a large variety of them. Ideas on the table run the gambit from the various travel powers to sensory improvements (x-ray vision is insanely easy to do, for example) to tracking to the ability to hide. What we want is to have a large selection of options to give more variety and uniqueness.
The idea is not to have "Computer Hacking" but "situational map awareness and utility". We just lack a good term for it. (suggestions more than welcome)

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I agree about the Incarnate

I agree about the Incarnate Powers. There was not any that were very fitting for my Archery/Trick Arrow toon at all. Matter a fact, most well trained/skilled "normal" type heroes were kinda "ill -fitting" for those powers & there were not any good animations that could be presented as gadgets.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

The idea is not to have "Computer Hacking" but "situational map awareness and utility". We just lack a good term for it. (suggestions more than welcome)

You could always just go for SMAU.

Or, if it's a Group of powers, it could be SMAUG. That wouldn't be copyrighted for any reason...

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:
The idea is not to have "Computer Hacking" but "situational map awareness and utility". We just lack a good term for it. (suggestions more than welcome)

You could always just go for SMAU.
Or, if it's a Group of powers, it could be SMAUG. That wouldn't be copyrighted for any reason...

As it is an acronym it wouldn't be.

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But there still could be IP

But there still could be IP and trademark issues arising from copyright of the original.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/does-the-use-of-an-acronym-protect-you-from-copyri-437001.html

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WarBird wrote:
WarBird wrote:

Between Tannim and Dr. Tyche's explanantion, sounds like the kind of thing I'm hoping for.
Lothic, I still think that by doing "Science Missions" and thereby gaining "science related skills" (my quotes, not yours) kind of forces me down a path of acquiring skills willy-nilly as I do missions, whether they are related to my character or not. Or, as you suggest, I only choose missions that get me the skills I want for my character. Neither scenario is ideal. What would my "Sorcerer Supreme" character do with "computer hacking"? or my "Sentient Android" do with "mystic vision"? See what I mean?
I don't want to get into proposing a whole system for it, but I'd rather add to a generic "pool" of skill points while doing missions, (maybe as a percentage of XP, I dunno.) that I could then allocate as I wished, so that it made sense for MY character. If there is a differentiation between types of skill points, at least let me trade them at some kind of ratio for the type of skills I want.
The pretense is that I'm practicing particular "skills" when I'm not otherwise being heroic (on missions). Maybe a specific logout location (ala Day Jobs) could boost the acquisition of certain types of points (presuming, again, that they are different). However, I absolutely agree that being logged off shouldn't garner its own reward. Points should be given for actual active play.

Well I still think if this system was going to be giving us non-combat skills like "computer hacking" then getting skill points in that area would have to involve missions actually hacking computers. So sure your "Sorcerer Supreme" would probably not be too interested in computers and thus steer clear of computer-oriented missions, but just on the off-chance you wanted to have a "sorcerer who also knew how to hack computers" then I'd think he'd have to do those missions that actually exercised that activity. Just like in a fantasy MMO where the only way you gain skill in archery is actually using a bow.

But after reading the latest responses of the Rednames if seems like they are not thinking about a system of "skills based directly on what characters are doing" as much as letting us have access to a specialized pool of powers that we unlock as we progress regardless of the mission types we're doing. These non-combat powers would seem to be completely unrelated to any kind of "character experience or roleplay" at all, and that's fine as long as it's clear that's how it's being established.

So I guess for example I might do a bunch of missions clearing out drug-gangs from slums and eventually gain enough "skill points" to randomly pick up a non-combat X-Ray vision power. Again if it's understood that how it'll work that's fine - I suppose I was just thinking the activities your character does might actually be more directly related to the kinds of "skills" you could get. In the case of X-Ray vision it might make more sense if you did some missions fighting some tech-guys who "rewarded" you with X-Ray goggles once you were done. It'd be less clear to me how a bunch of street thugs and X-Ray vision are related.

With that we might as well have a "tertiary non-combat powerset" that we can all work on. Like our primary and secondary powersets we can fill the third one with whatever we want regardless of the type of missions we do. You could even take it one step further and have the whole system be Influence/Infamy based instead of coming up with new "skill points" for it. Since it doesn't matter what a character does to "earn" these random skills they might as well be something they could buy from third-party gadgeteers. Just pointing out these tangential ideas bear incredibly little resemblance to the OP's original concept here.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Tannim222
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As players you can instill

As players you can instill whatever form of role play desired into the system, as there could be forms of object interaction in some of these powers. Even if we were to have something like computer hacking, which is rather more specific than what is planned, all it would be is an I refraction with the object which happens to look like a computer How your character is getting information is still open to interpretation; maybe it is due to your knowledge of computer programming, maybe your psychic ability can scan electronic systems (like the old movie scanners), maybe a magic user cast a scrying spell on the computer and was ale to "see" its entire network including connected security cameras.

There wouldn't have to be specific missions you had to do in order to gain, or improve those special powers however. There may be some form of these at some point, for at least a subset of these powers, but its more of a germ of an idea and much less fleshed out. As with anything, the system is something that can be built upon should we decide to.


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Lothic
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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

As players you can instill whatever form of role play desired into the system, as there could be forms of object interaction in some of these powers. Even if we were to have something like computer hacking, which is rather more specific than what is planned, all it would be is an I refraction with the object which happens to look like a computer How your character is getting information is still open to interpretation; maybe it is due to your knowledge of computer programming, maybe your psychic ability can scan electronic systems (like the old movie scanners), maybe a magic user cast a scrying spell on the computer and was ale to "see" its entire network including connected security cameras.
There wouldn't have to be specific missions you had to do in order to gain, or improve those special powers however. There may be some form of these at some point, for at least a subset of these powers, but its more of a germ of an idea and much less fleshed out. As with anything, the system is something that can be built upon should we decide to.

To be clear I'm not actually against what you're proposing or how it might work. I'm just trying to make sure there's a definite line drawn between what you're saying and having direct stat-like skills like "Computer Security" that would give me a +1 bonus to unlocking computer-controlled doors.

Basically you're not talking about "stat" oriented skills like those that exist in other games and in that case I would agree there's no need to link earning these skills via specific character activity or mission experience (e.g. my earlier archery example that would require bow use to get increased archery skill).

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

WarBird wrote:
Between Tannim and Dr. Tyche's explanantion, sounds like the kind of thing I'm hoping for.
Lothic, I still think that by doing "Science Missions" and thereby gaining "science related skills" (my quotes, not yours) kind of forces me down a path of acquiring skills willy-nilly as I do missions, whether they are related to my character or not. Or, as you suggest, I only choose missions that get me the skills I want for my character. Neither scenario is ideal. What would my "Sorcerer Supreme" character do with "computer hacking"? or my "Sentient Android" do with "mystic vision"? See what I mean?
I don't want to get into proposing a whole system for it, but I'd rather add to a generic "pool" of skill points while doing missions, (maybe as a percentage of XP, I dunno.) that I could then allocate as I wished, so that it made sense for MY character. If there is a differentiation between types of skill points, at least let me trade them at some kind of ratio for the type of skills I want.
The pretense is that I'm practicing particular "skills" when I'm not otherwise being heroic (on missions). Maybe a specific logout location (ala Day Jobs) could boost the acquisition of certain types of points (presuming, again, that they are different). However, I absolutely agree that being logged off shouldn't garner its own reward. Points should be given for actual active play.

Well I still think if this system was going to be giving us non-combat skills like "computer hacking" then getting skill points in that area would have to involve missions actually hacking computers. So sure your "Sorcerer Supreme" would probably not be too interested in computers and thus steer clear of computer-oriented missions, but just on the off-chance you wanted to have a "sorcerer who also knew how to hack computers" then I'd think he'd have to do those missions that actually exercised that activity. Just like in a fantasy MMO where the only way you gain skill in archery is actually using a bow.
But after reading the latest responses of the Rednames if seems like they are not thinking about a system of "skills based directly on what characters are doing" as much as letting us have access to a specialized pool of powers that we unlock as we progress regardless of the mission types we're doing. These non-combat powers would seem to be completely unrelated to any kind of "character experience or roleplay" at all, and that's fine as long as it's clear that's how it's being established.
So I guess for example I might do a bunch of missions clearing out drug-gangs from slums and eventually gain enough "skill points" to randomly pick up a non-combat X-Ray vision power. Again if it's understood that how it'll work that's fine - I suppose I was just thinking the activities your character does might actually be more directly related to the kinds of "skills" you could get. In the case of X-Ray vision it might make more sense if you did some missions fighting some tech-guys who "rewarded" you with X-Ray goggles once you were done. It'd be less clear to me how a bunch of street thugs and X-Ray vision are related.
With that we might as well have a "tertiary non-combat powerset" that we can all work on. Like our primary and secondary powersets we can fill the third one with whatever we want regardless of the type of missions we do. You could even take it one step further and have the whole system be Influence/Infamy based instead of coming up with new "skill points" for it. Since it doesn't matter what a character does to "earn" these random skills they might as well be something they could buy from third-party gadgeteers. Just pointing out these tangential ideas bear incredibly little resemblance to the OP's original concept here.

Hospy's OP was interesting, but evidently not what we're going to get. As I've indicated, I'm glad that we get to choose our non-combat powers based on our character concept rather than whatever content we run. I can see what you're saying about having to practice the thing you're getting a skill in, but to me that's just one step removed from grinding. Now my powers are gated behind certain content, rather than content gated behind certain powers. Down with gates, up with power choices! :D

And you outright suggest that if I'd rather develop certain skills based on my concept, I should avoid contrary content. I don't want to avoid content. But I wouldn't want that content to saddle me with skills/powers that don't fit my concept, especially if there is a finite amount of skills that I can acquire.

Happily, that doesn't seem to be at issue. You do raise an interesting idea about "Third Party Gadgeteers", though. I love the idea of being able to purchase other "non-combat powers" as temporary gadgets. Maybe x-ray vision doesn't fit with my concept, but would sure help with this one mission? I can purchase a set of "X-Ray Goggles" that have a very limited life. Or maybe I'd like to try out a power to see if I DO want to slot it permanently. Great Idea.

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This is all very good news.

This is all very good news.

---
Now: Anthem's Special Envoy for Economic Growth and Free Trade
Then: Underboss for Acquisitions and Capital Investments - The Black Rose
Soon: Operational Commander, Titan City Citizens' Assault Team (TCCAT) - Tarot Counter-Assault Unit

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Im getting a lot of D&D

Im getting a lot of D&D skills game mechanics vibes running through my mind. To me, it seems like a very well playtested system for controlling out of combat(a little in combat) method for developing your character.
Any out of combat skill/power trees need to be carefuly thought out. My experience is that games either go with the you need every skill, making you level all skills evenly, or exclusive, making half of the skills required, but useless to how you want to develop your character.
Im not sure how much the game engine will allow, but any system that will allow me to actually build my character to develop my skills the way I want my charater to develop, I am eagerly waiting. I am not afraid to put work into my character if that means more freedom to complete my character concept.

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can we have Skill sets of 4th

can we have abilities 4th wall breaks CoT like Deadpool? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXGsv9nsNs

whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, the abyss also look into you, -Friedrich

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"Hola, me llamo piscina de la

"Hola, me llamo piscina de la muerta" lol!

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