Could there be a place (or places) in the game where NPC heroes can be picked up for a few adventures. You could only get sidekicks your own level or lower. There would be several available at each level so you could choose a sidekick with the abilities you need to compliment your own or to get through a specific mission.
Having an option like this, would make it a lot easier to solo or to fill up a team. It would also allow the developers to create missions that you can't complete without specific abilities. If you don't have the needed ability, you can always get a sidekick.
Dungeons & Dragons Online already has a feature like this called hirelings.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
DDO just improved the AI o hires and lets you customize it finally as of the last update. Major improvement for someone with 3 past lives druid harper enhancement augment summoning and grand summoner from the ED. A total of + 22 to all stats over base for an Arti with the right line. Add in a good +7 stat augment to their collar and you have a summon that is almost viable in Epic Elites. and it perfectly viable in Epic hards now. The downside is it takes all that just to make them almost viable at the end game.
I still love my level 3 cleric permanent gold seal summon with Divine Vitality 1. with all those boosts she can give back almost 600 mana every 5 minutes anywhere in a dungeon out of combat. I did like that part of guild wars 1, npcs that you can customize.
The line between knowing and understanding is often blurred.
Cute Kitsune the Anti Villain of Phoenix Rising.
I have more fervor then empathy, I still like you.~Me to a friend
It applies here too, I'm passionate not hostile.
Well, I fully support this movement. So long as the AI's can function properly, then I see no harm in it. [b]What could go wrong?[/b]
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Thanks AAIbusUUmbra (that's quite a name) I was tarting to think I wasn't going to get any more response.
Everyone else, if you think this is something you'd like to see be sure to let the Devs know by saying so here.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
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i make a topic name Rent-A-Hench Feature same thing like u say but add real players who offline and u can hire to help u
here it is if u look at it http://cityoftitans.com/forum/rent-hench-feature-has-potential
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I can't help myself.
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Personal rules of good roleplay
1.) Nothing goes as planned.
2.) If it goes as planned it's not good RP
I had a cute idea for what to do when a sidekick gets defeated. Instead of just reviving them normally they get transported to an unexplored location on the same map and you have to find and rescue them. When you find them they'll be in some cartoony death trap. there could be several different traps possible so you never know what you'll see. But rescuing them would be done by clicking on them. It would just be for laughs so the sidekick would never actually get killed.
Anyway it's most likely no one else would like this but it was funny so I hope you got a laugh reading it.
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NO. If the player was offline when I hired him, what happens if he logs on?
And No no no! I don't want another way to contact other players I want an easier way to Solo. That means no other players. Look a lot of people don't get this but I hate playing online games With other players. I want to be able to solo at all times. I have no interest in PVP, Taskforces, raids, or even teaming up with any other players unless they're my offline friends. I don't meet people online anymore. It was Always a bad experience when I did.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Having a sidekick was something I wished for quite often while playing CoH. Especially when leveling a more fragile, team orientated hero or villain. Therefore I strongly support the idea.
For me it would be more then enough if the sidekick- option would be limited for solo play and having a few drawbacks like lesser experience- and ingenuity gain, since the sidekick gets his/ her share. That way I could at least play my supporter as supporter and buff and heal my sidekick instead of trying and failing to be a blaster...
On the other hand, I believe that it was stated that every archetype is supposed to be able to hold it's ground solo, so maybe we won't even have much use for sidekicks. Time will tell.
Whether we need it or not I'd just like to have it.
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I like the idea. But I think we'd be better off creating power-sets such that everyone had reasonable survive-ability. Giving everyone a power that will heal or defend them long enough to get out or recover from a sticky situation. Similarly a power scaling system like was implemented later on in COH would be a great way to dial things up or down for a given character's build. Along with balancing for spawn size and strength there could be an option for stealth v. force. Set my missions to encourage stealth play or smash play. Balancing a mission along these multiple points should negate the need for a side-kick. How precisely all the works is up to someone else.
Still I'm not adverse to having a side-kick but I'd rather see it as a story element rather than borrowing a low rank hero to help for one task or two.
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Personally, I would like it better if we could have a custom sidekick, who would stay with us, and level up with us, instead of a group of fixed hirelings like Dungeons & Dragons. But I suggested it this way, because I thought it was more likely to be doable. I figure if D&D can do it you can.
If customizable personal sidekicks are a possibility I'd like to see it.
And above all let me emphasize, this may not be Needed, but it is definitely Wanted.. There may be a million ways to make soloing easier so sidekicks aren't necessary, but I'll always want one,
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
They could even offer hooks for storytelling. Something like when you played through a few missions with a sidekick, you earn his trust and he asks you to help him in a mission, you can only get through him. There could even be a whole storyarc to help him get a new power or something.
There is one advantage though to the sidekick hangout version of the idea which I mentioned in the opening post :
" It would also allow the developers to create missions that you can't complete without specific abilities. If you don't have the needed ability, you can always get a sidekick".
But there's no reason you couldn't do both. In Dungeons & Dragons, 2 of the classes (Druids & Artificers) have helpful pets that they customize (a bit) and that level up with them.
It might be a good idea to have the personal sidekick option available to a specific class, in this game, also; while still making hirelings available to everyone.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Oh, no. I don't want to see missions where I have to have X Build or X Powers. No thank you. That sounds too much like WoW Raiding for my tastes. It may sound good to you, but not to me. I want my character to be able to do everything it needs to be able to do to finish a mission. I don't want to have to rely on anybody to be able to complete a mission. Also, AI more than likely won't work the way you are hoping it would in helping you to finish that mission. AI has a mind of it's own and it may not use the correct powers needed to help you complete that mission or do it enough times to make it work. We need to stay away from that kind of thinking in regards to having specific powers, abilities, or builds in order to finish a mission. No bueno.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
I must agree, Static. I never want to see a 'You must have power X to complete this mission' unless power X is a temporary power given to the character as a part of the mission.
Sidekicks or hirelings don't have to be Totally dependant on AI. You can have a special task bar that allows you to give them commands.
You know while we're waiting on COT, you should give DDO a try. You can FTP. It's been around a long time (For an MMO) and they've figured out some cool ways to do things that might give you some ideas.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
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As a compromise, Sidekicks could offer up different ways to complete a mission. Like normally you would go the straight route, just kick in the door and arrest everyone that resists. But with the hacker- sidekick, you just have the alternative of bypassing security first and find a secret passage. This way they offer up alternatives and are no must have.
I really don't have a problem with sometimes needing help or having to admit that some missions just aren't for me. It gives me a reason to use different characters and it makes a lot of sense. Spider-man doesn't go on the same kind of adventures as the Avengers, and sometimes the Fantastic 4 couldn't have survived without Sue's invisibility.
And I vow an oath that if anyone says "what works in the comics doesn't always work in a game" I will become the worst supervillain the world has ever known and seek vengance
Sorry that was my other personality. Just please don't say that, because it's a stupid stock answer, people use to avoid thinking.
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I understand you feel very passionately about your suggestions. Unfortunately not everybody's suggestions are as great of an idea as they themselves believe them to be. You can't post a suggestion and then tell people not to dislike your idea. There is always going to be a difference of opinion when it comes to how closely one feels a game that is based off of a comic book should balance the line between reality and fantasy. Each person's idea is going to differ when it comes to where that line is. Also "What works in the comics doesn't always work in a game." is a very valid reason for why sometimes a suggestion isn't a very good one. There are different rules. When a writer writes a character into a situation there is always a way the writer can get that character out of it, simply because they are writing the story and can make things up as they see fit. A game has to follow a certain set of codes that defines exactly what it can and can't do.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
That's all true to a point that point being when you said " "What works in the comics doesn't always work in a game." is a very valid reason for why sometimes a suggestion isn't a very good one"
It's true that some Ideas from comics can't be used. I know that, but this catchphrase isn't a reason for not using any particular idea. It's just a dismissal of an idea without giving any serious examination. Why doesn't this particular idea work? What is it about this particular idea that makes it unworkable. By lumping it it in with unworkable ideas and labeling it you're saying I'm not willing to even see if it can work.
"What works in the comics doesn't always work in a game" should be a conclusion we reach at the end of a discussion it's not a way to bypass the discussion altogether.
Now back to the topic of missions that you need a specific power to complete. There are a lot of reasons a mission might require a specific ability, but there are just as many different ways to make sure that players can get what they need. Sidekicks or hirelings are just one way. you can also do it by granting temporary powers or giving temporary equipment. In some cases you can safely assume that characters of a certain level will have access to certain abilities. In Dungeons & Dragons Online a lot of the higher level missions assume you'll have feather fall or water breathing and if you don't you can't finish the mission but you can always go get them somewhere, and come back. Even if you don't use the sidekick or hireling option, you can have NPCs built into missions or assume we can team up with other players. There are so many ways to work around the problem that it's just silly to avoid creating missions like that when they're a very common element of every adventure genre.
Even being a superhero at all generally assumes you need some kind of powers to confront the villains, or else the police would keep us safe and we wouldn't need superheroes.
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Watch this Question and the Answer they give:
http://youtu.be/jq_XARF6Or8?t=30m14s
It can make you think about this in different ways. :)
Perhaps the easiest and maybe the better solution to this lies in the Controller/Mastermind AT. Possibly give some kind of option that allows people to customize their "Pets" in such a way that they have a little more control over them and what they can do. However, I would still try to stay away from making missions that have to have specific ATs or Powers to complete. To me, that just reeks of bad writing.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
It's not bad writing at all; it's very good writing. A problem has to have a solution and the heroes have to find that solution and use it.
The only alternative and I do mean only is to make every mission solvable either by brute force or without powers at all.
It's good writing to challenge the heroes by making them work to solve the problem
It's good writing to make sure the solution is available.
It's bad writing to have a hero who's abilities solve everything for him without him ever having to think about anything or ask anyone for help.
It's bad writing to tailor every situation to fit the abilities your hero already has.
It's bad writing to make a situation so generic that every hero solves it the exact same way and his particular power set doesn't even matter.
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I will have to disagree with you on that. To me, forcing a certain situation because you want to make something impossible is not good writing.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
Who said anyone was forcing a situation or wanting to make anything impossible?
I Said providing a solution to the problem and expecting the heroes to find it and solve it.
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If the problem requires a specific power, then the situation is being forced. A better way to do it would be to have a problem that requires a specific set of criteria that could be solved a number of ways and let the player figure out a way to meet those criteria.
A limited example of this would be the building fires in Steel Canyon. Yes, the fire chief gave out an extinguisher to put out the flames. That would be Solution 1. Solution 2 was that heroes with ice powers could use their powers to extinguish the flames. The problem was 'Put out the fire'. The criteria was 'power that has put out fire as part of its abilities' and the solution could be either the extinguisher temporary power or an ice power. (Maybe a water power as well, I don't recall if the water powerset also worked.)
What you're saying is not "a better way" as you say. It's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about, and advocating.
Its a situation where you need ice powers. Nothing else works, but you have a way to get the ability if you don't already have it: the fire extinguisher.
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No, you're missing the point. The solution is not 'ice powers'. The solution is 'something to extinguish the flame'. In this particular instance it was either the fire extinguisher or ice powers, but I did say that it was limited. In a less-limited design, there could be multiple solutions that do not hinge on a particular power set.
For example:
Ice powers can extinguish the fire directly.
Water powers can extinguish the fire directly.
The Quicksand power can smother the fire.
Someone with super strength could smash the supports of a nearby water tower and extinguish the fire.
Someone with a force field power could enclose the fire in a bubble, starving it of oxygen and extinguishing the fire.
And so forth...
And if the player happens to not have any of the powers that can extinguish the fire, then there is the option of the fire extinguisher.
No I'm not missing the point. Although there are lots of ways to put out a fire, the mission in the game only allowed one to work. Ice powers, and if you didn't have it you could get it. It's exactly what I was talking about without the slightest hint of a variation. If the game had been more detailed it's possible that other methods could've worked and that would've been fine, in fact better but I know what I'm talking about and this IS it.
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And I'm pointing out that that limiting the solution to a specific power, instead of specific result, is a poorer solution. A fire that could only be put out with Ice Blast and not with Water Blast is not as good of a design as one that can be put out multiple ways. You keep focusing on specific powers being required and that is the point. Missions shouldn't be written around specific powers but rather specific results. If there is a switch that you have to reach up near the ceiling, making it so that only the Flight power can reach it (blocking out Hover, super-jump, teleport, etc) is just poor writing.
I never said anyone should write a mission around a specific power,
It's not something I would try to do but...
I did say:
We shouldn't avoid a situation where only one power can work
I think such situations will develop, naturally, in a lot of stories.
We shouldn't consider it bad writing if it happens.
It's perfectly acceptable, and when it occurs we have a lot of ways to make sure that the needed power is available
Finally, and Above All, Sidekicks &/or Hirelings are one of the many possible ways to make sure that the needed powers are available.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Well, I really don't care if we have or don't have Sidekicks or Hirelings. All I ask is that there is still the ability to complete missions without them being necessary.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
And I am saying that we should avoid a situation where only one power can work.
In comics the 'one power' solution can work because the writer is writing for a specific character or set of characters. As such, the story can develop that way and it works for that environment. However, in a game the gamemaster (which is essentially what the people coming up with the missions are) has to be more flexible. It's a truism among GMs that if you work out every possible action your players might take, they will then take an action you hadn't considered.
Now, a video game, unlike a tabletop game, is more restrictive in possible actions, so that the GMs have a better chance of mapping out possible actions. But they still need to take into account that the mission is not going to only be run by characters with specific pre-determined powers. Thinking about how various powers might be used in the situation and planning accordingly generates a better story, better immersion and shows more imagination and creativity than a one-power-only solution.
The way I read it, you two actually agree. The only thing you both misunderstand is each others definition of 'only one power'.
To Mendicant I think this is a specific power out of a certain powerset. Something like 'only empathic healing can restore the NPC enough to help you, every other healing power will not work. You have not got it? Mission failed, sucks to be you...'
And to TheMightyPaladin, it seems to be more like 'you need a power that is based on electricity to short circuit those controls, so you can advance. You do not have electro- powers? Okay, you could go and defeat the head guard, he uses a taser you will then get as temporary power or you could ask Lightning Kid to help you out etc...'
I hope this helps and apologize if I got it wrong...
I think you got it spot on
Here's a quote from a game I'm making I hope it gives you other ideas for how this situation can be dealt with when making the mission:
" WHAT ELSE HAVE WE GOT?
If you don't seem to be able to hurt your target, it's probably time to try something else. Try a different attack type or a weapon made of a different material. Grab some power lines and shock him, or try some fire, Freon, silver or Iron. Whatever the enemy is vulnerable to, it's sure to be around here somewhere. Just remember that Guns usually don't work, because if they did, regular cops would take care of the bad guys and we wouldn't need action heroes. "
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Yep, I think Lutan hit the nail right on the head.
Sidekicks for Hire™ is a good alternative in solo, or small group play. I'd rather have a RL player along, though it's nice to have options open.
FOCLMGHO! You said "What could go wrong?" Well if you're me, pick a disaster and it happens. Heheh
PS I don't think SfH is really trademarked, but it was a neat thought to put it there. IMHO of course.
Watches in horror as my newly hired Support Sidekick heals the enemy, instead of me!
FOCLMGHO is Fell Off Chair, Laughing My Goofy Hat Off ;-D
Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.
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I am in support, of your support. HUZZAH and RAWR!
Capt Odee, saving the city one click at a time.
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