TheInternetJanitor wrote:

They have been careful about protecting themselves legally. They aren't directly touching anything produced by NCsoft. They basically are making a front end that could run all sorts of stuff ... that just happens to be able to interface with the old CoH content. Complete coincidence. That is their legal defense.

If/when they come out with something playable they have said they'll never actually release CoH content, you would have to find that yourself, as a way of protecting themselves from lawsuit. Their product would be able to load it, but they can't give the actual content away without putting a big bullseye on them.

I agree with you Lothic, I think if a solid emulator had come out many years ago with the content from the final issues people would be playing it but now it is hard to view that project as a shining beacon of hope for the future.

Well maybe if they don't try to "sell" anything they're working on then they might have a chance. The second they try to make a dime off of whatever they're doing is when they would most likely be screwed. Again I wish them luck for what it's worth...

I just can't see myself wanting to ever devote serious time to it, even if they somehow managed to recreate a perfect "simulation" of Issue 24 CoH. To be perfectly honest by the time CoH had shut down I had pretty much played through -all- of the game's content multiple times (in service to my badging obsession) so the idea of playing it again without much hope of ever getting any significant updates doesn't appeal to me at this point.

Interdictor wrote:

I posted about this a while back. It looks promising, though likely still years from being "playable." They plan on letting players make their own content, which should be interesting to see just how they plan on implementing this. Of course, there will likely be a community effort to get Issue 24 CoX working again. It won't be endorsed by the SEGS team of course, and if people use it to create their own private servers then that's on them if NCSoft decides to do something about it. But if it gets out in the "wilds" of the internet there's not much NCSoft can do if people keep their heads down.

Personally, I wouldn't mind revisiting CoX again for old time's sake. I enjoy playing through older games every now and then (especially RPGs); and CoX, even frozen at Issue 23 or 24 beta, still has tons of content.

Well if they plan to let "anyone" generate modded content to "add" to the basic game that might actually motivate me to give it a try but like you said it would be interesting to see how they would accomplish/organize that.

To be perfectly honest if they actually "launched" something like what you're describing I'd probably load it up just to see what it looks like regardless. I would still never bother to replay the thousands of hours it would take to "recreate" my original main badging characters, but I might just make a few disposable alts just to see how successful the whole thing turns out to be.

Interdictor wrote:

Lothic wrote:

To be perfectly honest if they actually "launched" something like what you're describing I'd probably load it up just to see what it looks like regardless. I would still never bother to replay the thousands of hours it would take to "recreate" my original main badging characters, but I might just make a few disposable alts just to see how successful the whole thing turns out to be.

Well, technically we should have complete control over the account and character files on our own "server", just as a dev would have, so if you wanted to recreate your mains, you would just give them the appropriate goodies directly, no need to play through the thousands of hours. Grant the character xp to get to level 50, give yourself max veteran status, turn "on" whatever badges you want, unlock costume parts etc. How difficult this would be would depend on how good the UI is I suppose.

Eh, even if were possible to simply "hack" up fully loaded characters like that it'd still be semi-pointless from my point of view. I currently have pretty much all of the "info" I would need to do that stored away in various files/lists I've kept over the years. Sure I could go through the motions of "recreating" a new set of local characters on this private little server of mine but it would not be truly "official" the same way it was on the original live CoH servers. Who's to judge whether I actually EARNED any of it for real all those years ago or not?

I can understand what you're saying might be interesting to some people but the mere act of "photo-shopping" local images of long dead characters holds absolutely no fascination for me. *shrugs*

One thing is for sure: If people were able to run their own "private CoH servers" the hard-core RPers would have an absolute field day. Instead of having to keep to themselves in Pocket D groups of RPers could choose to play anywhere in the game and do anything they'd want without interference.

It would be amazing if we could get to the point where we could choose to play either in a private local CoH server OR a private local CoT server because remember the folks at MWM have told us that being able to have private CoT servers is also a long term goal of theirs as well.

alltrueist wrote:

Lothic wrote:

One thing is for sure: If people were able to run their own "private CoH servers" the hard-core RPers would have an absolute field day. Instead of having to keep to themselves in Pocket D groups of RPers could choose to play anywhere in the game and do anything they'd want without interference.

It would be amazing if we could get to the point where we could choose to play either in a private local CoH server OR a private local CoT server because remember the folks at MWM have told us that being able to have private CoT servers is also a long term goal of theirs as well.

I don't like the idea of a private sever for a game that still exists. You're drawing revenue away from a product, it's tantamount to theft. Private servers or EMUs for games that went under are awesome thought, and I plan to play SEGS to check out some of the content I missed at the end of the game (I never did some Signature Story Arcs, for example).

As an example, I am interested in checking out Vanilla WoW (I joined in BC), but I won't play on a private server. Either Blizzard releases Vanilla officially and I pay them for it, or I don't ever see it. I am very pro-"pay people for their work"

I don't really see how you could equate a game company providing its players private servers as "theft" when they are willingly providing the capability to its customers. At best it might be "counterproductive" to their goal to earn money from subscriptions. But you can't really "steal" something that someone is consensually handing to you. Remember MWM is more about providing the game to its players rather than trying to make as much money as possible.

At least for MWM the idea of "private CoT servers" is a long term goal. I honestly wouldn't expect to see them fully ready to go until months or even years after CoT officially launches. I recall the MWM Rednames talking about private servers in reference to the far-flung idea that if there ever came a time that MWM ceased to exist that people would still be able to play CoT for eternity. But it's always possible they may end up providing the capability for people to have private servers BEFORE they actually go out of business.

For what it's worth I think you might have to start to get used to the idea of private servers being a "thing" even with games that are still active. Case in point is the upcoming Fallout 76 game. The Devs at Bethesda have said that they fully intend to provide private server capability ASAP after its launch. Yes it's true the "payment model" of Fallout 76 will be different from CoT, but the point still stands that games offering private server features will likely only get more common as time moves forward.

Project_Hero wrote:

Lothic wrote:

alltrueist wrote:

Lothic wrote:

One thing is for sure: If people were able to run their own "private CoH servers" the hard-core RPers would have an absolute field day. Instead of having to keep to themselves in Pocket D groups of RPers could choose to play anywhere in the game and do anything they'd want without interference.

It would be amazing if we could get to the point where we could choose to play either in a private local CoH server OR a private local CoT server because remember the folks at MWM have told us that being able to have private CoT servers is also a long term goal of theirs as well.

I don't like the idea of a private sever for a game that still exists. You're drawing revenue away from a product, it's tantamount to theft. Private servers or EMUs for games that went under are awesome thought, and I plan to play SEGS to check out some of the content I missed at the end of the game (I never did some Signature Story Arcs, for example).

As an example, I am interested in checking out Vanilla WoW (I joined in BC), but I won't play on a private server. Either Blizzard releases Vanilla officially and I pay them for it, or I don't ever see it. I am very pro-"pay people for their work"

I don't really see how you could equate a game company providing its players private servers as "theft" when they are willingly providing the capability to its customers. At best it might be "counterproductive" to their goal to earn money from subscriptions. But you can't really "steal" something that someone is consensually handing to you. Remember MWM is more about providing the game to its players rather than trying to make as much money as possible.

At least for MWM the idea of "private CoT servers" is a long term goal. I honestly wouldn't expect to see them fully ready to go until months or even years after CoT officially launches. I recall the MWM Rednames talking about private servers in reference to the far-flung idea that if there ever came a time that MWM ceased to exist that people would still be able to play CoT for eternity. But it's always possible they may end up providing the capability for people to have private servers BEFORE they actually go out of business.

For what it's worth I think you might have to start to get used to the idea of private servers being a "thing" even with games that are still active. Case in point is the upcoming Fallout 76 game. The Devs at Bethesda have said that they fully intend to provide private server capability ASAP after its launch. Yes it's true the "payment model" of Fallout 76 will be different from CoT, but the point still stands that games offering private server features will likely only get more common as time moves forward.

They mean private servers like you can find private servers of games and then play those games for free.

Ragnarok Online had a bunch back in the day. These were not supported by the developers or the company that owned the games and would frequently get taken down.

Some private servers, which I think we're called parallel servers, did require a person to have an active account with the game in question.

Not like the private servers of online games that require you to have a copy of the game (and/or subscription) and are just seperate from the masses.

Yeah when I use the term "private servers" here I'm not talking about "illegal third party servers" that are not authorized by the game company. I'm talking about legitimate "local servers" that run the game on your local machine but are still organized/built on purpose by the game company. The main advantage of sanctioned private servers is that you can invite whoever you want to play with you instead of being on a traditional "public server" (like the ones we played on in CoH) that anyone can log into.

In the case of Fallout 76 they are going to offer what they are calling "private servers" but in reality you're still going to be playing online on one of the Bestheda machines. The game will still be running on their hardware but again the main advantage is that you'll control the access of that "server" so you could play with only the people you want to play with or even by yourself.

Regardless none of what I'm talking about here involves anything "illegal" in any way.

Project_Hero wrote:

I was just explaining what I thought alltruest meant by private server.

That is what a lot of these illegal third party servers call themselves. Probably because it's shorter and doesn't sound as bad.

I had personally kind of forgotten that usage until this conversation came up then I was like "Oh, right" and noticed you were both talking about different things.

That's exactly why I clarified my usage of the term. Both the Devs of CoT and the guys talking about Fallout 76 have recently called what they're proposing to be "private servers" as well. The key is that sometimes "private servers" are [b]illegal[/b] and other times they are not.

Atama wrote:

I own Conan Exiles and it uses private servers also. So does Minecraft. Lots of games use them, heck the original Diablo had online multiplayer that only worked from private servers.

The point is that there's nothing wrong with "private" servers as long as they are not also "illegal" servers. The word [b]private[/b] should not automatically imply they are [b]bad[/b], especially now that more games are openly/actively providing the feature to their players.

Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:

I was just explaining what I thought alltruest meant by private server.

That is what a lot of these illegal third party servers call themselves. Probably because it's shorter and doesn't sound as bad.

I had personally kind of forgotten that usage until this conversation came up then I was like "Oh, right" and noticed you were both talking about different things.

That's exactly why I clarified my usage of the term. Both the Devs of CoT and the guys talking about Fallout 76 have recently called what they're proposing to be "private servers" as well. The key is that sometimes "private servers" are [b]illegal[/b] and other times they are not.

My apologies for missing it, but where have the CoT devs said they'll offer private servers while the game is still running?

Beyond the money issue, I don't understand why you'd fracture the playerbase like that. In an MMO, we need to group up. Hard to do that as a new player when everyone's off in their own private shards with their guilds.

The thing to keep in mind here is that SEGS is nothing new. In fact, it's very, very old. SEGS began development for Issue 2 of CoH. Yes, it is now 14 years old, and only now reaching this level of maturity.

As for private servers, let me state this again:

We have no problems with private servers.

Project_Hero wrote:

Soon it'll be old enough to drive!

Edit: Also I just noticed, Doc, your signature says "interent" instead of what I think was supposed to be internet.

I know. It is a direct quote, typo and all.

alltrueist wrote:

Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:

I was just explaining what I thought alltruest meant by private server.

That is what a lot of these illegal third party servers call themselves. Probably because it's shorter and doesn't sound as bad.

I had personally kind of forgotten that usage until this conversation came up then I was like "Oh, right" and noticed you were both talking about different things.

That's exactly why I clarified my usage of the term. Both the Devs of CoT and the guys talking about Fallout 76 have recently called what they're proposing to be "private servers" as well. The key is that sometimes "private servers" are [b]illegal[/b] and other times they are not.

My apologies for missing it, but where have the CoT devs said they'll offer private servers while the game is still running?

Beyond the money issue, I don't understand why you'd fracture the playerbase like that. In an MMO, we need to group up. Hard to do that as a new player when everyone's off in their own private shards with their guilds.

If I had to speculate even if CoT allowed for the option to have private servers while MWM was still "alive" I think the people who would run these private servers would still want to keep their servers "up-to-date" with the latest fixes and updates. I imagine MWM will have a system in place to allow people to download the "latest private server" code but in order to do that you'd likely still have to be a registered/subscribed member or at the very least they might charge a nominal extra fee to gain access to that.

Sure people might still decide to "pirate" the private server code amongst themselves but I actually suspect that most people would be honorable and choose to pay for it. Remember even the people who would play by themselves on private servers would realize that the only way they're going to get any new legal fixes/updates is to financially support MWM for that.

P.S. I was one of those CoH players who was huge into collecting badges. Half the fun of that was "showing off" all your badges to other competitive players. I would imagine that if the time came that CoT allowed for private servers that "true badgers" would likely only consider badge collections on the "public servers" to be official. Also there were quite a few badges that could only be gained via large raids which would mean that the public servers would likely be the only feasible way to get many of those badges.

Bottomline anyone who cares about things like badging will be motivated to remain active on the public servers. I suspect there will be plenty of other reasons why the "majority" of players would also prefer to remain on the public servers even if the private servers become an option.

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Not all content is stored on the client, keep in mind. Missions, contacts, even NPC spawning is from the official servers. Someone without an account would therefore have a large, and empty, world.

So just to be clear I'm guessing the main "advantage" of running a private server while MWM is still active would be that the "server owner" could regulate who would get to play on their server correct? As I understand it this is effectively the same plan that Fallout 76 will be operating under.

Also I assume that if worst came to worst and MWM was going to have to shut down at some point that the "Plan B solution" would enable players' private servers to become "fully capable" of running the game in isolation considering that they would no longer be able log into MWM correct?

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Lothic wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Not all content is stored on the client, keep in mind. Missions, contacts, even NPC spawning is from the official servers. Someone without an account would therefore have a large, and empty, world.

So just to be clear I'm guessing the main "advantage" of running a private server while MWM is still active would be that the "server owner" could regulate who would get to play on their server correct? As I understand it this is effectively the same plan that Fallout 76 will be operating under.

Also I assume that if worst came to worst and MWM was going to have to shut down at some point that the "Plan B solution" would enable players' private servers to become "fully capable" of running the game in isolation considering that they would no longer be able log into MWM correct?

Bingo.

There is also a third part: UGC can still run on private servers as well.

Cools and as always thanks for the input/effort.

The idea that UGC can be run on a CoT private server is nothing to scoff at. I just read [url=https://www.inverse.com/article/47476-new-fallout-4-miami-mod-looks-official]an article[/url] about a bunch of modders creating a very "official-like" DLC for Fallout 4 called Fallout:Miami which should be almost as expansive/detailed as an official Bethesda release.

alltrueist wrote:

Doctor Tyche wrote:

Not all content is stored on the client, keep in mind. Missions, contacts, even NPC spawning is from the official servers. Someone without an account would therefore have a large, and empty, world.

Oh, okay. Then I rescind my concerns :D

Yeah I had assumed that as soon as MWM was to implement their private servers for CoT that they would be instantly "fully independent" (as per the Plan B contingency in case MWM had to shut down and there would no longer be ANY interaction with their systems).

I don't think Redname (up until today) had ever mentioned the idea that the CoT private servers would [b]initially[/b] still require connection to MWM in order to be "functional". As I mentioned this is pretty much exactly how Bestheda is planning to run their private servers for Fallout 76.

This directly ensures a player running a private server must still be "financially supporting" MWM at least as long as MWM remains a viable company. ;)

Cinnder wrote:

I'm trying to remember an old thread and may get this wrong, but isn't it also the case that what happens on a private server stays on the private server, meaning that a character can't achieve something on a private server and take that achievement to the real servers? i.e. you can copy a character and send it to a private server, but that copy can't return to replace the original.

I'm pretty sure that's the only fair way it could work.

Based on the fact that the private servers are going to allow for UGC it's probably safe to say that the players running those servers will have all sorts of "god-mode" control over things on their private servers. This means they might be able to give their characters things like badges and other awards without actually "earning" them the proper, intended ways. So yes it would be highly unfair for anyone to be able to load a "hacked" character back up to the public servers.