In City of Heroes, once I unlocked Sands of Mu all of my characters got it,
Even characters who really shouldn't have had it.
Now it was cool for my scrappers and tanks but kind of weird for everyone else.
Admittedly I didn't have to use it,
but come on who's gonna have something like that and not use it?
For most of my characters it was their best attack (including the scrappers and tanks)
I guess what I'm saying is be more careful about giving out stuff like that
and maybe make all accolades take different forms depending on your class and/or power sets.
—
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I agree, it didn't lead to satisfying things. I used it on my noobs whether it fit or not and just pretended it wasn't happening till I could discard it. I didn't use it on any of my high level characters except for one that it fit while I was waiting for Shadow Maul to recharge.
But if it'd been something like "click this and your next attack does +x damage (rather than an added percentage)", it wouldn't break concept and would be more useful at low levels and become less useful as you leveled as Sands of Mu seemed to be designed to be.
There are just better ways to give those kinds of things. While I love Sands of Mu due to nostalgia, it was kind of a boner.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Percentage powers tend to be a bad thing in game design because they do scale too well and leave no room for improvement further down the line. City of Heroes had a lot of that and had to apply various crude methods to diminish the problem of reaching hard caps too easily (like enhancement diversification and the purple triangles). Towards the high end of the game some of those maxed out powers amount to something close like an 'I win' unless the enemy was specfically designed against that type of power. Slow was often considered a bit of a joke power, untill you stacked it to its cap, then you could pretty much walk through anything without fear. Stacking -hit had a similar effect. It went from 'what's the use of this' to 'whee, my defender can tank' in the blink of an eye if you stacked it enough.
On top of that, reward powers should be temporary under just about any circumstances. That justifies them being powerful enough to make a real difference, and makes the players careful about when to apply that trump card. If such powers are awareded account wide, then the amount must be severely restricted for those characters who did not actually earn the reward themselves.
Of course that also opens up offering the opporturnity to top up the use of that power through missions, crafting and/or cash shop transactions (yes, that amounts to a pay to win option of small magnitude so that is probably going to get nixed with good justification, but it would be something that might entice the players to use that store. And of course it also requires that any character first complete the mission. They can buy charges or time for it, not the power itself. Still, probably too divisive an idea to implement).
These are both good ideas that can be used together.
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Even when I outgrew my Veteran version of Sands of Mu, I still kept Blackwand and/or the Nemesis Staff in my tray, because sometimes a ranged power is sooo helpful for a Tanker... Or anybody, really.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Didn't care for the nemesis staff. We called it the lolipop of doom. If you ever saw me use use it you knew I was bored and probably about to log off. It's cool down was so long it was absolutely worthless. I would have prefered something faster even if it caused significantly less damage.
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I basically agree with the OP. I feel like any veteran rewards ought not be thing that are so character-theme defining/breaking as signature attacks of badguys. I mean, it cheapens/ruins my "Birdman" toon's whole theme if I end up having to use a Nemesis Staff as a melee attack, doesn't it? I would like the veteran rewards, if they're going to be powers, be powers that are not extracted from the arsenal of the signature badguys of the game but rather something more generic an/or mutable by the users. If I could have gotten some kind of Sands of Mu-esque attack but made it more my own I would have liked it more. Anything that doesn't already have some other hero or badguy's logo on it would be nice. Even if it were just something with a Vanguard or Longbow affiliation that would be an improvement, because maybe I got that from a contact in that organization, or its on loan, or something.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I remember Sands of Mu. If that was your Scrappers best attack, you were doing something wrong :p
And really wasn't it more of a filler until you got better/more attacks? CoT could just have it so the attacks we unlock unlock in a way that has people feeling like they're attacking more, than CoH did.
I always thought of the Nemesis Staff as being the "Key to the City" ...
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For my Dark Melee Scrapper who I was trying to play like a super speedster it was his best attack
I picked dark melee because of Shadow Maul
I also used flurry from the super speed pool
and those 3 attacks were pretty much all he used
because I was trying to build a character type the game didn't really have.
It was always a good attack because it was both an attack and a defense
The bad guy you were hitting couldn't do anything to you while you were hitting him
I did a lot of what I called "hunting purple monsters".
I'd look around on the street for a guy who conned purple to me standing alone out in the open
In a lot of zones they weren't hard to find.
Then I'd jump him.
In one on one fighting like that sands of mu was devastating.
Eventually with some enhancements Shadow maul, and flurry got better
but it took a long long time
Other Scrappers and Tanks who found Sands of Mu to be their best attack were just low level.
But even when it was no longer your best attack, it was still pretty darn good.
By the way, I always prefered mutant characters because the mutagen attack would make the opponents cough and interrupt their action which was a need trick at any level, and it wasn't as tacky as the tasers
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Sands of Mu was a great attack early on in your character's progression. Later it was more of a filler attack than anything else. Why? Enhancements and IO's. You couldn't enhance Sands of Mu. You could all your other attacks. So Sands of Mu had a base ToHit, a base Accuracy, and a base amount of Damage it could do. In the end game of CoH I referred to Sands of Mu as, "Sands of Whiff!". It also locked my character into an animation that was horribly long. Frustratingly so. It also was frustrating for weapon characters, as it would put your weapon away and you would have to keep re-drawing your weapon. Was Sands of Mu good? Sure. Was it exceedingly good or broken? NOPE. I am not opposed to passing out a Sands of Mu type power to Veteran Players that have earned it.
The Black Wand and the Nemesis Staff had their uses as well. Nemesis Staff could knock back a baddie that was being particularly annoying. The Black Wand could be used to do the dreaded "Pull" technique from time to time. Also, much like the Sands of Mu, the Black Wand had a -ToHit debuff attached to it as well. Finally depending on the Origin of your character all those Vet powers could have bonus damage tied to them. None of the Vet powers were buffable, again making them not very good for the later game when buffs made a team nuts.
I got chills! They're multiplyin'. And I'm losin' control. Cuz the power, I'm supplyin'. Why it's ELECTRIFYIN'!!
The Staff also did Energy Damage, which could potentially be necessary as an alternative means of igniting an Oil Slick.
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I didn't even know you could ignite an oil slick.
But I have to ask:
Yes you like the accolades that were in COX, but does that mean you're against the idea in the OP?
Wouldn't it be better if you could get class or power set appropriate accolades that wouldn't clash with your character concept?
And doesn't something like the nemesis staff kind of get silly when lots of people have them?
Sure Batman would use the nemesis staff, if he needed it, in a specific story, but we'd all expect it to disappear after that story, because it would totally change the character, if Batman made the nemesis staff part of his standard equipment.
So wouldn't it be better if that sort of thing only showed up with temporary powers?
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If by temporary you mean "only in that mission/storyline, or deliberate sequels", then I'll agree. If you want to add it to your character concept, you should choose a suitable power next time you get one or change the animation of an existing power. Maybe use a retcon on it. Adding an additional power introduces balance issues.
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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I rather it was a Training (Temp) power that you Graduate from after you get a few of your own (boot camp). Like in the Outbreak starting zone, a Police (or other) contact gives it to you after you complete a number of tasks. And s/he informs you that its a Training (Temporary) power and it will expire once you reach a certain level. Maybe level 10? When you Graduate from his/her Boot Camp. that contact that gave you that power Calls YOU, a dialog pops up.. and informs you you Graduated and steals the Loaner power away. ;D
I used the vet powers to fill in gaps in my attack gain in the low levels of the game, although that was more because of the "slowness" of the lower levels in terms of combat, it was felt that it was needed, especially when you might only be doing one attack every few seconds due to low recharge/fewer abilities.Once I had 3 or 4 "normal" attacks, then it tended to fall out of rotation in CoX.
And a personal opinion of mine here is that when you have fewer abilities, the fact that you CAN do something during the downtime between "special" attacks is something that most players like[1]. However, City of Heroes didn't have this. Yes you could click brawl... but you could still end up with a second or two between attacks, and that can feel a long time unless you are clicking other abilities in between.
Hell, I feel it in Wildstar, where my "spam" attack has an attack animation of 1 second, and I use "hold to continue casting". But then again, that also means that I can focus on where I am (not in the red hopefully) and my surrounding players, making sure I am in the best place for the rest of my team.
So this is why some games have spamable attacks when there is no "auto attack option". Something that means that during combat you are still "attacking". Ironically, having a damage aura in CoX combated this feeling for me as well.
[1] Not necessarily of this game, but in general.
I used the temp powers on a few alts, but not many. Not after the first few levels at any rate. Early on they were useful for an occasional burst of damage when the 1 or 2 powers you had available weren't up to keeping you on your feet against a group that was tougher than expected. But as they couldn't be enhanced, they fell behind over time.
The three characters I had who used them regularly all had reasons for it. One was a dark melee scrapper who used Sands of Mu because the power fit in nicely with his theme. Another had the Nemesis staff because I'd come up with a story arc for her where her devices (her powers all came from her equipment, ala Iron Man or Quasar ) had been stolen so she took a Nemesis staff from the SG trophy room to use to go after the thieves. And the final one was a mage who used the Blackwand because it had been given to her by her father (also a mage) as a memento from his own adventurous youth.
For CoT, veteran-style rewards (aka, not temporary powers) should be such that they can fit into a wider range of character concepts. Something like a brief buff to damage or accuracy, similar to Build up or Aim. Something that's useful at the lower levels and less so once you have a wider range of abilities to select from.
I've noticed several people have commented that they suffered from dead time when all of their abilities were cooling down,
and that was when they were most likely to use these attacks
This was a problem for me too,
Maybe brawl should have a much quicker cool down
It's not a real effective attack so it wouldn't be unbalancing
and we'd stop using when we had enough good attacks
but everyone has it and it would pick up the pace of fighting at the low levels
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I certainly wouldn't mind the Brawl-equivalent being an 'instant' cool down power. Have it do less damage (and cost less end) than the version that takes a second to recharge so that the overall DPS/END usage is the same and it would make for a more active feel for the same end result.
I got by just fine with using Brawl, Origin Power and Starting attacks, and then just getting attacks through the levels. The other attacks (even the Origin Power) was never needed, people where just impatient. Waiting for those powers to recharge didn't take that much time.
Though, with CoT, I hope they have a starter power that has a few options in terms of style and a way to always be relevant to use!
It was enough time to bother us
and when you say people are impatient that's just a way of transferring blame from the game to the players.
The truth is if the players don't like it, the game needs to be fixed
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I was able to get by just fine with just Brawl and the initial power choices (before the Origin powers were added), but that didn't mean it wasn't more enjoyable when I had more options.
Paladin, one thing you do quite often is presume to speak for everyone and then self-proclaim the final truth of the matter.
"Us?" Which "us?" Personally, it didn't bother me. Was this "us" the actual majority or the vocal minority. Or just you and those you played with?
And the truth you proclaim, that if "the players" don't like it--what players? Which players? Just any players? ALL players--sure who could argue with that? But did all players dislike it? Did the majority? How would you know?
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Empyrean, you were the first person on this thread to mention the wait
Gangrel mentioned it next
Then Mendicant
All before Me
And as has been mentioned before, If I feel that way it's not unreasonable to assume there are others who feel the same way
After all I'm not an alien
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Are you sure? I don't think I did. I mentioned that I used it cause it was there, but not that I had a problem with the wait. I think you put some words in my mouth there, buddy :P.
True, but you used "us" and "players" interchangeably in the post when, from what you just said, what you really meant was "me" and "I assume others"--which is a quite bit different. Go back and replace "us" for "me" and "players" for "I assume others" in that post and see what you get.
Again, are you sure? I think you may actually be--a BEARD!!! And a beard with golden nuchucks. That's bananas.
And I applaud you for being a good sport. Seriously. I enjoy agreeing and disagreeing with you.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
I haven't even had a beard in 9 years
I don't know what it means when someone says Hale Beard
Although I did think Spock looked better in the mirror universe
And I did agree with Cornelius when he said Taylor looked less intelligent without his beard
(Extra points to you, if you know what I'm referencing here)
Is it possible to be a beard and not know it?
I once had a friend who told me about an organization called the society of bearded gentlemen and they were out to take over the world
It was a plot from a Doom Patrol comic book but the society is real so...
Am I part of some alien plot to take over the world??!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had no Idea
Oh, and you were the first to mention it.
you said " I didn't use it on any of my high level characters except for one that it fit while I was WAITING for Shadow Maul to recharge."
OK you weren't complaining
but I didn't say you were
I just said you were the first to mention it
Ctrl F is my friend.
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Ok, you got me, I did use the word "waiting." And I don't know if Beard host's actually know that they're Beard hosts. One with greater knowledge of Beard lore will have to answer that.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
Would I prefer Vet Rewards/Powers to be more generic instead of Faction/Origin based?
I'd like the option to chose a visual style sure.
So at 12 months you get a Melee Cone Attack or Ranged ST Attack. For whichever one I chose there are different styles so If Im going for a Robot character I don't have to chose a green twig wand or fists of flame but could chose a style that is Rail Gun/Gyro-Jet Rifle or an electrical/energy discharge attack instead.
On the other side of the coin if by defeating 500 of %specific enemy type% I can unlock a Reward Skin of their weapons then that would also be cool - "Yeah I defeated so many of you suckers I stole one of your %weapons% and am using it against you"
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
Yeah that was really the only problem I had with the vet attack powers in CoH - their basic lack of choice in terms of style/appearance.
We needed powers like the Nem Staff and Sands of Mu as "filler" powers and in that capacity they served their purpose well enough. I had no problem with their stats or combat mechanics. But depending on which characters I was playing the idea of wielding a big golden "lollipop of doom" (as TheMightyPaladin calls it) or flailing with a bunch of fist punches was completely inappropriate and/or stupid-looking.
Assuming CoT is going to carry on the idea of "generic filler powers" what we really need is to be able to choose from a pool of effectively equivalent powers. When it comes time to get the "low power melee attack" we would have a choice whether we wanted that power to look like a punch, a small baton, a hand-held Taser device, a short-ranged magic missile or so on. All of these related powers would work the same numbers-wise but just look completely different to better fit the various character concepts. The same could be done for the Nem Staff class of ranged filler powers and so on.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Sands of MU was originally a Temporary reward from a specific mission.
It times out after a while
Later part of the veteran rewards made it a permanent power....this was due to players wanting to have it, there where multiple veteran reward attacks like this....including two differing ones that gave you a bonus to damage depending if you had technology or not.
I don't think a reward gained from service time should be changed to be temporary......the actual original was temporary and in fact you could have both the veteran power and the reward at the same time.
The veteran power actually was weaker then the reward power from the mission....because the reward power scaled to your level....while the veteran power went up to a specific point but stopped, thus if you had used both you would notice you did about 200 damage at your highest level with the veteran power but with the reward power you could get 1000s. Also that reward power form the mission lasted 24 hours only.
I think that would demean and make rewards for time spent playing kind of become meaningless if the rewards where short lived, those rewards we got where for 36 months of time...everything was incremented as 3 months....until close to the end of the game in which case it became based on cash spent due to too many people whining they didn't want to have to wait to get the rewards and should be able to get them right off.
The only thing I always requested and never got was the rune words of power as a permanent power....the fact was I didn't care if I had the power per say....I just wanted to have that casting ability.
By the way another reason the sands of mu where made permanent is that people went to great lengths to save that mission then to do it to get that power....and when the missions where repeatable....people would repeat that mission to get that power a lot...to a point.....players would bring along low level characters to reward them with that power.
So in essence the reward was a way to quell the typical exploiters...who would do things like this for others for real world money.
Mew? =o_o=
As someone who played CoH for 8 years I can just say "It didn't bother me" and since it didn't bother me, it had to not have bothered others (that's your logic).
In fact, I loved it more when I got IOs and my goal was to streamline into an attack chain for the best DPS I could get!
I'm certain there were others who weren't bothered. The logic is impeccable
but I seriously doubt that solving the problem, for those who were bothered, would upset most of them
Can't figure out why it seems to upset you
Does it really?
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I wonder now if having a "choose one or two of the following" set of generic powers that had little to no cooldown but only added a miniscule amount to one of hp, mp, attack power on your next attack, defense against the next attack, would be beneficial. Something players can strategically spam for small boosts or recoveries while waiting for their other powers to cool down.
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
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As long as if at every point when we earn a certain benefit/power like CoH's origin powers or vet powers we get a "choose one from the following pool" scenario it'll be great.
Again I think the main problem CoH had in these situations was forcing everyone to use a specific single hardwired power regardless if that power fit with the character's concept or not. There was nothing specifically wrong with Sands of Mu, especially if you were a tough Wolverine scrapper type character. But try making that power make any sense on a strictly tech-based waifish teenaged girl who Hovered all the time to avoid melee ranged combat at absolutely all costs. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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So I am only noticing one thing missing from this thread... The Ghost Slaying Axe!
Sure it was no high-damage-cone-aoe-debuff power, but come on... it works at high levels when there are ANNOYING GHOSTS! :-D personally, I liked knocking out the ghost champion... so full of himself. It wasn't so useful at lower levels, but you never grow out of a free ghost kill!
Again there was nothing specifically wrong with the Ghost Slaying Axe as a single, unique power. I'm just saying (for example's sake) that a technological genius who uses electricity and anti-gravity to fight crime via primarily ranged combat is not likely going to know anything about how to use a magical medieval battle axe to fight ghosts. You can keep your axe as long as CoT offers alternatives that accomplish roughly the same thing via other means that are more character concept friendly.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
if only the Ghost Slaying Age had a Very High chance to do KnockDown on any foe, I might have gotten it allot more. :<
We have largely addressed the issue of early levels of combat has gaps in activity due to cool down. We are definitely not going the route of spam this attack for this buff later thing. Some sets might utilize such an effect if it fits the set's theme, but not in a general every character has this base power that needs to be spammed for benefit. I do think you will like the approach we are using as it takes care of the concerns of early gaps and thematic use.
As for vet rewards and giving out temperament (the term I use to describe them as it sounds like the perfect mesh of temporary and permanent and how they could upset people because they didn't always fit with their theme) I have a couple of thoughts.
First is looking at temporary powers: powers given for a set amount of time or uses as either part of the context within the story played through, a crafted item with set uses that can be bought, traded, sold, or recharged, or a temporary effect which is the result of an encounter that can last outside the scope of the story for an amount of time or uses.
The problem some have brought up with vet versions is the forced aesthetics, the creation of a divide between haves and have nots, and the in-game benefits afforded to the haves over have nots.
Now part of the point of a vet reward system is the divide, it should act as an incentive for newer players to want to stay with the game longer to earn those goodies. It is also (and far more importantly) a thank you to players for their loyalty to the game.
So for me, giving out temperament powers isn't a negative. At the very least we can address the concern over forced aesthetics. After all what the power looks like is just part of its theme. The lollipop of doom if given out as a vet reward would probably be a skin not a power.
Ideally (and this is just my personal opinion) I would like to have an extensive list of vet rewards that give away in-game items to also be awards purchasable from the cash shop - in essence "here is a coupon to redeem your free lollipop of doom skin" from our cash store. And of course items on the cash store that are also vet awards should be noted as such and when they become available.
If all this were done, people can wait out their time for the free reward or purchase it if they aren't a subscriber, or if they don't want to wait. I'm more loathe to say we should give away power effects itself / sell single powers in the cash shop for fear over concerns of creating pay to win scenarios. This doesn't count toward selling whole power sets which I'm in favor of as the sets themselves would be in line with the bounds of expected performance and are not purchases of a power that is in addition to powers that exist on a character like the sands of mu type powers. This is also why the vet versions were very toned down to severely minimize the impact in play. Again it's all my personal opinion as I'm not involved with the business team.
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I always loved sands of Mu on my controllers. Especially if you had a defense debuff or a to-hit buff. I was using it on my earth/rad controller even at 50. The black wand was useful on my melee characters for pulling as well, it didn't even need to hit for it to accomplish this. Even with a good complement of powers, if being slowed having an extra attack to fill in was nice. On top of these situations, having access to damage different from your primary/secondary could be useful.
I never felt it broke the theme of my character, as regardless of your origin you somehow came across these items of power and could use them in battle.
-----------------------------------------
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The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
Not upset. I just said I never saw a problem with the way CoH had powers, never understood how people really couldn't handle that and then are okay with games with GCDs so you can't use any attack for over a second. :p
Why does it bother you when someone disagrees with you?
Well, I had some thoughts on this but Tannim has just addressed them all to my complete satisfaction. (Especially the non-spam-except-for-theme philosophy.) (Also love "temperament".)
The only thing I have to add -- and I understand I might be in the minority here -- is that I actually LIKED the fact that we had gaps at lower levels, because the fact that these gaps decreased over time with the acquisition of new abilities was a tangible part of that feeling of the character's growing power.
Spurn all ye kindle.
There are numerous reasons, but in a forum like this I think the problem is magnified because, I often fear that someone taking a contrary position might prevent the devs from implementing my suggestions. I don't know that they would anyway but when someone argues against my proposals, I feel a need to defend them if I want to have any hope.
I should also add that on certain subjects (like pulling, levels and sidekicks) I have very strong feeling about the subject and when people disagree, the fear of my idea not being used or being used in a way that defeats the whole purpose kind of hurts.
I really believe that if we're honest, we'd all have to admit that it bothers us when someone disagrees. Unless we just don't care. And if we didn't care, why would we even be here?
See here, now Cinder is just the bane of me.
Just joking, I've liked some of cinder's comments...
ON OTHER THREADS !!!!
love you Cinder
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Again for what it's worth I never thought powers like Sands of Mu or the Blackwand were not useful regardless of character concepts. I fired them off once in a while even on characters that didn't want/need to normally use them just because the situation made sense at the time. And as far as the idea of gaining these various "items of power and making use of them in battle" goes I usually didn't have any problem thematically with the idea of (for instance) a magic-based character using a temporary machine gun power or whatever.
The main hang-up I had with the vet powers in particular was the idea that they were PERMANENT powers that sometimes were completely antithetical to my character concepts. It's one thing to use a random weird temp power on the spot when the situation calls for it but it's another thing for a character to have no choice about the aesthetics of a permanent power that doesn't otherwise fit. Imagine what it would be like if Captain America was given a magic wand to use: sure he might use it once or twice if needed, but it would likely be weird to see him constantly use it all the time as a new permanent weapon.
All I'm saying is that it would be cool if we had the option to "re-skin" certain powers as Tannim222 mentioned so that we could still gain the unique benefits of permanent power X, Y or Z but have it cosmetically LOOK like we want it to look at the same time.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
No one's saying you shouldn't defend your positions or that you shouldn't show evidence for why your suggestions/opinions might be good for the game. The point is that people who have "contrary positions" to yours usually feel strongly about their OWN points of view and have vested interests in wanting THEIR ideas heard so that the Devs will consider implementing THEIR suggestions instead. Ultimately their ideas are just as valid as yours.
People don't disagree with you on the forums specifically to make sure your precious ideas don't happen like it's some kind of personal witchhunt against you in particular. They disagree with you (and likely everyone else) mainly to support THEIR own ideas in favor of everyone else's. They are not personal attacks uniquely against you so stop taking them quite so personally.
Basically if your ideas are worthy of consideration they'll be able to withstand the "constructive criticism" of your fellow forums goers. Think of it this way: If you can't adequately defend your suggestions against the minor jabs of random posters why should the Devs themselves consider them good enough for the game?
When someone disagrees with me here I don't usually get "upset/bothered" about it as much as I try to understand where the other person is coming from to see if they have a valid point against my position or not. If they do then I'll either rethink my arguments and/or consider some kind of compromise that'll ultimately IMPROVE my own original ideas. As I implied earlier if I can't rationally defend myself against my fellow forum-goers then why would I expect the Devs to consider anything I say? That's why I'm here at any rate.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
+1
+1
That is so very well said
Oh and then there are the unprovoked attacks like I always get from Lothic and Red
Thanks for reminding me
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
Apparently my post to you suggesting that you shouldn't take every post to you as a personal attack was taken as a personal attack. Is this some new version of a Catch-22 I wasn't aware of?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
[img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/48/ae/98/48ae9832d4979cb30c7dc974927dd288.jpg[/img] ;)
After you take away the stuff the devs would like to do but determine is not possible in the programming, then take away the stuff they know might be doable but won't have time/money to actually devote to it, then take away stuff they feel is game-breakingly imbalanced or not in keeping with the Kickstarter or not fair to everyone or not fun, what you're left with will be like 1% of everything that ever got suggested in these forums.
So what I'm saying is, the likelihood that one (non-dev) person's objection to another person's idea might be the deal-breaker that causes that idea not to get picked up by the devs is so remote that I wouldn't worry about it. The devs don't even agree with each other on a lot of these issues right now, do you think they have time and money to consider whether or not to Lothic or Radiac's views might be a reason to do or not do something? I don't. The important thing is that the ideas themselves get talked about and poked and prodded from as many angles as possible so that we end up with a really good discussion about things and form a good knowledge base to draw from as we progress.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
I know the Devs don't listen to TheMightyPaladin or Radiac but gods help us if the Devs actually listened to me... lol
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
*hastilly hides the glass he had pressed against the wall while Radiac, TheMightyPaladin, and Lothic were talking*
[color=#ff0000]Business Manager[/color]
[img]http://missingworldsmedia.com/images/favicon.ico[/img]
I just wanted to reassure everyone that neither I nor Lothic nor anyone else I could name, whether they contributed to the Kickstarter or not, has veto power over any ideas that get discussed here. MAYBE Dr. Tyche? I'm not even sure about that.
And if you want to commiserate over having your ideas hated on by the rest of the forums, go read anything I wrote in 2014 about monetization, influence sinks, punishment for getting defeated, repeating missions umpteen times without ever finishing them, etc. I'm pretty sure I personally am the single biggest source of MONUMENTALLY unpopular ideas on these forums, short of people who are outright trolling, which I assure you I am not.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
we still LOOOOVE U! ;D
Just dont call us potty mouths. :<
+1
One of the things that makes me excited about this game is the range of ideas for game experience. The devs seem open to exploration of all of them. I want a game experience where I can be happy but where as many others can be happy as well.
That is what will make this game thrive.
With all that, I don't dread your posts, Radiac. Over all I like arguing against you on pretty much all those threads. Because despite our disagreements, I know we both want this game to be a great success.
But Paladin, I [b]am[/b] starting to dread your posts. I can tell you, it is not because of your ideas or positions. Several times in this thread you have lashed back at people giving you some honest criticism on how you communicate on these forums. You have taken it as a personal attack, and they were trying to [i]help[/i] you. It says a great deal about the community here that you don't simply get told to "stop posting".
I honestly don't want you to stop posting. I think your hard core soloist perspective is a good one to have on this forum where many of us (myself included) are all about teaming. I think it's also important to recognize the fact your poor experience with teaming, aberration or not, happened. Post close I found many things that I took for granted on the Infinity server were quite different from the norm on the other high-pop servers. Our bad experiences are just as important as our good ones for the devs to know.
I will give you two pieces of advice. First before hitting the save button, read your post out loud to yourself. You would be surprised how much that can reveal about what you just wrote. And secondly if you feel upset about a reply from another poster, do not jump right in to reply. walk away, calm down, then write your reply back, if it even needs one.
-----------------------------------------
I never set anything on fire accidentally!
The Titan Legacy - Defender of the Inner Flame
For what it's worth, I usually read my posts to myself before hitting the Save button. If nothing else it catches like 90% of my horrible typoes (seriously, the crappy typing you generally get from me is AFTER I've tried to fix it, usually. You're seeing the 10% that got through the spelling filter and my rereads, scary as that souinds...). It also catches me in places where I get redundant, which I do a lot.
R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising
Syntax, paladin just listened to you I think. He deleted a post which in my opinion showed little perception.
Lore devs, if there is a longbow-like group, I propose basing portions of their logic and dialogue on themightypaladin.
+1 ;)
Heck, maybe call one of their LT Paladin
It showed no perception at all
because I can't perceive what you guys are talking about.
Up until now I honestly thought the only problem I was having was not being able to get along with Lothic and Redlyne
I had no idea anyone else was bothered by anything I'd said
I promise that I've never said anything to any of you that would have offended me if it had been said to me.
I don't know what I've said to make you all so mad at me
I'm very sad and confused.
You say you're trying to help but the complaints are to vague to be of any help
I honestly don't understand
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/3185/Crusader-Game-Books
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC48O9dPcNVdeyNM4efAvX6w/videos?view_as=subscriber
we Luvvvv u too Pladin. ;)
We just noticed how you Approach stuff.. might be fun to see ingame as a NPC Hero that's headstrong but a Good Guy, but gets into trouble with allies when things go sour. ;) Thats what he was referring to. ;)
This may be a bad idea, but Imma try to step in here a sec.
Paladin, you and I have gone round and round before and I think we always ended up on good terms, so I'm going to try to clarify somethings here in a way that I hope helps.
You have very strong ideas about things, and you are very passionate about those ideas, but I think you'll agree that the way you played CoH was unusual and different from how the vast majority of people played. So... people are often not going to agree with you.
But that's fine because you bring a lot of different ideas and fresh perspectives to these forums, and a few of them have even gotten good support. And more than one person has gone out of their way to say that we want you here and we're glad you're here.
I think the problems come about--and I've said this to you before--because you have very strong opinions and you often state them in a way that sounds like you are stating unequivocal universal truths. And then when people argue with you because your ideas are unusual and unequivocally stated, you feel attacked. This sometimes leads to kerfuffles like this one.
It'd probably be best if we all just step away from this particular kerfuffle and let it all go at this point :).
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)
The only trouble you had with me was that I was the first to notice and call the issue to your attention. I knew I wasn't going to be the only one to notice, but I honestly didn't expect others to (publicly) agree with me, even if they might have done so privately.
I did my best to give you advice on how to address the issue of your tone in your posting. My advice was not well received. {*polite cough*}
And for the record, I was never "mad" at you, nor do I think others here are either. I was however ... disappointed ... in the subjective, judgemental and unusually absolute statements that you kept making. After being rebuffed multiple times, I decided that discretion was the better part of valor, rather than contribute to continued acrimony.
Why? Because I'd rather be friends with the people here, than treat them as enemies (or fools, or knaves, or whatever), let alone think of them in such terms. City of Heroes had a great [b]Team Spirit[/b] in its community, and I would want to see the same spirit continued here. After all, we've only got each other.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I didn't mind the Sands of Mu, Ghost Axe, etc. - especially in those lower levels. My biggest beef with them was that I couldn't change their appearance to match my character.