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nope wasn't implying he/she was one of those sorts.
Well his replies have gotten antagonizing but may of the replies to him was also antagonizing. It works both ways, two way street. Just because one view is popular or more people agree with it doesn't make it less antagonizing. And this particular thread isn't the first time I observed that when someone suggest something that is a bit different, people reply in an antagonizing manner but when the target replies in kind, "Oh now it's because they are having an antagonizing tone" when usually they reply with antagonizing tone because that is how people replied to them and that excuse is being used to discredit the idea while ignoring the antagonizing replies that was in favor of the popular view.
Wanna know why CoX fell short of WoW?
Just look at Blizzard's notoriety vs Cryptic's at the launch of WoW.
Blizzard had 7 PC games to its name (IIRC), all of them had been critically acclaimed. Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Diablo, Diablo 2 and its expansions, and Warcraft 3 and its expansions. Cryptic had One. ONE. City of Heroes. Right off the bat, they won with already having an existing fanbase.
Second, WoW actually used to be ahead of the times in graphical appearance and storytelling. Not to mention the idea of Faction vs Faction wasn't common at all in games at the time.
So, for a time WoW was better than CoX. In fact, IMO CoX wasn't actually worth playing until City of Villains came along. I'm sorry, it's true. I have never liked being limited to being a single side in MMOs (GW2 aside..). I actually ENJOY player made conflicts and when we got the Villain side, baby I was all for it.. Besides, in the words of Eddie Brock from Spiderman 3, "I like being bad." I rarely if ever enjoy being a hero.. it just never fit well with me. (Even my "Good" aligned people in DnD aren't exactly good)
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
I already did a few hours ago. http://cityoftitans.com/forum/pseudo-action-combat-system-ideas
With a new idea that could make tab targeting more interesting.
CO isn't really twitchy. Most people ignore the block.
WoW isn't really twitchy either.
Scarlet Blade wasn't twitchy. In fact, outside a lack of customization options, I found it to remind me of CoH a lot.
Maybe it is what we want >_> And I played and love CoH.
What you're failing to see, is spiritual successor can mean anything. In fact, when CoH closed down, I didn't even know about The Phoenix Project, what I did know about was Heros & Villains, and when I heard the goal of H&V was "copy CoH with a graphic update" I left, because while CoH did die early and yes, I think it would've battled back, it could've used some things to make it much much more!
Yes, CoT can likely succeed with CoH's ending player base. I'd like to see CoT get and maintain TOR's starting playerbase. :p
They closed down coh because it wasn't making them enough to justify running it, near it's end the game was pretty sparse on players on most servers, and YES I did play it, quite a lot in fact, I even beta tested the damn thing. He doesn't 100% agree with us, that must me he didn't play it.
Give me a break....
You're missing my point, what you want, isn't necessarily what will make the game successful, case in point, coh peeked at 2005 with it's player population, and only lost players since then.
I want to improve the game too, why the hell would I even bother taking interest in the game and making suggestions if that wasn't also my interest???
If you really wanted to agree to disagree, then why tell me the door is over there?
That's not agreeing to disagree, that's telling me to agree with you all, or leave.....
>_>
Herding behaviors emerge from a confluence of AI Programming and Control Effects (such as Taunt and Range Debuffing) that influences the decision processes of that AI Programming. So long as the UI allows the Control Effects to be applied and have the AI "respond" appropriately, moving to a hybrid model UI akin to what Tabula Rasa used would in a great many ways have little effect on the *ability* to Herd (as in, it could still be done). Actually accomplishing it would perhaps be a little more challenging, since the Player would need to exert greater control of HOW they accomplish the Herding ... but that would result in a more immersive and engaging game to play, where what happens is more reliant on Active Player Decisions And Actions (ie. how you control and "drive" your character in game) rather than using a keybind that uses TargetEnemyName$$TargetEnemyName$$TargetEnemyName to "do the work for you" in selecting the highest priority targets to engage in a variety of circumstances (like my Kheldians used for Voids, Quantums and Sappers in City of Heroes which I then proliferated to all of my alts).
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
I agree and I sincerely apologize for that comment. I hear that sleep is good for you. I should try it some day...
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
I have sincerely apologized for my comment. I let my temper get the best of me and I'm sorry.
Part of the issue is that your definition of 'improvement' isn't matched by everyone else. I don't hear about anyone talking about touching up a work of art because they think a 'new' look might be an improvement. As we keep saying, newer is not always better.
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
But in CoH's case, plenty of us have talked about touching up it's look to be better. ;)
Also a big difference between touching up a work of art to touching up a games mechanics. CoH was touched up quite a bit from the day it started to the day it shut down. I'm in the camp thinking if it started with more of what it had in the end, it wouldn't have ended.
IO Sets for instance I think would've kept more people around in the beginning, instead of loot that didn't matter, and nothing to really spend influence on.
I would blame a lot of that on a lack of advertising. There were only three times that CoH was "advertised" that I know of. Launch, CoV, and Free2Play. And none of those "advertising campaigns" were really all that good either. NCSoft failed itself in that regard. CoH lasted for 8 1/2 years with practically a zero advertising budget.
So true. I only heard of CoH because I saw the box at Wal-Mart.
Going Rogue as well had advertising as well,
*edit* I would like to mention that in the UK, CoX also had some good magazine coverage as well, if not via full page ads (for which WoW was about the only one that I can really remember), but also articles, and generally being mentioned in the "Games to play if you like X" stuff, or the "top MMO's we are playing" section... if it wasn't the top one, it was the 2nd or 3rd one listed (WoW was normally the top one).
SO I hope CoT have a good advertising budget. So far with the free stuff they been making it work well.
I'm still kind of curious of why didn't they advertise. In the beginning no budget for it, meh maybe. But after a while COX was making in the range of 9-15 million a quarter before sliding off down to merely 2.5 maybe a quarter. Out of that 9015 million they could have found money for advertising properly I think.
When WoW first hit, it wasn't everywhere, in fact they wasn't sure it was going to last long after a pretty disappointing debut. But they stuck with it, advertised their butts off, and it paid off. COX on the other hand, did well for no good ads but didn't reach full potential. Although for all I know that may have been the plan. COX was merely meant to be a game that they kept around for income until they didn't want it or need it anymore. Kind of like they kind of wanted it but It was low priority and test run for things with the income from the players fueling the development and putting some money into their pocket until it got too low for them to want to bother with it.
I think COX could have went a lot lot further with a little bit of advertising. Many people just so happen to stumble upon COX or through word of mouth, which to be fair should have been stronger (in hind sight though). Seeing how the community can spread word around with what they want to get out, the closing ,the new projects and etc. Man, they should have been doing that while COX was alive. But cant change back the time and hind sight is 20/20. I simply thought players didn't because they didn't have the ability or know how but after it closed, it was truly false assumption.
Now with this game, advertising, now is good and so far it's been good for building the hype. Even after the game is made, still should be some advertising. Yeah it may cost some and it may be risky, but so is kickstarter or any business. Remember even Blizzard didn't start off big. They made it that way for themselves by getting their name out there and delivering products that appeal to wide range of fun definition of players. While sad, and probably not saying people should go that extent. You had people that died playing WoW. Literally sitting there, until they croaked playing a game they loved. WoW is that immersive. Out the gate, it aimed to be great. It didn't aim to be merely niche or so so or gather 2500 people and be happy.
It aimed for those millions. One way to ensure that one never attain greatness is to never reach for it in the first place. That doesn't mean those that don't aim for greatness and aim for 2500 wont fall short and end up with 1500 instead compared to if they aimed for 2.5 million and worked for it and fall short they might have 250,000 people. Hoepfully CoT is truly aiming for greatness. Now that is how you stick it to the man truly. Take what they have, what they burnt down, from the ashes, and show a creation that went beyond what they made, beyond what anyone expected and become what they failed to do. Make super hero MMO COX, and CoT a household name. But aiming to be merely niche, ok, another niche game, there are thousands of those floating around, I think there is eve n a game for people that like to enjoy playing with poop. Do we really want to not aim for anything greater than in the same league with playing with poop games?
Sometimes to attain greatness, one must go outside their usual comfort zones and methods. Microsoft didn't get to where they are by doing what everyone else was doing at the time or even now, same for Apple, Walmart, Trump, Blizzard, EA, Sony. Halo didn't get big by being merely another FPS among the hordes of FPS, WoW didn't get big by doing MMORPG merely the same way everyone else was doing MMORPG, even COX even though it didn't attain widespread greatness, didn't achieve greatness status simply because it's a super hero mmo, and did everything like super hero games or mmos prior to it. Just reading the different things that people here said that made COX great are usually things that they couldn't find in other games. I don't think COX even reached the full potential of super hero mmo. That means it's shot that CoT have now. They could pass it on. But eventually someone will have the guts to take that shot and succeed and me personally don't want to be in the should could would of crowd when it happens. Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't mean the present is completely blind, unless one close their eyes and ears.
Blizzard to Cryptic is sort of Goliath to David. Blizzard had a player base already with a solid half-dozen games in the stable. They used the Warcraft label to get the WoW players in the gate. Cryptic had nothing to wave as their success except for CoH when it launched...they were building from nothing. I have little doubt that this was a major part of why one game went huge and the other had a small but loyal following. As for other reasons:
CoH was going pretty good until ED hit and castrated many characters. Players left in droves and most never came back. This bled Cryptic dry and reduced the Dev team to the famous 15 for some time. To be honest I'm surprised it didn't crash right then and there. But they struggled on, the game improved and then NCSoft bought it and formed Paragon Studios. This put a lot of money into the system and suddenly the game started growing by leaps and bounds by comparison.
But the party was already ending. Years of hacked-up code prevented new Devs from making improvements the game desperately needed. It also prevented them from fixing some major issues. In the end NCSoft blew the whole thing up just when they were hitting their stride again.
By the way, from what I've read the player base for CoH was pretty steady at 150k after the dust from ED settled. Even at full price per sub that's at MOST 6.75 mil a quarter...not 9-15. Still, you would have thought that they could have assigned SOMETHING for ads but as has been said before not all of the management decisions made by Cryptic and NCSoft were good ones.
Sometimes I dream of what CoH could have been with Blizzard's money, a few different design ideas and an advertising budget. It could have been glorious...
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
yup. But even Blizzard had to start somewhere with building up it's base way back in the Warcraft days.
Up to that point in Dec. 2005 population actually exceeded the 194,000 mark and around there there up to March 2006 at about 171,00 actve and again at June 2006 171,000 and then through sept 2006, then went back down to 154,000 in dec 2006 Then after that it started to drop a bit down to 143,000 about in march 2007, 139,000 in Sept. 2007, Dec 2008 139,000, march 2008 134,000, and hovered around those numbers until the end of the year where they stopped publishing the population numbers and more on the money.
But until free to play, numbers can be estimated by sales with 1 Q 2009 report sales for COH/COV being 6,837 mKwn, 5% of NCSOFT total sales.
By 1Q 2010- sales were 3,384 mKwn and only 3% of total sales.
But in 3Q 2010- sales rose to 5,709 mKWM making up 4% of total sales.
1Q 2011- sales were at 2% of total sales 3,022mKwn only with GW 1 having worse.
3Q 2011 (after freedom)-2,812 mKwn 2% of total sales.
4Q 2011- it made up of 3% of total sales, and 3,435 mKWn
2Q2012- 2,855 mKwn 2% of sales
3Q2012- report released Nov 72013, COH/COV is not specifically stated but what it made right before shutdown might have been part of the "other's" category
IIRC Free to play came in April or May 2011
Overall looks like COH was so so, it wasn't losing money but there was no growth in it's later years and they threw everything at that game in the way of personnel, updates, even free to play, and nothing really caught fire. (except curiously advertisement they didn't much of) and in many business growth is more important than merely a little bit of profits riding along. Like employee, they want everyone to make certain amount of sales per day. Most employees make it and exceed it, but this one employee, not a bad employee, have no growth, he been making 20 sales a day, way below average but steady, they gave him a new desk, new computer, sales manuals, even added nap time in there so he is awake and energized, but still 20 sales a day, Sure he is making more than what he is paid, but growth and sales goals. Liable to get fired after a while.
But you may be right after they stopped reporting the sub numbers it may as well been 150,000 players running around especially after free to play. But I personally hope not because then that means that half or less players were actually spending on average less than $15 a month in that game, a game they said they loved. Or rather players were actually spent less than when it was sub based after free to play came about. Which is also not good and less NCSOFT fault for that portion and means players should have spent more especially if there was 150,000 of them, it should have been making a lot more. But I did hear in COHTITAN that the population was around 80,000 when it closed but then again who knows for sure.
Freedom came out the *very* end of Q3 (so minimal increase in spending it looks like), Q4 of 2011 was the 1st full quarter of Freedom
Yeah typical business model...forget about the money being made and just look at the percentages. To be honest, the worst part about the closing, other than the face we all lost a great game, was the way they did it. Devs all showed up to work one day and got pink slips or so we heard. Then we got the announcement that we could play for another 60-90 days on a game that was closing. Thinking back I wish that I had spent more time exchanging contact information with others and trying to figure out how to carry on somewhere else but I was busy with school and work so I just let it go.
Personally I would never have just closed something making me money even if it was only 3% of profit. Money is money...
I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...
Happens a lot more often than many think. Some products get closed/discontinued even when they made up of more than that or was the company's only product but didn't meet sales expectations or sales levels compared to the competition.
Especially the pink slip thing in research, laboratory, and technology jobs. One day you come in, and if they are nice they do it in person, sometimes it's phone call, and many times it's email saying pack your things and get out. security will escort you out at 9:00 AM. Of course they still must give the two weeks pay at least in many states but that doesn't mean they must let a person sit at the desk which in many cases they don't. In many other games, they didn't give out 90 days free play with refunds dating back for some to July. It was simply "We are closing at end of month. Thanks for playing." and that is it.
But thinking back, 3% isn't a lot. Hell, look how the community treat it's own 3% people from time to time as if it's insignificant. Many people within in this community don't even treat the 3% of people opinions thoughts, and tastes with any sort of respect any more than NCSOFT treated it's 3%. I kind of expected it in a business world but realized especially afterwards, it's more of a human condition. 3% is just not a lot and hard to get paid attention to or respected as significant or equals.
Me personally I would have kept it unless it was absolutely space needed assuming it was meeting it's sale goals. Money is money, well, sometimes. In the investment world, there is a reason why many people don't bother with putting large amount of money in saving accounts anymore. 1% return is nothing. Many either dont bother or put that money in something more robust in return interest but may be higher risk. Many still do if they have spare money hanging about that they don't care about much or worried about returns. Many people don't pick up every penny off the street. That is another penny they didn't have. I see many people refuse to take the pennies as change in a store. It's money. Basically pennies sometimes nickels and in some cases even a dollar is not meeting the threshold for that person to worry about and try and keep. Same with business. It's money but if it's not making much and not much room expansion and it seems that it wont grow anytime soon, in a significant manner, then sometimes it may not e worth the bother just as it may not be worth the bother to pick up that penny laying on the ground in a crowded street even though it's money and money , free money, that one didn't have before.
yup at first. then it seemed to quickly go back to it's 2,800 area level by 2Q 2012. Not much growth overall which growth of some significant worth was expected soon after implementation of free to play.
Yeah I am the same.... People and comparing games to WoW, it seriously needs to stop. It doesn't matter what game it is that always seems to come up. People, this is a game with much more diversity and ideas than WoW can ever think of simply due to the fact that the players are the ones making up the ideas and concepts of their characters and story lines (AE in CoX) WoW was the first game I ever played on PC and I was hooked for the longest while but once I played CoX it just wasn't the same. CoX had the best community I had ever seen, CoX wasn't TOO limited on how I could create my character like WoW was, CoX wasn't an excessive gear grind like WoW AND I could still make my Warlock based off the idea of WoW's warlock.... but better. I loved my Mastermind. My warlock (Mastermind) in CoX could have 6 demons out at a time where as WoW I could only have one. CoX is VERY different than WoW and tbh CoX and now CoT will be the game to go to in my honest opinion.
Zekna, Black Mana Guardian. (sewer power leveler)
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