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Ranged Frameworks

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JayBezz
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Ranged Frameworks

One type of framework that I'd like to see is one that uses repelling powers; the ability to push/shove enemies to keep them at a distance.

When I think of a Sonic Powerset or a Force set or even a telekinetic they tend to revel in the ability to keep their distance from their attackers. In Champions Online it was all locked behind the "force power set" where you could only be physical damage. With CoT decoupling damage type from frameworks I want to go ahead and post how much I would love to see a Magneto/Polaris character who uses magnetic repelling powers, a Banshee/Siryn character who screams repelling powers.

I think this power set would include some defensive powers that repel projectiles too.

Because of it's nature and ability to keep a distance (and the implications of that against melee) I think this set would have more cooldowns and be based more on medium range powers than long range. Also as a conciliatory mechanics issue I think this set would likely have a steeper -movementspeed% on its powers the usual game standard.

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I also think a "sniper" framework is something I really want to see fleshed out. The ability to keep your distance beyond the usual threat threshold and taking a "free shot" is kind of awesome. Black Widow/Hawkeye are my two favorite Avengers and both of them know how to get a good kill-shot. But the question I'm still not sure on is.. what's on the other side. Not every power can be from sniper distance so.. how do you add this ability to a framework but keep it as an exclusive option?

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Bah, enough of what I want..
What play style do YOU like as a ranged DPS player?

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Winter
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Your first idea is one I am

Your first idea is one I am definitely behind. That's coming from someone who never minded knockback, but it is no secret that much of the player base (melee-centric players in particular) were not usually a fan of it. Unless I am mistaken, that is basically what you are talking about, and if that is the case, I actually think a framework incorporating such mechanics would benefit the most from a mix of long-range knockdown attacks and short-to-medium range knockback attacks. It allows for just as much fun while solo, but allows you to more easily keep enemies grouped, which will make for a much more team-friendly framework. But just to be clear: if the design team wants to say, "Yeah... let the melee characters complain" and load it up with repelling/knockback effects, I'll sign on all the same!

I actually think they could design a sniper framework around the same mechanics that were introduced to Stalkers not too long before the game closed. Every (or nearly every) power in the framework can be fired from sniper distance, however there is an interrupt time and they only receive "sniper caliber" damage when performed from out-of-combat (for this purpose, we'll define that to mean that a character has neither activated a power nor been attacked for 15 seconds). When the attacks are fired while in-combat, they do less damage and have no accuracy modifiers, but no interrupt time. The end result is a framework that is still functional as normal, but shines by opening with a potent attack on tougher enemies. Thoughts?

As for myself, I like a character that can constantly be shooting. While I have never played CO, the concept of having a power that you could constantly be shooting (their "Energy Builder" power I believe) was an enticing concept. Granted, I didn't like the idea of an Energy Builder. I just wanted to shoot, and I still do. With that in mind, I would love for a framework that perhaps the damage and eliminates the recharge time of the first one or two powers (i.e. the simple powers that logically wouldn't drain much endurance/energy), in exchange for allowing you to constantly be firing them off. It could be designed in such a way that the DPS is the same as a comparable character whose first power takes 3-4 seconds to recharge. The end result would be constant little bits of burst damage (almost the same as DoT effect), rather than one big chunk of burst damage. A fun gimmick to play around with would be a faster animation time as you level up, slowly increasing the damage output of the power.

Another way to go about this: Eliminate the recharge time, keep the damage the same as other characters with the regular recharge, but have your endurance drain a whole lot faster than normal. As a new hero, you can hit hard and fast, but you drain yourself very quickly. As you level up, you use less endurance per power (but still burn through it faster than most unless you compensate in some way). This could lead to some cool gunslinger concepts where the running out of energy portion is you reloading your gun, a process that gets faster as you become more skilled.

Just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks, but a hero constantly flinging, shooting, and/or throwing is an idea I like.


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islandtrevor72
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JayBezz wrote:
JayBezz wrote:

When I think of a Sonic Powerset or a Force set or even a telekinetic they tend to revel in the ability to keep their distance from their attackers. In Champions Online it was all locked behind the "force power set" where you could only be physical damage. With CoT decoupling damage type from frameworks I want to go ahead and post how much I would love to see a Magneto/Polaris character who uses magnetic repelling powers, a Banshee/Siryn character who screams repelling powers..

While I have no problem with a set of powers that focus on KB I would say it would by its very nature need to include physical damage..
I mean if you are hit with energy blast its not the energy that causes you to go flying its the force behind the energy. Sure it might do energy damage as well as KB but physical should be there too..

Izzy
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islandtrevor72 wrote:
islandtrevor72 wrote:

.. Sure it might do energy damage as well as KB but physical should be there too..

Plus, Minor Physical DMG if they hit a Wall, or the Floor, or the Ceiling. ;)

Novacat
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Tossing a few more ideas out

Tossing a few more ideas out here; I'm thinking blast frameworks should be primarily "HOW" one blasts. "What" a little sure, but mainly "what" would be from your secondary (ice, fire, poison, apples, lightning, goblins that do the aliens thing from inside the target's body, red shells, etc). HOW, on the other hand, refers more to the shapes and behaviors of the blast thingies themselves.

A few examples/ideas:
Direct Fire - The usual blasts. Press button, recieve bacon. No fancy gimmicks but you know what, some people WANT to keep it simple. "Fire Blast" is an example: no slows, no holds, no energy drain, just pure straightforward damage. You need not think beyond "This power does exactly what it says on the can whenever I damn well please".

Of course 'straightforward' isn't necessarily boring: it can include cannister shots, cluster bombings, hungry hungry hippos, three sniper drones that fire whenever you do for maximal dakka, some kind of bouncing sawblade grenades, or whatever we bloody want, right?

Accumulators - These blasts build up to or from something. For example a micromissile set might lock on to your primary target at a certain rate of hits, and more slowly on others nearby. When past a certain level you can fire your bigger badder missiles at the target, and maxed out you've got your nuke you can call down. It's not expended by firing such things, but switching targets leaves you with a much weaker lock (or none whatsoever if firing at something distant from the original) so you want to carefully retarget within small groups. It may not even have a "snipe" so much as a high level target designator that lets you open up from further right away with your biggest strikes.

Alternatively another set might start with full power, but is something enemies can quickly get used to - prompting you to switch targets regularly (or use some anti-boss refresher attack) to maintain full efficiency. Either way, amazing on the run, but needs to wind up or a prep-time for an alpha.

Channeled - A Channeled blast set is built to stand one's ground. You hold down a button until everybody's dead or you ran dry. Has 1-3 primary attacks, with everything else being either enhancers or riders. When you want to just be this big fat line or bullet-spray or whirlpool or whatever of death and maybe just sweep little damage ticks around the screen like mouselook had gone crazy. Lets you precisely dish out exactly what you need, though through controlling timing rather than finding the right package.

For example, let's call it (I have little imagination for names) Beam Blast. First ability is a narrow little beam, single target, and can probably be maintained for ridiculous lenghts at higher level. Not too strong, but not 'brawl' either. Second ability? a 3s timed cone mod you can activate while firing. Scatters the little beam into a nastier little cone. Later you get big angry cylinder of doom. It has a small area after all, but also a bit more damage and eats energy like crazy. It's your big attack. And you hit the 'cone' button and all of a sudden it's most of the room that's bathed in death.

But you're not sure that's good enough, so you click that other tracing button that lets you draw pretty patterns on the ground or wall with your beam using the mouse, and then there's horrible fire or energy or bullets or whatever coming out of that sufrace and burning the crap out of a nearby area for a few seconds behind where your beam is swinging around now.

Basically while some attacks would/will in fact have special effects to them, most of those should be special attack behaviors. Loading up the control/debuffs/mezzing/effects would come from one's secondaries: electrical manip would be how you get EMP missiles, Lightning Beams, Tazer Machineguns and giant voltaic fistf***s. Sometimes knockback or the like would come from the primary, but your radioactive man's secondary still adds a(n un)healthy dose of gamma to that beanbag.

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Regarding the sniper thing:

Regarding the sniper thing:

Perhaps the sniper set could be a set of extreme ranges, meaning that it has a few "sniper" abilities to thin the heard, but it's followup abilities are significantly shorter range than typical ranger stuff.

In parties, you'd still have the option to sit back and use your snipe abilities at medium range, or jump into the melee to save the day or blitz down the boss, while also offering the party solid pull utility.

On the downside, the set would be weak at mid-range, and to apply full DPS, you'd have to be closer range, and therefore significantly greater risk, than a typical ranger.

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Foradain
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Sand_Trout wrote:
Sand_Trout wrote:

Regarding the sniper thing:
Perhaps the sniper set could be a set of extreme ranges, meaning that it has a few "sniper" abilities to thin the heard, but it's followup abilities are significantly shorter range than typical ranger stuff.
In parties, you'd still have the option to sit back and use your snipe abilities at medium range, or jump into the melee to save the day or blitz down the boss, while also offering the party solid pull utility.
On the downside, the set would be weak at mid-range, and to apply full DPS, you'd have to be closer range, and therefore significantly greater risk, than a typical ranger.

+1.
Might need a bit of testing to balance, but it could be fun. ^_^

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