malonkey1 wrote:

How about a mission centered more on conversations than on combat? It'd give the roleplayers something neat to work with andmaybe help pull people into the lore who wouldn't otherwise care.
A foreign dignitary has been killed, and all signs point to one General Eiler, self-described patriot and known war hawk. However, all is not as it seems. Question witnesses and investigate suspects to uncover the truth, before a war begins!

Could be worth stealing a page from missions in The Secret World, where although there are the "kill quests", there are also the investigation missions as well.

And those investigation missions are a *far* stretch from the "click through the options". I remember having to research into morse code, using amazon to look up an ISBN number to solve a couple of puzzles (those are the ones that stick in my head so far).

umbralwarrior wrote:

Although I don't get on with TSW in terms of it's combat system, the story element is absolutely brilliant. They go into depth, they're accurate and you have to actually THINK about what you need to achieve and HOW you need to achieve it. Missions that require investigation would be brilliant but you also have to bear in mind that this is a super hero game so combating the evildoers is still the mainstay of the genre (though if you have a character with particular skills, I see no reason you couldn't use those to achieve your goal and avoid the fight).

I think that the "investigation" missions in CoT would well be an alternative path (maybe faster if you can do it), or for something more special...

Although superheroes *are* mainly combat orientated, that doesn't mean that it has to be the *only* way to do it.

Fireheart wrote:

I'd like to believe that 'investigation' and 'story' elements could be integrated into the game, almost as a meta-game embedded in the basic "Go, Hunt, Kill Skuls" of (super)heroic adventures. The concept of discovering, collecting, and combining 'clues' to unlock or create new content is very exciting. At the same time, I wouldn't want my enjoyment of the game, or character advancement, or story advancement to be 'locked' or 'gated' behind performing some sort of un-obvious thing. Because, frankly, while I like to solve puzzles, there are plenty of times when I'm simply not looking for more 'work' for my brain.
Consider Companion 'Affection' in SWTOR. 'Affection' is an attribute that affects the effectiveness of the player's NPC Companions in some parts of the game. It represents the relationship between the PC and their minions. It affects whether and when you can unlock the 'Romance' options between the PC and the NPCs. It's an extra 'game' embedded in the overall game of completing tasks and earning rewards.
In order to gain affection and not risk Losing affection-points, the player must include the Companion's likes and dislikes in their choices during conversations with mission-affecting NPCs. The player can choose to injure/kill certain NPCs, or to Help them, and thus shape the storyline. However, to maximize Companion Affection, one might be forced to choose a particular phrasing, attitude, or action that is contrary to the Player's feelings, in order to gain points in this meta-game.
This is an example of the Game forcing the player to play in a certain way, in order to satisfy some preconception. The player has to 'lie' in order to win the game, or some part of the game. They must kill a contact to get a badge, or maintain affection, regardless of their preferences in the matter.
That's a non-good thing. Mission Design in the City should avoid 'forcing' Player behavior.
Be Well!
Fireheart

Concerning the SWTOR stuff, whilst you could do it that way... I ended up with most of my companions being unplayed. I actually used gifts to enhance their affection, as it was (in my mind) the most efficient (and fastest way) to do it.

And in terms of the content, I think that whilst you *might* be able to at least do the "normal" stuff, I think that by doing the puzzles you should be able to unlock or be rewarded for "going above the call of duty".

And if you feel that might be unfair, then that would basically leave us with the "Go, Hunt. Kill Skuls" missions, which is fair enough, but it *doesn't* exactly leave you with a lot of mission variety that you can do.

RottenLuck wrote:

It really comes down to what do WE want to do. We could focus on Fighting the bad guys, or saving the day. (Or Fighting Good guys, causing Mayhem.)
What I mean is this. How about things where you find say a lost girl in the woods no lead to find said girl she just there and if you talk to her you find out she's lost and lead her out of the woods/park. A mission that triggered by random chance no fighting Villains or Monsters unless you argo them leading the girl to safety. At the same time wouldn't you Feel like a Hero, yes you didn't save the world, didn't fight Dr. Evilguy, but you did do something heroic.

That is something that I enjoy from the "other" MMO's out there which don't have the vast majority of quest content instanced.

The fact that quests can be hidden out of the way, either via a random item drop or by discovering a place that is off the beaten path.

Fireheart wrote:

Gangrel wrote:
Concerning the SWTOR stuff, whilst you could do it that way... I ended up with most of my companions being unplayed. I actually used gifts to enhance their affection, as it was (in my mind) the most efficient (and fastest way) to do it.

Well, I'm trying to keep at least moderate affection with all of mine. However, my Objection is in being 'forced' to say the things my Companion likes, instead of just playing the way I feel.
Still, the 'point' of the example is how a game within the main game can earn extra benefits and drive parts of the story.

I played it as I wanted to... I knew that I couldn't please them all "just playing the game" normally... if I offended them, I offended them (hey, its sure to happen). But for me the companion part of the game is an *optional* part of the game really (more of a meta game, that you could pretty much entirely skip).

But I do find it interesting that in an RPG, that you are disliking the fact that your actions HAVE an effect on your companions. Here is a hint: You cannot please all the people all the time, some people will dislike some things NO MATTER what you do. Other times, they will be pleased (within reason) no matter what you do. If you are trying to game the system so that you do not "offend them", then you WILL be forced to play in a way that "pleases them".

As I said though... gifts can be a life saver (and its how I quickly increased the rating between me and couple of my unplayed characters). Highly recommended, and you can do it as a "I am sorry" method of playing the game.

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And in terms of the content, I think that whilst you *might* be able to at least do the "normal" stuff, I think that by doing the puzzles you should be able to unlock or be rewarded for "going above the call of duty".

And if you feel that might be unfair, then that would basically leave us with the "Go, Hunt. Kill Skuls" missions, which is fair enough, but it *doesn't* exactly leave you with a lot of mission variety that you can do.

I suggest that one should be able to the 'normal' stuff without worrying about 'clues', but that paying attention to 'clues' could unlock additional layers of game-play within the 'normal stuff', like extra missions or Lore. Actually going beyond simply collecting and combining 'clues' into serious puzzle-solving, would then be an additional, alternate means of gaining experience and unlocking content.
In this way, a player could operate on several different levels, interchangeably. Sometimes I just want to bash thugs and take their stuff. Sometimes I might think, 'Hey, if I combine this stuff with other stuff, I might be able to make something.' And sometimes I might find myself intrigued by the stuff and feel like hunting up the deeper meanings behind it, so I could figure out something more complex.
However, at all points, the basic 'Beat up thugs and take their stuff' paradigm would remain effective. I worry about being 'forced' to solve some complex puzzle that the Devs thought was neat, in order to reach my next level and thereby becoming 'stuck' because I'm not, personally, clever enough.
Be Well!
Fireheart

And I have NO problem with this. Optional/Additional/Unlockable stuff would be a good way to do this. In the secret world, the investigation missions are NOT essential (as far as I am aware) to "completing the game", but they do help you discover (through your own actions) more of the history and lore of the games.

Sure, its *optional* but that does not mean that it cannot be *included*.

Does this mean that there would be some *content* locked behind it? Yep... could it be used as a "gate" to prevent players from doing content later on? I hope not... or if it is, then it is a *long running* side quest through out the whole game where it should NOT be the only thing available for you to do.

But getting in more variety of content into the game would be nice.