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PvP phase suggestion part 2

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Planet10's picture
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
PvP phase suggestion part 2

This thread is meant to explore an option to assist players in choosing a side when it comes to conflict with other players and hopefully inspire them to expand into the PvP phase.

There is a fair amount of background information about how MWM plans to implement the system that needs to be understood first.

Background Information: Alignment

3-Axis Alignment System (from the KS update)


The 3-Axis Alignment system uses three easily observable qualities to determine what kind of person people think your character is:

  • Law is a measure of your character’s willingness to adhere to the laws of Titan City. A Lawful character obeys the law, and tends to respect law enforcement. A Lawless character is almost always a criminal of some sort, and tends to be dismissive of authority
  • Violence is a measure of your character’s willingness to resort to unnecessary violence. We’re not going to cast judgement on you for fighting enemies--this is an MMO after all, if you get attacked, you can always fight back. This is a measure of non-combat violence. A Violent character is willing to use unnecessary force on his or her foes, including killing captive enemies and torturing people for information. A Non-Violent character tries to avoid violence outside of combat, and is more willing to talk foes down from fights, or pursue less harmful means of subdual.
  • Honor is a measure of your character’s trustworthiness. An Honest character keeps his or her promises, and tends to avoid deception. A Dishonorable character is willing to betray supposed allies to get ahead, and thrives on lies and falsehoods.

These aren’t binary measurements; each of these axes is its own scale designed to determine just how Lawful, Violent, or Honorable your character is. As your character explores Titan City, your actions will determine just where you stand.
Of course, there is a fourth component to this 3-axis alignment system as well; one that you choose. What is the correct term for your character, in your eyes or their own?

Tannim222 wrote:

(post #123) Hero and Villain are labels players use. They are descriptive - not prescriptive and do not drive game play. The alignment system is based on a tri-axis of Law, Honor, and Violence. You can have a lawful, honorable, violent hero or a lawful, honorable, violent villain.
Players do not read alignments of other players. It is up to you - the player to decide the reasoning for how and why your character behaves, and how and why other characters are behaving the way they do.
Hence, alignment does not factor much for driving pvp - the motivations are up to the player to interpret for themselves.

What needs to be understood:

The 3-Axis Alignment System does not determine who is a friend or who is an enemy when it comes to PvP.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

Planet10's picture
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
Background Information: PVP

Background Information: PVP Framework

Tannim222 wrote:

Character Level: a character's level.
Experience Points: earned to raise character level.
PvP Level Brackets: a range of character levels in which combat is possible in open-world pvp. This is to diminish the possibility of higher level characters ganking lower level characters and also provide bounds of performance within which fairer combat engagements may occur.
PvP XP: (term may change), point system used to gauge pvp rank.
PvP Rank: an indicator of successfulness in PvP which is used as a modifier to determine the value of a target for purposes of open-world pvp. Rank can raise through success and diminish through failure. Rank loss does not occur as quickly as gain. Taking on ranks closer to and above can also result in earning better "pvp currency".
PvP Achievements: various achievements earned through completing pvp-related challenges. Some may be permanent, others may have their counter reset after a faiure to meet the challenge. These achievements may act as a modifer to earning pvp xp. Achievements can include anything from win streaks to assisting in wins (via buffs and debuffs), and more.
Notoriety: This is earned through successful pvp - the more consecutive wins eanred, the more Notoriety gained. Taking on lower pvp-ranked targets will result in higher gain. Taking on closer to your rank and higher ranked targets will earn less. Notoriety is a bounty earned for defeating the player carryjng Notoriety. It acts as a modifier for pvp xp earned for defeating that target.

There will also be a pvp "currency" which can be saved and exchanged in order to purchase pve rewards including possibly pve xp.
Teaming with others will use the side-kick system (auto-adjust to the character level of engagement).
Side-kick up affects character level and modifies existing powers accordingly. Side-kick does restrict powers and reduces improvements to them according to character level.
Teaming will provide bonuses for earning pvp xp, and share the reward for defeating opponents.
The system as a whole is to encourage playing against similar rank. Lower ranks can take on the risk of hihger ranks for the opportunity of higher gains with less notoriety. Higher ranks against lower ranks don't gain much toward their rank improvement, still earn toward their achievements (which over time may yield a better bonus toward rank xp), but gain more notoriety as a result.

Tannim222 wrote:

(post #40) Being part of a Super Team prevents general pvp (unless you use the duel function, or enter in an event and choose opposing sides). And having a Super Team form a League (Super Teams that enter an "alliance" with the other) prevents general PvP outside those functions.

A "Super Team" (ST) is the equivalent of what we remember as a Super Group from CoX. Characters in the ST are not PvP active amongst themselves.
A "League" is an alliance between two or more Super Teams. Characters in the allied Super Teams are not PvP active amongst themselves.
A "group" is whatever random collection of characters you invite into the group. Characters in the group are not PvP active amongst themselves.
The moment a character leaves a group or ST they become PvP active. The moment a ST leaves a League they become PvP active (towards the remaining members of the League).

What needs to be understood:

For the purposes of PvP:

  • Everyone in your League is a friend. Everyone else is an enemy.
  • Everyone in your Super Team is a friend. Everyone else not in your League or your ST is an enemy.
  • Everyone in your group is a friend. Everyone else not in your League or ST or group is an enemy.

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

Planet10's picture
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21
The Suggestion:

The Suggestion:
Allow Super Teams to align with an NPC Faction. Assisting your aligned NPC faction will help generate 'currency' (whatever works within MWM's framework). In PvP situations it will also provide a few possible reinforced zones to potentially help protect you against other players. When your NPC faction particpates in a zone (or server) event, it can give you a motivation to choose a side in the fight.

(A) There will be server events (i.e. large scale events like invasions or giant plot devices to swing the player base into action). Most or all NPC factions will have some desired end result for the event (for, against, neutral). These events will occur sparingly. (for our purposes, refer to them as event_Server)
(B) There will be localized resource or scenario fights with multiple factions involved. They will occur with some frequency. (for our purposes, refer to them as event_Loc)
(C) Your aligned NPC faction will request that your Super Team help them accomplish something (run a scenario, street sweep, etc) from time to time. (for our purposes, refer to them as event_Faction)
(D) Your Super Team has a reputation with all NPC factions and it gets augmented by specifically committing to a side in a conflict (event_Server, event_Loc or event_Faction).
(E) MWM defines seasons or discreet periods of time. This is to keep the ST 'current' with the aligned NPC faction and allows the ST to change allegiances.
(F) When your ST commits to a side in a conflict, ST rep shifts +/- 1 (augmented by the ratios listed under the hood below). Rep shifts from event_Server are permanent. Rep shifts from event_Loc decay over time (lasts X number of days). Rep shifts from event_Faction decay over time (lasts Y number of days). There is a maximum rep shift of some number per category (event_Server / event_Loc / event_Faction) per season to keep things from running amok. It also allows a ST to shift allegiances and rebuild trust.

Benefit to the player base:
It provides a 'call to action'. NPC contacts can give the ST a heads up that something will be going down soon (event_Server, event_Loc or event_Faction)
It provides a minor motivation to choose a side in conflicts. You can choose to help an aligned NPC faction (rep shift & bonus reward), an opposing NPC faction (rep shift), or not commit the ST and help any faction and just get default rewards based on results/performance.
NPC factions that your ST has built Y reputation with will con neutral in the PvP phase, providing a semi-safe zone (the NPCs might attack other players). If you attack them, they will fight back.
NPC factions that your ST has positive reputation with will provide incremental bonus rewards for events (server/loc/faction) based on thresholds. This provides incentive to remain loyal to an NPC faction for multiple seasons.

What needs to happen under the hood:
(1) All NPC factions need to have defined alignments with all other NPC factions.

  • CORE: completely aligned in all ways (basically a category of one). rep gain occurs at 1:1 basis
  • FAIR: sort of aligned. Could be ideology, approach or just some common goals. rep gains occur at 3:2 basis
  • NEUTRAL: they don't care one way or the other about the NPC faction. no effect on rep gain
  • DISLIKED: not in direct opposition, but not happy about the NPC faction for whatever reason. rep loss occurs at 3:2 basis
  • HATED: diametrically opposed. rep loss occurs at 1:1 basis

(2) ST Leader can align the ST with a NPC faction. ST management settings could allow other ranks to change alignments.
(3) ST management settings to allow / restrict who can declare to support (or oppose) an NPC faction in an event.
(4) When arrive at an event, a mechanism to enforce or skip NPC alignment then declare for a faction. (player level setting?)
(6) Rewards : I am going to generically refer to the nebulous rewards as 'widgets'. It could be a currency, an enhancement, or whatever intermediate reward MWM wants.

  • x widgets for participating in the event
  • y widgets if the faction you declared for wins
  • z widgets if your aligned NPC faction wins (when NPC alignment is enforced)
  • w widgets for completing the event in the PvP phase
  • gain reputation shift (when NPC alignment is enforced) with the NPC factions that participated in the event (refer to #1 above for ratios) based on your ST's aligned NPC faction.

How it would work:
>> event_Server & event_Loc (arrive on scene, declaration, rewards)
>> open world

Alliances via Leagues are going to be tricky. If there are a large number of Leagues, the player base will exhibit a measure of caution to prevent getting teamed. If one League is very active, a few things can happen >> (1) They assert dominance and restrict membership (2) They let almost anyone in and bloat to the point where the choice becomes binary.

Edit: this post is still under construction, this is going to take some more time and it is late

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

Planet10's picture
Last seen: 2 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 03/23/2016 - 17:21

>> detailed example (NPC faction alignments, ST alignments, choosing a side, world pvp, bonuses)

*placeholder text*

"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit

Scott Jackson
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/20/2013 - 20:13
Overall, interested to see

Overall, interested to see where this idea goes.

The design appears heavily ST-centered (faction aligning is done by the ST leader or authorized representative(s), rep is tracked at the ST level, etc) from post #3. Therefore I have two general questions about the design's flexibility to handle personal (character or player) choices as the idea gets presented. Perhaps as you fill in the details it will become clear to me.

1) How well can it handle individual players who decide not to be in a ST?
Would the factions treat them as an imaginary ST of one? Can the same or similar method for the ST to align with NPC factions be used by a solo player to personally align with factions? Can the soloist participate in PvP events and have the game update and use their rep history to alter those NPC factions' behavior toward the player? Would the same faction rep system exist for PvE phase events where those factions may be present, but without the PvP element in the events?

2) Can it handle individual players who (for the purposes of a single event, or more permanently) wish to personally side with a faction other than ones that their ST's leader has chosen to align?
Maybe item (4) in post #3 hints at this? The game could require STs to align and act in a monolithic manner to resolve this question as a "no", of course...but it would be an interesting and realistic feature. Is a player's choice to side with a different faction than their ST handled in-game by the factions maintaining separate "rep files" for the ST and the individual?

For this question, I'm thinking of several examples where one or more players can deviate (openly, or in secret) from their ST's faction alignment for logical reasons.
Player character "AquaMerc 9000" (a robotic, water blasting mercenary) joins ST "Aqua Force".
Aqua Force ST's characters are required to have a water theme, and align generally with the ST's overall goals, but the mercenary / robotic aspects are something that this player has designed for the specific character.
Aqua Force ST's leader is a different player, and the leader has aligned the ST with factions "Atlanteans" and "Bayes' Pirates", two (imagined) water-centric factions in the game.
Zone Event "Surge of the Atlanteans" begins, and it pits the Atlanteans against the research corporation "ModTech Omega"...which is where AquaMerc 9000 obtains all of his power upgrades at low, low prices.
Ordinarily, AquaMerc 9000 would side with the Atlanteans and his ST. But this event pits a generic ally against a personal ally.
As a mercenary, AquaMerc 9000 wishes to serve the side that pays better / ensures his future, so logically he might not always side with water-using factions (generic allies), even if his ST does...and this is one of those cases.

Can AquaMerc 9000 participate in the event on the side of "ModTech Omega" to serve his own interests, but remain in the Aqua Force ST, and side with them and with the Atlanteans and Bayes' Pirates in all other events? Is he able to inform the Atlanteans that he is acting on his own in this case, so his SG does not suffer rep losses with them? Of course, their opinion of him as an individual could be affected...but that's how mercenary work goes.

Tannim222's picture
Last seen: 22 hours 4 min ago
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Joined: 01/16/2013 - 12:47
I suggest you read up on

I suggest you read up on Redlynne's (by now very old post) on pvevp and control points. It very closely resembles some of our very early design docs for the open world game (note: originally the entire world was open to this type of pvp event).

As things go, we had to shelf the concept. For one, Faction Rep plays a large role in the game in many ways. Being able to pick a current faction and easily shift reputation can have some unintented consequences. The faction rep scale is similar to thenine we have. Except we have to add additional code that gives temporary tolerance but can be used as leverage in actually changing faction rep from the event.

There are other obstacles to this which are not easily designed around as a result. Which is why we ahelved the pvevp concept.

It is something I would like to revisit. So keep going, who knows what we may find useful in the future.

I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
Tech Team.