Here's another idea I posted on Valiance Online, and they said it was do-able, in some form. I'd like to know how it flies here.
What you and your toon could take the ability to simply TALK your way out of literally any situation? Even combat situations? In the style of TRUE genius and manipulator like Lex Luthor, the Riddler, Calculator (there aren't that many comicbook examples, so these stand out) you would be an expert at communicating with and undermining anyone, no matter how crazy, vengeful, emotionless or righteous, by accurately judging them and then pushing the right buttons without even needing to resort to weapons or combat at all?
You could convince armed soldiers or police to stand down or seek advice from their commander, cause asassins to forget their training, you could converse with serial killers, bargain with religious fanatics and negiotiate with terrorists and revolutionaries, then break the confidence or spirits of any or all of these, paralyzing their actions and responses to give you or others ample time to strike.
Even if the enemies have no emotions or personalities, they are robots, zombies, wild animals or incomprehensible aliens, YOUR toon would still understand programming and machine AI, the instincts of zombies, behaviour of beasts and animals and the universal use of symbolic communication among even higher beings enough to gain their attention and convey a message, and that message would prevent the enemy from killing you immediately(first), lowering their weapons (second) and then doing whatever you suggest it should (third).
This would give your Hero toon the role of a Psychological Warrior, Supervillain Negotiator or Extreme Salesman, who can stall, pacify, reason with and disarm bad guys in any kind of chaotic situation or combat environment.
Or it would allow your Villain toon to be a masterly Supervillain-class Con Artist, Preaching Charlatan or Psychological Dominator, who can gain the confidence of anyone, even a superhero, enough to undermine their courage or determination, lay a guilt trip on them, spook the hell out of them, or drive them crazy with rage so that they attack the nearest enemy (besides you) without thought.
Examples of the use of this tactic can be found here:
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HannibalLecture
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreakThemByTalking
Imagine how Hannibal Lecter would deal with being confronted with a bunch of killer robots? He could convince them to self-destruct! Or maybe issue them with such a complex paradoxical question on the nature of their existence they would become self-aware just trying to think of the answer, and then attack each other when he reminds them that only by destroying all the others can any one of them be called unique and thus be a true individual.
Or, to put it another way, how did Lex Luthor manage to become President?
Or how does the Riddler avoid being shot or beaten up on a regular basis?
All without superpowers and without using a genuine weapon of any kind?
THAT'S your toon.
I would love to see a power set like this, but I know it would not be easy to design, although I have a few ideas, it would be tricky to apply in gameplay terms. And what would the FX be? Just unusual NPC emotes? (Actually that would funny enough for itself)
What do people think of this?
"TRUST ME."
There's obviously a subset of the superhero genre that's based on the "psychological approach" where such characters use the power of their mind/intelligence rather than physical capabilities to achieve their goals. The real question is how you could adapt that to fit into what's mostly going to be a "combat" oriented MMO.
There are plenty of computer games which allow players to click through a dialog with NPCs and make roleplay choices that affect how a various quests/adventures get resolved. But that's typically handled in non-combat interactions between the player and the game directly. How would you quantify a character's ability to "fast-talk" in a way that'd be similar to figuring out how much damage a fighter could do with a sword or a haymaker?
To have an "intelligence-based" character fit in with the other archetypes it might have to use a hybrid mix of sonic-based and confusion-based mental attacks and animations. Fantasy games in the past have used the concept of the D&D "bard" that uses music/song to stun/confuse enemies and buff allies - perhaps there could be powers for CoT that would technically be voice-based but would have crowd-control type effects instead of damaging ones. Some of the powers could have chat bubbles pop out from the character's mouths with witty comments or catch phrases as a sort of side-effect of the animation and I could see it being pretty cool if the game let you edit what's in those chat bubbles.
It'd still be kind of difficult to have a 100% fast-talker type character in a game like CoT that's going to be so combat oriented. Maybe there could be powersets that have a few of these kinds of intelligence-based powers mixed in with other kinds of more traditional powers like pets or healing or some-such. Or maybe there could just be a "fast-talk" power pool that'd let characters focused on other things have a few powers like this. For instance it's arguable that Catwoman could be defined as a claws/reflex scrapper combat-wise with a few "seductive/motivational" voice-based powers on the side.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
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I think this would be linked to a Confuse-based set much like Lothic stated.
How you want your character to display this is up to you and what options are available in game.
This also makes it realistic as even if you are able to confuse a bunch (mob) of people there might still be one that you don't persuade (roll low on the attack roll) so you "miss" them.
Although I don't see how even if your character understands Robotic AI you could reprogram them to not attack you. For example: Robots/Sentry Guns have a simple rule of "Attack anything that does not carry a specific visual badge". You don't have that badge so unless you can hack in and change the programming you are going to be attacked.
The Phoenix Rising Initiative Rules Lawyer
I dont hate the idea.. not at all.. I find it somewhat implausible.. It would seemingly take more time to produce the same result as other crowd control sets but perhaps the benefit would be far greater than typical crowd control.
Crowd Control Enthusiast
I can't get into details but I can say that the idea of something like this working as a power set would not work, particularly using our control system. The idea of being able to "talk your way" through encounters has been brought up before. Realize this would not work as a power set of a classification, as it is more of a type of game play, and since all of our classifications are designed around combat roles, a "smooth talker" (in its most basic sense) would not be something a specific classification was designed around.
This type of play could be supported through our noncombat powers system where anyone could gain access to one or more powers that play with the reputation system allowing someone to talk to an npc that may otherwise not want to talk to them. It's been stated that we want to support as many possible options for gameplay as possible, but there are quite a few...obstacles we would need to navigate to make this type of gameplay possible. The short answer is, its on the radar.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Would Hannibal Lecturers not be doable as a control set? Think of how one could simply apply a psionic or illusionary damage (in the event we wish to simulate recovery from being taken aback) akin to having one's mind broken. That's your damage type. The power animations could follow along the lines of looking like you're giving elegant speeches, sputtering gibberish like a lunatic, barking orders like a drill sergeant, and any other conversational styles that would fit the power in question. Now, to turn it into a full-blown powerset...
TIER: 1
POWER NAME: Startle
FUNCTION: Single target, high illusionary damage, magnitude 3 disorient for 2 seconds. 2-second recharge time. 5% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You bark at your opponent, startling them such that they are too fazed to attack for a moment.
TIER: 2
POWER NAME: Intimidate
FUNCTION: Single target, high illusionary damage, magnitude 6 hold for 8 seconds. 8-second recharge time. 10% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You sneer menacingly at your opponent, dispelling their confidence and leaving them trembling before you.
TIER: 3
POWER NAME: Shout Down
FUNCTION: Single target, moderate illusionary damage, magnitude 3 disorient for 8 seconds. 12-second recharge time. 20% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You cry out in detest to a group of enemies, taking them aback and silencing them for a moment.
TIER: 4
POWER NAME: Placate
FUNCTION: Single target, magnitude 6 placate for 30 seconds. 20-second recharge time. 20% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You dispel the anger and doubt in an opponent with your honeyed words, placating them for a time.
TIER: 5
POWER NAME: Rallying Cry
FUNCTION: Player-based AoE, 20% buff to damage and damage resistance for 30 seconds, +25% endurance heal. 60-second recharge time. 5% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You utter an encouraging motto or slogan aloud, raising the valor of yourself and your allies for awhile.
TIER: 6
POWER NAME: Siren's Whisper
FUNCTION: Single target, high illusionary damage, magnitude 6 sleep for 12 seconds. 8-second recharge time. 10% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You beseech an enemy with but a whisper, invoking ASMR and lulling them into a passive state.
TIER: 7
POWER NAME: Siren's Hymn
FUNCTION: Player-based AoE, moderate illusionary damage, magnitude 3 sleep for 12 seconds. 15-second recharge time. 20% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You usher forth a comforting song, lulling the droves of enemies before you into a light slumber.
TIER: 8
POWER NAME: Deception
FUNCTION: Single target, moderate illusionary damage, magnitude 6 confusion for 30 seconds. 45-second recharge time. 20% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You feed a string of lies into your opponent's ear, leading them to believe that their allies are the real enemy for a time.
TIER: 9
POWER NAME: Summon Disciples
FUNCTION: Single click, summon minion, 60-second recharge time. 40% endurance cost.
DESCRIPTION: You usher forth a cry for help, summoning 3 minions who you have befriended with your persuasive talent to fight by your side. The Disciples function like regular minion-level gangsters, knowing only one or two powers and having rudimentary health, but make up for their weaknesses in numbers. (COMPARABLE TO THE "GANG WAR" POWER OF THUGS MASTERMINDS)
...Alternatively, we could have the "Mind Control" powerset simply have power animations that involve visibly shouting at enemies rather than putting your fingers to your temples or what-have-you. It's your call.
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I think you are speaking of an animation set I'd call "wimp" I think it'd be cute assuming the FX could follow suit
I don't think it necessarily belongs in a combat game where you're getting hit by fantasy violence (shot at, punched, etc). I don't want to see someone groveling and talkingg while getting shot.. it's like watching someone beat up the Dalai Lama or Ghandi
Crowd Control Enthusiast
It would work better as a debuff heavy support animation set.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Or beating up a megaphone, for that matter. I was hoping that such animations would follow a model akin to how TES: Skyrim handled the Thuum. Utter a few syllables of power, add some booming/ethereal FX, and you wind up saying "LIGHTNING BOLT!" and tazing your opponents to death on the winds of your breath.
But yeah, I'll have to agree with you on the whole "groveling and talking in the middle of a fight" bit. In a world of fantasy violence, you've gotta go big. (though ironically, the Siren's Song power on CoH was nothing short of using a soothing voice to put enemies to sleep) Rest assured, I'm sure the devs will get more bombastic than that.
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AAlbusUUmbra, the power set you described, can really boil down to our animation customization and would certainly be possible so far as animations are concerned. It is still a combat based set and wouldn't apply as a way to talk through encounters. The latter is something some players have expressed as a desire. While combat is our main focus being an action oriented game, we do want to provide a game were multiple play styles are possible. The talking through encounters part is on the radar, but is something of a low hanging fruit at this point.
One of the issues is that one type of play would need to be primary over the other, in that any talk-type-combat would not be possible when action based combat occurs on the same target. This would result in talk your way through / into / out of situations be relegated purely to dialogue portions of encounters, or it becomes possible to do this if you can attain sufficient rep with a faction (even if temporally thanks to a power), but would be relegated to several situations. Those situations being, the team lets the talker do the talking, then commences combat when talking is done, the team all agree to talk-type-combat, or talking is utilized more for solo play. If it is something we will attempt to allow, any powers relating to this talk-type stuff would probably end up relegated to power selections outside of primary and secondary sets so that any classification can be used to play this way if the player desires.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Okay, I believe that I am on the same page, now: [i]Talking down opponents before a battle is fine. Using voice-themed powers is all good. Stopping the combat sequence for a quick chat is ridiculous.[/i]
I couldn't expect anything more, really.
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Conversational Combat could work if it were treated almost like a a low level, voice activated reality warping. Rondo from Yu Yu Hakusho had a powerful ability to shrink enemies that required the enemy to hear the incantation so there is precedence.
Issue 0 CoH player barely let my subscription lapse before NC Soft called it quits; my incarnate gear *Sniff*
Global: Chance Jackson; Triumph: Liege Cheetatron X, Fight of Your Life, Down Right Fierce, Infernal Samurai, Time May Change Me etc
I just have this mental image of a full team of eight heroes; seven are wailing on the boss while one runs up and says something to him and he gives up.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
Maybe as a minor power or some type of masterybut I cant see it as a primary power set. It would be an intresting mastery thou:
Effect: Your enemies get weaker and/or get random debuffs while fighting you thanks to your words breaking their hopes and courage.
I think psychological combat would be best represented as buffs and debuffs rather than attacks that do damage. The joker may be able to outwit batman by being one step ahead of him and by Hannibal lecturing him, but they don't actual cause him to take damage. He infuriates him (-acc), depressed him (-damage) and confuses him (-def), but he's able to win by using his physical attacks on a debuffed batman. I think Joker would be a debuff heavy support/assault more than anything else with him using a pistol in one hand and a knife or crowbar in the other.
not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM
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Now y'r talking, that's just what I meant.
"TRUST ME."
Okyesbut...
That seems very "CoH tightly themed set" and less decoupled than CoT is going for. Probably not even necessary in CoT. This can easily be done in a power-decoupled game like CoT by picking the appropriate animation and then deciding the "theme" yourself.
What I mean is, get your debuff Primary/Secondary/Tertiary/Mastery or whatever Power Set and then use low/no animations and make part of your personally created theme psychological warfare.
There's no reason to make a general debuff set be a tightly themed power set (which they're trying to stay away from in general) unless maybe you want a specific effect like you talking and gesticulating for animations.
Come to think of it, even then animations like that would be better decoupled too so that they could be used for Magic or other player-themes.
FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)