Announcements

Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/city-of-titans-official-633757967899951105

Q2 Update is live. See what we've been up to.

To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.

Proper Patching

24 posts / 0 new
Last post
Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
Proper Patching

I just wanted to play some CO and again found what a complete mess this game is (the AC is acceptable).
While the launcher says that everything is patched and I can play, as soon as I enter a map, any map, the game appearently remembers that there are aditional files it needs to download and patch RIGHT NOW.
Which immediately disconnects me from the game server. Yes, my internet connection leaves something to be desired... but this is just bad business.
When the launcher says the game is ready to be played, then imo it should be ready and not happily patch parts and pieces while I'm trying to play. This is sooo infuriating.
So, please tell me CoT will have proper patching.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]

doctor tyche
doctor tyche's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 day ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 11:29
Avel is handling the launcher

Avel is handling the launcher/patcher, so I'll poke him to comment.

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Kiyori Anoyui
Kiyori Anoyui's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/10/2013 - 11:03
I like the steam method and

I like the steam method and IIRC the CoH method where you couldn't even load the game up unless it was up to date and ready to go.

The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

Avatar by lilshironeko

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:

I just wanted to play some CO and again found what a complete mess this game is (the AC is acceptable).
While the launcher says that everything is patched and I can play, as soon as I enter a map, any map, the game appearently remembers that there are aditional files it needs to download and patch RIGHT NOW.
Which immediately disconnects me from the game server. Yes, my internet connection leaves something to be desired... but this is just bad business.
When the launcher says the game is ready to be played, then imo it should be ready and not happily patch parts and pieces while I'm trying to play. This is sooo infuriating.
So, please tell me CoT will have proper patching.

I'm here.
CoT's patching system is called Waypoint. The game itself will not be checking for patches which is what it appears is happening with CO from your description.
Waypoint begins with a self-patcher. It checks to see if all the files in Waypoint are present and up-to-date. It then hands over the reigns to the main program. That checks that the self-updater is current and updates it if necessary. It then updates all installed products if necessary. It then brings up a display of installed products, news, etc. provides access to a catalog of additional products as well. From the catalog you can initiate new product installs. From the primary screen you can launch already installed products.

It's a pretty complex system where I'm having a lot of parts to integrate and test as you can probably imagine. I'm also having to consider security issues and the like. Much fun to code (not!)

No product should be launchable until it's files are verified and updated/repaired.

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
Thanks, that's quite

Thanks, that's quite reassuring.

avelworldcreator wrote:

It's a pretty complex system where I'm having a lot of parts to integrate and test as you can probably imagine. I'm also having to consider security issues and the like. Much fun to code (not!)

Yeah, that sounds like a royal pain in the ...neck.
You have my sympathy.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]

SisterSilicon
SisterSilicon's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 2 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 07/17/2014 - 20:14
Nos482 wrote:
Nos482 wrote:

I just wanted to play some CO and again found what a complete mess this game is (the AC is acceptable).
While the launcher says that everything is patched and I can play, as soon as I enter a map, any map, the game appearently remembers that there are aditional files it needs to download and patch RIGHT NOW.
Which immediately disconnects me from the game server. Yes, my internet connection leaves something to be desired... but this is just bad business.
When the launcher says the game is ready to be played, then imo it should be ready and not happily patch parts and pieces while I'm trying to play. This is sooo infuriating.
So, please tell me CoT will have proper patching.

Cryptic Engine has an on-demand patching option that's turned on by default. You have to go into the launcher options to turn it off. Restart the launcher after that, and it will make sure all files are patched before launching the game executable. (Although that might be one of the options that takes effect without a restart. It's been a while since I've had to mess with it. Or run it.)

Twitter: @SisterSilicon

Nos482
Nos482's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/25/2013 - 14:50
That option exists?

That option exists?
Wow, thanks for telling everyone Cryptic /s
And a non-sarcastic thank you to you for telling me about it.
€dit:
And suddenly I need to dl another 1531MB... screw this game, when does CoT launch?

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_HUdf89hI8]Send out your signal, call in your hero
I kidnapped his lady, now his power's are zero.
[/url]

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 4 months ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Does Waypoint have the

Does Waypoint have the ability to download major patches in the background before release, like the old game did, so that when the patch or update goes live most of the files are already on the client?

Spurn all ye kindle.

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
I can probably set that up.

I can probably set that up. Hadn't thought about it until now. I'll see what the rest of the team thinks. I do want to be able to have the game launch before all the files are loaded like many games do now (and CoX was doing near the end).

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 4 months ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
It made it easier for the

It made it easier for the launch of new Issues in the old game, so on go-live day we could start playing right away, rather than everyone sitting there hitting the same download server.

Spurn all ye kindle.

blacke4dawn
blacke4dawn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/28/2015 - 03:02
As long as you give a clear

As long as you give a clear way to determine when the game is truly fully patched then I have no issues. Most launchers who allow partly patched launching still do true 100% patching while indicating when it has passed a launch-able state, and some even has a "recommended state", for those who wants to play "nau". That methodology is much preferred over what Cryptic has done since it very easily gives us the option to fully patch before launching, instead of just stopping at its "recommended state". Or at least patch as much as possible while we grab some snacks and drinks. :P

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 4 months ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Yeah, I don't mind waiting to

Yeah, I don't mind waiting to play till the game is fully patched. It's just the downloading that I think would be nice to spread out over lead-up time so that not everyone is doing it at once. If memory serves, the old game would ask when you logged off if you wanted to leave the downloader running in the background.

Spurn all ye kindle.

TitansCity
TitansCity's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 2 weeks ago
11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/28/2013 - 02:09
Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

It made it easier for the launch of new Issues in the old game, so on go-live day we could start playing right away, rather than everyone sitting there hitting the same download server.

for sure, it could facilitate the stress of the server :)

[hr]
Suivez l'avancement du jeu City of Titans en Français sur https://titanscity.com
http://forum.titanscity.com | www.facebook.com/titanscity | http://twitter.com/TitansCity
[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
Since right now that server

Since right now that server is a very small computer sitting in my basement I'd appreciate that!

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

Foradain
Foradain's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 10/25/2013 - 21:06
Eventually, we hope you'll

Eventually, we hope you'll need a bigger basement. ^_^

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]

Grimfox
Grimfox's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
kickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/05/2014 - 10:17
I don't think I've ever

I don't think I've ever played a game with a crappy updater. Sounds like Avel has found a nice piece of customizable software that will work well. If I may derail the topic slightly. What kind of security concerns are you dealing with, Avel? Is it just the log-in information?

Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
Didn't find it - I MADE it!

Didn't find it - I MADE it! Other than a bit of bootstrap code from someone else just to put my work in place. It's already even whitelisted with one antivirus program (I'll have to look that one up later if you are interested.
I'm literally using the Unreal Engine as the base for the installer. This gives me an automatically cross-platform installer with a consistent UI/UX.
And login is one of the issues. Protection of intellectual property is another. A final one is making things resistant to malware injection. Have I missed anything?

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
Foradain wrote:
Foradain wrote:

Eventually, we hope you'll need a bigger basement. ^_^

Oh, I have a big enough basement. I just need to finish it and get my flooding issue handled. I know how to do both things but that will take throwing some money at it (which, unfortunately, I don't have enough of at that moment).

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 2 weeks ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

I can probably set that up. Hadn't thought about it until now. I'll see what the rest of the team thinks.

[size=24][b]POST-LAUNCH FEATURE.[/b][/size]

Gods, we have enough to make work already. We'll work on that when "Issue 1" isn't just a cloudy dream in the distance.

As for "lazy" patching, where things are only patched when needed, so every load screen is a patch screen... Star Trek Online did that, and it got really damn old. And you couldn't turn it off. There was an option somewhere that supposedly patched everything every launch, but even it sometimes ran patches during gameplay.

I don't think anyone here wants to go there. It's just another thing that can break.

Foradain wrote:

Eventually, we hope you'll need a bigger basement. ^_^

It'll be Dr. Tyche's basement.

P.S. Elsewhere, there has been a strong desire expressed by many players to make the launcher as "fire and forget" as possible. Ideally, you launch the launcher, it gets your login info, and it does the whole "update self, update product(s), launch game" litany itself, and you can go off and, say, make heroic rations while the gears grind, come back when the music starts playing, and jump right in.

Whether this is the default mode of operation or just a "direct launch shortcut" feature is TBD.

[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]

Lin Chiao Feng
Lin Chiao Feng's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 2 weeks ago
Developerkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 11/02/2013 - 09:27
Oh, and one other note: Lazy

Oh, and one other note: Lazy patching (i.e. patching only what you need to when you need it, instead of preemptively patching everything) is one of those "features" that's sold as good-for-you but is mostly good-for-them.

Good-for-you: "You get into the game faster!" (No mention that gameplay keeps getting interrupted for patching.)

Good-for-them: big bandwidth cuts to their update servers saves them money. (That's what gets people promoted.)

[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]

zyric
zyric's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/18/2014 - 06:21
avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Didn't find it - I MADE it! Other than a bit of bootstrap code from someone else just to put my work in place. It's already even whitelisted with one antivirus program (I'll have to look that one up later if you are interested.
I'm literally using the Unreal Engine as the base for the installer. This gives me an automatically cross-platform installer with a consistent UI/UX.
And login is one of the issues. Protection of intellectual property is another. A final one is making things resistant to malware injection. Have I missed anything?

What about patch hijacking? Where someone spoofs either the patch servers IP or name and provides their own patch, or are the patches digitally signed so the client would know that the patch file has been compromised?

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
zyric wrote:
zyric wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

Didn't find it - I MADE it! Other than a bit of bootstrap code from someone else just to put my work in place. It's already even whitelisted with one antivirus program (I'll have to look that one up later if you are interested.
I'm literally using the Unreal Engine as the base for the installer. This gives me an automatically cross-platform installer with a consistent UI/UX.
And login is one of the issues. Protection of intellectual property is another. A final one is making things resistant to malware injection. Have I missed anything?

What about patch hijacking? Where someone spoofs either the patch servers IP or name and provides their own patch, or are the patches digitally signed so the client would know that the patch file has been compromised?

Yes. I've been very concerned about that. That comes under "malware injection".

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

avelworldcreator
avelworldcreator's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Developer11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 12/04/2012 - 12:19
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

I can probably set that up. Hadn't thought about it until now. I'll see what the rest of the team thinks.

[size=24][b]POST-LAUNCH FEATURE.[/b][/size]

Gods, we have enough to make work already. We'll work on that when "Issue 1" isn't just a cloudy dream in the distance.

As for "lazy" patching, where things are only patched when needed, so every load screen is a patch screen... Star Trek Online did that, and it got really damn old. And you couldn't turn it off. There was an option somewhere that supposedly patched everything every launch, but even it sometimes ran patches during gameplay.

I don't think anyone here wants to go there. It's just another thing that can break.

Foradain wrote:

Eventually, we hope you'll need a bigger basement. ^_^

It'll be Dr. Tyche's basement.

P.S. Elsewhere, there has been a strong desire expressed by many players to make the launcher as "fire and forget" as possible. Ideally, you launch the launcher, it gets your login info, and it does the whole "update self, update product(s), launch game" litany itself, and you can go off and, say, make heroic rations while the gears grind, come back when the music starts playing, and jump right in.

Whether this is the default mode of operation or just a "direct launch shortcut" feature is TBD.

I've been working on the "fire and forget' version too. (Waypoint Terminal). I'm just trying to figure a way to make that selectable by the user easily.
And I've already got the pre-launch loading worked out too. It's pretty trivial as far I can see. No worries.

-----------

[color=#FF0000]Senior Developer/Project Manager/Co-Founder... and then some.[/color]

Cinnder
Cinnder's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 4 months ago
Gunterkickstarter11th Anniversary Badge
Joined: 08/26/2013 - 16:24
Outstanding! You get a gold

Outstanding! You get a gold star. :-)

Spurn all ye kindle.