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Power Set Configurations

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General Havok
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Power Set Configurations

A CoX Blaster, as example, had many different power sets. (Fire, Force, Ice, Mental, Sonic, Arrow, & a few others) Each of these had a sniper shot, and a couple of other shots, then had a few filler powers that made each set unique, not counting the trait the type of power got. (Fire = DoT / Force = Knockback) Would it be better to have the all the Blasters have the same powers, but allowing you to decide what the source of the power was, and gain the trait / traits that are associated with that source?

kitsune9tails
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Why not both a variety of

Why not both a variety of power sets and a variety of 'skins' and customization options within a given power set?

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General Havok
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I'd like to have a "power

I'd like to have a "power pool" for each class. Say 10-20 powers in each pool, and when you achieve a level that grants a new power you can pick any of the powers in the pool. This would lead to a larger variety of characters having different powers. Instead of "Example" CoX's Blasters all running around with 2-3 short to medium ranged powers and 1 long ranger power, allow the player to have the option of being able to select 4 short to medium ranged powers, or select 3 long range and 1 short range power, or any other combination they would like to build.

GlassWalker80
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I agree with the General. One

I agree with the General. One of my biggest gripes about MMO's is that there usually ends up being 1 "meta" which makes all the other options less effective. More variety is always a great thing, particularly when it's viable.

I also think that damage types should actually come into play (along with resistances). I've seen too many games where there was no point to damage types because they really had no purpose. If my PC gets burned all to hell, the effects should be drastically different than being frozen or even stabbed.

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne

Comicsluvr
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I agree completely. I

I agree completely. I strongly believe that each Powerset should have too many powers for any 1 character to have by level 50. CoX made us make some tough choices but within the sets themselves they all gravitated towards one general build.

We want to try to avoid throwaway powers (the ones nobody takes because they suck) of course. Having balance AND variety will be tough but it's a worthwhile goal IMHO.

Every set should probably have a basic template for balance's sake (at least 2 short-ranged attacks, 3 long-ranged attacks to use Blasters as the example) but we can clearly build from there. Not all players are power-gamers and some won't care if their build isn't optimal as long as it's fun.

I remember when Star Wars was cool...a long, long time ago...

TheMadGent
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From what I've seen, they're

From what I've seen, they're aiming for each character getting 2 8-power sets, plus access to 'pool' powers, including smaller versions of regular power sets. For example, I could make Shmor, God of Lighting as a War Mace/Invulnerability tank, and round him out with some powers from Electric Blast.

The world is a mess and I just ... need to rule it.

Skattershot
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General's got a good idea. If

General's got a good idea. If a "Blaster" power pool is 9 typical powers, they could be a select set of ranged powers from a "general power" pool only available to the Blaster. They could have 3 short, 2 medium, 2 long, 1 buff, 1 debuff of any kind. So a blaster could have a different variety of powers from this set pool all related to this class of powers. There could be 4-5 different short range fire powers that they could select from, whereas they would only need 3 to fill the toon.

Ellysyn
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How customized are powers

How customized are powers going to be. Is it going to be like how CoH was and you pick from the fire set only. Is it going to be freeform like CO where you pick from any set if you meet the requirements of having X amount of set or non set powers already. Or pick any power ya want provided you meet the lvl bracket for it and that you picked powers from the lower lvl brackets so that a person isnt just running around with 6 ultimate final tier powers.

Ya know how some powers followed a combo system. Like the MA's did in CoH and I think CO has some of those too. Like one attack lets ya causes bleeds and then once ya get them stacked then use a charge attack that hits harder depending on the stacks of bleed. WoW DK's have have powers that do extra damage depending on the amount of diseases ya have on an enemy. So hit them with 2 disease attacks and then smack them with the other attack and do loads of damage. Will we get to see some of those.

Also if there are like say elemental damage. To me it never made sense to me that I'm a fire hero and yet I can still take fire damage. Why can't I just absorb or be immune to fire damage. Like the fire elementals in WoW. if ya hit them fire magic. They get healed or just immune to it. Hit them with think water and they take loads of damage.

That's another thing. I remember when CO came out i thought it was going to be like the table top. You would have advantages AND disadvantages. The idea I thought would have been kinda cool. Certain powers maybe gave you a small disadvantage. Being Ice means you took extra damage from fire but you caused enemies around you to move slower. Stuff like that. Heck even some kind of group disadvantage would have been interesting. Ya healing powers have greater effect when you are in a group but ya offensive powers lose damage or something. I dunno. Just rambling ideas.

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Tarakas
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Another suggestion I'll throw

Another suggestion I'll throw out there would be the ability to add effects to basic powers. For example: blasters usually start with a short range basic blast. Level up and maybe you can add a cone effect or a knockback/down effect, or a heal effect. Higher levels could give you greater effects like area blast or a slow zone or a blind effect.

This would promote good power diversity since people would pick different effects depending on their character concept. This would also help insure you get something new at every level. So maybe every 4th level you get a new power, in between, you get an enhancement slot to an existing power, or a power effect to an existing power.

This way at the end one blasters short range blast would almost certainly be different from the next blasters.

JayBezz
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That should give you and idea

That should give you and idea of how my ideal powers table works out:

1) Each character must choose a role: Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Tank, Heal, or Catalyst (there is no special roles for Pet-Master and Morphs and Stealth but very possible otherwise*).
Role determines how your passive works. It also gives you some innate changes like amount of HP, Amount of base energy, and innate power advantages

2) Passives:
Might (Physical Dmg), Fire (Temp Dmg), Psychic (Supernatural Dmg), Earth (Nature Dmg), Electric (Particle Dmg), Martial Arts (Physical Dmg), Ice (Temp Dmg), Sorcery (Supernatural Dmg), Poison (Nature Dmg), Force (Particle Dmg)

Passives work differently depending on which role you're in and cannot be ranked. They grow with your total characteristic points (no "special stats") Some examples:

Might:
Tank - XXXX Physical Damage threshold, and XXX to all damage threshold
MDPS - Increases Base Offense to all melee XX%
RDPS - Adds XXXX Physical damage to all ranged attacks
Heal - Regenerates XXX HP every 3 seconds
Catalyst - -XX Defense to Debuffs

Fire:
Tank - Removes XXX HP to all incoming attacks within XX ft
MDPS - Adds XXXX Temperature damage to all melee attacks
RDPS - +XX% Fire Damage to all Ranged attacks
Heal - Removes X Debuffs on heals
Catalyst - +XX Energy aura to team every 5 seconds

Psychic:
Tank - +XX% Paranormoal DMG resistance/ +X% all damage resist
MDPS - +XX Mez HP to all melee attacks
RDPS - +X% penetration to all ranged attacks
Heal - Targets being healed ignore damage effects (but still take damage).
Catalyst - +XX% increase to Mez HP

3) Battle Stances:
Archery, Staff, Whip, Heavy Gun, Dual Wield Pistols, Single Wield Pistol, Heavy Blade, Dual Wield Blades, Single Wield Blade, Fists, Feet, Head, Chest
Battle Stances are emanation points and toggle forms. Each build gets two total and you can switch to/from in combat. They each have animations for melee and range. You can purchase more animations for each stance.

4) Cast Database (Devs will create powers based on the following database) - For this example I'm assuming each power will have up to 5 database points of Damage (Note: This does not take energy nor cooldown nor cast time into effect yet)

Attack Types: Strike, Blast, Maintain, Linger (DoT)
Attack database points can:
1) increase base damage (specified by damage type.. EX: if your power is currently physical damage you can add +200 psychic damage to the base damage)
2) add an effect (+Mez Points, +knock, +Debuff, +Additional Target)
3) Add range of damage
4) Add a combo prefix to the power (Each hit of a combo is progressively stronger... adding a prefix adds a strike before the main power)
5) Change Area of effect (Line, Arc or AoE - 2 or 3 or 4 points respectively)

Summon Types:
Summon database points can:
1) Increase the base strength of the Summon (by damage type)
2) Increase number of summons (2 points)
3) Add a special cooldown cast to pet (2 points to Command Summon to: Heal target, Self Destruct, Stealth Strike, Mez Target)

Heal Types: Shield, Blast, Maintain, Heal over Time
Heal Database can:
1) Increase the base strength of the heal
2) add an effect (-Mez Points, -knock, -Debuff, +Additional Target)
3) Change effect to self (3 points)
4) Change Area of effect (Line, Arc or AoE - 2 or 3 or 4 points respectively)

Buff Types: +Crit Chance, +Base Damage, +Dodge, +Mitigation, +Energy, +Movement, +Shield
Buff Advantage Points can:
1) Change effect to self (3 points)
2) Increase Buff duration
3) Change Area of effect (Line, Arc or AoE - 2 or 3 or 4 points respectively)

If the devs use the above database when creating powers for each framework I don't see as much potential for powers balance to be an issue. It allows for HUNDREDS of powers to be created with differing effects and THOUSANDS of combinations, but the base effectiveness of each power created will be on a common ground so none are more powerful than others in a freeform choice system.

If the devs then give us advantage points to spend as ADDITIONAL Database Points then we get a robust powers system where almost NO two players have the same powers. But all are "balanced" against the effectiveness set forth in the powers database. One of the major problems of other games trying to give players customization in powers creation was that they never had a baseline in their powers systems. I sincerely hope that a streamlined powers database alleviates this problem and still has PLENTY of room for new powers to be added without ruining the powers database.

I trust CoT to find experienced, capable combat designers so please don't think I'm trying set forth an exactness of what powers should be. I wanted simply to set forth an example of how character balance could be measured for both PvE and PvP effectiveness. (Please do not create Useless powers or FoTM powers like other freeform combat systems). I really look forward to seeing the systems designers final product!

~JayBezz

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Follies
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I so agree with Comicsluvr on

I so agree with Comicsluvr on having no powers that suck, if you DEVs see a power choice that is rarely taken or never used if a person must take it, then please take a look and at least make it marginally useful for more than just an RPing prop because it has a cool animation. I so hated Gale as a secondary, because you had to take it. Even maxed out with a descent IO set the animation was too long to make it useful and it did so little damage and missed too many mobs to be worth anything other than an opportunity to RP. I would slot brawl before wasting a slot on Gale. Many times I didn't even bother putting it into my powers tray. There were other powers like this too but none so miffing to me personally because I actually loved the storm set and knew how not to scatter aggro with it.

I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right to not agree.

Cinnder
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I don't quite understand what

I don't quite understand what you mean by "had to take it" -- maybe my memory is fading already, but I don't remember any powers that you couldn't skip if you didn't like them.

Spurn all ye kindle.

Follies
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You had to take the first

You had to take the first tier of your secondary powerset, sadly. But my point was that every power should be worth taking.

I reserve the right to have an opinion. You reserve the right to not agree.

Gorgon
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You also had to take 2 of the

You also had to take 2 of the first 3 in a pool (and patron?) to get at that golden 4th power. Some pools had useless (er, "highly situational") powers, at least one of the two forced choices.

Funny, For a long time I considered "combat jumping" in jumping to be one such power, but in later years I considered combat jumping one of the most underrated, unsung powers in the game. It was combat jumping that made me take jumping for all melee instead of some other travel power.

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The very existence of the taunting tank irritates, for it requires idiotic AI that obeys the taunt.