Power Ideas: Mechanics and Systems

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Baaleos
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Power Ideas: Mechanics and Systems

Hi Guys,
I've played City of Heroes, Champions Online, DC Universe, Mass Effect and Skyrim : and to be honest, a lot of them have systems, features and power mechanics that singularly are impressive, but don't quite work as well as I wish they did, but together and with some improvements - they could work great.

City of Heroes and Mass Effect 3 both have force field powers allowing you to create domed force fields that unfortunately don't block weapon fire, or physically block/repel monsters/enemies effectively.
Would it be too much to ask for a force field power set that did manage to block projectiles.
Most of the force field powers just passively add defence increase to the inhabitants of the force field.

City of Heroes also had a unique PhysX utilization in many of is powersets that I loved.
Eg: Gravity Control - The effect it had when lifting debris from the ground and launching it.
Eg: Storm Control - the blizzard effect / snow storm effects: when you could anchor the effect to a player, and then it would blow trees, suck leaves, and everything.

As far as Skyrim goes - I'd love to see image space modifiers in use.
Eg: Imagine powers that altered your screen space - providing tinting or even colorization of enemies
Heat Targeting, Seeing Enemies through walls etc.

Image Space modifiers could also be used to facilitate invisibility, and the ability to pierce that invisibility.

Insatiable
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I think a more holistic

I think a more holistic discussion on damage/attack mechanics should be made available, maybe educate us on the current direction to help guide the discussions and make them more focused.

What would the attack equation look like (accuracy, to-hit, def, res, etc.)?
What are the damage types (Physical (Smashing, Lethal); Thermal (Fire, Ice); Toxic/Vital (unique within itself, no polarity); Energy (Positive, Negative); Supernatural (Magic, Mental/Psychic) etc.)?

I'd like to know a little about that to help frame the kinds of suggestions I would make. I can understand, however, if this is a little too secret sauce to put on the forums, but might help a lot of the discussions I have read on the forums.

"it's a long road to wisdom, but it's a short one to being ignored." The Lumineers

Cedd66
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Wire Melee: a mix of cone,

Wire Melee: a mix of cone, melee and range attacks (Metal wires comeing from from gloves )

Whip Melee

Solar Melee,Blast & Lunar Control,Blast
Eclipse Melee Control and Blast
Stellar Blast.Melee and control
Crystal blast
Mental bending
Magma

would be nice to have

Cedd66
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Psionic Control: having pure

Psionic Control: having pure psionic engery controling the foe somewhat like Sister Psyche dues as well as Penelope yin
example:
Psionic Crush Ranged, DoT (Psionic), -Endurance(Foe), Hold(Foe)

Cedd66
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I think all control powers

I think all control powers should have a larger scoop and power boosts for example ther should be more people in one group u can effect instend of four how about 6 or 9 or even 10 and more damge to the contol powers . at least moderate damge add some high damge attacks at least one extreme damge or Superior

Cedd66
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Can you make a Bow Melee set

Can you make a Bow Melee set example haveing some bow melee attacks and have some range sets somewhat like in DCO they have a mixture between melee and range

Cedd66
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Metal Armor: New power set

Metal Armor: New power set where u use diffrent metals as def or res
Steel- Def
Copper-Res
Gold - Def
Silver -Def
Bronze -Res
Aluminiumim - Res
Cast Iron- Heal
Palisten- Def+Res all

TTheDDoctor
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Cedd66 wrote:
Cedd66 wrote:

Palisten- Def+Res all

I'm sorry, what is palisten?

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An alloy of tungsten and

An alloy of tungsten and palladium, perhaps?

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I'd prefer to see defensive

I'd prefer to see defensive qualities divorced from costume details.

Be Well!
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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

I'd prefer to see defensive qualities divorced from costume details.
Be Well!
Fireheart

That's the intention, though there may be certain limitations based on the theme of a power set. For example, it might not make sense to pair rifle animations with a whip melee set. And no, not comformation of a whip-shooting-rifle set, or a whip-flinging-rifle set either! ;)


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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
I'd prefer to see defensive qualities divorced from costume details.
Be Well!
Fireheart

That's the intention, though there may be certain limitations based on the theme of a power set. For example, it might not make sense to pair rifle animations with a whip melee set. And no, not comformation of a whip-shooting-rifle set, or a whip-flinging-rifle set either! ;)

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"Nope." *toss* *THUD*
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Cedd66
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a power like the impulse from

a power like the impulse from champions oline

syntaxerror37
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Beamrider wrote:
Beamrider wrote:

"Call me the GunFlinger"
"Don't you mean GunSlinger?"
"Nope." *toss* *THUD*
"Owww...."

As a side note, it might be cool if a street-thug minion type had an attack animation of firing his hand gun several times then throwing the gun at you in desperation when it failed to stop you.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Fireheart wrote:
I'd prefer to see defensive qualities divorced from costume details.
Be Well!
Fireheart

That's the intention, though there may be certain limitations based on the theme of a power set. For example, it might not make sense to pair rifle animations with a whip melee set. And no, not comformation of a whip-shooting-rifle set, or a whip-flinging-rifle set either! ;)

I think RWBY has proven that it can work ;)

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I just saw this footage

I just saw this footage looking at Black Dessert gameplay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2qUza1uwuc), and thought that it has a couple of things that would really rock in a basic "Super Strength" set in CoT.

One, the sounds and look/feel of the attacks are really physically powerful. Two, you can PICK UP THE OPPONENT AND SLAM THEM! Oh, every Superstrength user's dream.

Now I know size of opponent may seem a factor, but if necessary you could tag overly large opponents so that they are immune to the slam and just take damage.

HOWEVER, if I had a SS fighter and he picked up an over-sized opponent and slammed him, you'd have me forever. I might cry. Tears of joy.

And with flight you could just make it a -flight power that grounds them with the slam by hurling them to the ground.

I mean, that's some epic "woohooo" stuff right there. I'd be addicted forever.

Super strength is SOOOO iconic in the genre, really knocking it out of the park would go a long way for the game. No matter how many fancy powersets were released, you always saw lots of good ol' SS Heroes running around.

And you always will.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Super Speed has always been

Super Speed has always been my thing, but not just as a travel power but an advantage in battle.

The ability to hit someone with all the Gs you build up from a run. To run circles around someone and cause dizziness or to even kick up a small weather event like tornado. Oh, long before CW got The Flash I've always said the problem is Time... being able to get someplace in time to stop the danger so Super Speed would do it for me.

N.O.N.E.

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Two, you can PICK UP THE OPPONENT AND SLAM THEM! Oh, every Superstrength user's dream.
Now I know size of opponent may seem a factor, but if necessary you could tag overly large opponents so that they are immune to the slam and just take damage.

Um ... yeah ... about that ...

Any kind of "grapple" move is inherently problematic. Perhaps not impossible to do with UE4, but definitely problematic. If nothing else, implementation of grapple moves will require a suite of animations not only for the attacker but also for the $Target(s) involved. This is one of those things where you want to make sure you're on VERY firm ground in a technical sense before doing anything along these lines.


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TheMightyPaladin
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Wrestling/Judo

Wrestling/Judo

Grab (D.O.T. that immobilizes both attacker and victim)
Trip (Knockdown & Small Damage)
Shove (Knockback, possible knockdown, and more damage if the target is knocked down or pushed against a wall)
Slam (lift him up and throw him down, high damage and knockdown)
Swing (grab target and spin knocking back other opponents, then let him go to throw him)
Tackle (jump onto opponent (good Range, can be done from high places) knocking him down and causing medium damage)

I don't expect it at launch
that's totally OK
but it's something to look forward to.
some day maybe.

Empyrean
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Um ... yeah ... about that ...
Any kind of "grapple" move is inherently problematic. Perhaps not impossible to do with UE4, but definitely problematic. If nothing else, implementation of grapple moves will require a suite of animations not only for the attacker but also for the $Target(s) involved. This is one of those things where you want to make sure you're on VERY firm ground in a technical sense before doing anything along these lines.

Ok, that was awesome.

Well, if for some reason it's not doable or not worth the effort, so be it. But since a proprietary engine like the Black Desert engine was able to do it, I just thought it might not be beyond the realm of possibility for an engine that has been used for as many different things as the UE to pull it off.

There is generally one $Target animation for "knock" that is used with multiple animations for the attacker. This might be a little trickier, but if the "slam" animation was used with multiple attacker animations, it could open up a whole nother level of variety in animation for powers. Telekinesis. Gravity. Martial Arts.

But, I'm not a programmer, so it is quite possible that there is a distinction I'm missing here. Oh, and like Pal said, not necessarily at launch, but some day?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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I would love something like

I would love something like that! Only change it to various styles of throws! All one needs to do is turn on a fighting game to have all the ideas of throws we need!

Cedd66
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Disease comtrol and blast a

Disease comtrol and blast a power that makes their emeny lose there res alot of there res

TheMightyPaladin
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In COH, I thought the Martial

In COH, I thought the Martial arts animations were pretty bad at first but later when they introduced alternate animations for every power it was a big improvement.
One thing I'd like to see is the option to alternate between the 2 animations so there'd be more variety in the onscreen activity.

But the Jump kick animation was just awful
May I suggest a Jump kick that works more like the shield charge.You know moving us a good distance toward the target.

if you're seeing this for the second time it might be because I posted it somewhere else first, then decided this was a more appropriate place.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
Two, you can PICK UP THE OPPONENT AND SLAM THEM! Oh, every Superstrength user's dream.
Now I know size of opponent may seem a factor, but if necessary you could tag overly large opponents so that they are immune to the slam and just take damage.
Um ... yeah ... about that ...
Any kind of "grapple" move is inherently problematic. Perhaps not impossible to do with UE4, but definitely problematic. If nothing else, implementation of grapple moves will require a suite of animations not only for the attacker but also for the $Target(s) involved. This is one of those things where you want to make sure you're on VERY firm ground in a technical sense before doing anything along these lines.

Do you know how many times I used Air Superiority to knock down Eochai or the Zeus Titan? This whole "Oh, grappling powers are so problematic" argument is bogus. The ability to "throw" giant opponents down was already present in CoH/V from the very beginning

Lay your hands on me
While I'm bleeding dry
Break on through blue skies
And take it high

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One thing I would suggest is

One thing I would suggest is that you not try to "standardize" the timing of all ranged blast powers. It was one of the most immersion breaking adjustments that the CoH/V devs ever did

Ideally, some of these powers should have a unique "feel" to them. Some should be quicker, others should take longer to load up. It's the DPS that needs to be the same for all the powers. Not the activation times

Lay your hands on me
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Break on through blue skies
And take it high

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HornetsNest wrote:
HornetsNest wrote:

Ideally, some of these powers should have a unique "feel" to them. Some should be quicker, others should take longer to load up. It's the DPS that needs to be the same for all the powers. Not the activation times

So The slower powers should cause more damage?
I think that can work.

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I always loved gadgets, but I

I always loved gadgets, but I wanted something more from it, something like a cross between a "Blaster" and "Mastermind", I would call it,.............(wait for it)

Master Blaster
~ Starts off like a Blaster, but when you get your pet, you only get one.
~ A pet like a robot dog (optional), you can make him Attack, Hold, Immobilize, Protect, First Aid, and Stay.
~ A pet like a drone, you can make it Attack, Hold, Cloak, First Aid, Self Destruct, and it can even have a camera on it so you can see what it see's via a small window that you can click to make bigger (use it to find bosses or hostages).

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Sounds like an Artificer from

Sounds like an Artificer from Dungeons & Dragons Online

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TheMightyPaladin wrote:
TheMightyPaladin wrote:

HornetsNest wrote:
Ideally, some of these powers should have a unique "feel" to them. Some should be quicker, others should take longer to load up. It's the DPS that needs to be the same for all the powers. Not the activation times

So The slower powers should cause more damage?
I think that can work.

There was a reason for the standardization, particular the first few powers as it had an effect on the Blaster inherent power. In order to equalize performance so that there wasn't always a clear "better" choice in how the inherent stacked buffs or worked when the blaster was mezzed, the devs had to have a standard of animation times.

There is also a reason for standard animation times in general for performance reasons for all types of power sets, including ranged velocity of the projectile animation. But the way we have set up our inherent systems that work on increasing buffs like stacks or a meter is that each power set is adjustable to provide equitable performance gains in how it gains momentum which is our gauge for such improving effects.


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NightProwl wrote:
NightProwl wrote:

Master Blaster

Especially appropriate if you can ride your dog while carrying your drone.

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Pengy wrote:
Pengy wrote:

NightProwl wrote:
Master Blaster
Especially appropriate if you can ride your dog while carrying your drone.

Riding your pet can be an option if you had a dragon, horse, or Bear as one of your pets. Who knows, maybe your pet can also be your travel power in the game. The pets can be the second power for your Master Blaster Archetype, the first thing you would get is the pet, then the abilities will come next, (maybe riding will be one of the powers to choose from).

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NightProwl wrote:
NightProwl wrote:

Pengy wrote:
NightProwl wrote:
Master Blaster

Especially appropriate if you can ride your dog while carrying your drone.

Riding your pet can be an option if you had a dragon, horse, or Bear as one of your pets. Who knows, maybe your pet can also be your travel power in the game. The pets can be the second power for your Master Blaster Archetype, the first thing you would get is the pet, then the abilities will come next, (maybe riding will be one of the powers to choose from).

A Halfling dog archer!

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I also had an idea for a bad

I also had an idea for a bad group, that I'm sure the powers that they have can be used for a power selection.
Mix Masters is the name of the group, they are kinda of like the "Freak Show", but they are a Hip Hop Gang.

MIX MASTERS
~ Powers consist of "Sonic", "Endurance Drain", "Intimidate", "Crowd Control", "Smash", and "Stun"

DJ's ~ Controls the music, and if your in the PBAOE range of the music, your character starts to dance periodically. ( It acts like a hold, and it drains minor endurance ). once the Dj's set is up, they are not mobile.

Beat Boxers ~ Carry the "Boom Boxes", the range is AOE, once the boom box is set on the ground, it's On! Beat Boxers carries all types of boom boxes, some go BOOM! (Smash/Fear), some with sonic waves (Sonic damage/Endurance Drain), and some with (Resist Debuff/Hold). All Boom Boxes drains power from you, and gives it to them, when your in range.

MC's ~ Controls the crowds that's around them, the range is PBAOE, (If you kill the MC, the crowd will go nuts and want "Vengeance"), ~hint ~hint

BOUNCER's ~ They protect the MC's and DJ's, I guess you can say they are "Tankers", Bouncers use (Smash/Intimidate), ( Beware, Bouncers can get buffs from the DJ and the Boom Boxes ), don't get caught dancing.

FLASHER's ~ Some people in the crowd can't hold back, range Cone, ( Don't get caught LQQKing ).

"REMIXX", ~ The Leader, armor is chrome made with parts of the DJ table, Boom Boxes, and Fixtures with Lasers Lights.

~Arsenals:
1: Arm Canon, shoots razer sharp compact discs, as well laser lights to stun his enemies.
2: Shoulder Bazooka Canons, blast you with sonic waves.
3: Chest Plate Speakers, to control the mob that's around him.
4: Tweaker Grenades, a high pitch sound and light show that will stun you.
5: Leech, with all of his hardware melee players with feel the drain.
6: Oncore, it's not over, he's back for more.
7: Bringing Down the House, it ain't over until the rhythm of the beat goes nova!

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I had some recent inspiration

I had some recent inspiration for an attack/support powerset similar to Dual Pistols. I envision it as a venom-themed powerset that would be based on using various venoms in combination. It would work something like this...

Name Description
Catalyzing Venom (CV) Your attacks deal 50% damage and afflict your enemies with 8s of Catalyzing Venom which enhances the damage and/or duration of your venoms per stack.
Deadly Venom Your attacks deal 100% damage and can afflict your enemies with Deadly Venom (+3s / CV) which deals damage-over-time. Only targets with stacks of Catalyzing Venom receive damage-over-time.
Crippling Venom Your attacks deal 50% (+5% / CV) damage and afflict your enemies with 3s (+4s / CV) of Crippling Venom which reduces an enemy's movement and recharge speeds per stack.
Enfeebling Venom Your attacks deal 50% (+5% / CV) damage and afflict your enemies with 3s (+4s / CV) of Enfeebling Venom which reduces an enemy's damage output per stack.
Lifeblood Venom Your attacks deal 50% (+5% / CV) damage and afflict your enemies with 3s (+4s / CV) of Lifeblood Venom which causes allies to be healed for a percentage of damage they deal to the target per stack.

You can focus on either damage or support, but either way, you need to switch between Catalyzing Venom and the other venoms to maximize their effects. More stacks of Catalyzing Venom on your foe means longer debuffs and more damage, but that concern has to be balanced against actually dealing damage and debuffs. You would face constant damage/debuff tradeoffs.

Attack-wise, animation times would be low to help spread venoms. I'd also like a big attack that deals two stacks of venom with each strike instead of one. A couple AoE's would be nice, too. Switching venoms would be instantaneous. Deadly Venom would be the default/inherent venom with the others rolled into a "Swap Ammo" type of power.

I suppose it should only count your own Catalyzing Venom to ensure venoms can't get too crazy. I'm also not sure if this would be better as a melee or ranged attack set. Maybe an assault/mix set like Dominators had? I don't know.

It might be too complex and twitchy and busy, but...there it is. :P

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HornetsNest wrote:
HornetsNest wrote:

Do you know how many times I used Air Superiority to knock down Eochai or the Zeus Titan? This whole "Oh, grappling powers are so problematic" argument is bogus. The ability to "throw" giant opponents down was already present in CoH/V from the very beginning.

There's a difference between a "grapple" attack and a knockdown/knockback/knockup attack. Air Superiority was a 100% chance of a KnockUP, as you can see for yourself at the link I've provided.

Quote:

0.75 Knockup

Eochai, the Zeus Titan, Fake Nemesis and a whole host of other hostiles didn't have any meaningful protection against Knock attacks ... meaning that the "bounce you" effect of Air Superiority was effective against them.

However, none of this changes the fact that Air Superiority did not animate as a grapple. It was not in any way, shape or form a "grab you" kind of move. Instead, it was the "Starfleet Two-handed Overhead Clobber™" familiar to anyone who has ever watched Captain Kirk fight.

Granted, the results of the power often looked like some kind of "judo throw" maneuver, and it was often RPed as being such, but it wasn't a "true" grapple attack where you grab onto something and HEAVE it around.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

HornetsNest wrote:
Do you know how many times I used Air Superiority to knock down Eochai or the Zeus Titan? This whole "Oh, grappling powers are so problematic" argument is bogus. The ability to "throw" giant opponents down was already present in CoH/V from the very beginning.
There's a difference between a "grapple" attack and a knockdown/knockback/knockup attack. Air Superiority was a 100% chance of a KnockUP, as you can see for yourself at the link I've provided.
Quote:
0.75 Knockup

Eochai, the Zeus Titan, Fake Nemesis and a whole host of other hostiles didn't have any meaningful protection against Knock attacks ... meaning that the "bounce you" effect of Air Superiority was effective against them.
However, none of this changes the fact that Air Superiority did not animate as a grapple. It was not in any way, shape or form a "grab you" kind of move. Instead, it was the "Starfleet Two-handed Overhead Clobber™" familiar to anyone who has ever watched Captain Kirk fight.
Granted, the results of the power often looked like some kind of "judo throw" maneuver, and it was often RPed as being such, but it wasn't a "true" grapple attack where you grab onto something and HEAVE it around.

Well, ok, fair enough, but I don't have a problem with a "well-faked" grapple attack. What I mean is that there were a lot of things in CoH that were "well faked" rather than properly done due to engine limitations. If it ends up fun to use, I don't care :).

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Well, ok, fair enough, but I don't have a problem with a "well-faked" grapple attack. What I mean is that there were a lot of things in CoH that were "well faked" rather than properly done due to engine limitations. If it ends up fun to use, I don't care :).

That's pretty much the same thing I was saying about nunchaku
It doesn't have to be as complicated as you guys are making it
We'll just be excited as heck for it to work at all.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
Two, you can PICK UP THE OPPONENT AND SLAM THEM! Oh, every Superstrength user's dream.
Now I know size of opponent may seem a factor, but if necessary you could tag overly large opponents so that they are immune to the slam and just take damage.
Um ... yeah ... about that ...
Any kind of "grapple" move is inherently problematic. Perhaps not impossible to do with UE4, but definitely problematic. If nothing else, implementation of grapple moves will require a suite of animations not only for the attacker but also for the $Target(s) involved. This is one of those things where you want to make sure you're on VERY firm ground in a technical sense before doing anything along these lines.

How about this,

"GRAPPLE"

1: Grapple is used for travel ~ ( teleport / hover, with a bit of new animations).
2: Grapple connection to the player ~ ( electrical / magnetic link, can be seen as a wireless electrical cable ).
3: Grapple AOE ~ target grapple on the floor, under the bad guys.
~ bad guys standing in water, electrical damage.
~ bad guys standing on dry ground, explosion damage.
~ bad guys standing in oil, fire damage
4: Grapple Control ~ attach grapple to target, send wireless electrical charge to confuse target, ( target kill his own men ).
5: Grapple ~ range single target, Knockdown.
6: Grapple Stun ~ range single target, if target it too heavy to be pulled, target get Stunned.
7: Grapple Return ~ range single target, ( pulls light weight targets, animate with a punch or kick ).
8: Grapple Smash ~ Cone range, grapple opens all the way, spins like a fan, and launched at target.
9: G Flash ~ range single target PBAOE, grapple attached to target, activate high powered LED lights, ( Flash Bang ).
10: Grapple Detonation ~ range single target PBAOE, grapple attached to target, detonate ( electrical fire / smash explosion )

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syntaxerror37 wrote:
syntaxerror37 wrote:

Beamrider wrote:
"Call me the GunFlinger"
"Don't you mean GunSlinger?"
"Nope." *toss* *THUD*
"Owww...."

As a side note, it might be cool if a street-thug minion type had an attack animation of firing his hand gun several times then throwing the gun at you in desperation when it failed to stop you.

That's the whole point of the GunFlinger. Even Superman, who takes bullets to the chest, ducks when they throw the empty gun at him. So thrown guns must HURT! :-)

Composition Team

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Magma manipulation

Magma manipulation

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Well with this comment I will

Well with this comment I will try to cover as best as I can, what I imagined and varies powers, so if something doesn't come clear let me know, or if you don't understand what I mean let me know... English is not my native language, so it won't be perfect.

WEATHER MANIPULATION

So weather manipulation is one of the most requested powers as I saw, and it's in my top on first spot, because who wouldn't like to control the damn weather? It makes you feel powerful, it makes feel that you hold power over any human, and it's the power which my most favorite heroine had!

So I imagine Weather Manipulation, more like a blast damage over time power, which takes down the life of your enemies and in the mean time keeps them at place. A balance between those two, I believe would be the perfect hit.

For a basic power (brawl, melee etc...) I would go for something from the range variety... because Weather Manipulation is power which gives you control over the very weather. Now I would like it to be vast, covering the whole in game environment (player only), because this is the way to make you feel powerful, while you have this arsenal in your hands. For basic power I will go for Lightning Bolt/Lightning, which comes from the sky, making your screen to go slightly dark or flash, and of course striking you from above with powerful glowing blue color and real thunderous sound, not something like zap, zap, zap; but something like very powerful lightning/thundering bolt blast, which can make the very ground to shake with it's immense deaf sound. Striking your enemies from above with a smite, would most likely effect and the enemies around making it very small area power, speaking for something like 1 meter or two, around the main target, where the rest of the enemies will be just zapped or stunned or they can take just some damage.

The second basic power which I would suggest is for short to medium range, a blast of wind in a cone like look. Pushing enemies back and successfully reflecting any beam/ball like power, speaking for something like fireball, fire funnel, blast of constant fire, ice ball, something which have at least some wide mass and can be pushed back, while sharp attacks like bullets, ice spears, ice spikes, small telekinetic balls etc can't be reflected.

For the special powers itself, which will consume energy/mana etc... I would suggest something of Vast Area... Like summoning a real Dark Lightning Storm, which spinning right above your head, showing that you are the center of this storm and that you are the one who conquer it, of course it will spread throughout the neighborhood, not throughout the whole town, where the concentrate area will be around you, 10 meters around you.... lightnings will be see-able in the far distance, but they will be there just for the natural effect, not for the damaging purpose of your targets. The impact which it will have on enemies I will go with something like striking them with powerful hit, stunning than and dealing burning electrical damage which continues as damage per second for couple of seconds... increasing the effect if something like Rain have been summon before that..

When you conquer a Snow Storm (or Hail Blizzard) You do make sure to conquer one for real... again spreading through the neighborhood/town, but the real area being around you, between 10-15 meters around you... with real huge and sharp ice chunks dropping on top of your enemies and you (of course you being naturally protected by it), which can do real damage, not some snowflakes... because I've seen that... saying hail storm, but instead that you actually have snowflakes... as far for the effect which it will have on enemies, I would make it something like slowing/chilling your enemies and damaging them heavily... because we are talking for hail blizzard... as far for the upgrade I will suggest the first level starting with snowflakes for real, but as you progress they slowly turn into ice balls and then into big sharp, heavy chunks...

Fog... this power will be hard to be done, because it will play big thing on your processor and video card... but if it's done correctly with not overdoing it and concentrated only over your character, I think it's possible... again we will have this vast area of covering, but the real covering is actually happening within this small range... I would suggest something like, when you summon a fog, you confuse your enemies, making them fight among themselves... or you become invisible for small amount of time, until your skill last or until your energy/mana runs out completely...

Rain, it's very misinterpreted power, most of the people think "What the hell, rain can do?" or "I will just get soak it's not big deal", yea but if Rain is combined with cold wind, which is under zero, you will become a ice statue... or if there is lightning storm going on in the mean time, can you imagine what will happen if lightning strikes you down the way you are soaked... you will burn... like literally burn to a crisp... in a matter of 2 seconds or less... as far for the impact which it will have on enemies I would make it something like a power which is there to buff up the damage or the frozen (paralyzed) duration of the enemies... for example if the frozen effect lasts for 10 seconds normally, the rain will make it last for 20 seconds... basically a buff for damage and effects on the other powers to which can help... there is another possibility to be something like healing spell... make it rain and it heals X amount for Y seconds... because water have always represented a healing capability. If I where on your spot I would go with both... buff and heal! Would be cool if there is such effect, like if it's cast upon building on fire, will slowly put off the fires in the building... you know...

Tornado... and I am talking here for a real F5 tornado... of course a tornado will take most likely time to be conquered to it's full power like 10-20 seconds... slowly forming the winds and bending them to form a funnel which raise up to the sky and makes the very heaven to swirl around... as far for the effect on enemies I would highly suggest high sucking in power, which gathers your enemies, swirls them around in the funnel, until the power last, of course the power should be a hold button power which takes X amount of your energy/mana per second which can keep it lasting for good amount of time 30 sec may be, going up to 60 sec (1 min) at maximum level may be more. It will be really cool if you can add random flying objects around the funnel once it gathers speed, like dust, leafs, antennas, small receiving satellites for extra channels on the TV, garbage can and stuff like that as a whole. Swirling around and with their help causing even greater damage.

Heat/Cold Wave, a blast from the player character body, which spreads in area of like 10-15 meters... one freezes enemies (just slowing them down at low levels) and the second heat wave, blast enemies with a powerful high pitched temperature, putting them in a burn state, causing enemies to enter in shock moment which makes them run around, while in the mean time does damage per second... putting the very ground on fire... so you can add this more powerful feeling in the power... putting down fires, melting down frozen objects, people, land etc.

As for Passives, I will go for something like:

Skyholder (Natural Immunity to weather effects, like if you make it cold, your body can't get cold, because your body radiates the opposite, heat), Elemental Resistance (It's speaks for itself), Meditation State while using your powers (restoring small amount of energy/mana, while you keep a power up, but not so powerful to outdo the cost, but enough to keep it lasting for a lot longer time. Example X power takes 7 energy/mana per second, the power restores 5 energy/mana per second)

I would like to put aside the usual boring and repeating powers connecting with electricity, like chain of lightning or something like that... I think we have plenty of games even such for not superheroes/super villains games... and I've seen plenty of them...

^^^ This is one of the powers which I have in mind and what I've imagined, feel free to fix something which you don't like or suggest something to improve my suggestions and I hope was clear enough!

Heh I will keep working on that, but I don't have access to the game to test so I can't really suggest video effects and power effects without actually testing them my self, and I know from personal experience, that I am good at that. (Half of the powers in Marvel Heroes Online for Storm where based upon my suggestions, some of the powers for Human Torch where once again based on my suggestions mainly.) <- And no, I can assure you this is not self ad for my self, just explaining you why I can't give better suggestions.

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I liked the kinetic powerset

I liked the kinetic powerset from coh, just being able to run up to someone and see them fly backwards was much enjoyable to me.

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One of the really fun

One of the really fun elements in CoH was the targetable oil spill (from Trickshot?) anyone could set of fire, if they had a fire skill that is... I'm curious if any really dynamic interactive characteristics (combos sort of) are being considered across skill sets/power types.

"Don't cross the streams!!!"

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Beeker wrote:
Beeker wrote:

One of the really fun elements in CoH was the targetable oil spill (from Trickshot?) anyone could set of fire, if they had a fire skill that is... I'm curious if any really dynamic interactive characteristics (combos sort of) are being considered across skill sets/power types.
"Don't cross the streams!!!"

Yes.

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"Preliminary optimization is the root of all evil." -Knuth
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a.k.a. Mr Sigma, Mr. Stochastic, Balancing Act, The Oncoming Storm

Kiyori Anoyui
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Pretty much any power in The

Pretty much any power in The Last airbender is what I would like to see(I know earth and fire are available but water,air, boomerAANG). Around the end of CoH there were rumors going around of the ability to control water and I was so happy :) But it never came ='( It would be cool to have a water whip and then send a rush of water to freeze multiple opponents

Also it would be really cool to have an air power set. I know there was gust and a few small things like that. But a whole arsenal of air style fighting would be sweet.

And lastly, boomerangs.... always <3

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Around the end of CoH there were rumors going around of the ability to control water and I was so happy :) But it never came ='( It would be cool to have a water whip and then send a rush of water to freeze multiple opponents
Also it would be really cool to have an air power set. I know there was gust and a few small things like that. But a whole arsenal of air style fighting would be sweet.

Like how?
Is it like how Legend of Korra did it?

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That's CoH themed set

That's old-school CoH themed powerset thinking.

Get way more mileage by making it a generic control set that moves the opponent in various ways and then give different animation options that allow it to be air/telekenesis/magnetism/gravity etc. control.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Like how?
Is it like how Legend of Korra did it?

Alot like that, where there could be a mixture of close combat moves but also like a ranged air snipe kind of like combustion man. Also the gust style moves. With all the talk about how the animations will be divorced from the actual weapons themselves, it would play really well if you wanted to make a toon like Aang. You could use a staff as a point of emanation to create the air.

Also one of the final moves could be like in the bottom picture you posted, sort of like the shield charge in CoH, where you jump in and smash the crowd with a blast of air

Empyrean wrote:

That's old-school CoH themed powerset thinking.
Get way more mileage by making it a generic control set that moves the opponent in various ways and then give different animation options that allow it to be air/telekenesis/magnetism/gravity etc. control.

That's a really good point, it would definitely make the animators job a lot easier!

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I'd like a power hat works

I'd like a power hat works like Link's Hookshot.
Batman and Rorschach both have had versions of it and it fits a lot of characters.

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Alot like that, where there could be a mixture of close combat moves but also like a ranged air snipe kind of like combustion man. Also the gust style moves. With all the talk about how the animations will be divorced from the actual weapons themselves, it would play really well if you wanted to make a toon like Aang. You could use a staff as a point of emanation to create the air.

For so,ething like that you have a couple of possibilities:
Use a ranged primary or secondary set and a melee tertiary
Use a melee primary or secondary set and a ranged tertiary
Wait until the Assault Sets are released which combine melee and ranged attacks within the set itself.

Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Also one of the final moves could be like in the bottom picture you posted, sort of like the shield charge in CoH, where you jump in and smash the crowd with a blast of air

Not many sets will have this, but you will find this in a lunge attack. Most easily located in a Combat a Mobility Tertiary anyone can have the ability to access.

TheMightyPaladin wrote:

I'd like a power hat works like Link's Hookshot.
Batman and Rorschach both have had versions of it and it fits a lot of characters.

Also something that should be found in the Combat Mobility tertiary if you want to pull foes to you for an attack.
If you are looking for a mode of travel, we do plan on a Grapnel line animation for our Swinging / Zipline travel power.


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yay

yay
I was thinking of a travel power, but I wouldn't mind a combat application also.
Like Scorpion from Mortal Combat.

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Tannim222 wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

For so,ething like that you have a couple of possibilities:
Use a ranged primary or secondary set and a melee tertiary
Use a melee primary or secondary set and a ranged tertiary
Wait until the Assault Sets are released which combine melee and ranged attacks within the set itself.

Not many sets will have this, but you will find this in a lunge attack. Most easily located in a Combat a Mobility Tertiary anyone can have the ability to access.

Thanks for the info! So it would seem that there's going to be a wide range of options so you can mix and mash powers/sets. Going back to what said, it would then probably make sense to make a certain attack and then just recycle the animation with different effects (air,telekinesis, etc)

Another cool application of air combat would be an air slice, like Temari in Naruto(so much air power that it slices) as well as block attacks with air power as well. This could even go so far as having an air aura that helps deflect attacks or minimize damage sort of like Invulnerability

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Power systems and mechanics

Power systems and mechanics intrigue me because of the long term planning/effects. The expansion of power availability and customization towards the end of the game were hugely refreshing after years of a bit of tedium - but, as was part of the game balance design, you couldn't do much to change the experience of your powers (only cosmetically).

I've wondered about long term mechanics that affect power performance based on character and account longevity (similar to the loyalty rewards). For example, if you could play one hour a day, 5 days a week, less some days for holiday or time, you could put in 250 hours a year. What if at 325 hours, your *tier 1* powers/character had a recharge reduction of 1%, then after 550 hours, your *tier 1-4* powers had a 2% rech reduction applied, etc etc...

My time scales are ballparks, but the idea is to reward player loyalty with a system built not to exploit the grind for subscriptions, but to reward the subscriptions by shaving the grind. Most everyone I knew in COH was an altoholic, but even then there times you just couldn't bear to roll another toon and slog through the xp curve, even with the accumulated wisdom of how to meet the curve based on years of intense player focus on doing just that.

I could see a similar long-term mechanic being applied towards mob encounters, where there is a starting formula for encountering a tier of foe that is systematically reduced over extended play time, at a reasonable scale. The thinking is that the more time you put in, the tougher and more skilled you become, so that the cost of defeating a minion-level foe at player-level 2 is perceivably reduced by level cap.

CoH had layers and layers of scaling applied to various systems and encounters so there is probably precedent beyond what sleuthing ive done.

What do you all think?

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I'm not sure, the basic

I'm not sure, the basic concept seem workable but the details needs to be more thought out.

First of is that there needs to more/other bonuses than just recharge reduction since a lot of the "tedious grind" ime was not in the combat (unless you soloed a defender/troller) but rather the traveling between missions, especially when you needed to sell off enchantments and wanted the most out of them. There is also the point where more recharge reduction won't do much good since your resource regeneration won't be able to keep up.

Also, I'm not sure that tying such a system only into played time will be that good. I seem to recall that they have mentioned that buffs from some achievements (like the passive health/end ones) will be account wide. I think that is a good idea and that it should also extend to seasonal events (that are truly repeatable each year) to a certain extent.

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Game link pls

Game link pls

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Agreed - but starting from

Agreed - but starting from the general and moving towards the specific is part of any design process. A broad design question should first be answered with a broad solution, then picked apart.

There are so many things to balance, but in the end time is what matters most. Time is how the game would make any money. Time how players would consume content. Time is how development occurs. Time is usually measurable against the XP curve, so thinking about that long term I'd love to see it go from a kind of S-curve (new player) to an evened out convex arc (long term player).

I focused on recharge time for powers because this is something every single player would have access to at any point in the game/play history and would be a tangible reward that could be scaled to integrate with other systems balancing (especially economics).

I don't have the connection clear in my mind yet, but I see this as also tying into the economics/currencies - the mish mash of currency streams, conversions, XP typs etc at the end of COH was a huge mess. I started playing CoH when there was just influence and SO (apart from Hami-Os) as loot and the game experience was much smoother overall. Less to *just* manage, which goes back to time- how much time should players with different play-histories be spending on what activities? While a dev team can position new features and loot as 'not gamebreaking or necessary for gameplay' that belies an understanding of user experience, in which a 'full' game experience can be lacking for want of desire. That is a little more complicated subject though.

In terms of details, its the scaling factor over time that is most important. Then what factors are mapped for tiers of powers. Then how these bonuses are factored into encounter-math. Then how this is promotable as a passive player reward system - I think these should be in place from the get go. Its not like the MMO is new territory here and also much less popular than in the past (from what I can tell, please correct if wrong) so I think the game should start with some value propositions to players - the longer you play, the more times you've seen standing content, the more you've participated in the development of the game as world and product, the more you deserve to have your time acknowledged and rewarded. My assumption is that providing marginal but cumulative increases in player agency/action over time is part of that.

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So... you are saying that

So... you are saying that there should be a system that gives permanent rewards the longer one is active with the game? To me it wasn't really a question of if such a system should be in but rather how such a system could be implemented.

This kind of system would be, imo, part of (but not exclusive to) the overall end-game progression system. MWM has the opportunity here to design it from the ground up in a way that effectively removes the need to tack on something else later on in the games life (like IO's and incarnate stuff essentially was).

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Yes - how it should be

Yes - how it should be implemented is right from the start, and I agree, not frankensteined on to cap-content like a majority of the loyalty reward systems were in CoH.

But my position is that where the rewards is targeted is what matters. Powers will always be a major source of action/player agency and so thats a main feature to reward - not the only one and not without considerable consideration for the impact. The bigger question is the scaling of all effects.

-----

Another way to approach this would be to provide bonuses based on quantity of defeats of certain mobs or baddies - the goal, again, is to reflect the experiece of players over time and provide grind relief. In this case, lets say you receive a badge for defeating a certain quantity of a certain group of foes. At each level of achievement, another bonus is applied to your powers but only when targeting that faction. Example:

badge 1 - defeat 100 group_foes
reward: no reward

badge 2 - defeat 250 group_foes
reward 2 - 1% rech reduction when target is group_foes

bade 3 - defeat 500 group_foes
reward 3 - 1% end cost reduction when target is group_foes

badge 4 - defeat 750 group_foes
reward 4 - 1% +dam when target is group_foes

badge 5 - defeat 1250 group_foes
reward: 1% def when target is group_foes

badge 6 - defeat 2500 group_foes
reward: +4% def, dam, rech reduc, end cost red when target is group_foes

end result: after _______ hours of game play at ______$ cost to player/subscriber, this badge rewards a 5% bonus to damage, defense, recharge rate and endurance cost specific to this foe group.

------

Again the big goal is to reward player loyalty by reducing the tedium of grind. Even if game balance (between player experiences) depends on power values being fixed (though I wonder about that...) this badge system limits the bonuses to a very specific context so that the bonuses aren't contextually global. This also has an RP element attached because it ties to specific foe groups and so their contexts which restores a bit of player agency.

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alluvion wrote:
alluvion wrote:

....contexts which restores a bit of player agency.

Ewww, someone used Agency, outside of a Talent Search studio. Bad! Bad!! :{
Just use Effectivity: `If/How much a player is Effectively making a noticeable Difference/Influence in the game world.` ;D

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

alluvion wrote:
....contexts which restores a bit of player agency.
Ewww, someone used Agency, outside of a Talent Search studio. Bad! Bad!! :{
Just use Effectivity: `If/How much a player is Effectively making a noticeable Difference/Influence in the game world.` ;D

Actually, agency in regards to games is fairly important since it stands for how much control/choice one has inside the game, though I have to admit that thinking a bit more on it this is not about agency but rather about combat effectiveness.

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alluvion wrote:
alluvion wrote:

badge 1 - defeat 100 group_foes
reward: no reward
badge 2 - defeat 250 group_foes
reward 2 - 1% rech reduction when target is group_foes
bade 3 - defeat 500 group_foes
reward 3 - 1% end cost reduction when target is group_foes
badge 4 - defeat 750 group_foes
reward 4 - 1% +dam when target is group_foes
badge 5 - defeat 1250 group_foes
reward: 1% def when target is group_foes
badge 6 - defeat 2500 group_foes
reward: +4% def, dam, rech reduc, end cost red when target is group_foes
end result: after _______ hours of game play at ______$ cost to player/subscriber, this badge rewards a 5% bonus to damage, defense, recharge rate and endurance cost specific to this foe group.

I am not in favor of giving Power Creep to people who grind a lot or to people who AFK a lot.

Actually, just put me down as not being in favor of Power Creep in general.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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How about:

How about:

badge 1 - defeat 100 group_foes
reward: no reward

badge 2 - defeat 250 group_foes
reward: unlocks battle cry slot used when facing this group

bade 3 - defeat 500 group_foes
reward: unlocks emote proc slot used when taunting this group

badge 4 - defeat 750 group_foes
reward: unlocks proc that occasionally causes foes of this group to utter additional complaints.

badge 5 - defeat 1250 group_foes
reward: members of this group now use rock-paper-scissors to determine which of them has to deal with you first.

badge 6 - defeat 2500 group_foes
reward: badge 4 now procs at 100%; foes refer to player as "hax" and several less savory terms.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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I like it.

I like it.

Badge 7 - defeat 5000 group_foes
Reward: Unlocks x-ray specs that allow PC to see members of this group in their underwear.

- - - - -
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islandtrevor72
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Personally I think loyalty

Personally I think loyalty rewards should always be cosmetic/QoL. Its one of the few times I will agree with Red but power creep is bad for the games long term life. Even micro transactions should follow this guideline. Even a new powerset or 'class' (for lack of a better term) should not offer an advantage over existing ones beyond variety. I am not even fond of xp multipliers....but I understand that they are more directed towards the 'short term' player and not the dedicated player, as in get more money from those who won't be around long anyway.

I am not sure...but did I not read somewhere that loyalty rewards were going to be in the form of hero bucks for use in the cash store? Too lazy to search right now so take this with a grain of doubt.

Tannim222
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Nothing is concrete in so far

Nothing is concrete in so far as loyalty rewards or how subscriptions will be handled. There are ideas. One of which is to give subscribers a stipend of STARS (our cash shop currency) every month.
There are other ideas for loyalty rewards, most of which avoid having anything to do with having any direct impact on game play.

As for the ideas of grinding spawns for badges, we will have an system for Achievements and Challenges. Some of those achievements will be earning badges for defeating certain types of factions. It hasn't been detailed yet as to if there are to be badges for every single faction in the game, or just the ones with sufficient level spans and spawnings to either be easy to get or harder to pin down. These badges would most likely avoid providing any statistical advantage toward factions in particular. Again, this isn't concrete, but the reasoning is that there may be certain other systems that connect with the badge system to provide this type of benefit. We're quite a ways off from those conceptual systems however, so where we end up may look different from where we want to go with design.

One thing to keep in mind with any faction based defeat badges, is that nearly every faction (I hesitate to say all) will have oppossing factions which will be quite pleased with the character that is actively culling the ranks of those they dislike or see as competition. To that end, defeating spawns and completing challenges related to factions will result in a net benefit with another faction. So in a way, there are already planned for rewards for defeating spawns of particular factions.


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islandtrevor72
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STARS....right...could not

STARS....right...could not for the life of me remember what it was called.....and I am very happy to hear that loyalty rewards will be treated this way.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

alluvion wrote:
badge 1 - defeat 100 group_foes
reward: no reward
badge 2 - defeat 250 group_foes
reward 2 - 1% rech reduction when target is group_foes
bade 3 - defeat 500 group_foes
reward 3 - 1% end cost reduction when target is group_foes
badge 4 - defeat 750 group_foes
reward 4 - 1% +dam when target is group_foes
badge 5 - defeat 1250 group_foes
reward: 1% def when target is group_foes
badge 6 - defeat 2500 group_foes
reward: +4% def, dam, rech reduc, end cost red when target is group_foes
end result: after _______ hours of game play at ______$ cost to player/subscriber, this badge rewards a 5% bonus to damage, defense, recharge rate and endurance cost specific to this foe group.

I am not in favor of giving Power Creep to people who grind a lot or to people who AFK a lot.
Actually, just put me down as not being in favor of Power Creep in general.

I agree with Redlynne. I could come up with half a dozen exploits for such a system without even trying. Especially if the bonus applied across my account to every character.

Much better, I think, to enhance replayability through new narratives and maps. Let Veteran bonuses remain indirect rather than single, account wide improvements. For example, the temp powers and pets that CoX used were very helpful, moderately useful, greatly simplified the 1-20 leveling process, and some of them were even good enough to use through the life of a character, even though none of them were game-breaking or even game-stretching. Better something like an easily killed pet with +.05 to attack than a blanket +.05 to all attacks on all characters across the account. Much better in my opinion.

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Greyhawk
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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

One thing to keep in mind with any faction based defeat badges, is that nearly every faction (I hesitate to say all) will have oppossing factions which will be quite pleased with the character that is actively culling the ranks of those they dislike or see as competition. To that end, defeating spawns and completing challenges related to factions will result in a net benefit with another faction. So in a way, there are already planned for rewards for defeating spawns of particular factions.

Yes. Now this I like. Very much. It is one of the features I am greatly looking forward to. A dozen different alts with a dozen different alliance networks. That's the kind of thing that greatly enhances replayability for someone like me.

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Cedd66
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zyric
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I would like to see a shape

I would like to see a shape shifting powerset. I kind of like the way LOTRO does their Beorning. Where the human form builds up rage that is used in the bear form to power their attacks, but I also like the way COH did their Peacebrings and Warshades. I guess what it boils down to is I would like to see a power set that changes the available powers and strengths & weakness based on the form you are currently in.

Lin Chiao Feng
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zyric wrote:
zyric wrote:

I would like to see a shape shifting powerset. I kind of like the way LOTRO does their Beorning. Where the human form builds up rage that is used in the bear form to power their attacks, but I also like the way COH did their Peacebrings and Warshades. I guess what it boils down to is I would like to see a power set that changes the available powers and strengths & weakness based on the form you are currently in.

Sounds more like a "mode-switching" mechanic paired with a "shape-shifting" aesthetic...

An example of a mode-switching-but-not-much-aesthetic-switching mechanic in City of Heroes would be the multi-mode Dual Pistols power set. And unlike Kheldians, you could choose your other power set.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

blacke4dawn
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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

zyric wrote:
I would like to see a shape shifting powerset. I kind of like the way LOTRO does their Beorning. Where the human form builds up rage that is used in the bear form to power their attacks, but I also like the way COH did their Peacebrings and Warshades. I guess what it boils down to is I would like to see a power set that changes the available powers and strengths & weakness based on the form you are currently in.
Sounds more like a "mode-switching" mechanic paired with a "shape-shifting" aesthetic...
An example of a mode-switching-but-not-much-aesthetic-switching mechanic in City of Heroes would be the multi-mode Dual Pistols power set. And unlike Kheldians, you could choose your other power set.

That's a good way to put it, "mode switching", and is probably the closest MWM should go in relation to "shapeshifting" since otherwise it'll probably become too "restrictive" when viewed against their design philosophy.

Of course, limiting mode switching only to secondary effects would be pretty limiting so being able to extend it to also affect range (melee<->ranged), target amount (single<->AoE) and target type (offensive<->defensive) would be preferable. Though if they extend it to that then I think it needs a significant CD.

zyric
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
zyric wrote:
I would like to see a shape shifting powerset. I kind of like the way LOTRO does their Beorning. Where the human form builds up rage that is used in the bear form to power their attacks, but I also like the way COH did their Peacebrings and Warshades. I guess what it boils down to is I would like to see a power set that changes the available powers and strengths & weakness based on the form you are currently in.
Sounds more like a "mode-switching" mechanic paired with a "shape-shifting" aesthetic...
An example of a mode-switching-but-not-much-aesthetic-switching mechanic in City of Heroes would be the multi-mode Dual Pistols power set. And unlike Kheldians, you could choose your other power set.

That's a good way to put it, "mode switching", and is probably the closest MWM should go in relation to "shapeshifting" since otherwise it'll probably become too "restrictive" when viewed against their design philosophy.
Of course, limiting mode switching only to secondary effects would be pretty limiting so being able to extend it to also affect range (melee<->ranged), target amount (single<->AoE) and target type (offensive<->defensive) would be preferable. Though if they extend it to that then I think it needs a significant CD.

I like the idea of mode switching, because you could separate the aesthetics from the power, so while one person switched into a werewolf another person could switch to a battle suit with a sword. Also with the way LOTRO has it implement there is kind of a built in CD. You have to build rage before you can shift, and the whole time you are in bear form you are loosing rage. While you can shift sooner than having your rage full, if you shift to soon all you can just do is one attack and then your out of rage. I think this helps balance it out.

Lothic
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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Sounds more like a "mode-switching" mechanic paired with a "shape-shifting" aesthetic...

An example of a mode-switching-but-not-much-aesthetic-switching mechanic in City of Heroes would be the multi-mode Dual Pistols power set. And unlike Kheldians, you could choose your other power set.

Yeah I'd also rather have a "mode switching" mechanic rather than the type of "shape-shifting" they used with the Kheldians.

I played several Kheldians during my years in CoH and I didn't absolutely hate the hardwired shapes we were basically forced to play with. But I will point out that in the end my most played Kheldian was probably one of my "Human form only" Peacebringers and I think that was the case mostly because I preferred having my own costumes/styles instead of the generic ones the game locked us into.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

rookslide
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I don't know if anyone else

I don't know if anyone else has suggest this or would even like the idea but one of the mechanics I liked in path of exile (POE) was how the more you used a particular skill/ability the more powerful that particular skill became. So if there are skills I didn't care for I could just use other ones that I could build upon as they grew stronger. POE calls them gems but it's the same concept as developing a power that you rely on more than other ones. My idea being depending on what powers you choose to "invest" you time in gives you some different options for the next power/s available as you reach the next "level". Of course it would require a pretty varied set of powers and then some way to opt in different ones depending on how players develop their character, probably way difficult to manage. It just seemed like a neat way to build a character in a unique direction a little less cookie cutterish than COX was when I played. A player that falls to melee skills more would get more melee options presented where one that uses more stealthy methods may get a "next power" selection that more directly supports their style. A way to avoid your having to take the exact same power every time they build a character because they know it works. I know that was a trap I fell into frequently. Just a thought...

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Lothic
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rookslide wrote:
rookslide wrote:

the more you used a particular skill/ability the more powerful that particular skill became.

Nothing wrong with skills-based character progression - countless games have used that core concept for decades. The only problem with that methodology is that it's basically 180 degrees different from the class/powerset-based system that CoH/CoT uses.

There might be a way for CoT to offer us some kind of skills/powers hybrid but I wouldn't count on it with any certainty.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

KnightMask
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I believe that the passive

I believe that the passive tree concept from POE(PathOfExile) would be a great way for masteries to work. An ever branching tree of options that have different ways to improve your character making for unique builds

Lothic
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KnightMask wrote:
KnightMask wrote:

I believe that the passive tree concept from POE(PathOfExile) would be a great way for masteries to work. An ever branching tree of options that have different ways to improve your character making for unique builds

Yeah maybe this could be a part of an end-game post-50 "Incarnate" like system. But this would be strictly separate from the level 1-50 powerset-based progression that we've already been told we're going to get in CoT.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Tannim222
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KnightMask wrote:
KnightMask wrote:

I believe that the passive tree concept from POE(PathOfExile) would be a great way for masteries to work. An ever branching tree of options that have different ways to improve your character making for unique builds

Mastery powers offer 3'choices through levelling, you can either follow a particualr Mastery or mix and mat h among all the choices, but you can only take the 2nd tier of a particular Mastery if you have the first power, or the third tier if hou have the second. This still gives the player plenty of combinations just with the launch Mastery sets. If we ever add more, then more combinations are possible.

Very early on we had a skill system. It was later scratched as we begsn to iterate concepts. The next step was a series of noncombat powers. For the moment, those have been shelved because we're focusing on combat. And then we have another system which does away with the noncombat powers, replaces most of it in a sense,

Once we're finished with combat and come back around to exploring these options we'll have to see which has a better return of investment for dev time and for the game as a whole. Either of these used a separate progression system from how combat works (level gain and xp). Its too early to tell if any of these will work, or how what shape they'll ultimately have when and if such a system is created.


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Beamrider wrote:
Beamrider wrote:

Tannim222 wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
I'd prefer to see defensive qualities divorced from costume details.
Be Well!
Fireheart
That's the intention, though there may be certain limitations based on the theme of a power set. For example, it might not make sense to pair rifle animations with a whip melee set. And no, not comformation of a whip-shooting-rifle set, or a whip-flinging-rifle set either! ;)
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"Nope." *toss* *THUD*
"Owww...."