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Please make grey mobs act like grey mobs

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Cinnder
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Please make grey mobs act like grey mobs

I don't want to resurrect the discussion of whether we should outlevel enemies, so I'm basing this on the assumption that we will do so as we did in the old city.

If so, please make mobs that are worth zero xp not aggro as if they were non-greys. I'm playing Dragon Age Inquisition right now, and mobs that are too low level to grant any xp still aggro like level-appropriate mobs, forcing me to fight them for no gain. This would be just an annoyance if these 'grey' mobs died as quickly as they did in our old game, but they still take about the same time to defeat as mobs of my own level, and they can still kill my characters. If I have to put forth effort to defeat enemies -- and if they can do significant damage to me -- I'd think it's reasonable to expect to get xp from them.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I do agree that some type of

I do agree that some type of balance should exist. :)

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I'm of the opinion that World

I'm of the opinion that World of Warcraft handled this issue better than City of Heroes did.

In City of Heroes, once a mob "cons grey" they just ignore you (so you can ignore them too). The end result of this is a Familiarity Breeds Contempt dynamic, where Players can "get up in the faces of" NPCs and the NPCs won't react unless attacked. The end result is a loss of "respect" for those NPCs, up to and including no need for pathing avoidance when traveling since the NPCs simply don't react to the presence of the Player(s).

In World of Warcraft, the "aggro radius" of an NPC mob works on a proportional scale basis keyed to the Level Differential between PC and NPC. This proportional scaling works in both directions, so NPCs that are +X Levels to the PC have their aggro radius increased per level of difference ... while NPCs that are -X Levels to the PC have their aggro radius reduced per level of difference. The important thing that makes this "work" is that the adjustments to the aggro radius are multipliers, not addition/subtraction. This means that when you have outleveled the mob NPCs in an area, the aggro radius for those NPCs can become very small (basically melee range at the extreme end of things) but it never "vanishes" all the way down to zero. The net result is that low level hostile NPCs continue to be "annoying pests" to actively AVOID when traveling, thus producing an actively engaging "obstacle course" mentality in the Player going from A to B, rather than the act of traveling becoming a passive "waiting game" of simply setting direction and just waiting to arrive because NOTHING WILL HAPPEN along the way.


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Sounds like Dragon Age

Sounds like Dragon Age Inquisition handles levels in an odd fashion, since the typical interpretation is that anything "low level" is just that: a low level of challenge. Especially if they aware little to no reward for being defeated.

As I've mentioned in the past, I generally preferred the CoH method of having mobs ignore PCs at a certain level difference. I definitely considered such NPCs in WoW to be annoying pests*, but I never felt the need to avoid them any more than I did in CoH. Yes, in WoW they could aggro and attack but there was no more danger to that than being ignored by a NPC in CoH. To me it actually felt appropriate that such low level NPCs would not attack since most NPCs in CoH were intelligent (for certain values of intelligence, natch). Where I could see things adopting a more WoW approach is if the idea of overwhelming force comes into play. Say the PC manages to aggro a dozen NPCs. Now these NPCs might think, "Hey, there's twelve of us and only one of them. We can take them!"



* Primarily so because the noise of having one or more such NPCs attack got annoying very quickly, so if they were still aggro'd and attacked when I stopped I'd squish them just to have some quiet.

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There were times when I

There were times when I wished that low-level NPC's would react by running away from me but I guess that would have inevitably led to griefing of low-level players by making their bags of xp run away.

"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."

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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

To me it actually felt appropriate that such low level NPCs would not attack since most NPCs in CoH were intelligent (for certain values of intelligence, natch).

Agreed. Only modification i would make, is for the low level mobs to switch to busy work, when my much higher level toon approaches them. Meaning, they don't have to run off, but instead, stop trying to steal that lady's purse, and she runs off, but they stay there, pretending it was horse play. Some get a little rough, others pretend to talk on their cell, but after a few, they would pull the cell away from their ear and look around to see if I left, and go back to pretending to talk on the phone. Same thing with a newspaper, pull it down to see if i'm still there, and go back to pretending to read it. etc...

Lin Chiao Feng
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Rigel wrote:
Rigel wrote:

There were times when I wished that low-level NPC's would react by running away from me but I guess that would have inevitably led to griefing of low-level players by making their bags of xp run away.

Also griefing by herding them toward lower-level areas.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

Darth Fez
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Go. Hunt. Stampede Skuls.

Go. Hunt. Stampede Skuls.

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If you're worried about the

If you're worried about the an annoyance of mobs in the outside world aggroing on you, why don't you just use your built-in, not-taking-up-a-power-slot travel power and fly/jump/teleport over them or superspeed past them?

The other issue is, in GW2 when you're level 80 and you go to a level 15-25 zone, you get auto-exemped down by the game. Now, having all the level 80 powers unlocked (which you can still use) and better gear does make you WAY more effective than you were when you were an appropriate level for that zone, but that said the mobs never con grey to you. But that game doesn't have Fly as an option either. If it did, you could still Fly over most low-level things that would be annoyances.

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Rigel wrote:
There were times when I wished that low-level NPC's would react by running away from me but I guess that would have inevitably led to griefing of low-level players by making their bags of xp run away.
Also griefing by herding them toward lower-level areas.

This is all probably true, but it's unfortunate. It makes sense for street gang members to scatter when Superman shows up.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

This is all probably true, but it's unfortunate. It makes sense for street gang members to scatter when Superman shows up.

Hmm... i rather them not just automatically scatter. Only if your high level toon attacks them, Then they can Scatter. :)

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
This is all probably true, but it's unfortunate. It makes sense for street gang members to scatter when Superman shows up.
Hmm... i rather them not just automatically scatter. Only if your high level toon attacks them, Then they can Scatter. :)

That's what I meant.

I would think at least in most people's books Superman counts as a high level toon, and street gangs are generally low-level toons. I so what I was implying was auto-scatter for grey-con mobs.

But, much as I would love that, it seems not to be practical as a game mechanic.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Rigel wrote:
There were times when I wished that low-level NPC's would react by running away from me but I guess that would have inevitably led to griefing of low-level players by making their bags of xp run away.
Also griefing by herding them toward lower-level areas.
This is all probably true, but it's unfortunate. It makes sense for street gang members to scatter when Superman shows up.

Definitely, but comics have one power that we can't duplicate in-game: when some outclassed NPCs run off-panel, in the comics they may as well cease to exist. Here, that's a lot trickier.

Which is why the police drones were stationed around everywhere players routinely spawned in, like zone doors, commerce areas, and hospitals.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

Empyrean wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Rigel wrote:
There were times when I wished that low-level NPC's would react by running away from me but I guess that would have inevitably led to griefing of low-level players by making their bags of xp run away.
Also griefing by herding them toward lower-level areas.
This is all probably true, but it's unfortunate. It makes sense for street gang members to scatter when Superman shows up.
Definitely, but comics have one power that we can't duplicate in-game: when some outclassed NPCs run off-panel, in the comics they may as well cease to exist. Here, that's a lot trickier.
Which is why the police drones were stationed around everywhere players routinely spawned in, like zone doors, commerce areas, and hospitals.

Word.

Parent genre and gaming reality have to find a compromise to be married (much as in real marriage!).

There are a few places in CoH and in the coming CoT where I wish things were more like "comic books", but I understand that it's an MMORPG based on comic books, so an appropriate balance must be struck in the service of FUN :D!

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Cinnder
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Darth Fez wrote:
Darth Fez wrote:

Sounds like Dragon Age Inquisition handles levels in an odd fashion, since the typical interpretation is that anything "low level" is just that: a low level of challenge. Especially if they aware little to no reward for being defeated.

Exactly.

Darth Fez wrote:

Primarily so because the noise of having one or more such NPCs attack got annoying very quickly, so if they were still aggro'd and attacked when I stopped I'd squish them just to have some quiet.

As annoying as this seems, it also makes me laugh. Maybe it's the way you describe it. :-)

Izzy wrote:

Only modification i would make, is for the low level mobs to switch to busy work, when my much higher level toon approaches them. Meaning, they don't have to run off, but instead, stop trying to steal that lady's purse, and she runs off, but they stay there, pretending it was horse play. Some get a little rough, others pretend to talk on their cell, but after a few, they would pull the cell away from their ear and look around to see if I left, and go back to pretending to talk on the phone. Same thing with a newspaper, pull it down to see if i'm still there, and go back to pretending to read it. etc...

I absolutely love this idea! Especially because it means they would still be there for -- and be able to react to -- any level-appropriate player-character that came along, thus solving any griefing problem.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

If you're worried about the an annoyance of mobs in the outside world aggroing on you, why don't you just use your built-in, not-taking-up-a-power-slot travel power and fly/jump/teleport over them or superspeed past them?
The other issue is, in GW2 when you're level 80 and you go to a level 15-25 zone, you get auto-exemped down by the game. Now, having all the level 80 powers unlocked (which you can still use) and better gear does make you WAY more effective than you were when you were an appropriate level for that zone, but that said the mobs never con grey to you. But that game doesn't have Fly as an option either. If it did, you could still Fly over most low-level things that would be annoyances.

Probably the best way to handle This sort of situation is the .change the level of characters to match the zone. If your low level you fight at the zones minimum level. If there a a special mission or event it will help the odd man out. Many times I heard of an player or myself have been that odd man without a team. In City of Heroes /Villains the usual way kind of removed powers when exemplared down that didn't always make sense.
You remembered the techniques even if you lost power or that gun had its molecularity change so that some of the options just didn't work. Even if the only thing that happened was time travel.

If powers that are require a higher level then the level of the minimum to select. They should operate at a reduced efficiency. Maybe that super nova blast that has a high recharge doesn't due the same percentage of super heavy damage but it still probably does a lot of damage and certainly does slightly higher damage as the medium wield explosion power.

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Rigel wrote:
Rigel wrote:

There were times when I wished that low-level NPC's would react by running away from me but I guess that would have inevitably led to griefing of low-level players by making their bags of xp run away.

So why not make them run from high-level players unless there's a low level player nearby. Once aggroed on a low player, they stay aggroed?

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Darth Fez wrote:
To me it actually felt appropriate that such low level NPCs would not attack since most NPCs in CoH were intelligent (for certain values of intelligence, natch).
Agreed. Only modification i would make, is for the low level mobs to switch to busy work, when my much higher level toon approaches them. Meaning, they don't have to run off, but instead, stop trying to steal that lady's purse, and she runs off, but they stay there, pretending it was horse play. Some get a little rough, others pretend to talk on their cell, but after a few, they would pull the cell away from their ear and look around to see if I left, and go back to pretending to talk on the phone. Same thing with a newspaper, pull it down to see if i'm still there, and go back to pretending to read it. etc...

I think there should be a chance to run or chill, but I love the idea of them just playing it off.

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Godling wrote:
Godling wrote:

Probably the best way to handle This sort of situation is the .change the level of characters to match the zone. If your low level you fight at the zones minimum level. If there a a special mission or event it will help the odd man out. Many times I heard of an player or myself have been that odd man without a team. In City of Heroes /Villains the usual way kind of removed powers when exemplared down that didn't always make sense.
You remembered the techniques even if you lost power or that gun had its molecularity change so that some of the options just didn't work. Even if the only thing that happened was time travel.
If powers that are require a higher level then the level of the minimum to select. They should operate at a reduced efficiency. Maybe that super nova blast that has a high recharge doesn't due the same percentage of super heavy damage but it still probably does a lot of damage and certainly does slightly higher damage as the medium wield explosion power.

I certainly don't want a character I've played for months to suddenly be artificially weakened just because I chose to go to visit a starting area. I'd think we would want to encourage higher levels to go there and show newer players what is possible and give them the "Oh, neat!" factor. Artificially hampering a character like that seems like a poor idea rather than just have mobs that are too low level just run off, act nonchalant, or start dancing or something.

(insert pithy comment here)

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"Quick guys, act chill!"

"Quick guys, act chill!"

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Dark Ether wrote:
Dark Ether wrote:

I certainly don't want a character I've played for months to suddenly be artificially weakened just because I chose to go to visit a starting area. I'd think we would want to encourage higher levels to go there and show newer players what is possible and give them the "Oh, neat!" factor. Artificially hampering a character like that seems like a poor idea rather than just have mobs that are too low level just run off, act nonchalant, or start dancing or something.

Emphatically agreed. For me, the feeling of character progression and increased power over time is one of the key elements of a good MMO. Volunteering to temporarily sacrifice this in order to team with a lower-level character is one thing, but I wouldn't want to be transformed back to a newbie simply because I travel back to the starting area.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Dark Ether wrote:
I certainly don't want a character I've played for months to suddenly be artificially weakened just because I chose to go to visit a starting area. I'd think we would want to encourage higher levels to go there and show newer players what is possible and give them the "Oh, neat!" factor. Artificially hampering a character like that seems like a poor idea rather than just have mobs that are too low level just run off, act nonchalant, or start dancing or something.
Emphatically agreed. For me, the feeling of character progression and increased power over time is one of the key elements of a good MMO. Volunteering to temporarily sacrifice this in order to team with a lower-level character is one thing, but I wouldn't want to be transformed back to a newbie simply because I travel back to the starting area.

Agreed.

One of my favorite activities in CoX was to Speed Boost anyone I could in Mercy. Since Corrupters couldn't get that power until level 20 exemping would have prevented that. (Quick note that redside Mercy was not the social hub that AP was blueside. Speed Boosting in AP was an annoyance to many.)

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Well said Redlynne! I have

Well said Redlynne! I have played many games where you simply press "r" or "/" to auto-run to your destination without worry of mobs doing any serious harm. While It can be convenient, it does significant damage to both immersion and realism (as real as a game involving lularoe-legging-clad super heroes can be). I like the idea of scaled aggro which never quite reaches zero. Its like, "I know that you're strong and would probably destroy me, but if you get in my face i'll roundhouse your a**".

Respectfully,

Photuris

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Izzy's "act chill" reaction

Izzy's "act chill" reaction for low-level NPCs in the execution of a crime is a great idea. Other not actively stealing hubcabs could hope to survive by simply ignoring you. Perhaps others run, but then switch to non-chalant / chill mode. At least they couldn't be herded far. This might not make sense for some of the fearless / weirder villains.

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It would be funny if you

It would be funny if you could just walk up behind some lowbie stealing a hubcap, use the Clear Throat power, watch them freeze for a second and then put the hubcap back on.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

It would be funny if you could just walk up behind some lowbie stealing a hubcap, use the Clear Throat power, watch them freeze for a second and then put the hubcap back on.

I was thinking about something like that ^^
Something like the mob is about stealing the woman's bag, sees/feels the SH arriving (via a very big and silent alert zone around the SH) and so then just stop and chill and whistle like you wouldn't think, it doesn't look like it. Or even, beguns trying to hide or even other reactions...; But i saw some difficulties like what about how manage this behaviour when the SH has his superspeed on ? The mob will not even have the time to do that... Like if you use teleport...
This kind of behaviour could be really great, but i think it's hard to integrate.


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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
It would be funny if you could just walk up behind some lowbie stealing a hubcap, use the Clear Throat power, watch them freeze for a second and then put the hubcap back on.

I was thinking about something like that ^^
Something like the mob is about stealing the woman's bag, sees/feels the SH arriving (via a very big and silent alert zone around the SH) and so then just stop and chill and whistle like you wouldn't think, it doesn't look like it. Or even, beguns trying to hide or even other reactions...; But i saw some difficulties like what about how manage this behaviour when the SH has his superspeed on ? The mob will not even have the time to do that... Like if you use teleport...
This kind of behaviour could be really great, but i think it's hard to integrate.

I really love that idea also. :-)

In the old game, Super Speed had a minor stealth element, so most mobs wouldn't even notice you as long as you kept moving.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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TitansCity wrote:
TitansCity wrote:

Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
It would be funny if you could just walk up behind some lowbie stealing a hubcap, use the Clear Throat power, watch them freeze for a second and then put the hubcap back on.
I was thinking about something like that ^^
Something like the mob is about stealing the woman's bag, sees/feels the SH arriving (via a very big and silent alert zone around the SH) and so then just stop and chill and whistle like you wouldn't think, it doesn't look like it. Or even, beguns trying to hide or even other reactions...; But i saw some difficulties like what about how manage this behaviour when the SH has his superspeed on ? The mob will not even have the time to do that... Like if you use teleport...
This kind of behaviour could be really great, but i think it's hard to integrate.

What if for about 3 seconds they act like they did in CoX then notice you

not my video just one I lke ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-SdIN0hsM

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Interesting thread. I like a

Interesting thread. I like a lot of the options provided. And I think it would be interesting to see different personalities in different mobs. In a zone like AP you'd have a smaller groups (1-2) that would use the act chill while others might scatter if they are if they are actively engaged in a crime. Larger groups in these zones might adopt an aggressive stance or continue as they were more or less ignoring you until you draw aggro at which time they might try to dog pile you or scatter.

In a low level zone with even larger groups like perez park you'd see more aggressive behavior. If there are twelve of them and one of you. They will aggro every time.

I think the mechanic for this could be a AOE "fear rating" which decides how a group responds. Members of a group are assigned a fear rating 1-10 and that number carries and AOE component. So a small group of 2 might have a fear rating of 2 and 3, pretty low. When together they sum to 5 so a character of +5 levels greater causes them to act cool and run when aggroed. However, a group of 12 would have a fear rating of 40 and would try to aggro you (maybe via "your momma" jokes or mocking your cape) despite your being 30 levels higher than them because collectively they feel they are pretty tough and there's a peer pressure component through the AOE.

You can use this to your advantage. If a large group aggro's you you'll likely be able to take out the LTs or bosses which are likely to have a higher fear rating which would cause the group's fear rating to drop and them to scatter.

Obviously all the numbers in here are quick back of the napkin items and could use a lot of work. There's also the trouble of runners. Personally I don't mind them and a fear rating mechanic like this could cause them to "regain their composure" and depending how it functions come back with reinforcements or something more intelligent than running a quarter mile with their hair figuratively on fire. It also only looks at the reactions from a purely black and white perspective. Or rather red and blue. In CoT you could potentially have some standing with a particular faction or negative standing which ought to affect a groups response. IE if you've done a few jobs for the Don then his mooks aren't going to run and hide when you show up despite being +40 to them. And then you have to consider groups too. So one low level hero shows up the thugs start attacking but a max level character flies by should they cut and run or wait for aggro. Consider that they are doing effectively the same thing to that low level hero as robbing a civilian which we've already dictated should cause them to change behavior. One answer could be that a players fear rating against baddies slowly builds while moving, preventing major changes in behavior until that player stops. Looking at the server side of things calculating the effect of hundreds and probably thousands of AOEs could be a problem.

Well there's my 8 cents. I'm certainly open to feedback on the mechanic but generally I agree that there should be a change in behavior for instances like this.

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Grimfox wrote:
Grimfox wrote:

I think the mechanic for this could be a AOE "fear rating" which decides how a group responds.
Well there's my 8 cents. I'm certainly open to feedback on the mechanic but generally I agree that there should be a change in behavior for instances like this.

I think that's a great take on the old aggro system that most games use.

Typically I've seen aggro as a sort of pressure field where a mob has an aggro field that is as strong as its level plus some sort of agressiveness modifier. A character exerts a negative pressure on that equal to their own power level such that the resulting aggro range is the range at which the mob becomes hostile.

But your suggestion of a collective mechanic is a wonderfully simple solution in the way that genius is found in simplicity. As you suggested, it could also stand in as a morale check during encounters as attrition takes its toll upon the enemy. Nice.

I would worry about the potential for more powerful players to grief lower levels by scaring away their mobs while they are fighting them. But rather than changing such a beautiful mechanic, I would try to disincentivise the higher-level players instead. One way would be perhaps by penalizing them by the experience they cost the lower level player, proportionately scaled to their own level.
Or another way to prevent griefing by higher-powered players would be to normalize the power levels of all players in the area, as others have discussed, such that there are no over-powered players to have to deal with.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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They wouldn't necessarily

They wouldn't necessarily have to scatter they might simply cease being overtly criminal. Whistling innocence or becoming suddenly engrossed in their phone (nobody reads newspapers anymore). Or deciding to take a quick walk into the nearby alley. Not a hair on fire dash "away" where jumping a wall to power lines and running along those is seen as a safer alternative to being in your presence.

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I wouldn't be against auto

I wouldn't be against auto-exemping all toons to a level that is at or close to the max level of the area you're in, if such could be done. Then, it's a matter of having some open, relatively safe areas to walk around in and other, less safe dark alleyways for mobs to be in. You can still, presumably fly/jump/tp/run to avoid such mobs anyway, plus whatever mass transit system is in place like the monorail, plus SG options.

Let's say I'm level 50 and I go to a level 20 zone. If I defeat a mob, I think I should get rewards commensurate with the level of the zone I'm in, not my (unadjusted) level. So if I need a specific bit of salvage or something, like raw materials, I would go to the area where mobs that have that would be found. This way, theoretically, high level items aren't AS cheap compared to the low level stuff based on time spent at those levels by players. Of course that makes it less desirable for a high level toon to sidekick someone and do the sidekick's missions, but that's probably how it should be. Or you could have different item rewards that drop in different ways that contain some character-level-based loot and some area-level-based loot.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I like the various Auto

I like the various Auto-Exemplar options, Zone/Team/Sidekick, but I'd really like to have more granular control of them. I remember a few times where I joined a friend's Team, only to suddenly realize that I've been exemped to level 5 while traveling through a level 50 zone, and suddenly even the cockroaches are tougher than me. Or when I get exemped below the level where I took Flight and suddenly I'm walking on empty air.

So, I'm happy to be auto-leveled to fit the zone I'm in - IF I can toggle that setting on and off. I'm pleased to join a team of low-levels, if I can more carefully control what conditions will modify my level, and especially if I can Keep my Travel Powers, at least until I reach the mission-door.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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It just dawned on me that GW2

It just dawned on me that GW2 has different level rewards like I was saying. When I did last nights Octovine raid, I got BLUE containers, GREEN containers, YELLOW containers and ORANGE containers as some of the rewards. These containers are just a thing that you get as treasure that you double-click on to "open" and you get a random reward of some kind, but of a known rarity (or a known random reward table at least). The blue ones, having been dropped on me "CoX style" by the game for completing the raid content were set to level 80 as that is the level of the zone I was in (Auric Basin). The containers that came out of the treasure chests in the treasure chest bonanza rooms at the end of the raid apparently key off of the level of the toon opening them each time. So out of a Great Exalted Chest that I opened at the end of the raid I might've gotten a "Noxious Seed Pod" or several, which is a thing that you can open to get a bit of armor or weapon that's held inside. In the case of the Noxious Seed Pod, the level of item you get when you open it depends on what level the toon opening it is, not on the level of the content. For this reason, I and others will take those containers and ship them to our lower level (53 is optimal?) toons to open, in order to get the more expensive level 50-60ish raw materials. Interestingly, Mithril is pretty cheap, while Iron and Platinum are a little more expensive, despite being of lower level. Hilariously, gold is worth less than copper, and linen is worth more than either of them.

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So the question in my mind

So the question in my mind now is, if I'm level capped and you're some low level, and we team up to do missions in a low level zone, what might drop for me is some low level stuff, like you'd expect the low level baddies to drop, plus some "containers" that key off of the level of the person opening them. This way the sidekick only gets low level stuff and the capped person gets a mix. On the other hand, if we do missions of the capped level, this would mean the sidekick is getting HIGHER level stuff, unless there is code in there to prevent that.

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I like the fear idea, and how

I like the fear idea, and how a larger group might still decide to take on a higher-level character even if they are grey to the player character. That could be combined with the same sort of minor stealth we used to get from Super Speed, so that if you keep moving past them they don't react, but if you stand there staring at them, they start to feel a misplaced confidence from their numbers and challenge you despite their assured doom.

I wouldn't mind if CoT offered players the option to exemp to the zone level, but I think it would be terrible to make it mandatory/automatic, for the reasons mentioned above.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

I'm of the opinion that World of Warcraft handled this issue better than City of Heroes did.
In City of Heroes, once a mob "cons grey" they just ignore you (so you can ignore them too). The end result of this is a Familiarity Breeds Contempt dynamic, where Players can "get up in the faces of" NPCs and the NPCs won't react unless attacked. The end result is a loss of "respect" for those NPCs, up to and including no need for pathing avoidance when traveling since the NPCs simply don't react to the presence of the Player(s).
In World of Warcraft, the "aggro radius" of an NPC mob works on a proportional scale basis keyed to the Level Differential between PC and NPC. This proportional scaling works in both directions, so NPCs that are +X Levels to the PC have their aggro radius increased per level of difference ... while NPCs that are -X Levels to the PC have their aggro radius reduced per level of difference. The important thing that makes this "work" is that the adjustments to the aggro radius are multipliers, not addition/subtraction. This means that when you have outleveled the mob NPCs in an area, the aggro radius for those NPCs can become very small (basically melee range at the extreme end of things) but it never "vanishes" all the way down to zero. The net result is that low level hostile NPCs continue to be "annoying pests" to actively AVOID when traveling, thus producing an actively engaging "obstacle course" mentality in the Player going from A to B, rather than the act of traveling becoming a passive "waiting game" of simply setting direction and just waiting to arrive because NOTHING WILL HAPPEN along the way.

The other thing to remember about the "All Grey to me" difference between WoW/Other MMO's and CoX, was that in the non CoX MMO's, grey mobs *still* gave you some form of reward for defeating them. Sure, you might not get XP, but you got stuff that you could sell/use for crafting.

Quote:

1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.

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Izzy wrote:
Izzy wrote:

Agreed. Only modification i would make, is for the low level mobs to switch to busy work, when my much higher level toon approaches them. Meaning, they don't have to run off, but instead, stop trying to steal that lady's purse, and she runs off, but they stay there, pretending it was horse play. Some get a little rough, others pretend to talk on their cell, but after a few, they would pull the cell away from their ear and look around to see if I left, and go back to pretending to talk on the phone. Same thing with a newspaper, pull it down to see if i'm still there, and go back to pretending to read it. etc...

Ha! That's kinda awesome! I love that.