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Playing the game with an Xbox/PS4 controller?

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shadryx
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Playing the game with an Xbox/PS4 controller?

Will you be able to? You can with DCUO and CO, but I'm sure they are very different games. If not, will it ever happen?

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No plans for consoles at this

No plans for consoles at this time. PC and Mac to start with (maybe Linux?). When the game goes live and they build up enough of a proper Dev team and have some extra cash lying around, they may revisit that.

Soulwind
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I don't recall ever seeing

I don't recall ever seeing any statements about controller support or not. My personal belief, for what little it is worth, is probably not.

Many buttons and controllers don't really mix.

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Our current control scheme

Our current control scheme doesn't support it.

I'll never say never, but it's not likely that we'll add it natively.

You might be able to rig up an emulator, but simply due to the amount of buttons needed, I can't see it working very well.

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shadryx
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Thanks, I thought that might

Thanks, I thought that might be the case. CO and DCUO have smaller amounts of powers than I thought COT would have.

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avelworldcreator
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We've played with the idea of

We've played with the idea of controllers. In fact I was once tasked once with an onscreen layout for one form of controller. Our target platforms at this time are: Windows 64-bit (maybe 32-bit but that might have issues), OS X, and Linux. But at the moment there are tools out there that allow you to bind controller functions to specific keys or key sequences (I have a joystick controller I have set up that way as a tool for Stardew Valley) so if you find a set up that works for you it's very possible it can be done.

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warlocc wrote:
warlocc wrote:

Our current control scheme doesn't support it.

I'll never say never, but it's not likely that we'll add it natively.

You might be able to rig up an emulator, but simply due to the amount of buttons needed, I can't see it working very well.

While right now we are set up for m+kb, we do have plans to extend support to controllers in the future. Our insiration is FFix.

We also have plans for an exentsive bind and macro system. Both are likely to be well past post launch however.


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warlocc
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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

We've played with the idea of controllers. In fact I was once tasked once with an onscreen layout for one form of controller. Our target platforms at this time are: Windows 64-bit (maybe 32-bit but that might have issues), OS X, and Linux. But at the moment there are tools out there that allow you to bind controller functions to specific keys or key sequences (I have a joystick controller I have set up that way as a tool for Stardew Valley) so if you find a set up that works for you it's very possible it can be done.

Yeah, like that.

I've tried similar with other MMOs. Moving around and basic interaction is easy. Once you start adding chat, long lists of powers, and crafting systems, you're right back on the mouse and kb.

Or at least, I was.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

While right now we are set up for m+kb, we do have plans to extend support to controllers in the future. Our insiration is FFix.

I would think that those folks who really, really want to use a console controller for this game could figure out how to get a third party emulator to handle it so I honestly hope that "native support" for these things would be of a relatively low priority. Not saying you should "never" support them but there's really a whole bunch of other things you guys should get working first -before- native support for console controllers is considered unless something like that would actually be super-trivial to implement.

Tannim222 wrote:

We also have plans for an exentsive bind and macro system. Both are likely to be well past post launch however.

As an example of something you should get working LONG before native console controller support is stuff like "an exentsive bind and macro system".

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IIRC, CO has is a bit more

IIRC, CO has is a bit more action-y than CoH was and CoT is going to be, so a controller makes more sense for them.


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We do test with controllers,

We do test with controllers, specifically XBox, PS4 and Steam. We are keeping controllers in mind.

Or I should say, I test with controllers. That way I can note what is needed for when the time comes.

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I actually have a 3D joystick

I actually have a 3D joystick with LOTS of buttons and toggles for my own testing. Plan to invest in more. Even VR when I can get the rigs.

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So, promising news to all

So, promising news to all around. I don't care about controllers as I prefer m+kb whenever possible, but I know other people do.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

I actually have a 3D joystick with LOTS of buttons and toggles for my own testing. Plan to invest in more. Even VR when I can get the rigs.

I have a Vive. The problem might be the space for the sensors.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:

Our insiration is FFix.

We also have plans for an exentsive bind and macro system. Both are likely to be well past post launch however.

I've never played ffix, but i do know FFXIV had brilliant controller setup. I never imagined an mmo would be able to play so fluidly with a console controller but they made it amazing.

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avelworldcreator wrote:
avelworldcreator wrote:

I actually have a 3D joystick with LOTS of buttons and toggles for my own testing. Plan to invest in more. Even VR when I can get the rigs.

Link me! I need moar buttons!


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just curious i read that

just curious i read that controller support was built in to unreal 4 engine. is there a way to use or activate that with in the game?

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jblee1170 wrote:
jblee1170 wrote:

just curious i read that controller support was built in to unreal 4 engine. is there a way to use or activate that with in the game?

I'm sure there would be a way to use that "built-in UE4 support" and that's probably what MWM would do. But like everything else it would still take time to make that work and test it with CoT and it's up to MWM whether they want to prioritize spending time and effort on that instead of other features.

I understand some people would really "want" to have native console controller support for this game but as long as that feature remains a "nice to have" instead of a "must have" it really ought to be put off until other more critical features are working first. There's a metric crap-ton of features I'd "want to have" in CoT that I realize are not really important enough to justify for launch so I have reluctantly accepted that most of those things will likely only happen after launch assuming they happen at all. *shrugs*

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jblee1170 wrote:
jblee1170 wrote:

just curious i read that controller support was built in to unreal 4 engine. is there a way to use or activate that with in the game?

There is and it is easy to hook up. But native connection isn’t an issue, it is the UI / UX. Every game is different.

A common FPS maybhave need for only 2-6 action keys and directional movement+straddling. And maybe a couple of chat / menu related keys ifnthere even is text chat.

CoT has 23 powers, reserves, 3 dimensional movement (flighty), temporary powers, + optional group member section buttons, and chat buttons.

Setting up a controller to navigate multiple power trays and among everything else takes more than native engine support for controllers.


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I cannot imagine team-chat

I cannot imagine team-chat without a keyboard.

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Tannim222 wrote:
Tannim222 wrote:
jblee1170 wrote:

just curious i read that controller support was built in to unreal 4 engine. is there a way to use or activate that with in the game?

There is and it is easy to hook up. But native connection isn’t an issue, it is the UI / UX. Every game is different.

A common FPS maybhave need for only 2-6 action keys and directional movement+straddling. And maybe a couple of chat / menu related keys ifnthere even is text chat.

CoT has 23 powers, reserves, 3 dimensional movement (flighty), temporary powers, + optional group member section buttons, and chat buttons.

Setting up a controller to navigate multiple power trays and among everything else takes more than native engine support for controllers.

Exactly.

There can be a huge difference between making it "work" and making it "work well". Heck, with what you say just turning controller support on would most likely not even reach the level of "work" so even getting to that level sounds like it would require a significant amount of work.

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The chat really isn't an

The chat really isn't an issue. You just put down the controller and use the keyboard. No diffrent then me taking my hand off the mouse to do the same thing. As crazy as it seems, there were people who used a controller to play CoH, and I don't think CoT will be any harder to set up on one if that is what the player wishes.

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When I play MMORPG, one hand

When I play MMORPG, one hand is on my Razer Nostromo and the other is on a MadKatz MMO7 mouse (both peripherals are out of production, but you can substitute the Razer Tartarus V2 for the Nostromo and the Roccat Tyon for the MMO7 for almost identical capabilities) Basically, I use the thumb joystick on the Nostromo for movement freeing up my fingers to rest on the attack activation keys, so I don't have to do all the finger gymnastics that come with using WASD for movement. And I use the thumb spacebar on the MMO7 for jumping. In other words, I never have to touch the keyboard for anything other than chatting or maybe some hotkeys like M for Map or I for inventory, but depending on the game I can have those hotkeyed to one of the peripherals as well.

This is a long way of saying that I sympathize with your desire to play with a much more ergonomic control hardware and still use the keyboard for chatting. If your PC has a way to keymap controller commands into standard keyboard keys, then you shouldn't need any special controller support by CoT. That would be the first place I would look. A 10 second google search put this at the top of the search queue: https://www.rewasd.com/map-xbox-elite


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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Razer Nostromo

I love my Nostromo!

To the Op; I originally started playing CoH/V on a Logitech controller that was Playstation-styled and it didn't take long to run out of buttons. That's why I went to a (at the time) Belkin Nostromo and managed to convert a few people over to the dark side of using them as well. So if CoT is going to be anything CoH/V-like with it's plethora of powers, a Nostromo may be the way to go instead.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

When I play MMORPG, one hand is on my Razer Nostromo and the other is on a MadKatz MMO7 mouse (both peripherals are out of production, but you can substitute the Razer Tartarus V2 for the Nostromo and the Roccat Tyon for the MMO7 for almost identical capabilities) Basically, I use the thumb joystick on the Nostromo for movement freeing up my fingers to rest on the attack activation keys, so I don't have to do all the finger gymnastics that come with using WASD for movement. And I use the thumb spacebar on the MMO7 for jumping. In other words, I never have to touch the keyboard for anything other than chatting or maybe some hotkeys like M for Map or I for inventory, but depending on the game I can have those hotkeyed to one of the peripherals as well.

So instead of using the "classic" 104 key keyboard and 2 button mouse setup you're just using a "mouse" with like 50 extra buttons and a "keyboard" that only has like 20. All you've done is shifted around where your buttons are located between what's effectively your keyboard and mouse and probably paid a few hundred extra bucks for that privilege. As long as you're having fun with that I guess...

For what it's worth I'd play with a combo like you're describing here long before I'd stoop low enough to play a game like this with a mere console controller. ;)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

So instead of using the "classic" 104 key keyboard and 2 button mouse setup you're just using a "mouse" with like 50 extra buttons and a "keyboard" that only has like 20. All you've done is shifted around where your buttons are located between what's effectively your keyboard and mouse and probably paid a few hundred extra bucks for that privilege. As long as you're having fun with that I guess...

That's one way of looking at it. But the ergonomics of my setup far exceed the ergonomics of a keyboard.

Just being able to use a joystick with my thumb for movement makes it all worthwhile. And to not have to take my hand off my mouse for anything just adds the icing on the cake. I suppose unless you've tried it, you won't know what you're missing. Cobalt Azurean probably knows what I'm talking about.

But to be clear, I will not use one of those mice with nine to twelve buttons on the side like the Logitech G600! That's too much memorization for me and there's no intuitive correlation between the buttons and their purpose in-game with mice like that. Sure it's possible to memorize all those button keybinds, but I prefer the intuitive controls of the MMO7 and mice like it, in which the physical control mechanism provides clues as to its functional usage in game.

For example, there is a button under the thumb that is totally natural to tap like a spacebar when you want to do something like jump, which has always been associated with spacebars as default. Other things like the lateral scroll wheel above the thumb are perfect for scrolling through action bars. etc., etc.

On my Nostromo, I use the scroll wheel to scroll through targets by keybinding scroll up to scroll through enemies and scroll down to scroll through allies (if I'm a healer or support character) otherwise I use scroll down to target assist or target nearest, depending on game and character played. Its as easy as it is coolly intuitive.

Is it all worth the hundred and so dollars I spent on it? You better believe it is to me. Considering I bought them eight years ago and am still using them this way, I've more than gotten my money out of them.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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But, with 'nearest/next

But, with 'nearest/next target' and suchlike, I don't need a mouse. I can control my movement on the NumPad and dance through my powers on the Numbers and type /hello emotes to my friends and still manage a sophisticated conversation about good books with my guildmates, all without leaving the Keyboard. Why try to over-simplify stuff?

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

But, with 'nearest/next target' and suchlike, I don't need a mouse. I can control my movement on the NumPad and dance through my powers on the Numbers and type /hello emotes to my friends and still manage a sophisticated conversation about good books with my guildmates, all without leaving the Keyboard. Why try to over-simplify stuff?

You don't even need a mouse?

hmmm... The last time I tried working in windows without a mouse was back in 3.1 or maybe Windows XP, but then everything then still enabled keyboard commands for everything. (TAB would enable us to cycle through all the clickable buttons in the window in those days... actually still does.) I guess it only makes sense for accessibility reasons that mouseless operation would still be a possibility.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

You don't even need a mouse?

I did not need a mouse to operate Most of CoH. Teleport did need a mouse...

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I suppose unless you've tried it, you won't know what you're missing. Cobalt Azurean probably knows what I'm talking about.

Well in all fairness you actually have no idea what kind of hardware I've tried in relation to playing games over the years or what I currently use for games now. I actually do "know what I'm missing" here and in this case I'm missing a ton of annoyance with silly gimmicky controllers that, at least for me, were always far more trouble than they were worth. As always YMMV.

Huckleberry wrote:

Its as easy as it is coolly intuitive.

Huckleberry wrote:

Is it all worth the hundred and so dollars I spent on it? You better believe it is to me. Considering I bought them eight years ago and am still using them this way, I've more than gotten my money out of them.

Again YMMV. I know mine certainly does.

At least you'll probably know how to get your "toys" to work with CoT without MWM having to waste any time implementing "native support" for them so there's that. My main concern here is whether or not MWM is going to waste time supporting these "non-standard" controllers when there's obviously a bunch of other things they ought to be focused on first.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I suppose unless you've tried it, you won't know what you're missing. Cobalt Azurean probably knows what I'm talking about.

It does seem to be one of those cases where someone is usually only convinced once they're actually used one. As I mentioned before, I've managed to convert a few people over to using Nostromos, and they were all hardcore skeptics with all the same reservations and perception as everyone else before them until they finally sat down and tried it. Now, to be fair, there have been people that haven't enjoyed a Nostromo whom I've attempted to sway, and usually for the same reason; they can't chat with it. Almost entirely all the people (the only other being someone who thought it needed MOAR BUTTONS) who didn't end up using a Nostromo were people who would be considered fairly social in their online play. So, for them to switch from using a full keyboard to "just a technically smaller keyboard" (their words) when going from chat to combat didn't make sense when they could just use the full keyboard for both purposes. I don't begrudge them for their preferences, we all have them after all, and it's certainly not for everyone.

Edit: I had actually forgotten the price tag. It had been a minute since I had purchased one, due to them lasting a reasonable duration, and it had gone through two, if not three, name changes since the last purchase. Friggin' Razer jacking up the price...

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If someone wanted the best

If someone wanted the best controllers for a racing game, they would get a steering wheel and pedals. If they wanted the best controller for a flight sim they would get a joystick and throttle. This is not to say that a keyboard can't also operate those games perfectly well. But the optimized solution takes into account more than just whether or not there are enough keys, but also the ergonomics and intuitive nature of the control scheme. It just seems natural that if someone wanted the best controller for an MMORPG, there should also be some solution that is more than just an unadulturated keyboard. I don't know if our Nostromo (Tartarus V2) solution is the most optimized solution; but when it comes to running and flying around in a 3D world while simultaneously targeting and activating powers, it sure beats just a plain keyboard and a mouse.

Now whether or not an XBOX or PS controller will be better is another question. You said you tried that once and ran out of buttons (there are 28 buttons on an xbox controller if you count both analog sticks and the dpad). Doesn't surprise me at all for a game like this. Games like TERA and FFXIV were designed from the ground up to operate with controllers, but this one isn't. Maybe there are other peripherals like pedals he can use to act as shift, ctr, alt, and other modifying keys so he can multiply the number of commands he can give through his controller.

As long as he can keybind them, I'm all for him trying whatever solution works best for him. I know what I'm going to try first.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

If someone wanted the best controllers for a racing game, they would get a steering wheel and pedals. If they wanted the best controller for a flight sim they would get a joystick and throttle. This is not to say that a keyboard can't also operate those games perfectly well. But the optimized solution takes into account more than just whether or not there are enough keys, but also the ergonomics and intuitive nature of the control scheme. It just seems natural that if someone wanted the best controller for an MMORPG, there should also be some solution that is more than just an unadulturated keyboard. I don't know if our Nostromo (Tartarus V2) solution is the most optimized solution; but when it comes to running and flying around in a 3D world while simultaneously targeting and activating powers, it sure beats just a plain keyboard and a mouse.

In your opinion... That was the only point I was making here.

For the record I have actually tried several "controller solutions" over the years that were supposedly more appropriate for MMORPGs than just a plain keyboard and mouse, some from the very companies you've cited here. All of them so far (for me at least) have been total wastes of money for various reasons. If I hadn't already gotten rid of them long ago I could have easily been motivated to mail them to you considering you might have actually gotten some use out of them.

As always YMMV. Stop making generalized claims about things that do not (or even can not) apply to everyone. I'm happy you've found a controller scheme that works for you - but just because it works for you doesn't make it the "optimized solution" for everyone. As Cobalt Azurean implied they are not the "silver bullet" that works for everyone.

Huckleberry wrote:

Now whether or not an XBOX or PS controller will be better is another question.

To be clear I have never tried to use a "console controller" on a PC. My opinion is that a console controller is just about the worst kind of hardware you could use for a typical MMORPG for all sorts of reasons. But again that's just my opinion - I'm not and have never tried to make any claims that people should play games exactly the same way I do.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012