What do we know? What is the status on this awesome feature? Are videos somewhere down the pipe?
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As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
Mon, 10/22/2018 - 18:02
#1
Pet Char Gen
Pets arent slated for launch, right? So I wouldn't think they've gotten far on the pet chargen, if they've even started it. Unless they can use the character chargen. Either way...I bet that's a ways down the road after launch.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
Well I think we can safely say that "Commander Henchmen" (which will hopefully be customizable when they come) [b]will not[/b] be around at launch. I figure it's highly likely that "Operator Pets" (which would likely -not- be customizable) [b]will[/b] be around at launch.
Just saying we need to be a bit more careful when we're talking about these things because there was a big difference between the two in CoH and there's no reason to think the same won't be true in CoT.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Operator pets won’t be at launch either. The level cap at launch being 30 at launch means those higher tier powers aren’t yet unlocked. This is on purpose to give us more time to get pet basic pet AI working which is then a stepping off point for Commander pets.
Since pets are “Powers” inneither case, they need to have customization to fit with the aesthetics chosen with the rest of the set powers.
We have the basic pet models already. They aren’t as customizable as player characters are by a long stretch but they can be customized in a more limited manner.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Ah yes I forgot about the temporary level cap at 30 and the "Tier 9" Operator pet powers being beyond that cap. I was just thinking more simply that Operators [b]would[/b] exist at launch versus Commanders not existing at all.
But at least my mistake here "tricked" you into posting more info. From what you've just said it sounds like you might be allowing for a large amount of customization of Operator Pets as well as Commander Henchmen... is that correct? To be clear I don't just mean "changing Fire Imps to be blue" like CoH allowed for - I'm asking will we have as much freedom to customize Operator Pets (i.e. costumes, size/shape, etc.) as we will have with Commander Henchmen or will there still actually be a fundamental "difference" between the two?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
That's already a lot more than other games ^^
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The only thing Incan say with any certainty is that both Operators’ and Commanders’ pet models are the same basic model.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That's cool. If they are sharing the same body model then it definitely sounds like they are going to be far more "game mechanically" alike than they were in CoH. I guess the only real difference between them in CoT will be the "direct control" quality of Commander Henchmen versus the "fire and forget" quality of the Operator Pets. Beyond that it sounds like they both will share the same degree of "cosmetic customizability".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You heard it here folks, all pets are glowing orbs like Gravity Control's singularity! Choose color, element and aura type. :P
In all seriousness, I look forward to seeing what the system can do. CoV had an issue where 2 masterminds with the same primary had difficulty telling their pets apart. It will be nice to have some control over the looks.
I'm curious... and maybe this is answered in the previews of powers that we've had. In CoH, *some* pets were available before level 32... specifically Phantom Army for Illusion Controllers.
Are there then no plans for any similar short duration pets that will be available for any of the launch classes?
Yes, but they are more lsimplistic than even the tier 9 pets. They don’t have Melee powers for example. The very basic routine of follow the originator (tether range, basic movement) and attack target when in range. Again something of a baby step toward more functional pets.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Thanks, Tannim. That makes sense.
I can see how implementing a rudimentary AI for that sort of pet would be a simpler programming task than what would be required for other pet types.
As Tannim implied even though those "sub tier 9" powers manifested as "critter-like" entities they weren't really pets in the sense that they had HPs or were independent MOBs in any way. In effect they were arguably more like Carrion Creepers in that they were "psuedo-pets" at best.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Yeah I had immediately thought of Electrical Blast's Voltaic Sentinel: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Electrical_Blast#Voltaic_Sentinel
Which was a very, very undervalued ability in that you could pull groups from around corners and effectively mitigate the alpha aggro strike, because it was untargetable.
A "pet" by definitely being a thing you summoned.. that did other things.
Just realized from the sneak peek powers on this site that they already mention some pseudo pets:
[b]Power Control[/b]
[i]Obstruction (tier 6)[/i]: You summon a physical obstruction within medial range to impede your enemy from attacking. It will have a medial amount of hit points and can be destroyed. However, anyone who treads near it will have their movement reduced and power resource debuffed. Recharge Extremely Long.
[b]Illusions[/b]
[i]Illusionary Images (tier 5)[/i]: You summon a pair of temporary images which remain near you for a long duration and will attack your enemies with ranged very light exotic damage attacks and taunting them for a very short period of time. You will continue to create additional pairs of images as you improve in levels. Because this images aren’t real, they can’t be harmed, but you also have no control over your enemies’ perceptions and thus, little control over which enemy is attacked if there is more than one enemy in the area. Recharge Extremely Long.
[b]Force Control[/b]
[i]Reflective Barrier (tier 5)[/i]: You summon a physical object which can block off an area within medial range. Enemies will either have to climb over it or around if there is room. Otherwise, their only course of action would be to wait until it is no longer in their way, or destroy it. However, Reflective Barrier is fairly sturdy having medial hit points and will also redirect a portion of damage it receives back to its attackers. Recharge Extremely Long.
Well 2 of those are objects in the literal sense. The coding involves spawning an object for the Power Control and Force Control Powers.
The Illusion power however can involve a basic AI pet.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Yeah this is where the definition of "pet" gets a little vague. Based on the description for the Illusion power in question you could easily describe what gets summoned as "a number of floating automatic gun turrets that just happen to be human shaped". ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Once you get into movement and aggro mechanics you’re dealing with basic AI.
The other two have no AI decision trees in order to function. They are objects.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
That's pretty much how I designed and played my Electric Control / Storm Summoning / Mu Mastery Controller. I rolled him as an experiment to see whether I could holding a door solo in BAF Incarnate Trial with minimal Incarnate abilities (I could). Sure, I could summon pets, but they pretty much did whatever the hell they wanted from that point forward. And that's exactly how I wanted it because pet management isn't for everyone. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be AI controls available to the summoner, there absolutely should, but not every pet should require or be designed around having one.
Again this is my point. I didn't say that "floating automatic gun turrets" didn't need some kind of "basic AI" to control them. I would simply quibble at the idea of strictly calling them full-blown "pets". Thus the "vagueness" I was talking about.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
ugh... This still does not sit right with me.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
Why not? Think of it as a Wall of Thorns.
I think he means the use of the word "medial" instead of "medium" or "moderate".
As Interdictor said I think I recall Planet10 has a problem with the use of the word "medial" in this context. At least I remember that someone on this forum has commented on its use in the past and the fact that Planet10 put that word in italics makes me think that was the deal here.
I'll even admit it's a somewhat unusual word to be used outside of purely math/science venues but otherwise it's being used in a reasonable manner here when describing "game mechanical" information.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Medial: average, mean, middle. Makes perfect sense to me to use that term when talking numbers and the formulas/algorithms that are going to be manipulating said numbers.
It's better not to say average when average is going to dependant on the results of multiple complex calculations.
I think the counter argument is that most people don't know the term medial, to which the word average and/or medium are more widely known. Like saying "Petrichor" over "The smell of rain".
Medial is more accurate yes, but new players and youtubers are going to read over their abilities and ask what the **** medial is.
Unless there's mass feedback in the betas however, I think Medial is still the intended term to use, partly due to it's very specific meaning being useful during development.
Sure it may be a relatively uncommon word in everyday parlance. But frankly if something like this forces somebody to have to learn a new word then I don't really have a problem with it. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
medial is a word mostly reserved for topics involving symmetry or spacial representation. Its use as "average, mean, middle" is arcane at best. When used in relation to numbers, it is reserved to represent the number that is exactly between two others. So while it is a bit of a stretch to use it the way MWM uses it, it is still a stretch. And in my opinion, it is not worthy of the discomfiture it causes by its use here.
For example, we are trying to use it in a relational situation when comparing it to something smaller and something larger. Medial is not a good word in this context. One does not go to McDonalds and ask for a medial coke. That is inappropriate. Rather, the word medium is used to refer to a characteristic somewhere between small and large without care for the exactness of the fluid volume. Having said that, someone could examine the fluid volume of a small 12 oz. medium 16 oz. and large 20 oz. and be perfectly correct in stating that the medium drink is medial between the small and large. But I hope we all can see the difference in context here.
If MWM is stating that it has medial range, and they are not refering to symmetry or spatial context, then thay are saying that it is exactly numerically between the smaller and larger options. If this is what they intend to say, then I suppose it is the correct usage of the word.
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I hate having to explain why this word exists. I personally don’t care for it but it was the only one that was accepted as a compromise. One dev at the time refused to accept any terminology which was in direct reference to anything from the old game. Note my wording there at the end, yes if I used CoH in a sentence the response wouldn’t e very harsh.
That removed “moderate” as a possibility. Average and medium were out because of issues the represented in terms of math and what we were trying to discuses.
So when you consider the following definition: relating to or situated in or [i]extending toward the middle[/i].
Especially the second part I emphasized, this was the term everyone at the time found acceptable. It was placed into our descriptive keys legend and used in ever thing we referred to in powers. It is what it is now.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
The main friction isn't whether or not the word is used correctly (At least that is the impression I've been getting). It's that the word is replacing commonly accepted terms used for the same exact purpose while adding no value in communication. This is especially weird in the more straightforward technical writing style that is typically used for quickly conveying specific information in design documents, memos, and patch notes. The whole point is to be fast and effective, the complete opposite of dramatic or creative writing where you want to paint pictures with your words and use exciting vocabulary.
I say this as someone that both does a lot of technical writing, and greatly enjoys recreational reading. There is a big difference between the two styles of writing if you want to do them right. Nobody makes HBO series out of bullet pointed memos, and nobody wants their bullet pointed memos to be misunderstood or ignored because they were arcane or overly long.
e: Tannim's point is an interesting insight.
Sadly this has not been the first time Tannim has chosen to "explain/defend" the usage of the word in question for CoT. Frankly quibbling over the usage of such a word is fast approaching "angels dancing on the head of a pin" territory in terms of the basic futility of worrying about it one way or the other. And I'm saying that as a person whose generally enjoys arguments about certain kinds of angels dancing on certain kinds of pins from time to time...
Do we all agree it's a slightly weird word to use in this context? Yes.
Do we all basically understand the fundamental concept the Devs are trying to describe with the word? Yes.
Can we all just move past this particular hang-up and on to more meaningful arguments, debates, rants, etc.?
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Actually sounds like DCUO char gen.
Thanks for the info Tannim.
Are models referring to body-types, or a more technical dev term that goes beyond the scope of an average player like myself whom is not into development? Interesting info, and naturally, any little drop of info leads to more questions. Maybe this is why many devs stay mum on certain topics lol. This is an very intriguing feature, regardless of how limited it is. I for one have never seen this in other games. Dragon Prophet came close.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
You mean like musing on the topic of adding exclusive badges to Issue #0? ;P (winky face just to be totally and completely clear)
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
At least that badge related topic has something to do with how the game will be designed/presented. The supposed "argument" over the usage of a marginally appropriate word is infinitely more unproductive by comparison. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I get it, I understand your pain. It however does not change my feelings on the issue. Having absolutely no shared terminology with the old game is a difficult task, especially since they (to my knowledge) did not patent or trademark or enlist whatever legal BS to restrict common usage words from ever being used ever again in a computer game.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I do not care about badges (and their exclusivity) much like you do not care about this terminology. Your minimization of the argument does not help address the issue. The words that appear in the game in fact do impact how it is designed & represented. It is much more likely that new users will come across this terminology way before they encounter any badges. The terminology will help them make semi-educated guesses about how to design the powers they will use. If they don't understand it, fine they can just look it up and maybe they will learn something in the process. But in doing so, design choices (i.e. the wording) has taken the user out of the context of creating their character. A disjoint like that can flavor how they perceive the game and its creators.
And to be clear, I care about you and your friends when it comes to badge exclusivity. If it is a problem for you, designing around it is something that should be done upfront and making the problem known now is how it should be handled.
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I simply see these things in terms a spectrum of priority and how easy it would be to "adapt" to them.
Sure "medial" is a funny, weird word and its use in this game may (in an incredibly worse case scenario) confuse/annoy some players. But eventually players will be able to "work around" and/or overlook its use in whatever way they want. Even assuming the Devs of CoT [b]don't[/b] stop using it players can and will still "figure it out" and move on. It's not like that word is going to be splashed all over your GUIs constantly.
On the other hand a permanently exclusive badge, item, power, etc. is not something you can easily "forget" about or "fix" if it's something that bothers you.
I suppose in a perfect game both these problems could be fixed. I just know which one I could "live with" and which one I'd prefer "not to live with".
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
'Medial' is an anatomical adjective, in my experience.
Be Well!
Fireheart
Same here. Their use of the term, "medial" reminds me of an old receiver I once had where the volume control numbers were wacky. I get that there was a technical reason for the numbers to be the way they were. But it never stopped seeming weird.
I'll point out that several gaming terms we've come to know and embrace were once considered extremely weird. A good example of this is "Polymorph". Another is "Gelatinous".
The situation as it stands likely isn't to change. It's something you've gotta get used to, and frankly it's not incorrect, so there's very little reason for them to even want to change it when it'd be taking time away from doing actual work to go back and change all the mentions of Medial.
On top of that, that's nowhere close to the topic of this thread, right? Can we get back to pet customization?
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
What types of activities do you codify as being "actual work" and what parts are frivolous?
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
No. I'm not getting swept up in this debacle any more than I already have.
Back on topic, I'm desperately hoping that there's some animal shapes for pet customization. Getting things like a wolf or wyvern would be a godsend for a few of my character ideas, and I'd have a lot of fun with them.
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
Tannim has said all pets currently have the same base model, so launch options may be limited to things of human figure. Even City of Heroes took years to allow animal pets, but something I would hope for post launch for sure.
I guess that means I'll just have to go with my necromancer idea before I get to the wyvern rider. Ah well!
An infinite number of tries doesn't mean that any one of those tries will succeed. I could flip an infinite number of pennies an infinite number of times and, barring genuine randomness, they will never come up "Waffles".
One thing I am curious about is what types of movement will be possible for pets.
And by that I mean will they only walk around on the ground? Would it be possible to have them float or fly? Or like wisps, flit around in a semi-teleport manner. Maybe a frog-like hop. Or possibly a zombie walk (could maybe double for hypnotic state).
"Just, well, update your kickstarter email addresses, okay? Make sure they're current?" - warcabbit
I doubt it since the same basic system will be used to generate PCs, NPCs, and pets (different rule-sets and UIs between them though), and I can't see them not having any other body model than humanoid at this point. If they have a basic feline or canine body model for wildlife or similar then it would be fairly easy to add it to the pet creator's rule-set. Something in my head tells me that it has been stated that we'll get more than just humanoid body models when Commander launches but I can't find the post, though it was also stated we'll get (highly?) reduced options for humanoid pets compared to PC costumes.
The comparison to CoH isn't really fair imo due to how closely the sets (all of them) were coupled with the aesthetics, so I doubt it was the body models that prevented Beast Mastery from coming sooner.
How hard would it be for MWM to 'hire out' for things like pet models? I'm assuming it's probably not an option...but if they specified all the parameters and everything else they would need could it be a viable option? I'm sure there are some unreal 4 modelers out there willing to do some side hustles. But again, maybe this isnt an option, I'm not familiar enough with UR4.
Compulsively clicking the refresh button until the next update.
You'd almost think that by now generic animal body models for UE4 (things like dogs or horses) would be something that you could get directly from Unreal. Sure they'd likely cost extra money which, for what it's worth, might be the only thing limiting MWM from using them at this point. *shrugs*
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
We have animal modes already. Getting those aren’t much of an issue. Getting proper them to be customized is another matter. Gettting them to operate efficiently (marking sure they aren’t using too many polygons, have too many issues with animations, etc) is yet another matter. Some may not even have proper animations (horses for example are notoriously given incorrect movment animations). Nothing is ever simple.
[hr]I don't use a nerf bat, I have a magic crowbar!
- Combat Mechanic -
[color=#ff0000]Tech Team. [/color]
Yeah I didn't assume it was going to be "easy" otherwise you'd already be hinting at "non-humanoid" pets for launch. Just making the point that there's got to be at least some amount of content that you don't have to completely 100% "reinvent the wheel" to get.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Got it, thanks.
As a child, I thought my name was handsome, cause that is what everyone called me.
That is a good question, a variety of pet movement options would go even further to making a unique character than the expected customization. This could be used for RP or sticking with a characters theme. ie: Teleporting Toon, Teleporting Pet
Halae also brought up another idea/option: Pets AS transportation (Wyvern Rider)
Yeah, you could just make that your Travel Power, but that’s not the same as Summoning a Minion/Pet, using it in combat, or riding it into combat for that aerial sneak attack! Possibly with buffs/debuffs for doing so (gain an advantage for Your Attacks by riding, but lose the use of the pet as an attacker)
Also, “Ride The Tiger...” theme music in your head doesn’t hurt...and then that GoT theme song for Dragonfolk...and then ... and then ... and then
Meh. Bah!