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The Other Half of The City of Titans

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Empyrean
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The Other Half of The City of Titans

Edit: After having an inordinate amount of trouble organizing my thoughts, I re-titled my second thread. It's a bit embarrassing to have flubbed so much, but I feel strongly enough about the subject to keep trying.

(Thank you, Halae for kindly and gently correcting my ignorance in the original thread that this one is replacing.)

I spent almost as much time writing and arranging my characters' bio on VirtueVerse (http://virtueverse.net/wiki/The_Prime_Empyrean), researching on Titan Network and Paragon Wiki, making theme-based yet powerful builds in Mids for me and my wife and son (last Mids design for Empyrean posted at the end in case anyone is interested), and eventually researching mods and addons, as I did actually playing City of Heroes.

This was, in effect, the "other half" of the game for me.

CoH had a rich range of interesting and fun fan-created activities outside of the game itself, which expanded the game and helped in keeping City of Heroes fun and engaging over the years. I know some of this will happen automatically, but how can MWM encourage and possibly even support these types of things for City of Titans?

For example, could/should MWM actually develop and integrate some of these things, perhaps even for mobile as they're considering for the costume creator? Or should they just be very amenable to allowing, encouraging, and supporting fan-creation and integration of them.

And which ones are most important for us to have?

-

Last Mids code for Empyrean:

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1579;728;1456;HEX;|
|78DA6554DB4E1351143DD3192CBD405BDA72A7F422941618A81A131F8C21522E869|
|A1178F1C134158FD0D80C648A893CFA016AA2893E1822F1037C33F1518CB73FF0FA|
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|82A4264E5C012E33B6AF30EED3FA0AD6579214A4692EC6E81D062618FD3D8A5DC74|
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|4B874E6E8C757F8E385579C8F7CBFF88B1F331F009A3E1B51DD9354B8EF8BA23BEE|
|6883F87290D712A7214CF39F928C5E8E89E83FF0F6E74FEFC|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Huckleberry
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Damn you Empyrean, I had a

Damn you Empyrean, I had a marvelous response to your previous thread that was witty and erudite and would have added energy to the conversation , but when I pressed the POST button, you had deleted the thread. Now, like waking from a dream , I can no longer recreate the perfection I had achieved in that previous post that was aborted before it could be given birth.

I love wikis. When a game is as complex as these MMORPGs are, sometimes you just need a wiki to explain that bit you need here and there. I've heard some game designers say that if you need to go outside the game to learn how to play the game that is a failure of the game designer. I suppose that's true, but there's something that's just user-friendly about a wiki. Just be sure to keep spoilers covered up.

I also like character skill builders. I can play for hours putting together a character on a third-party skill calculator, chomping at the bit to put that character into the game and try it out.

I love that so many game supporting 3rd party apps are available on mobile devices now. I strongly recommend, however, that we do NOT make a mobile device a part of the game. Playing aids are one thing, but a playing advantage or a gate requiring a mobile device are another thing altogether, and I would not want that.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Empyrean
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Damn you Empyrean,

LOL, I got a mental image of you shaking your fist and screaming that to the sky like Shatner.

But I had completely misused the term metagame and I just couldn't bring myself to leave my ignorance hanging out there for all to see as a thread title.

If it's any consolation, I do think your response added energy to the conversation :).

You know, Halae had good points too in her post. In hindsight I shouldn't have erased the thread and started over, I should have just renamed it :(.

So just to clarify, I assume--and correct me if I'm wrong--that you don't object to things being mobile compatible or having a mobile version, just that they not be mobile based and mobile-only?

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Huckleberry
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Empyrean wrote:
Empyrean wrote:

Huckleberry wrote:
Damn you Empyrean,
LOL, I got a mental image of you shaking your fist and screaming that to the sky like Shatner.
But I had completely misused the term metagame and I just couldn't bring myself to leave my ignorance out there as a thread title. If it's any consolation, I do think your response added energy to the conversation :).
You know, Halae had good points too in her post. In hindsight I shouldn't have erased the thread and started over, I should have just renamed it :(.
So just to clarify, I assume--and correct me if I'm wrong--that you don't object to things being mobile compatible or having a mobile version, just that they not be mobile based and mobile-only?

I don't object to anything being mobile based or mobile only, I would only object if mobile-only things were also necessary for the game or enabled you to do something in the game that someone without the mobile app could not also do.

So a skills calculator, an app that allowed you to solve an in-game puzzle faster (say hello SWTOR Pylons app), or even an app to help you run your guild would all be fine. But if you needed your mobile to play a mobile-only minigame that resurrects you faster or without a penalty, or if crafting could only be done on a mobile app, I would say no!


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Radiac
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I just hope the actual system

I just hope the actual system of Augments and Refinements we ultimately get is as deep and rich and diverse as the IO system was. Some people complain about complexity in that part of the game or that it makes the game too gear-centric, but I like having a reasonably flexible but also complex and diverse system of stats etc to pour over and wade into. I was never really perfect in my builds, and I only ever made a poor-and-lazy man's attempt at completing any toon's build, and probably got it wrong at that, but I enjoyed it.

So what I'm saying is, let's not make the system so basic and easy to figure out that it amounts to "you just put damage enhancers in everything that can take them" like the first few months of CoH did. If you're going to have IO-level craftables from day 1, have a diverse, deep system of them which can be tuned to different needs and not just min-maxxed for everyone the same way easily in a few minutes of thinking about it.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Empyrean
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I don't object to anything being mobile based or mobile only, I would only object if mobile-only things were also necessary for the game or enabled you to do something in the game that someone without the mobile app could not also do.
So a skills calculator, an app that allowed you to solve an in-game puzzle faster (say hello SWTOR Pylons app), or even an app to help you run your guild would all be fine. But if you needed your mobile to play a mobile-only minigame that resurrects you faster or without a penalty, or if crafting could only be done on a mobile app, I would say no!

Understood. Agreed.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

Impulse King
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I just hope the actual system of Augments and Refinements we ultimately get is as deep and rich and diverse as the IO system was. Some people complain about complexity in that part of the game or that it makes the game too gear-centric, but I like having a reasonably flexible but also complex and diverse system of stats etc to pour over and wade into. I was never really perfect in my builds, and I only ever made a poor-and-lazy man's attempt at completing any toon's build, and probably got it wrong at that, but I enjoyed it.
So what I'm saying is, let's not make the system so basic and easy to figure out that it amounts to "you just put damage enhancers in everything that can take them" like the first few months of CoH did. If you're going to have IO-level craftables from day 1, have a diverse, deep system of them which can be tuned to different needs and not just min-maxxed for everyone the same way easily in a few minutes of thinking about it.

The IO system was pretty darn neat. But to be honest my favorite part of it was that it was optional. I wouldn't dream of denying an IO system to those that want it, but I would humbly request that something like the TO/DO/SO simpler system was available as well.

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IOs came in plain vanilla

IOs came in plain vanilla versions, too. I'd prefer that stability, to the cascading plateaus of the TO/DO/SO system. Plus, those IOs are even simpler.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Empyrean
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I agree, making crafting

I agree, making crafting/complex advanced building optional is important. Making simple builds viable allows people to play the way they like.

Scranker was my main playstyle--even after Brutes came out--so I highly leveraged the additional bonuses of exotic IO's because I built on a tank chassis but mainly for solo, so I needed to be able to really tweak performance.

But once I got the hang of it, I had fun learning to build for my son, who tended to play blasters, and my wife, who tended to play defenders. I spend many, many hours bouncing between Mids and Paragon Wiki perfecting builds.

It was really more about being able to customize so that playstyle fit theme than performance. And I just enjoyed the tinkering.

FIGHT EVIL! (or go cause trouble so the Heroes have something to do.)

dreamcatcher
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TOs/DOs were largely

TOs/DOs were largely pointless after your first character, partly because they made content easier and partly because SOs/IOs. SOs still had purpose because they were a cheap and nasty alternative to IOs. Of course, so were TOs/DOs, but after a little bit you had more than enough Inf to at least just go with SOs and be done with it. I think MWM should have options but avoid over-engineering. They're lucky in that CoH has already 'tested' some concepts and they have live player feedback, both first- and second-hand, to draw on.

Personally, I loved IOs and Mid's. I spent entire days on a Mid's build for one character and created multiple versions of that character, trying to find the best fit for my concept while also being as effective as I felt I needed to be. Sometimes I would be tweaking some tiny stat for hours and sometimes I'd do a total overhaul, based on a new power set idea. That really enriched the game for me, at one point.

I loved that I had that option, but my friends, who cared less about such things, could just ignore that aspect of the game and do some basic stuff and still be viable.

of Phoenix Rising
Am I

Radiac
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Assuming there will be the

Assuming there will be the "difficulty level NPC" like CoX had, I think, like in CoX, the only effect that your build has on you is that a really good one will allow you to up your personal difficulty in solo missions, while a less-then-awesome build will cause you to stick with "normal" difficulty.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising