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Is This Net Nutrality Issue going to hurt City of Titans?

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Hyperbolt
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Is This Net Nutrality Issue going to hurt City of Titans?

Apparently after April the whole Net Neutrality stuff I've been hearing about recently is going to take effect. This sounds like bad news for things all over the Internet. I'm afraid that If it stays then the Internet will be too expensive to play City of Titans. Can anyone shed more light on the subject?

I accidently ate a bowl of radioactive soup....ok I guess that makes me a Soup-er Hero

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No one will know until it

No one will know until it actually happens.

The question is really, do you trust corporations? We already know they weren't doing things to improve net access before (seriously, 3rd world countries have better internet than we have :p) but does anyone really think that will change with the idea that "It opens things up with capitalism"

Capitalism works, but it needs morals to make it work. :p Right now, I'd say most of those in charge of corporations lack those.

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There's already a thread here

There's already a thread here (https://cityoftitans.com/forum/loss-net-neutrality-and-indie-mmorpgs-how-will-we-be-affected) discussing the topic that went on way too long and got a lot more political than many wished.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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I seriously doubt it will

I seriously doubt it will become too expensive to play CoT since they are not big enough to be a target of the ISP's. Also consider that the ISP's will have to balance these "extra cost" they may saddle other sites and service providers with or people will just stop using those sites or services, thus lowering the appeal of having higher tier connections or even having an internet connection at all.

Besides there are legal battles to come. Lots of states will try to impose their own versions, and I think there is going to an attempt to get the vote for NN repeal invalidated.

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Burger King, of all things,

Burger King, of all things, made a good video explaining the issue:

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I just read a thing about the

I just read a thing about the Burger King thing :O

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Q) Is This Net Nutrality

Q) Is This Net Nutrality Issue going to hurt City of Titans?
A) No. You won't notice a thing.

Doctor Tyche
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Truth is, we don't know. We

Truth is, we don't know. We will not know likely for many more months.

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Probably no more than Net

Probably no more than Net Neutrality will hurt the use of the internet for all you 'muricans.

I'm more worried about what kind of costs will be imposed on MWM for hosting a game.

Hopefully it'll get repealed before you guys get the worst of it.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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The Burger King thing was

The Burger King thing was already posted in this very thread :O

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Now, what we don't know, is

Now, what we don't know, is if that will happen, but it is the thing everyone is afraid will happen.

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Some things have already been

Some things have already been happening if this story a fellow forum user linked me is accurate.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/05/pirates-risk-being-left-in-the-cold/

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jtpaull
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Some things have already been happening if this story a fellow forum user linked me is accurate.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/05/pirates-risk-being-left-in-the-cold/

LOL. That article is satire, right?

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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I have no idea. Why do you

I have no idea. Why do you ask?

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jtpaull
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I have no idea. Why do you ask?

Despite putting in a response by Nest saying that their thermostats will still work, with or without an internet connect, the article is insinuating that 1.) net neutrality will kill the elderly in blizzards because their thermostats wont work and 2.)by the way they worded the title they make it seem like ISP will take over and control your thermostats. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that it's satire.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

Project_Hero
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jtpaull wrote:
jtpaull wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I have no idea. Why do you ask?

Despite putting in a response by Nest saying that their thermostats will still work, with or without an internet connect, the article is insinuating that 1.) net neutrality will kill the elderly in blizzards because their thermostats wont work and 2.)by the way they worded the title they make it seem like ISP will take over and control your thermostats. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that it's satire.

The first point is likely just the writer not knowing exactly how these thermostats work. Which also goes into the second point.

The parts about it that stands out to me is that they'll throttle a connection on the suspicion of piracy. Or that if you go over your limit in a modern the they'd throttle your connection for the following month. And there may be right to worry when it comes to things requiring a stable connection to function.

It's still too soon to really tell, but I for one hope that the states gets net neutrality back, and soon.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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It is January. There has been

It is January. There has been a lot of winter weather in the US and no one has died. Looks like the bogus story is just scare mongering.
like I said before, nothing will happen.

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This again? Oy.

This again? Oy.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

It is January. There has been a lot of winter weather in the US and no one has died. Looks like the bogus story is just scare mongering.
like I said before, nothing will happen.

Yes, I'm sure giant institutions that exist solely to make money who wanted to get rid of net neutrality for some reason will in NO WAY use the lack of net neutrality to make more money. Sure. Surely they wanted to be rid of net neutrality for some other reasons, right? Can you name three reasons other than to make more money why they'd want to get rid of net neutrality? Because I sure as hell can't.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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no way am I going to be drawn

no way am I going to be drawn into a debate after the deed has been done: Its a moot point.

The repeal is real, and it will not change.
Time to deal with reality, and the fact that its been months and NO CHANGES HAVE HAPPENED.

the scaremongering is just that - scaremongering. Net Neutrality fixed a problem that did not exist. you will so no changes.

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The problem -DID- exist there

The problem -DID- exist there were reported instances of companies throttling connections for various reasons.

And yes, it can change. There's a bunch of people fighting to get net neutrality back.

It changed once and was changed back, what on earth makes you think it can't be redone?

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Well, Montana and New York

Well, Montana and New York have already issued executive orders enforcing net neutrality in those states (with more laws pending in other states such as Nebraska and California), and 20-something states' attorney generals are suing the FCC. Plus there is a lot of pressure being put on Congress by virtually every big business in the US who is not an ISP. Not to mention the vast majority of Americans of all political bents support Net Neutrality rules. It's certainly not a done deal at this point. We will have to see what happens in the coming months.

And yes - there WERE reasons the US feds put those rules in place a few years ago - the ISPs were found in a few cases to be abusing their virtual monopolies. To think that they will not do this again in the future, without some kind of oversight or a major change in coverage or competition, is quite frankly naive.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

no way am I going to be drawn into a debate after the deed has been done: Its a moot point.

The repeal is real, and it will not change.
Time to deal with reality, and the fact that its been months and NO CHANGES HAVE HAPPENED.

the scaremongering is just that - scaremongering. Net Neutrality fixed a problem that did not exist. you will so no changes.

For one thing, did you really think that the only changes they can make would be huge sweeping ones and that those could only be done right after the change? ISP's are not dumb in this regard, they will wait for most of this to blow over before they make big changes but if you think that they will not, eventually, take advantage of a regulatory framework that essentially boils down to "don't lie" then you are an idiot.

And it's not over. Seem to remember that there was/is a procedure filed (CAC?) to have this change rolled back due to not fully following procedure and not fully justifying the change. Then we have the state level stuff that is in the works so the FCC dropping NN may effectively be a moot point.

However, the biggest point you are missing is that the "old" rules are still in effect. NN will not be officially dropped until 60 days after the rules changes have been officially filed, and last I heard (16th Jan) that filing had not happened since they were still writing it (finalizing exact details). Even though the FCC has said they won't enforce current NN rules ISP's are still vary of breaking them since they don't want to be dragged into civil court over it.
What guaranty can you give that no changes will ever happen (at least outside of what is considered standard for them)?

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Just to add : in France,

Just to add : in France, Francois De Rugy, our president of the national assembly (which votes the laws) said he want to propose a new law to integer the net neutrality inside the constitution itself :)
If the neutrality in the US is deactivated, come in france or even in EU (or UK) if you are a start-upper.


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jtpaull
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

but if you think that they will not, eventually, take advantage of a regulatory framework that essentially boils down to "don't lie" then you are an idiot.

We can be civil with differing opinions and not have to resort to insulting someone's intelligence.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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Doctor Tyche wrote:
Doctor Tyche wrote:

Burger King, of all things, made a good video explaining the issue:

I loved how at the end of the vid they had the Burger King drinking from that same ridiculously silly coffee cup that Ajit Pai seems to like.

All the idiot (Pai in this case) managed to do is have many states begin to institute their own Net Neutrality legislation. Now something that ought to be universal will become piecemeal across the county. ISPs are now going to have to make sure their net throttling features comply with the various laws of their users in 50 different states which will only make the Internet cost more for everyone. In an age where some countries are enshrining Net Neutrality laws into their respective Constitutions we're racing for the likes of the 19th century with new Internet robber barons calling the shots for all of us. *sigh*

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I need a cup like that for my

I need a cup like that for my tea.

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

It is January. There has been a lot of winter weather in the US and no one has died. Looks like the bogus story is just scare mongering.
like I said before, nothing will happen.

Going by the story, whether satire or real, even it pointed out, "Well, they could just adjust it at the dial in the house."

The internet aspect is just a matter of "Awwww...I can't have the house warm when I arrive." :p Like those who can start their car on their phones.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

no way am I going to be drawn into a debate after the deed has been done: Its a moot point.

The repeal is real, and it will not change.
Time to deal with reality, and the fact that its been months and NO CHANGES HAVE HAPPENED.

the scaremongering is just that - scaremongering. Net Neutrality fixed a problem that did not exist. you will so no changes.

For one thing, did you really think that the only changes they can make would be huge sweeping ones and that those could only be done right after the change? ISP's are not dumb in this regard, they will wait for most of this to blow over before they make big changes but if you think that they will not, eventually, take advantage of a regulatory framework that essentially boils down to "don't lie" then you are an idiot.

And it's not over. Seem to remember that there was/is a procedure filed (CAC?) to have this change rolled back due to not fully following procedure and not fully justifying the change. Then we have the state level stuff that is in the works so the FCC dropping NN may effectively be a moot point.

However, the biggest point you are missing is that the "old" rules are still in effect. NN will not be officially dropped until 60 days after the rules changes have been officially filed, and last I heard (16th Jan) that filing had not happened since they were still writing it (finalizing exact details). Even though the FCC has said they won't enforce current NN rules ISP's are still vary of breaking them since they don't want to be dragged into civil court over it.
What guaranty can you give that no changes will ever happen (at least outside of what is considered standard for them)?

As the capitalist I am, even I know corporations will screw over the people if given the chance. Capitalism works, but it needs common sense and some morals. Right now, not many corporations have either of those. So laws need to be in place to stop them from screwing people over. It's sad, but true.

These groups want to take people's money. As MMO players, I can't believe anyone would not see it any other way, really. Look at what MMOs are doing now. F2P! Except...NOT! :p Which, I don't expect an actual F2P game myself, but I know they likely can't rely on just people paying for costumes to be enough for a game either :/

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I wrote a whole college paper

I wrote a whole college paper on how Corporations simply don't have the Ability to be moral or responsible - that's a human trait.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Capitalism sets prices that

Capitalism sets prices that the market will bear.
The market will not bear a $90 extra fee to get the same internet service you now get for $20.

Like I said, nothing will happen. just wait and see.

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But the market will bear a

But the market will bear a $20 base fee, then a $5 fee for certain sites at a premium speed, then another $5 for Netflix and/or other streaming services at a premium speed, and then another $5 for some other sites/services at a premium speed, etc etc etc.

Remember it's not about making customers pay more, it's about giving the customers choice!

Same as they don't charge over $100 for a video game, but after buying all the dlc that was hacked from the game you end up paying that much, oh and that's before microtransactions.

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Booga Booga. Its all gonna

Booga Booga. Its all gonna burn. Run for the hills!
Paranoia can be a fun hobby.

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How exactly is it paranoia

How exactly is it paranoia when it has happened before and likely will again?

How is it paranoia when whenever you give companies an inch they take miles?

Remember when microtransactions were no big deal because they were just cosmetic? Or when DLC actually expanded upon a base game rather than being obviously things removed from it repackaged and resold? Now we have EA's Battlefront 2 something shipped at full price just to push microtransactions.

And if you think the ISPs aren't going to be gouging people as much as they think they can get away with... I just have to ask, why? What is stopping them? Some of them literally have no competition in certain areas. When you're the only show in town you can do as you like, who else are they going to get this product from?

In what way are you so certain that they're going to keep their word after fighting so hard to get rid of net neutrality? Why would they fight so hard for it to be gone, spend who knows how much money lobbying for it to be gone... To what? You think they just threw away money? Lobbying for the removal of net neutrality was an investment and they intend to have that investment pay off.

"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."

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Hyperbolt wrote:
Hyperbolt wrote:

Apparently after April the whole Net Neutrality stuff I've been hearing about recently is going to take effect. This sounds like bad news for things all over the Internet. I'm afraid that If it stays then the Internet will be too expensive to play City of Titans. Can anyone shed more light on the subject?

You might be surprised to learn that the effects of rule changes don't often show up immediately. In some cases, it can take a long time, say, years. There's an old saying that a President fights wars with the military the previous President worked to create. That's because it takes years to do anything major. Nuclear submarines, for example, don't hit the water until over a decade since the initial order, because you have to build the entire nuclear reactor first and then weld the hull around it.

The FCC abandoning its oversight role will be like this as well. Nothing happens immediately because nobody's really worked out what they want to do, and they're not sure how much they can get away with before people start demanding Something Must Be Done. Further, if enough of the Several States decide to implement their own rules, then it might be too much trouble for the ISPs and status quo will be maintained. At least until someone takes the case to SCOTUS and argues that state action is unconstitutional because of the Commerce Clause.

So the forecast is: "80% chance of lawyers, 99% chance we're not involved in that."

In this case, absence of evidence of shenanigans isn't evidence there will be no shenanigans. It isn't evidence of much anything, really. Will this affect us in the short term, say until the beta launches? Almost certainly not; we likely wouldn't be noticeable to the ISPs before then.

After that? Who knows? Maybe nothing will happen. Maybe some ISPs will start dropping our packets to and from customers on, say, tiers below 50 Mbps. It's all speculation until they contact us and give us the "option" of paying them to stop dropping our packets. Or maybe someone will axe us like AT&T unilaterally axed FaceTime. (Most folks still don't know that happened, and that it was one of the reasons the FCC imposed the rules in the first place.) We can't comment on what happens until something concrete drops in our laps. And maybe not even then; it could be covered by an NDA for all I know.

Some folks in this thread are certain nothing will happen, that the status quo is inviolable because of other mechanisms. They're not putting any skin in the game (i.e. what they owe everyone if they're wrong), so I'm personally not giving their opinions much weight. It's by definition wishful thinking, and you know, sometimes wishes come true!

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Cyclops wrote:
Cyclops wrote:

Capitalism sets prices that the market will bear.
The market will not bear a $90 extra fee to get the same internet service you now get for $20.

Like I said, nothing will happen. just wait and see.

So you are saying that because hyperbole amount of a price hike hasn't happened within a relatively short amount of time then a more financially practical one (for the ISP's) magically can't happen?

You are judging it on a way too short time frame. But just out of curiosity, if they say increase prices by 50% just like that during summer or fall would you then concede that our "paranoia" was justified?

Considering the amount of money they spend on minimizing competition, removing regulations and squeezing out of contractual obligations I just don't trust them to not use this enrich themselves while at the same time screwing over thier customers. I just don't see how you can believe that they will not take advantage of this opportunity.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Look at what MMOs are doing now. F2P! Except...NOT! :p

Free to P(L)AY

Can't you feel the FreeDUMB you're paying for?


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Maybe one possible benefit

Maybe one possible benefit would be preventing forum communities from repeating entire threads multiple times.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Maybe one possible benefit would be preventing forum communities from repeating entire threads multiple times.

I lawled.

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Maybe one possible benefit would be preventing forum communities from repeating entire threads multiple times.

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Cinnder wrote:
Cinnder wrote:

Maybe one possible benefit would be preventing forum communities from repeating entire threads multiple times.

If only. Once I know people's political bent on non-political sites, I tend to avoid such sites. I hope we won't hear much more of this. It is a huge turnoff and definitely affects my spending habits if it gets out of hand. I come here to get away from such carp.

Reward tactics as well as damage dealing.

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Honestly, on the BK campaign.

Honestly, on the BK campaign. I thought it was poorly done: just came off as trolling customers.


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