How many dev's are there on the MWM team? how many actually in UE4 building the game? Do we have any information on how many are full-time working on the game? I've only noticed like 4 or 5 devs that are active on the forums but that doesn't mean there aren't more that just don't get on the forums. It would just be interesting to know how many people are actually working on the game. I hope they do a decent in-game reveal of Titan City, not just the character creator, when the Second Chance funding comes around. Seems like in their recent twitches they are still using stock UE4 stuff instead of their own, home-built stuff, and that makes me think they really aren't as far along as everyone seems to hope.
Wed, 01/31/2018 - 14:16
#1
MWM Dev Team
None of the Devs are working on CoT full-time because they're all volunteers, they have day-jobs.
Be Well!
Fireheart
If I remember right, Dr Tyche said he quit his FT job to work on CoT. Regardless, I'm just curious how many 'team-members' there are working on the game. Other games, like Ship of Heroes, for example, has a page on their website that shows all their devs. I'm not asking for that...just some investor type information as I mentioned in the original post.
There are around 20 devs on the forum though not all actively post. If I remember correctly there are around 60 volunteers working on the game in various capacities. They are always looking for more. I think their big demand right now is 3D modelers with some experience. Part of the second chance funding campaign is to transition some of the volunteers to Full time paid devs and/or potentially hire in some developers to help push development forward.
Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments
48 active volunteers at this time. (just counted)
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Well That' s (4 times) more than i thought ^^
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[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]
At the time that Lin and I attended the Tabula Rasa War College (where we were invited in to the offices to meet the devs for the game) back in 2008, I think the complement of devs on the team was around 70 a good 6 months after game launch. I simply mention that as a point of reference for comparison purposes. The difference is, the Tabula Rasa team were full time employees of NC$oft. MWM has volunteers doing this in their (copious?) free time while working other jobs to stay afloat.
[center][img=44x100]https://i.imgur.com/sMUQ928.gif[/img]
[i]Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.[/i][/center]
A few points that I think would be interesting, though I'd expect the full picture to be very elusive:
How has the tech changed in the intervening years (UE4 & all, versus what the CoH and Tabula Rasa devs were using) to hopefully make each dev-hour more productive? This may include a lack of standardization forcing each game's devs to write much more custom code, texture libraries, markets of purchaseable plug-ins...
How does the scope of CoT compare to other MMOs - that is, how many "base dev hours" would CoT require versus Tabula Rasa's scope and other MMOs, if all were made with the same dev tools available today? This would be a function of the size of the game worlds being compared, the variety of enemy NPC behaviors and environments and mission designs, the detail of models, the care put into placing vegetation realistically, and so forth.
What schedule was Tabula Rasa (or CoH, or other MMO) attempting to follow versus CoT? Obviously, between two projects of equal scope and tech, one could require many more devs continuously and spikes of certain resources (modelers, QA) if working toward a particularly aggressive schedule. I think we've generally given MWM lots of credit for pushing the quality over deadlines approach, which seems like a seldom-followed development path. I wonder to what extent that "quality-first permission" from us, or from a publisher / upper management in the more general case, can affect the optimal number of devs for a given project. Fewer devs, but each dev is "hand-crafting" their work (and taking more time, doing more iteration & QA on their own work) versus many devs operating in a production line approach with the schedule as top priority, where more code errors slip past QA or shortcuts are justified by management that will hurt the game at launch?
I don't mean to discount the importance of other comparison points (full-time vs. part-time, all in one office vs. worldwide distribution of devs, etc), but the above points especially tweak my curiosity.
The standards demanded of new products today is far higher than when CoH and TR came out. It is painful for new players to join, so they don't.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
That's a very good thing to be aware of! Haha
Here, let's compare. Here's an MMO from 2001:
[img]http://gamingshogun.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/anarchyonline50.jpg[/img]
Then, let's look at CoH, from just three years later:
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/paragon/images/b/b2/Surviving_Eight.jpg[/img]
Now, Aion, just 4 years later:
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/c3/d2/ddc3d22f15f11aecf7d96789b1159466.jpg[/img]
Now TERA, just 3 years later:
[img]http://opiumpulses.com/uploads/product/999/extra/tera-1.jpg[/img]
And last year's Black Desert Online:
[img]https://gamingcentral.in/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/7597_4_black-desert-online-performance-analysis_full-1050x600.jpg[/img]
The reality is, the market demands ever better results. An MMO released today with Anarchy Online level graphics is dead in the water.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
And this is Ship of Heroes showing off their new zone, [i]with[/i] textures applied
[img]https://www.shipofheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TheWarehouseDistrict5.jpg[/img]
But not shader work. This is still very early stage development.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I understand there's a lot of room for improvement, but the update in which this came out made it sound like aside from distant textures not rendering, this was what they were going with.
Those pictures are a fine trip through memory lane...and very useful as a reminder of how expectations shift.
Adding to those graphical enhancements, players now ask that the mechanical systems also be much better in terms of responsiveness and realism - or at least consistency within the rules of the world.
For example, in BDO my avatars seldom get stuck on terrain, and can climb on buildings around each city with quite reasonable movements based on the building's structure - the physics consistency is such that I can usually judge in advance whether a particular climb or jump can be made without wondering "did the devs design this to allow this specific action I'm about to try?". I can sit on / relax against most surfaces pretty naturally. Gathering nodes are more realistic - far more features (such as trees) that appear to be gatherable are, versus what I'd come to expect in past MMOs.
Before this turns into a BDO commercial, it's necessary to note that once I experience these advancements, it highlights the problems that remain (and the difficulty of pleasing all of us as customers). For instance, it's unnaturally rare to properly time a jump over a fence in BDO, despite my avatars' impressive athleticism in other cases. The beautifully-modeled environment and graphics become less impressive when the "start" screen inexplicably causes my video card to crank like it's being asked to process 4K video instead of a still 1920x1080 photo. And of course the most common complaint - that fewer new games seem able to escape - some pointless price gouging at the cash shop.
It's pretty accurate to say that I'm prepared to heap praise (& money) on any volunteer project that can deliver something at or beyond CoH quality - in all aspects - and within a reasonable time after launch - while avoiding the cash shop macrotransactions trend as CoH did. That would be a remarkable technical achievement and show commitment to good design and planning.
That's it ! That's why i find this game "poor" :/
The ambiance given by the lights and the shadows are really important in fact
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[color=red]PR - Europe[/color]
? It's still in development...as City of Titans is...
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
DT since we have your attention, what is your most in-demand volunteer? Was I accurate in saying it was 3D modelers?
Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments
I sent in something months ago as I do graphic design, not sure how helpful that is at all but never heard back. I figured I wasn't good enough? LOl
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
Yes, we do need 3d modellers the most, always will. As for your application Wolfgang, Charles has been super busy with the other game he is the art lead for, so has not had time to process many applications. I'll poke him at the next meeting tomorrow and check for you.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
That's awesome thanks. And if I had a time machine I would go back and study 3d modeling so I could be more helpful. I have so much hope for this game!
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]
If you've got the time machine, I might suggest an alternate route. You know the course of events over the past few years. I suggest you invest in some winners, use that money to donate to MWM. Why spend 5 years learning a skill when you could make huge money and hire 3 or 4 people to work for MWM. While you're at this whole time machine business, there are some people I would like you to...ehem... "visit."
Second Chance: https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/CityOfTitans/SecondChance/
Dev Tracker: http://cityoftitans.com/forum/fixing-dev-digest
Dev Comments: https://cityoftitans.com/forum/dev-comments
Yes to that, but I have an art degree and working as a concept artist or 3d modeler for a COH successor would be my dream come true. I just have the wrong type of degree and experience. :P but uhhh...yeah...send me the list :)
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[color=#FF0000]Graphic Designer[/color]