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more meaningful badge unlocks

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Radiac
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more meaningful badge unlocks

In CoX, the vast majority of the badges you could get did nothing for you except look nice. They ALL gave you a subtitle like "Isolator" or "Rocket Man" but apart from that, only certain specific ones led to Accolade unlocks, which generally gave you either a long-recharge prestige power, like the Crey CBX-9, or some kind of passive thing, like 5% more hit points, etc.

I generally only cared about the accolades, for the most part, and even then mostly the "passive stat buff" ones. I eventually got around to defeating enough Carnie illusions to get the Archmage accolade, but it was low priority due to being a kind of "meh" prestige power (in my mind, especially as compared to having 5% more total endo).

That said, every little bit helps.

In GW2 a lot of the achievements you can get don't actually give you a publicly wearable "title" like the badges in CoX did. I'm not sure if we want to go that route, but if we did, I would suggest that maybe having a special badge title for every different level of "defeated 100 Crey" or "took 10,000 damage" doesn't need to grant its own unique, publicly displayable character title. Maybe you just track those badges you've unlocked in your own badge window, but don't give them the title perk. Then the "defeated 100 Tsoo Sorcerors" badge is just that, and doesn't need a cool name for when you choose to "wear" it, because it wouldn't be a "wearable" badge.

Okay, that was all preliminary to what my main point here, specifically more actually useful powers/bonuses unlocked from getting badges.

What if completing all of the "Aether Pirate related" defeat badges, i.e. getting the badge for 100, then 500, then 1000 generic AP defeats, plus the one for defeating X bosses, etc (all of which would be non-title-bearing in my mind) resulted in a special (title-bearing) accolade-like badge which not only has a title associated with it (like "Aether Cop" or something) but also granted an accolade-like prestige power? And for the power, I'm thinking something faction-specific and very minor. Like a super-long recharge, AP-themed temp power, or a passive power called "Aether Pirate Expert" that grants maybe +1% damage or +1% defense versus the faction in question etc.

That way, people like me, who only ever cared about the badges that gave you some tangible benefit, or MAYBE occasionally would do a badge to get the cool title, would have more badges to want to get.

Just an idea. I mean, it's basically what CoX had, but like MORE of that, maybe to the point where every "non-title bearing" badge you could get might eventually be part of a larger group which would unlock something tangible later. Some of the "low level" badges (i.e. the ones that don't grant titles of their own) could be included in multiple different "greater badge"unlocks (i.e. with title and prestige power). So like if you defeat 1000 Trolls you might get credit toward the eventual Troll accolade, but you might also need that badge for the "Gang Buster" accolade, which requires different badges from defeating different "street gang" type villains.

Oh, and all such granted powers would be, like the Crey CBX-9, non-augmentable.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I'd prefer badges not grant

I'd prefer badges not grant anything but a title. it stops it from ending up being like "only people with x badges can be on this team cause we want these bonuses."

I'd rather them have zero gameplay impact.

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I never, in all my PuG did I

I never, in all my PuG did I see anyone say "Must have this badge!" Unless it was just a matter of needing such and such badge to know they unlocked access to something.

The bonuses the accolades gave were just to minor. :p Yes, it becomes a bit of "Every little bit helps" but only to those who were really trying to min/max their characters. Plenty of people thought the chasing of the accolades just wasn't worth the effort to do on purpose. :p

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If -all- the badges conveyed

If -all- the badges conveyed bonuses then it would start to become that. Like how in WoW you need to have a certain item level for things. Badges would just become a supplement for equipment.

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I respectfully have to

I respectfully have to disagree Project Hero. The tangible benefits would not make or break any team for any kind of mission or task force. It didnt in Cox and wouldn't here. The people who will play this game will for the most part be a totally different crowd then those who play WOW. I never remember being kicked from a team because I didnt have an Accolade power.

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Your idea about granting a

Your idea about granting a bonus against the faction has merit. This shows character development, not just player accomplishment.

It would be explained by your character gaining experience against that opponent. But rather than being a straight-up damage or defense increase, you might want to make it an increased chance for critical hits while fighting them, and lower chance of critical hits upon you. Thus showing your character's inceased knowledge of the opponent's strengths and weaknesses. And by making it faction-dependent you could make it faction-related as well. So if there was a faction that has a lot of stealthy opponents, then maybe you get a bonus to detect them. Or if you have an opponent faction that does a lot of knockabouts and stuns, maybe you start building a resistance to these CC effects.

I would make sure that whatever bonuses you got from these faction-specific accolades would not be applicable to other factions. That's what regular in-game power progression is meant to protray.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If -all- the badges conveyed bonuses then it would start to become that. Like how in WoW you need to have a certain item level for things. Badges would just become a supplement for equipment.

True. It would have to be implemented smartly.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

If -all- the badges conveyed bonuses then it would start to become that. Like how in WoW you need to have a certain item level for things. Badges would just become a supplement for equipment.

I don't actually care if a badge conveys a bonus or not. I did think it was a nice little thing to help add to characters.

Was also a little incentive for players to run the basic taskforces, which were never really that hard. Some where just time consuming.

Taskforces were nothing like a raid would be, so giving an incentive to people to run taskforces was nice, because for some reason, even though people could run in PuG missions for 5 hours, the idea of running one storyline set of missions always seemed to bug them :p Made no sense to me.

However, if they were gone from CoT (the bonuses) I wouldn't bat an eye. I didn't think it hurt a player to not have them though and gave an incentive to run such things.

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So as I was reading Radiac's

So as I was reading Radiac's post, it struck me that I didn't love the badge title suggestions. So what if we get a CHOICE of titles for the same badge? Something like Aether Cop or Yarr Harr Fiddle Dee Dee? The downside being more work for the Devs for little to negligible benefit. Thoughts?

(What can I say? I like pirates!)

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I just think it adds some

I just think it adds some appeal to the badges for players like me who are power hungry and want every little 0.1% stat buff we can get. Assuming you make give passive it buffs to defense, resistance, crit chance for, crit chance against, etc I doubt it would add too much to the toon's powerfulness solo or on a small team. In a raid-sized group, you might see leaders trying to organize "Master of ___" runs for harder badges saying stuff like "must have the stat buff accolade, we're trying for the Hard Way badge this time...", but I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se, as long as it's not a constant thing like in WoW, and I think the ability to adjust difficulty in CoT (like CoX had) will take the edge off that (like it did in CoX).

Also I think giving every little badge it's own character title is overkill and cheapens the titles themselves, also it's hard to come up with good names for all of them at that point.

Edit: and it's not like this is a paper and pencil RPG where you'd have to apply those stat buff yourself every time you roll a die. Here the game should be able to do it for you, though that might lead to longer computation times for pseudorandom "rolls" to hit there too. Maybe better to do buffs that don't affect odds but only affect amounts of damage, etc? I don't know.

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Holy crap... Radiarc has a

Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...

It's been a long ~4 years since the Kickstarter. It was bound to happen eventually. :)

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Impulse King wrote:
Impulse King wrote:

So as I was reading Radiac's post, it struck me that I didn't love the badge title suggestions. So what if we get a CHOICE of titles for the same badge? Something like Aether Cop or Yarr Harr Fiddle Dee Dee? The downside being more work for the Devs for little to negligible benefit. Thoughts?
(What can I say? I like pirates!)

I think one of the main draws for a bigger badge is what the title you get is. I got up early in the morning for several Saturdays in order to get the Rocket Man badge when Warburg was mostly empty, for example, just because I wanted my "space gyuy" character to be able to have that title. As such I think "choice of title" seems wrong, to me as a badge perk. I personally would wire it up such that every badge gave you either no title at all (which would be the majority of them) or a single appropriate title, with no choice involved in that regard. Maybe that's just me.

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Exploration badges could be

Exploration badges could be awarded on the basis of 'Neighborhood' completion. So you don't get a badge for every little point of some interest, but visit all the places and look around a bit, and you could unlock 'Known/Notorious in Clarkstown', or some such. Spread out the badge progression and make it so one has to do a little digging to collect them all. Maybe actually collect some Lore, to get the reward, and not just run down a particular alley or across a rooftop.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Impulse King wrote:
Impulse King wrote:

So as I was reading Radiac's post, it struck me that I didn't love the badge title suggestions. So what if we get a CHOICE of titles for the same badge? Something like Aether Cop or Yarr Harr Fiddle Dee Dee? The downside being more work for the Devs for little to negligible benefit. Thoughts?

Radiac wrote:

Also I think giving every little badge it's own character title is overkill and cheapens the titles themselves, also it's hard to come up with good names for all of them at that point.

I wasn't a fan of 99% of the titles either. But every once in a while I came across an obscure one that was perfect for one of my characters. And that's what I think they are intended to be. Kind of like costume options for your name. The vast majority of them were not for your character, but the devs will never know which ones are. And so, I say give us all sorts of random titles. You never know when one might rhyme with, alliterate with or otherwise strike the perfect tone with someone's character idea. With thousands and thousands of characters running around, I think it only makes sense that there should be a glut of titles available.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Maybe we could have things

Maybe we could have things like a small boost to experience and ing for these badges

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XP boosting only really helps

XP boosting only really helps the low levels, unless this is some sort of account wide unlock that works for alts.

Some things that are a little less player effecting could be "This set of badges will allow you to craft a little faster!"

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I'm not against XP bonuses

I'm not against XP bonuses and loot drops for getting a badge.

Another thing to consider about "choice of title when you get a badge" is that people will automatically want BOTH titles.

From the standpoint of the game dev, giving people a choice of "this" or "that" when you do something sounds like it adds more options and is a good thing. From the standpoint of the players getting those options, the fact that those two things are now mutually exclusive (i.e. you either picked This or That and can't have both) means that you've taken something AWAY that they feel like they ought to be able to have.

As such it would be better to have two separate badges that give those titles separately than to have one badge the offers a one-time choice that can't be changed.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Look a little closer at what

Look a little closer at what is being asked here.

Some want badge titles. Some want a meager boost to output.

For those that want a title, the background lore behind the badge title is meaningless. The important part is having the string of text next to their name. The badge and how it was earned is meaningless (i.e. a one-off action that is begrudgingly taken to gain something). You aren't weaving your story into the wider story of the zone/event/whatever, you just want the string next to your name. Why not just ask for the capability to just give yourself a title? That way it will fit into your own character's narrative.

As for the boost to effectiveness, why not just make power slotting a more transparent (and hopefully better understood) process? Notoriety for street sweeping against a certain gang would probably garner attention from said gang (or maybe they recoil into the darkness). But what it might also do is gain the attention of contacts that need help from a super that has experience dealing with this scum, allowing you to go deeper down the rabbit hole. Then that could lead to rewards that help your effectiveness or whatever. The situation where all you have to do is kill X mobs to get +1% seems like a flat & uninteresting throw away experience. Another task to ignore or endure before you do something else that is "important".

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Costume unlocks linked to

Costume unlocks linked to badges would be pretty ok. I think Champions has a system similar. But I wouldn't put any statistical bonuses on them.

XP boosts that turn into IGC boosts at max level? Maybe getting a badge could fill your HP, Energy, and momentum? But then I guess you'd have people making it so they're to almost attained badges for tough stuff... But that'd be hard to engineer to maximum benefit.

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Getting the badge for the Red

Getting the badge for the Red Cap Daggers (believe it was defeat so many little annoying gnomes) was never an issue with me and I did it for every dual blader I made, and I made many :p

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Maybe for gang related badges

Maybe for gang related badges it'd increase the chance for leads involving them to drop?

"I've been watching these creeps for months I know when they're planning something.'

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Another thing to consider about "choice of title when you get a badge" is that people will automatically want BOTH titles.
From the standpoint of the game dev, giving people a choice of "this" or "that" when you do something sounds like it adds more options and is a good thing. From the standpoint of the players getting those options, the fact that those two things are now mutually exclusive (i.e. you either picked This or That and can't have both) means that you've taken something AWAY that they feel like they ought to be able to have.
As such it would be better to have two separate badges that give those titles separately than to have one badge the offers a one-time choice that can't be changed.

Wow Radiac, you are on fire today. Did you take your wisdom wheaties this morning or something? This is another great exposition on human behavior.

People can be happy with what they have, until they see what could have been. Then all of a sudden what they have is not good any more. Why is that?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Grass is always greener on

Grass is always greener on the other side.

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Generically speaking, it's a

Generically speaking, it's a bad idea to "gate" certain advantages behind Badge Collecting, since it amounts to a "jump through these hoops to get this benefit" kind of deal.

On balance, I'd honestly prefer that Badges (and the collection thereof) did NOT grant combat relevant buffs/debuffs/modifiers of performance ... either individually or in aggregate (the Accolades of City of Heroes). Reason being that doing that turns into a HAVES versus HAVE NOTS exercise, and depending on the longevity of the game (and, let's be honest, we want City of Titans to have LONG run, don't we?) eventually "having" those buffs becomes the norm/standard of performance expectations (where if you don't have them, you're just gimping yourself).

That said ... I do think it would be interesting to allow Badges (and the collection thereof) to have NON-combat relevance that can modify interactions with NPCs.

Let's say there's a Defeated X of Faction Y since last defeated by Faction Y Badge that gets reset to zero if any member of that faction delivers the killing blow to your PC. So the number climbs up if you defeat them but they can't (or don't) defeat you. How would you use that in game?

Well ... in combination with other factors (Law, Honor, Violence alignment axes) that could mean that members of Faction Y could be more or less likely to attack your PC ... so modify the aggro radius (+ or -) of the members of that Faction relative to your PC, depending on whether that Faction is intimidated by your reputation, or enraged by your reputation ("That's Lord Yupa! Kill him and you'll be FAMOUS!!!"). Think of it as being like how street crooks know better than to mess with Batman, even though they still try sometimes. Point being, the higher the X count goes, the greater the social pressure placed on the members of that Faction by your PC's presence. Conversely, if an Ambush is called for in the content you're playing, if your X count against Faction Y is high, then at certain breakpoints the Ambush will include additional members (you're such a threat to the Faction that they automatically send more troops to try and defeat you in an Ambush). That sort of thing. And because the "value" of the count varies (and can be reset to zero) the point is that the "fear" or "presence" that the Badge gives your PC with respect to Faction Y is also something that can grow and recede over time, so it isn't just a matter of being something that gets "finished" (per se) at any point, so it's more of an Ironman Challenge kind of thing recording how lopsided your victories are against Faction Y.

Alternatively, I can envision the gating of some game content behind Exploration Badges ... things like "collect all these Badges to unlock this Contact" as a way to demonstrate (game mechanically) that you "know the neighborhood" well enough for the local Contact(s) to trust your PC enough to give you Missions.

Additionally, Defeat Badges (the regular variety that don't reset) could be used as a sort of "you must have taken out this many of our enemies before our Boss will even speak with you" kind of deal. The Family and the Tsoo are enemy Factions. Get a Badge for Defeating 100 Tsoo before the godfather of The Family will see you to discuss "a business proposition" that you might be interested in. Note that in this case, I'm talking about setting things up such that the Badges you've collected might give you an "IN" with various NPC Factions that those Badges relate to.

Note that in all cases I'm describing here, the "benefit" of collecting these Badges has nothing to do with DIRECT Combat performance (do more damage, cost less endurance, gain more regeneration, faster recharge times, etc.) that are relevant when you're fighting and are instead about modifying the OPPORTUNITIES to "do things" in the game in a way that is oriented more socially than just straight up belligerence buffing. That way, the effects of the Badges (if any) is more SOCIAL (and reputational) than combat stats modifying, because they're more about who YOU know ... and who KNOWS you.


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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Maybe for gang related badges it'd increase the chance for leads involving them to drop?
"I've been watching these creeps for months I know when they're planning something.'

That is a great idea. I had completely forgotten about leads and clues.

One thing we haven't acknowledged is whether the benefits are only applicable while using the title or if the benefit is just unlocked once you get the title. I am nt sure where I stand on that yet and I'd like to hear what someone else has to say about it.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:
notears wrote:
Radiac wrote:

That way, people like me, who only ever cared about the badges that gave you some tangible benefit, or MAYBE occasionally would do a badge to get the cool title, would have more badges to want to get.

Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...

It's been a long ~4 years since the Kickstarter. It was bound to happen eventually. :)

Holy Double-Crap! I had two characters in CoH that had over 1392 badges each. Assuming a system where a large percentage of those badges provided some kind of in-game power bonus (instead of the handful of Accolades that actually did that in CoH) those two characters would have likely become so powerful they probably could've annihilated every MOB in the game simultaneously just by thinking about it.

I'm not necessarily against Radiac's original idea here but unless something like this is balanced properly you're going to have EVERYONE trying to earn every badge in the game... not just a handful of loons like me. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Holy Double-Crap! I had two characters in CoH that had over 1392 badges each.

Clearly, there were too many Badges, then. Perhaps we should reduce that to, like, six?

Be Well!
Fireheart

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To respond to @Planet10:

To respond to @Planet10:

1. Half the fun of badge titles is earning them. If you let people just pick one without having to do anything to unlock it, you're not adding any incentive to play the game at all, you're just handing people something they want because they want it. The point of a game is that you have to play it to get the stuff, not just have it given to you for free. Also you CANNOT let people write their own titles. you have to let the devs write them and the players unlock them. Too many dirty jokes....

2. Are you saying that any kind of passive stat buff type power or long recharge prestige power is bad? Because I would want that stuff, were it in the game, but what you're talking about doesn't sound like it would interest me enough to do content for it. Like, if I'm getting all the badges for defeating Freaks, I'm probably already in contact with like ALL of the Freak contacts already anyway. If you're implying we should make a special Freak contact that you can only unlock by getting the full set of Freak badges, then why do I want to do that contact's missions now, if i'm already "done" with the badges for that faction?

Now, if they drop different loot when I do their missions, or give out rechargable temp powers or something, that's a different story. but that's also a power-up on the level of the jellomen from CoX, which is not something they they around a lot of all over the place. If the deal is "get all the Freakshow badges so you can unlock a special contact who gives you repeatable daily missions and/or some way to earn cool Freakshow-themed temp powers or something" then I think everyone would want to do every one of those badges now. I know I would. That's also just adding in one more layer of content to have to do before you get the desired reward stuff, whatever it is. I'm okay with that. More game to do for rewards means more fun to be had by me when I do it. Just don't make it too grindy.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Holy Double-Crap! I had two characters in CoH that had over 1392 badges each.

Clearly, there were too many Badges, then. Perhaps we should reduce that to, like, six?

Well if those 6 CoT badges are collectively going to take as long and be as hard to get as CoH's 1392 then I'd be up for that. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

I'm not against XP bonuses and loot drops for getting a badge.
Another thing to consider about "choice of title when you get a badge" is that people will automatically want BOTH titles.
From the standpoint of the game dev, giving people a choice of "this" or "that" when you do something sounds like it adds more options and is a good thing. From the standpoint of the players getting those options, the fact that those two things are now mutually exclusive (i.e. you either picked This or That and can't have both) means that you've taken something AWAY that they feel like they ought to be able to have.
As such it would be better to have two separate badges that give those titles separately than to have one badge the offers a one-time choice that can't be changed.

I forgot to mention that for the sake of those that want it all, my thought was just complete the qualification again. To be fair there are badges where this is unreasonable. Most exploration badges are specific for a reason, the higher tiers of healing or damage taken etc, should not be re-grinded for. "Master of..." should also be untouched.

Essentially I meant, and did not explain, that "Kill X of Y" were what I was going for with this thought. (Although with the Aether Pirates I fleetingly thought that where you fall on the lawful axis could have an affect. Then discarded the notion for causing more harm than good.)

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Defeat so many of Enemy X and

Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.

Which just may be the most important badges! How many times in CoH did people wish they could have an enemy fraction costume piece? Here's a way to give them to the players game play wise.

The could also sell them for right away sale on the market.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.
Which just may be the most important badges! How many times in CoH did people wish they could have an enemy fraction costume piece? Here's a way to give them to the players game play wise.
The could also sell them for right away sale on the market.

Unlike some of your badge ideas I actually like this one myself. ;)

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.
Which just may be the most important badges! How many times in CoH did people wish they could have an enemy fraction costume piece? Here's a way to give them to the players game play wise.
The could also sell them for right away sale on the market.

"I beat up 1000 Rooks and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."

Would be nice if getting all the unlocks for a enemy faction on one character gave a little discount to pay for an account wide unlock.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.

Please no ... not that scaling. Defeating 10,000 Rikti Monkeys was a bad idea then and it's still a bad idea now.

Now, setting things up such that Defeating 100 members of a Faction lets you PICK one component of that Faction's costume parts to become available to your character ... with multiple parts (so keep Defeating them to get all the parts) ... sounds like it has merit. That way, you don't get the pieces in a specific order, but instead can a la carte get the stuff you want "first" and then keep going to "complete the set" in whatever order you want.


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.
Please no ... not that scaling. Defeating 10,000 Rikti Monkeys was a bad idea then and it's still a bad idea now.
Now, setting things up such that Defeating 100 members of a Faction lets you PICK one component of that Faction's costume parts to become available to your character ... with multiple parts (so keep Defeating them to get all the parts) ... sounds like it has merit. That way, you don't get the pieces in a specific order, but instead can a la carte get the stuff you want "first" and then keep going to "complete the set" in whatever order you want.

I just threw out numbers :p

Also, not against the choose the item you want, way of doing it as you go. I just thought it best to go with the idea that you only get one item at a time then need to defeat more to get the next item.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Radiac wrote:
notears wrote:
Radiac wrote:
That way, people like me, who only ever cared about the badges that gave you some tangible benefit, or MAYBE occasionally would do a badge to get the cool title, would have more badges to want to get.
Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...
It's been a long ~4 years since the Kickstarter. It was bound to happen eventually. :)
Holy Double-Crap! I had two characters in CoH that had over 1392 badges each. Assuming a system where a large percentage of those badges provided some kind of in-game power bonus (instead of the handful of Accolades that actually did that in CoH) those two characters would have likely become so powerful they probably could've annihilated every MOB in the game simultaneously just by thinking about it.
I'm not necessarily against Radiac's original idea here but unless something like this is balanced properly you're going to have EVERYONE trying to earn every badge in the game... not just a handful of loons like me. ;)

The proliferation of power creep had entered my mind when I wrote the OP. You'll notice I'm suggesting faction-specific buffs, like "+1% versus Aether Pirates" not "+1% overall" and/or very long recharge trinkets that might come in handy but are severely limited in how often you can use them (I wouldn't be against a 12 hour cooldown, if that's what it takes).

And it wouldn't be every badge, it would just be, like, MORE accolades for collecting thematic sets of badges, such that virtually every badge might be needed for at least one if not more such "major badges" which would be the ones that give titles and powers and stuff.

Maybe getting all the exploration badges and reading all the plaques in the outside world (or whatever part of it exists at time of game roll-out) get's you a long range teleport that you can only use once per 24 hours of real time, or once every 12 hours of in-game play time.

Maybe getting all the Aether Pirate badges unlocks a special steampunk themes pistol that you can only shoot once per day, or maybe it gives a prestige power that gives you a passive 1% defense versus Aether Pirates.

Maybe completing all the Task Force badges get's you an accolade that gives you a once per day team TP that recalls all your teammates to your location.

That kind of stuff

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.
Which just may be the most important badges! How many times in CoH did people wish they could have an enemy fraction costume piece? Here's a way to give them to the players game play wise.
The could also sell them for right away sale on the market.
Unlike some of your badge ideas I actually like this one myself. ;)

Hey now. I never really had a badge idea :p I was never for exclusive badges. I was just against not having them just because someone might cry for not being able to get them.

Total difference :p

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Radiac wrote:
notears wrote:
Radiac wrote:
That way, people like me, who only ever cared about the badges that gave you some tangible benefit, or MAYBE occasionally would do a badge to get the cool title, would have more badges to want to get.
Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...
It's been a long ~4 years since the Kickstarter. It was bound to happen eventually. :)
Holy Double-Crap! I had two characters in CoH that had over 1392 badges each. Assuming a system where a large percentage of those badges provided some kind of in-game power bonus (instead of the handful of Accolades that actually did that in CoH) those two characters would have likely become so powerful they probably could've annihilated every MOB in the game simultaneously just by thinking about it.
I'm not necessarily against Radiac's original idea here but unless something like this is balanced properly you're going to have EVERYONE trying to earn every badge in the game... not just a handful of loons like me. ;)
The proliferation of power creep had entered my mind when I wrote the OP. You'll notice I'm suggesting faction-specific buffs, like "+1% versus Aether Pirates" not "+1% overall" and/or very long recharge trinkets that might come in handy but are severely limited in how often you can use them (I wouldn't be against a 12 hour cooldown, if that's what it takes).
And it wouldn't be every badge, it would just be, like, MORE accolades for collecting thematic sets of badges, such that virtually every badge might be needed for at least one if not more such "major badges" which would be the ones that give titles and powers and stuff.
Maybe getting all the exploration badges and reading all the plaques in the outside world (or whatever part of it exists at time of game roll-out) get's you a long range teleport that you can only use once per 24 hours of real time, or once every 12 hours of in-game play time.
Maybe getting all the Aether Pirate badges unlocks a special steampunk themes pistol that you can only shoot once per day, or maybe it gives a prestige power that gives you a passive 1% defense versus Aether Pirates.
Maybe completing all the Task Force badges get's you an accolade that gives you a once per day team TP that recalls all your teammates to your location.
That kind of stuff

Right, I even said "if more badges worked like CoH accolades" not "if ALL badges gave you benefits". Still if CoT manages to offer us roughly the same number of badges that CoH did it still might get pretty messy to handle all the various buffs.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Defeat so many of Enemy X and you unlock their costume! Could even be done in tiers 100 Enemies for the hat, 1000 for the leggings, 10000 for the gloves, etc etc.
Which just may be the most important badges! How many times in CoH did people wish they could have an enemy fraction costume piece? Here's a way to give them to the players game play wise.
The could also sell them for right away sale on the market.
Unlike some of your badge ideas I actually like this one myself. ;)
Hey now. I never really had a badge idea :p I was never for exclusive badges. I was just against not having them just because someone might cry for not being able to get them.
Total difference :p

So you're saying you're not for them but just against -reason- for not having them... lol ;)

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Radiac wrote:
notears wrote:
Radiac wrote:
That way, people like me, who only ever cared about the badges that gave you some tangible benefit, or MAYBE occasionally would do a badge to get the cool title, would have more badges to want to get.
Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...
It's been a long ~4 years since the Kickstarter. It was bound to happen eventually. :)
Holy Double-Crap! I had two characters in CoH that had over 1392 badges each. Assuming a system where a large percentage of those badges provided some kind of in-game power bonus (instead of the handful of Accolades that actually did that in CoH) those two characters would have likely become so powerful they probably could've annihilated every MOB in the game simultaneously just by thinking about it.
I'm not necessarily against Radiac's original idea here but unless something like this is balanced properly you're going to have EVERYONE trying to earn every badge in the game... not just a handful of loons like me. ;)
The proliferation of power creep had entered my mind when I wrote the OP. You'll notice I'm suggesting faction-specific buffs, like "+1% versus Aether Pirates" not "+1% overall" and/or very long recharge trinkets that might come in handy but are severely limited in how often you can use them (I wouldn't be against a 12 hour cooldown, if that's what it takes).
And it wouldn't be every badge, it would just be, like, MORE accolades for collecting thematic sets of badges, such that virtually every badge might be needed for at least one if not more such "major badges" which would be the ones that give titles and powers and stuff.
Maybe getting all the exploration badges and reading all the plaques in the outside world (or whatever part of it exists at time of game roll-out) get's you a long range teleport that you can only use once per 24 hours of real time, or once every 12 hours of in-game play time.
Maybe getting all the Aether Pirate badges unlocks a special steampunk themes pistol that you can only shoot once per day, or maybe it gives a prestige power that gives you a passive 1% defense versus Aether Pirates.
Maybe completing all the Task Force badges get's you an accolade that gives you a once per day team TP that recalls all your teammates to your location.
That kind of stuff

I don't recall any power being tied to a collection of badges, having a short timer, to make them game breaking.

In terms of permanent clickable powers from badges at any rate.

The passive power ones were generally weak, but much like any MMO, if something can give you a 1% more of something, it may be that stupid game changer for a player. "Does the 1% actually help?" "No. But you'll always know in the back of your head, you could've had that 1% more over your concept choice!" :p

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"I'm not for exclusive badges

"I'm not for exclusive badges but I'll fight to the death to keep them being a thing because I'm ok with people feeling left out or completionists not being able to get 100% for no real reason!"

Like, if you don't care one way or the other share no sympathies with either side why even bother with the debate of it?

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

"I'm not for exclusive badges but I'll fight to the death to keep them being a thing because I'm ok with people feeling left out or completionists not being able to get 100% for no real reason!"
Like, if you don't care one way or the other share no sympathies with either side why even bother with the debate of it?

I do care. I care about the idea of not having them, just because people may whine about missing out on them.

What I don't care about either way, is if they're actually in or not. If they're not in because "Hey, it just seems like a waste of man power to put in." I'm totally for. If they're not in because "Someone can't handle not obtaining all the badges because they were late to the party." I say quit catering to the whiners.

Also, it's a forum. Why not debate about it? Seriously, it's not like I can play the game instead right now :p

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

"I'm not for exclusive badges but I'll fight to the death to keep them being a thing because I'm ok with people feeling left out or completionists not being able to get 100% for no real reason!"
Like, if you don't care one way or the other share no sympathies with either side why even bother with the debate of it?

Brand X wrote:

Also, it's a forum. Why not debate about it? Seriously, it's not like I can play the game instead right now :p

Sometimes, like me, I think Brand X just likes to play Devil's Advocate just for the sake of playing it. ;)

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Which means your fine with

Which means your fine with the people who whine for the right to have them? So whining for not being able to get them bad... Whining for being able to have them good. Gotcha.

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

What I don't care about either way, is if they're actually in or not. If they're not in because "Hey, it just seems like a waste of man power to put in." I'm totally for. If they're not in because "Someone can't handle not obtaining all the badges because they were late to the party." I say quit catering to the whiners.

Well...
If they aren't in CoT let's hope the Devs never tell us why. ;)
If they are in CoT then we'll know these Devs don't really care about stemming the tide of entitled elitism.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Which means your fine with the people who whine for the right to have them? So whining for not being able to get them bad... Whining for being able to have them good. Gotcha.

I haven't seen whining for them. Only whining against them.

I would love to see someone whine for them to be in game though! Did you want to be that player? :)

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Brand X wrote:
What I don't care about either way, is if they're actually in or not. If they're not in because "Hey, it just seems like a waste of man power to put in." I'm totally for. If they're not in because "Someone can't handle not obtaining all the badges because they were late to the party." I say quit catering to the whiners.
Well...
If they aren't in CoT let's hope the Devs never tell us why. ;)
If they are in CoT then we'll know these Devs don't really care about stemming the tide of entitled elitism.

Now see, that would be a smart Dev thing to do! Except, if a costume unlock requires me to kill so many enemies, then I might just consider that a form of entitled elitism, as other may have gotten a costume piece before me and now feel they're lording it above me! :p

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

"I'm not for exclusive badges but I'll fight to the death to keep them being a thing because I'm ok with people feeling left out or completionists not being able to get 100% for no real reason!"
Like, if you don't care one way or the other share no sympathies with either side why even bother with the debate of it?

I do care. I care about the idea of not having them, just because people may whine about missing out on them.
What I don't care about either way, is if they're actually in or not. If they're not in because "Hey, it just seems like a waste of man power to put in." I'm totally for. If they're not in because "Someone can't handle not obtaining all the badges because they were late to the party." I say quit catering to the whiners.

I haven't agreed with a lot of your arguments in this debate, Brand X, but I am definitely of the same opinion on this issue.

And Project_Hero completely miscategorized you and others who share the same opinion. I don't think anyone who supports one-time rewards does so for the sake of keeping a boot on the unclean masses who don't get them. And I doubt the producers who awarded the one-time rewards did so with the intention of making other players dismayed. No. The idea of one-time reward is in the very name itself. It is a reward given to people who met the criteria for it. It is something the producers thought worthy of sharing. The players who get these rewards should feel good about getting them. That's the entire purpose of getting them. Anyone who begrudges them for feeling this joy should really go take a long look at themselves through their mother's eyes. But this thread has devolved. I don't see anyone attempting to understand anyone, I only see people telling each other they are wrong, casting aspersions, or trying to force feed their own opinions.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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So. People are vocal about

So. People are vocal about not wanting one-time rewards or exclusives. No one is vocal about wanting them... So we should have them just to spite those who are speaking up about not wanting them... Do I have this clear?

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

So. People are vocal about not wanting one-time rewards or exclusives. No one is vocal about wanting them... So we should have them just to spite those who are speaking up about not wanting them... Do I have this clear?

Nope.

People are whining about not wanting exclusives, because they're afraid they'll miss out.

No one is vocal about wanting them, because they will be labeled elitist jerks.

However, there are those who are more than willing to say, "Don't give into the whining!"

;)

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

So. People are vocal about not wanting one-time rewards or exclusives. No one is vocal about wanting them... So we should have them just to spite those who are speaking up about not wanting them... Do I have this clear?

That seems to sum it up nicely. This is how the vocal minority always drives policy.

But you do realize that the 1% of future CoT players who actually contribute to this forum are VASTLY skewed to be within the obssessive demographic that includes that same vocal minority, right?


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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So. Having the thing is bad.

So. Having the thing is bad. Not having it is good. But we shouldn't not have it because people asked for it... Do you see why this is dumb?

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Okay. I now ask for

Okay. I now ask for Anniversary badges. They're enjoyable and something to look forward to each year!

Every year, on the anniversary of the game, I will know, there's one new badge I can get, to join my collection of badges. It's not about exclusive items! No. No. It's just about having more! Seeing my total badge number grow, because yes, size matters!

Does that make you feel better Project? :)

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I don't really have any

I don't really have any feelings on the matter beyond maybe mild annoyance and/or slight confusion. "I care not for exclusives or not but I'll fight to the death people's right to be included."

How would said anniversary badge work? Log in? Quest? Have an account? Have a subscription?
Cause if it's a quest it could be available at all times after it drops. I mean it's not about an exclusive badge, right? So this fulfills your wish and the wish of inclusion.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I don't really have any feelings on the matter beyond maybe mild annoyance and/or slight confusion. "I care not for exclusives or not but I'll fight to the death people's right to be included."
How would said anniversary badge work? Log in? Quest? Have an account? Have a subscription?
Cause if it's a quest it could be available at all times after it drops. I mean it's not about an exclusive badge, right? So this fulfills your wish and the wish of inclusion.

I actually made no wish for inclusion, others did.

I had no problem with a badge that said, show up at this time and get such badge. In the case of the anniversary badge.

I had no problem with a badge that may be tied to a one time event either. "The world of CoT is going to change! To mark this occasion of change, an event will be held all week/month to take out the old and bring in the new! Miss the event and you will miss out on an exclusive badge forever!" either.

Now, I can't say I'm for one time events, only because it seems like it's a waste of resources when the company is small and the user base may not be the biggest to make it worth while.

Blizzard doing it in WoW is totally different than a much smaller MMO with a smaller staff and smaller player base (so less money incoming) doing it.

As for the anniversary badge and how it would work, if it was me, I'd tie it to logging in and taking a character up to one of the high profile NPCs (just one or maybe multiple choices, depending on the game) with a selectable question of "How's the city doing?" being the trigger to getting the new anniversary badge. :p

NPC: It's been a long /#/ of years, but we've made it and we'll continue to go on protecting the city from the villains that are to much for police to handle!

Something along those lines (and yes, I hope they don't do the CoH line of "All the cops in Paragon City are the bravest most honest souls! They're just outgunned! Until later, when we update them, but for some reason they still suck!" :p)

Now, whether one has to do it with all characters or just one is a different matter.

However, this would make it so one doesn't have to be subbed or not to log in, since CoT will be F2P.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I don't really have any feelings on the matter beyond maybe mild annoyance and/or slight confusion. "I care not for exclusives or not but I'll fight to the death people's right to be included."
How would said anniversary badge work? Log in? Quest? Have an account? Have a subscription?
Cause if it's a quest it could be available at all times after it drops. I mean it's not about an exclusive badge, right? So this fulfills your wish and the wish of inclusion.

This is a very good question. Even attempting to answer it makes me want to not have anniversary badges.

However, in that same vein, I would definitely support "Year One" rewards. So as long as you logged in and played the game before the first anniversary you are eligible for the Year One reward. Then every year after that, there is a new reward for that year. Personally, rather than being badges that show up on your character profile or something, I would prefer the reward to be a trophy or plaque you can put in your base. In fact, I think it would be great if even guilds got rewards like this to put in their guild base. (I'm calling them guilds because I still can't get the difference between group and league straight in my head)


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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The inclusion statement was

The inclusion statement was about myself.

But if it's not about exclusivity making things as inclusive as possible seems the way to go, no?

As for a "one time event" there's no real reason in a world of Superheroes that it should be thus. Time machines or time travel to re-play said event or such like. Or just awarding every one the badges available for the event after the event is over. Maybe having some special temporary rewards during the event.

If it's not much/any more work to make something inclusionary then there's no really good reason to have it be exclusionary.

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You know, I don't recall if

You know, I don't recall if the Devs have even announced that there Will Be Badges in this game...

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

XP boosting only really helps the low levels, unless this is some sort of account wide unlock that works for alts.
Some things that are a little less player effecting could be "This set of badges will allow you to craft a little faster!"

Well the whole point of these bonuses is that their not really powers in their own right or something that's necessary to have but rather something that's just nice to have.

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I have no problem with one

I have no problem with one-time badges if the devs feel they are a useful incentive (e.g. to encourage participation in events). I leave that entirely to MWM's discretion.

Back to the OP: I would prefer the vast majority of badges confer no benefit at all (as it was in the old City). For me, the whole point of badging is that it's essentially pointless.

Spurn all ye kindle.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

The inclusion statement was about myself.
But if it's not about exclusivity making things as inclusive as possible seems the way to go, no?
As for a "one time event" there's no real reason in a world of Superheroes that it should be thus. Time machines or time travel to re-play said event or such like. Or just awarding every one the badges available for the event after the event is over. Maybe having some special temporary rewards during the event.
If it's not much/any more work to make something inclusionary then there's no really good reason to have it be exclusionary.

There's no real reason in a world of fantasy...period. :p

Doesn't have to be just super heroes who time travel.

Also, it's not about replaying anything. It's about being there for the original event. Badges should be meta to the game, not some in game, "Hey there! Let's put a badge on this costume of yours." which was always stupid for anyone who thought that of CoH badges :p

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notears wrote:
notears wrote:

Brand X wrote:
XP boosting only really helps the low levels, unless this is some sort of account wide unlock that works for alts.
Some things that are a little less player effecting could be "This set of badges will allow you to craft a little faster!"
Well the whole point of these bonuses is that their not really powers in their own right or something that's necessary to have but rather something that's just nice to have.

The comment on the XP bonus, was just that, it may not be worth even bothering to program it, if it's going to be more common to unlock it at level 50 than level 10. Not that it should be super useful.

Though, I did think the XP suggestion was one of the more, not really adding power, but gives a little encouragement to go for, aspects.

Which, isn't that really the whole point of a badge in the first place? The encouragement to defeat enemies (likely through helping others and not just street sweeping), explore the world they created and not just see the places the mission givers send you (exploration badges). The encouragement to PvP (so PvPers have more people to PvP with).

The encouragement to basically do anything they make a badge for, whether it be subbed, run a quest, if I remember correctly, CoH had a badge for spending 5 dollars on the cash shop (so encouragement to spend more money).

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It's true that time travel

It's true that time travel could be used in pretty much any genre, which makes it all the more baffling to not have it present in other MMOs.

And if it's not about the rewards and just about being there why have any rewards for being there when being there should be the reward, according to you.

Not sure what the meta-ness of badges have to do with anything I said, but it really depends on how the game defines these things. Even if they're not an thing that exists in universe I don't really see the relevance this has to the current conversation.

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Having a badge that rewards

Having a badge that rewards you for spending money on the cash shop is sleazy.

Personally when it came to badges I just got the ones that had the titles I wanted. Or I noticed I was close to getting anyway. About the only ones I went out of my way for were the accolades but that was because they gated some form of power behind them... But I think I ended up only getting one or two of them because I noticed "hey I only need a couple of things to get this." Or cause a SG member was like "Wait, you don't have x accolade? Come on!" And lead me through it.

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I have long maintained that

I have long maintained that badges giving character boni could replace most gear in supers MMOs. It's certainly a lot more genre-appropriate to learn how to fight better from one's repeated victories over Giganticus, rather than to haul away wagon-loads of stuff that fell out of his pockets.

The trick is to structure the rewards in such a way that starting characters can "badge up" at a respectable pace, while limiting the overkill on veteran characters. There is also a need to keep the rewards thematically appropriate to the task. I don't recall the details, but my impression of the DC MMO is that they went wrong on both counts.

With respect to one-time badges, I ask two things:

1) The window for completing the badge should be reasonably wide. "Logged on at Precisely 6 AM PDT on the Second Wednesday after Launch" being one example of what NOT to do. "Logged on at Least Once During the First Year" seems acceptable.

2) Such badges should be account-based. Don't penalize characters that could not have been created because their necessary power sets or whatever did not exist in-game before a certain time.

Any tangible benefits from one-time badges probably ought to be pretty small as well.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

You know, I don't recall if the Devs have even announced that there Will Be Badges in this game...
Be Well!
Fireheart

They're smart. Just sitting back watching the flames and fireworks. No snarking, oh no.
That would be non-politic.

I myself am waiting to see who manages to survive this little altercation and what the general consensus is going to be.

Just my take on the now multiple threads about this very touching subject.

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

notears wrote:
Holy crap... Radiarc has a good idea...
It's been a long ~4 years since the Kickstarter. It was bound to happen eventually. :)

This is the funniest thing I've read all day. Thank you.

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I dont think badges should

I dont think badges should provide any benefit in my opinion, should just be a really cool title you can put after your name, however it isnt really a big deal to me as long as the badges dont provide any significant or game changing bonuses.

As foolish as this seems,

Gotem.

From ya boy, Elios.

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I see people not wanting

I see posts not wanting benefits associated with badges because with hundreds of badges the bonuses would stack. But if the bonuses were tied to the titles, then it would a simple matter of using only the bonuses attached to the title you have active. I know of at least one game that already does this. So you can change your title to take advantage of the bonus you've earned, but only one at a time so as to keep players from becoming overpowered.

I think it would be perfectly acceptable in this game where customization is key that whatever title you use for bonuses does not have to be the title you display. Again, at least one other game I've played gives you this option.

Choosing one bonus to apply at a time from the selection of bonuses you have earned still makes sense if the bonuses are somehow related to the achievement that granted them. I imagine there could be achievments that reward titles and bonuses per enemy faction as we have already discussed in this thread, but there could also be achievements related to fast travel and any number of different aspects of the game.

For example: If you get the achievement to travel 100km using the swinging travel power, it grants you the title ", the swinger" which gives you a 5% speed bonus when using the swinging travel power. Then, when you've travelled 1Mm you get the title ", the swingiest" which grants you a 10% speed boost. But let's say for your character concept, you really like the title ", the swinger" so when you travel, you switch your active title over to ", the swingiest" but you continue to use ", the swinger." as your displayed title.
Then, when you get to the Rooks hideout, you swap your active title over to "the pawn" which you earned by defeating 100 rooks during street sweeping missions. "The pawn" grants an increased resistance to knockbacks, which you know are common from the rooks, so that is an appropriate bonus your character gets from gaining experience fighting that particular opponent. Besides, your other choice was to use your "Regicidal _" title, which you got from completing the first boss dungeon against the Regency faction. The "Regicidal _" title grants you an increased 2% exotic damage subtraction because it seems like every attack the Regency throws at you is exotic type. Since you know the Rooks attacks primarily use physical type damage, the bonus you got from defeating the Regency might not be as helpful in this case. And all along you've kept ", the swinger" as your displayed title.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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So... They'd essentially be

So... They'd essentially be another augment/enhancement slot.

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StellarAgent wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

You know, I don't recall if the Devs have even announced that there Will Be Badges in this game...

lol for what it's worth it would be funny if it turns out there won't be any badging system at all in CoT. ;)

Sadly though I'm pretty sure there will be some equivalent in the new game. Just a quick look under our names here in the forums shows they're already linking us to badges that the poor schmucks who haven't heard about the existence of CoT yet will never get.

But at least there's no automatic reason to think the CoT Devs will copy every last badge that CoH had into the new game. Maybe the new game will only have 50 badges, or maybe it'll have 5,000... who knows?

Obviously the time to be talking about how the new system might shape up is now more than ever.

StellarAgent wrote:

They're smart. Just sitting back watching the flames and fireworks. No snarking, oh no.
That would be non-politic.

I myself am waiting to see who manages to survive this little altercation and what the general consensus is going to be.

Just my take on the now multiple threads about this very touching subject.

Turns out this is merely just the latest "flare up" of the grand debate about badges.

Not counting the multiple times talks like these blew up on the old CoH forums the questions of "permanently exclusive" badges or the "should more badges provide Accolade-type bonuses" issues have come up before even in these forums. I suspect these "flare ups" will continue at least until we find out how the CoT Devs are going to implement these things, and then when we know for sure we'll start arguing the merits of the system we end up with.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Sadly though I'm pretty sure there will be some equivalent in the new game. Just a quick look under our names here in the forums shows they're already linking us to badges that the poor schmucks who haven't heard about the existence of CoT yet will never get.

I am absolutely flabbergasted that ANYONE would categorize people who don't get the kickstarter badge as a "poor schmuck." What kind of mental processes are going on in your head that end up in such a conclusion?
First, you are judging their worth based upon whether they have badge or not.
Second, you have to be projecting some sort of self-worth judgment into their own heads about their perceived inability to get the badges, and that's after assuming that they would even consider themselves entitled to it, which of course is after you assume they even would want them. The number of layers of assumption going on in your head amazes me.

No wonder you are so against exclusive badges. You yourself must identify with the narcissistic elitists (your own words) that you so openly deplore.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Sadly though I'm pretty sure there will be some equivalent in the new game. Just a quick look under our names here in the forums shows they're already linking us to badges that the poor schmucks who haven't heard about the existence of CoT yet will never get.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that ANYONE would categorize people who don't get the kickstarter badge as a "poor schmuck." What kind of mental processes are going on in your head that end up in such a conclusion?
First, you are judging their worth based upon whether they have badge or not.
Second, you have to be projecting some sort of self-worth judgment into their own heads about their perceived inability to get the badges, and that's after assuming that they would even consider themselves entitled to it, which of course is after you assume they even would want them. The number of layers of assumption going on in your head amazes me.
No wonder you are so against exclusive badges. You yourself must identify with the narcissistic elitists (your own words) that you so openly deplore.

I feel sorry for the people who are not going to have the opportunity to have a couple of badges in CoT that were awarded via permanent exclusivity several years ago simply because they may currently (today) be unaware this spiritual successor project even exists. So yes I consider those people "poor schmucks" for having been screwed by this game even before they're aware of its existence.

It's bad enough to have permanently exclusive badges (i.e. CoH Anniversary badges) in a game once the game launches. But to have permanently exclusive badges that exist YEARS BEFORE the game even starts is amazingly sad to me. *shrugs*

Now... whatever the heck you're ranting about here is an absolute mystery to me... did you forget your meds this morning perhaps?

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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That's if forum badges and

That's if forum badges and game badges will be linked in any way and not remaining seperate.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I feel sorry for the people who are not going to have the opportunity to have a couple of badges in CoT that were awarded via permanent exclusivity several years ago simply because they may currently (today) be unaware this spiritual successor project even exists. So yes I consider those people "poor schmucks" for having been screwed by this game even before they're aware of its existence.
Now... whatever the heck you're ranting about here is an absolute mystery to me... did you forget your meds this morning perhaps?

No. In fact I think the two of us have just provided evidence that different people are different. It would have not occurred to me that rewarding a kickstarter supporter with a kickstarter badge would even be remotely "screwing" people who were not kickstarters.
But you do.

We can argue back and forth like with Brand-X or we just acknowledge that we see the world completely differently from each other.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Lothic wrote:
I feel sorry for the people who are not going to have the opportunity to have a couple of badges in CoT that were awarded via permanent exclusivity several years ago simply because they may currently (today) be unaware this spiritual successor project even exists. So yes I consider those people "poor schmucks" for having been screwed by this game even before they're aware of its existence.
Now... whatever the heck you're ranting about here is an absolute mystery to me... did you forget your meds this morning perhaps?
No. In fact I think the two of us have just provided evidence that different people are different. It would have not occurred to me that rewarding a kickstarter supporter with a kickstarter badge would even be remotely "screwing" people who were not kickstarters. But you do. We can argue back and forth like with Brand-X or we just acknowledge that we see the world completely differently from each other.

I make no distinctions... A permanently exclusive badge is wrong regardless of what it stands for. Period.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

That's if forum badges and game badges will be linked in any way and not remaining seperate.

Fair enough. Still doesn't really excuse it for all the future players of this game that don't start becoming active in this forum until AFTER the game starts for real.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I make no distinctions... A permanently exclusive badge is wrong regardless of what it stands for. Period.

I disagree. Period.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Project_Hero wrote:
That's if forum badges and game badges will be linked in any way and not remaining seperate.
Fair enough. Still doesn't really excuse it for all the future players of this game that don't start becoming active in this forum until AFTER the game starts for real.

Do people get competitive or completionist over forum badges too? This is a whole new world to my usually easy going self.

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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I make no distinctions... A permanently exclusive badge is wrong regardless of what it stands for. Period.

I disagree. Period.

That's fine... as always YMMV.

But in a game where there are NO permanently exclusive badges there could never be "narcissistic elitists" with respect to badges because EVERYONE would be free to eventually get all the badges that ANYONE else could ever have regardless of when they started playing. It would be the ultimate "level playing field".

I suppose I will just have to continue to be utterly amazed by anyone who would want to stand against that for any reason. *shrugs*

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:
That's if forum badges and game badges will be linked in any way and not remaining seperate.
Fair enough. Still doesn't really excuse it for all the future players of this game that don't start becoming active in this forum until AFTER the game starts for real.
Do people get competitive or completionist over forum badges too? This is a whole new world to my usually easy going self.

Trust me my friend: When the game starts up for real and the new third-party badge tracking websites for CoT get created they WILL track any/all badges related to this game... including the forum ones.

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It's at times like this I'm

It's at times like this I'm glad I can just look on and shrug about such things.

But woe to those who cannot.

Edit: And possibly Whoa too.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

It's at times like this I'm glad I can just look on and shrug about such things.
But woe to those who cannot.
Edit: And possibly Whoa too.

I'll freely admit I used those third-party CoH websites but I had no hand in creating them. Read into that whatever you want...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I was meaning about badge

I was meaning about badge/achievement hunting in general.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

I was meaning about badge/achievement hunting in general.

Basically so was I. As we all know if there's a "thing" you can do in a MMORPG there will be a subset group of people who will take that "thing" to a hyper-extreme. Not making a judgment about that - just stating it as a fact good or bad.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:
I make no distinctions... A permanently exclusive badge is wrong regardless of what it stands for. Period.
I disagree. Period.
That's fine... as always YMMV.
But in a game where there are NO permanently exclusive badges there could never be "narcissistic elitists" with respect to badges because EVERYONE would be free to eventually get all the badges that ANYONE else could ever have regardless of when they started playing. It would be the ultimate "level playing field".
I suppose I will just have to continue to be utterly amazed by anyone who would want to stand against that for any reason. *shrugs*

Okay, so there could be narcissistic elitists on everything else in the game (and there would be btw..."What? Only 10% of the badges. Wow. You suck.") but for some reason, in the area of badge collecting, the idea is, bad to have them? :p

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Lothic wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:
Lothic wrote:
I make no distinctions... A permanently exclusive badge is wrong regardless of what it stands for. Period.
I disagree. Period.
That's fine... as always YMMV.
But in a game where there are NO permanently exclusive badges there could never be "narcissistic elitists" with respect to badges because EVERYONE would be free to eventually get all the badges that ANYONE else could ever have regardless of when they started playing. It would be the ultimate "level playing field".
I suppose I will just have to continue to be utterly amazed by anyone who would want to stand against that for any reason. *shrugs*
Okay, so there could be narcissistic elitists on everything else in the game (and there would be btw..."What? Only 10% of the badges. Wow. You suck.") but for some reason, in the area of badge collecting, the idea is, bad to have them? :p

Once again I was just talking about badges here. If you'd like to change the subject by discussing ways to mitigate narcissistic elitism in other parts of the game I'd be open to discuss those topics in the appropriate threads.

P.S. As far as your specific scenario of one person saying to another "What? Only 10% of the badges. Wow. You suck." goes if the game had no permanently exclusive badges then at least the guy with only 10% of the badges could CHOOSE (if he/she wanted to) to go out and get the other 90% whenever they wanted to. In a game -with- permanently exclusive badges that would likely be improbable (or impossible) to do regardless.

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Elitist jerks will be elitist

Elitist jerks will be elitist jerks about whatever they can be. The trick is to give them less stuff to easily be an elitist jerk about.

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Just put the accolades on the

Just put the accolades on the same timer (or timers if they need further categorization). Should solve the "overpowered" issue.

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Project_Hero wrote:
Project_Hero wrote:

Elitist jerks will be elitist jerks about whatever they can be. The trick is to give them less stuff to easily be an elitist jerk about.

You do that by being and fostering a friendly welcoming community such that the elitist jerks are called to the carpet for their behavior. You don't do it by shifting the blame for bad behavior onto the system.

There will always be people who cry elitist narcissist like Lothic does, even when they are not present (case in point: this exchange with Radiac). But just because some people see bogeymen where none exist doesn't mean bogeymen don't exist either. I'm not just talking about badges here. I'm talking about the whole mindset that the game should be designed to protect everyone's feelings. Newsflash: That will always be impossible. Yes, I know you're not saying the game should be designed to make elitism extinct, because that will also be impossible. I know you are saying we should just remove the obvious temptations for elitist behavior. That is a noble sentiment, but with overly-sensitive Lothics out there crying elitist at the drop of a hat, what will become of the game if we start down that path? Who do you listen to? How do you know if you've gone far enough, or if you've gone too far. No. I say be true to your intentions, MWM. If you want to reward some small group of people for doing something like supporting your kickstarter when no one else would, by all means reward them. Make it known. be open about your intentions that this is a reward! It is not a competition, it is a badge of recognition for a certain amount of courage and risk made BEFORE THE FACT, before the game was this close to completion. That kind of courage SHOULD be rewarded. I a non-kickstarter applaud all of you who took the step, who had the courage to spend your own money on something completely unproven based on faith alone.

Individuals should be held accountable for their own actions. Both the elitist narcissists and the inappropriately-victimized.

And, by the way, the business market favors catering to people who strive to be the best, not the people who want to bring everyone down to the same level. In a game were we are supposed to be someone special, the more special you make someone feel the more positive feedback you are associating between them and the game. I just hope that MWM doesn't get as addicted to achievement hunters' income as achievement hunters get to their special badges.

Interestingly enough, you will find that the people who cry foul over others' character flaws (in this case being elitist narcissists) are far more likely to share the same character flaw (be elitist narcissists themselves). That always struck me as such an interesting aspect of human behavior. I think it is the ability to recognize something in others that they are so familiar with and yet dislike in themselves; or maybe it is competitiveness, but who really knows.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.

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