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Making Titan City Run

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Mind-Freeze
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Making Titan City Run

Even superheroes have bills to pay I noticed that the forums are closing in on 22,000 users so figure 22,000*20 a month for subscription fee is 440,000 a month times 12 that’s 5.2 million a year ! And if users have multiple accounts the developers will be rewarded for making Titan City a dream come true and a well deserved income for all who have participated in creating a game that will be around for years to enjoy

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It's not clear if it's the

It's not clear if it's the final word on sub price, but I've seen $15 monthly sub bandied about on this forum by the devs in the past. Not sure where you are getting the $20 price from - maybe I missed a post?

Geveo
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Even I'm not optimistic

Even I'm not optimistic enough to think every forum account is going to translate into a paying subscription. But it is nice to see people are at least interested enough to join the forums.

5003 people donated to the KS, back in the day, and one has to think that almost all of those will give the game a serious shot. But how many will eventually subscribe will depend on roughly 17 gazillion variables, many of which are probably still a long way from being settled... sub price being one of those variables, and how that sub will translate into direct value to players is another.

Lothic
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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

Even I'm not optimistic enough to think every forum account is going to translate into a paying subscription. But it is nice to see people are at least interested enough to join the forums.
5003 people donated to the KS, back in the day, and one has to think that almost all of those will give the game a serious shot. But how many will eventually subscribe will depend on roughly 17 gazillion variables, many of which are probably still a long way from being settled... sub price being one of those variables, and how that sub will translate into direct value to players is another.

Obviously I hope MWM will be able to make as much profit off this game as possible. I'll likely do my best to continue to throw as much money at them as I can afford.

But if we are to believe what the MWM folks have said over the years I believe their overall measurement of "success" will be to earn as much money as they need to keep the game running as long as possible. They aren't after "commercial bean-counter" type success as much as "keep the game going" type success. That might mean they'll hopefully be able to operate at a relatively lower level of support than other larger companies normally might be able to tolerate.

Time will tell of course...

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Amerikatt
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I would prefer to pay only

I would prefer to pay only $15 per month for a subscription, but would be *quite* happy to pay up to $20 per month. Our Devs are certainly worth the extra $5!

*headbonkinates and hugglecates her dear Devs*

*flops over*

*takes a snooze*

*dreams about the new City of Tabbies game, even to the point of not dreaming about Mr. Boots!*

Just a cat from another star!
TitansCity
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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

Even I'm not optimistic enough to think every forum account is going to translate into a paying subscription. But it is nice to see people are at least interested enough to join the forums.
5003 people donated to the KS, back in the day, and one has to think that almost all of those will give the game a serious shot. But how many will eventually subscribe will depend on roughly 17 gazillion variables, many of which are probably still a long way from being settled... sub price being one of those variables, and how that sub will translate into direct value to players is another.

CoT facebook page has 8625 people who liked their page ^^ we also could imagine 8625 * 20 * 12... speaking about numbers like that don't mean anything :) It just gave a really large idea but that's all :) As large as Kardashian's butt (bum ? ass ?... hum you'll understand what i mean i guess ^^) ahahah !

Mind-Freeze
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I was just throwing around

I was just throwing around numbers I know 15 per month is standard MMO monthly fee but with the Kickstarter it said you get 2 free months of VIP access or monthly fee was guessing maybe 20 month for VIP fee. Inflation :-)

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There are probably a number

There are probably a number of people who made an account here just to check it out and really have no intention of playing. There are probably a few who have more than one account already. And there are the dev accounts and possibly friends/family who were just curious. That said, there's really no way to know or even guesstimate how many will be playing at launch or, more importantly, be playing in the months post-launch.

One also needs to account for all the overhead that would come off the top - hardware and software for the servers, the utility and maintenance costs to keep those going, development hardware and software, eventually an office location and all the costs there, eventual salaried staff, royalties, taxes, and all that other fun stuff, travel expenses for cons and meetings, etc, etc.

All of that will take a not insignificant chunk off the top, so one can't just multiply accounts times fees and figure that's all ducats in the hip pocket.

(insert pithy comment here)

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Plus they will be paying

Plus they will be paying Unreal after launch. You also need to factor player losses from other games if they launch before CoT.

Radiac
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10,000 people x $50 purchase

10,000 people x $50 purchase of the game = $500,000. That's not bad. Plus 10,000 people (roughly) times $10 per month = $100,000/month = $1.2mil per year for the first year anyway.

Is it really 10,000 people? Is it more like $15 per month? No idea, but that's the ballpark. I'd be shooting for at least a million in the first year, and that's if it DOESN'T have a big splash and get a great response from the players. It's not like 10,000 players (at first) is a lot to ask for/expect if the game is actually any good.

There are a billion other games now and there will be more when CoT rolls out. Those people who likes CoX will mostly likely try CoT. We all tried and played other games since CoX was killed, it's what we do.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

Kiyori Anoyui
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Dark Ether wrote:
Dark Ether wrote:

There are probably a number of people who made an account here just to check it out and really have no intention of playing. There are probably a few who have more than one account already. And there are the dev accounts and possibly friends/family who were just curious. That said, there's really no way to know or even guesstimate how many will be playing at launch or, more importantly, be playing in the months post-launch.

Just look at how many people are active on these forums, I'd say I see the same ~100 people, possible 200, that are active participants on the forums. That's out of the overall 22,000 accounts. I know a lot of people probably are active readers, rather than posters, but I feel like there are probably a lot of inactive accounts. I do think a lot of people will pay and play CoT but I'd be very surprised to see that kind of numbers. You sometimes don't even see those numbers on more popular AAA games on a day to day

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Amerikatt
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I know that I will be playing

I know that I will be playing City of Tabbies, even if I have to play a non-feline character!

Just a cat from another star!
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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Dark Ether wrote:
There are probably a number of people who made an account here just to check it out and really have no intention of playing. There are probably a few who have more than one account already. And there are the dev accounts and possibly friends/family who were just curious. That said, there's really no way to know or even guesstimate how many will be playing at launch or, more importantly, be playing in the months post-launch.

Just look at how many people are active on these forums, I'd say I see the same ~100 people, possible 200, that are active participants on the forums. That's out of the overall 22,000 accounts. I know a lot of people probably are active readers, rather than posters, but I feel like there are probably a lot of inactive accounts. I do think a lot of people will pay and play CoT but I'd be very surprised to see that kind of numbers. You sometimes don't even see those numbers on more popular AAA games on a day to day

I know I alternate between posting regularly and just lurking and reading. I was actually lurking for almost a full month before I resurfaced.

I am hopeful that there are at least a fair number of people that are still here, but not posting at all, perhaps just reading and looking for status updates.

One big thing I hope will happen more as the game approaches launch is, as well as the KS 2.0, there will be more of an advertising effort to try and get the word out there. Sometimes in Paragon Chat, I'm surprised to find a larger-than-expected number of former CoH players not even being aware that CoT exists. Or, they are among the people who think nothing has happened and the game is vaporware when, in reality, they either stopped paying attention to development or the updates on development have simply not been out in the open as much as they could be.

Name: Safehouse
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Primary: Force Blast
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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

Just look at how many people are active on these forums, I'd say I see the same ~100 people, possible 200, that are active participants on the forums. That's out of the overall 22,000 accounts. I know a lot of people probably are active readers, rather than posters, but I feel like there are probably a lot of inactive accounts. I do think a lot of people will pay and play CoT but I'd be very surprised to see that kind of numbers. You sometimes don't even see those numbers on more popular AAA games on a day to day

I think you are being generous. I would be surprised if there were more than two dozen active participants here.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I think you are being generous. I would be surprised if there were more than two dozen active participants here.

Two dozen? I don't know what your definition of an "active participant" is, but just peeking at a few popular current threads, here are 50 that have been on in the last week. I don't think this list includes any devs, and almost all of the folks on the list have been registered for several years.

In no particular order:

1. Huckleberry
2. Lothic
3. Amerikatt
4. Empyrean
5. Blacke4dawn
6. Cyclops
7. Redlynne
8. TitansCity
9. Safehouse
10. Kiyori
11. Mind-Freeze
12. Dark Ether
13. Wolfgang
14. Foradain
15. Deathwatch
16. Pyromantic
17. Radiac
18. Hero Zero
19. Hyperbolt
20. ThunderCAP
21. Desviper
22. Darth Fez
23. Kaemgen
24. Airhead
25. Ysangard
26. Hope
27. Rigel
28. Cobalt Azurean
29. Interdictor
30. Fallout1
31. StellarAgent
32. Beamrider
33. Scott Jackson
34. Brand X
35. Cyanpill
36. MeSoSollyWan
37. Cinnder
38. Notears
39. Gangrel
40. OoglyMoogly
41. Fireheart
42. Phararri
43. Brainbot
44. Li'l Thunder
45. Cutter
46. TTheDDoctor
47. Nos482
48. Fire Away
49. Impulse King
50. Me (Geveo).

And some that haven't been on the last week, but are still regulars by almost any stretch:
Grimfox
Greyhawk
SpaceMoose
Grayfigure
Izzy
TheMightyPaladin
Whiteperegrine
Solari
Kid Rad

Apologies to anyone I omitted, or to anyone whose name I misspelled. I certainly didn't check every thread.

Kiyori Anoyui
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I was going to say a fairly

I was going to say a fairly low number at first but I don't delve into quite a bit of threads so I thought I would go the safe route and go an even 100.

I do believe that the KS 2.0 will generate some new interest in the project, but not all interest will translate to more players in the game. I hope CoT can invest in some great Ad strategies to get the project to as many eyes as possible. I know I see Ads for games for about every Youtube video I watch, so that could be a great route.

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

I was going to say a fairly low number at first but I don't delve into quite a bit of threads so I thought I would go the safe route and go an even 100.
I do believe that the KS 2.0 will generate some new interest in the project, but not all interest will translate to more players in the game. I hope CoT can invest in some great Ad strategies to get the project to as many eyes as possible. I know I see Ads for games for about every Youtube video I watch, so that could be a great route.

Also getting it into the hands of some of the bigger game streamers/reviewers on YT would probably also be a good idea.

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I hope that City of Tabbies

I hope that City of Tabbies will get more advertising and media attention than City of Hairballs did!

I think that CoH relied more on word-of-mouth and the ads in its own comic book.

*shrugs*

*looks for shinies between the sofa cushions in the Forum lounge*

Just a cat from another star!
Kiyori Anoyui
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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Also getting it into the hands of some of the bigger game streamers/reviewers on YT would probably also be a good idea.

I think this would be huge, because that is how I find out about 100% of the games that I like today that I had never heard of before, Games like Cuphead, Dead by Daylight, Cloudberry Kingdom, etc. The problem would be getting these YT'ers to play a MMO, besides GTA V/Shooters I don't see that happening too often.

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"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One

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There are also people who are

There are also people who are interested, or even who backed the KS, that aren't really in to forum browsing much, let alone participating. A friend of mine backed the KS and has maybe been to these forums a couple times, tops, and they will indeed play.

Early forum participation is no real indication of much beyond those people who are interested in early forum participation.

In other words, there is no reason to cry doom at any time other than just to try to elicit a response. Have faith, and that faith should be rewarded.

(insert pithy comment here)

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There is no doom.

There is no doom.

Be Well!
Fireheart

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Forum participation is often

Forum participation is often representative of a mere 1-5% of a game's active playerbase.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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But we few who are in the

But we few who are in the Forums make up for the 95% who are not!

*frolics*

Just a cat from another star!
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I agree most people do not

I agree most people do not like forums , I know from playing COH I have developed good friendships through out the years and still keep in touch so between myself and old COH players that's a good 30 dedicated players ready to go.

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blacke4dawn wrote:
blacke4dawn wrote:

Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
I was going to say a fairly low number at first but I don't delve into quite a bit of threads so I thought I would go the safe route and go an even 100.
I do believe that the KS 2.0 will generate some new interest in the project, but not all interest will translate to more players in the game. I hope CoT can invest in some great Ad strategies to get the project to as many eyes as possible. I know I see Ads for games for about every Youtube video I watch, so that could be a great route.
Also getting it into the hands of some of the bigger game streamers/reviewers on YT would probably also be a good idea.

Years ago someone mentioned getting PewDiePie to spotlight CoT when it's out. Recently I heard he lost his YouTube channel because he said the n-word on live stream or something? So there's that risk, apparently, now.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I know on Facebook City of

I know on Facebook City of Titans has 8,265 followers so when game is set to launch good word of mouth and everyone posting links and likes would be a great head start to getting the news out that the Titans are Coming

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I think, if you set any

I think, if you set any attempt at projecting specific numbers aside, Mind-Freeze's original point is a good one. Namely, that there are enough people interested in CoT **right now** to provide a pretty solid financial foundation, if the game that MWM puts out is good enough.

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I have *every* confidence in

I have *every* confidence in our dear Devs!

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

blacke4dawn wrote:
Also getting it into the hands of some of the bigger game streamers/reviewers on YT would probably also be a good idea.
I think this would be huge, because that is how I find out about 100% of the games that I like today that I had never heard of before, Games like Cuphead, Dead by Daylight, Cloudberry Kingdom, etc. The problem would be getting these YT'ers to play a MMO, besides GTA V/Shooters I don't see that happening too often.

Not sure how big the channels who focus primarily on MMO's are but I think they have enough subbers to warrant it, if MWM doesn't get the "biggest" names in general.

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All of the games that I and

All of the games that I and my family have played were discovered after they launched - from online ads, gaming forums/websites, and Youtube gaming channels. Our forum antics represent just a very small fraction of the number of gamers who are likely to discover CoT during and after launch. Whether they stay and pay long term depends on the game's first-impression quality and the ability of the devs to expand it with content the players generally want, while avoiding the unpopular tricks (pay-to-win shop, absurd DLC pricing, etc) that can drive even a good game into the nearest ditch.

Some of the best-known games grew in population only after their good reputation spread, so that's a workable model. We (forumites) have a dual role in that model - word of mouth advertising, and supporting the devs as they use a clean business model with quality content.

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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Forum participation is often representative of a mere 1-5% of a game's active playerbase.

Case in point, this is the only game forum I have ever posted to. Until recently I would often lurk for months not logged in. When the game goes live I will have at least 2 accounts so I can play with my children.

I'm also happy to have made Geveo's list.

"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

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Hero_Zero wrote:
Hero_Zero wrote:

I'm also happy to have made Geveo's list.

I was actually "Number 2" on Geveo's list... hey... wait a minute... *starts to wonder if that wasn't some kind of deviously backhanded scatalogical insult* ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

Redlynne
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I was actually "Number 2" on Geveo's list... hey... wait a minute... *starts to wonder if that wasn't some kind of deviously backhanded scatalogical insult* ;)

Possibly ... now shut up and drink to Huckleberry's number 1 spot.

Er ...

Okay, that just came out all wrong ...


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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I was actually "Number 2" on Geveo's list... hey... wait a minute... *starts to wonder if that wasn't some kind of deviously backhanded scatalogical insult* ;)

Possibly ... now shut up and drink to Huckleberry's number 1 spot.
Er ...
Okay, that just came out all wrong ...

lol... Well Geveo claims the list was drawn up "in no particular order" but sometimes things like this do fall into place unconsciously. ;)

At least I'll give him credit for being self-deprecating enough to place himself at the bottom of his own list.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I was number three! Yay me!

I was number three!

Yay me!

Just a cat from another star!
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*checks list

*checks list*
....
Seventeenth!? Moi?
...

These lists are always a beauty contest....

Personally, I would have put Amerikatt at #1 for that reason, but only if we're going with the adorable "cartoon Amerikatt typing replies on her computer while it makes klaktity-klak noises" avatar, which I personally prefer and miss greatly even now.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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I'm number 7 on the list, so

I'm number 7 on the list, so you KNOW that something UNholy went into its creation.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.
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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

I was actually "Number 2" on Geveo's list... hey... wait a minute... *starts to wonder if that wasn't some kind of deviously backhanded scatalogical insult* ;)

"What does it take to be a number 2? One ain't no fun and three is mini me." Sung to the tune of a rap song originally invisioned as a Austin Powers parody.

"THE TITANS ARE COMING! THE TITANS ARE COMING!"

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

These lists are always a beauty contest....

Personally, I would have put Amerikatt at #1 for that reason, but only if we're going with the adorable "cartoon Amerikatt typing replies on her computer while it makes klaktity-klak noises" avatar, which I personally prefer and miss greatly even now.

Fait accompli.

The cartoon kitty is back!

I did not realize that people missed that avatar. You are the first to say anything!

Thanks for your input!

Just a cat from another star!
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Thanks. I love that the

Thanks. I love that the costume is star-spangled but in purple and pink, since cats see in greyscale.

R.S.O. of Phoenix Rising

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Radiac wrote:
Radiac wrote:

... since cats see in greyscale.

That's actually a common misconception: Cats do see in color but simply less well than we can.

As this article describes they're geared for "night vision" so they do have more rod-type retinal cells than we do but they got that advantage by having fewer cone-type cells for color. The net effect is that they are like color-blind humans in that they can see the blue end of the spectrum fairly well but have trouble with reds/oranges.

So according to the article Amerikatt would see the purple of her outfit but the stars might seem more green to her than pink.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Thanks for that article url,

Thanks for that article url, Lothic!

People have asked me why AK's costume is purple and pink, rather than red, white, and blue. The answer is quite simple: her costume *does* have red, white, blue! Red + White = Pink; Red + Blue = Purple! Red, white, and blue ... and 48 stars, too!

Just a cat from another star!
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Amerikatt does not recognize

Amerikatt does not recognize Alaska or Hawaii as states.

---
Not quite normal...

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It could be those two, or

It could be those two, or perhaps some other ones have angered her, like California and Connecticut. One never knows.

(insert pithy comment here)

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Hahaha I can’t wait to see

Hahaha I can’t wait to see all of you in a group fighting in game this is going to be fun

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Kaemgen wrote:
Kaemgen wrote:

Amerikatt does not recognize Alaska or Hawaii as states.

Being a product of the Golden and Silver Ages, Amerikatt hasn't gotten around to updating her costume for those "newfangled" states Alaska and Hawai'i.

Now get offa her pineapple plantation, ye young whippersnappers!

Just a cat from another star!
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Mind-Freeze wrote:
Mind-Freeze wrote:

Hahaha I can’t wait to see all of you in a group fighting in game this is going to be fun

Vigilance against Naughty Spawns is the responsibility of *all* civic-minded folk, Citizen!

*salutes and flies away*

Just a cat from another star!
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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Kaemgen wrote:
Amerikatt does not recognize Alaska or Hawaii as states.
Being a product of the Golden and Silver Ages, Amerikatt hasn't gotten around to updating her costume for those "newfangled" states Alaska and Hawai'i.
Now get offa her pineapple plantation, ye young whippersnappers!

Well between California and Texas continually threatening to secede and South Florida and Puerto Rico always vaguely pushing for their own statehood things might actually slide back to 48 at some point.

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Depending on the phase of the

Depending on the phase of the moon, California is either seceding, remaining as-is, splitting into 2 ≤ n ≤ 5 states, or some northern CA counties and southern Oregon counties are forming their own state called Jefferson.

Twitter: @SisterSilicon

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Come now, Sister Silicon.

Come now, Sister Silicon. You make it sound like it's that predictable. It's really much more random. Also, don't forget the cult trying to resurrect the Emperor (Norton, not Palpatine.)

Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
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How in the heck did *I* make

How in the heck did *I* make a list?!?

Yeah it's certainly true that forumgoers are a small part of the playing population. But almost all of them will promote the game to the best of their ability. Perhaps we can help focus that? Just thinking out loud here but with youtube reviewers as an example, perhaps we can choose a few as a community to actively solicit during open beta? If we manage to get 2 or 3, then others will come as I understand the process. (Sorry but youtube isn't my best area.)

Another thought is a personal advertising guide can be written up with helpful talking points. The rise of social media increases one's ability to effectively advertise and we can't overlook that either.

And that's just a "typical" forumgoer. Some of us will be able to go for a big swing or 2.

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Announcer: "After a long day

Announcer: "After a long, hot day of capturing crooks and saving iconic costumed characters stuck in trees, nothing quenches your thirst like Amerikatt Kola!"

Chorus: "Amerikatt Kola hits the spot! 12 full ounces -- that's A LOT! Twice as much -- and Boysenberry, too! Amerikatt Kola is the drink for you!"

Announcer: "Remember! The paws that refreshes! Available at KattKo and wherever fine beverages are sold! Now available in 2-liter, 3-liter, and 5-liter bottles! Another fine product of Amerikatt Foods, whose motto is "Better living through nomistry!" We now return to this thread, already in progress!"

Just a cat from another star!
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Impulse King wrote:
Impulse King wrote:

How in the heck did *I* make a list?!?

You must have said something.

(insert pithy comment here)

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There's a reason I'm never

There's a reason I'm never adding activity ranking or visible post counts to the site. :P

Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...

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Lin Chiao Feng wrote:
Lin Chiao Feng wrote:

There's a reason I'm never adding activity ranking or visible post counts to the site. :P

But... But... I wanna be an Elite Boss!!!

Name: Safehouse
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I can say as a long time

I can say as a long time lurker, I will be buying at least one copy probably 2, maybe 3 depending on if my son and wife want to play.

This is the first game that I have actually posted on the forum and not just lurked about.

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Lothic wrote:
Lothic wrote:

lol... Well Geveo claims the list was drawn up "in no particular order" but sometimes things like this do fall into place unconsciously. ;)
At least I'll give him credit for being self-deprecating enough to place himself at the bottom of his own list.

Huckleberry went first, because I was directly responding to his "two dozen" estimate. The rest of the list came mostly in the order that I found their posts while doing my search. Amerikatt, Lothic and others were up near the top because they often post in the same forum threads that I follow most closely.

Honest, I wasn't "ranking" anybody. Just trying to demonstrate that we have more than just a couple of dozen dedicated participants.

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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

Honest, I wasn't "ranking" anybody. Just trying to demonstrate that we have more than just a couple of dozen dedicated participants.

And I do "honestly" believe you. I was just making a tangential "Number 2" joke at my own expense. ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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I was at #3, which is a

I was at #3, which is a Divine number -- most appropriate since cats were worshipped in Ancient Egypt (a fact we have not forgotten)!

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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

Honest, I wasn't "ranking" anybody. Just trying to demonstrate that we have more than just a couple of dozen dedicated participants.

And in so doing helped to make my point that the actual participants are an order of magnitude less than the 100 to 200 participants that had been estimated, and even more miniscule when compared to the 22,000 registered users.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Geveo wrote:
Honest, I wasn't "ranking" anybody. Just trying to demonstrate that we have more than just a couple of dozen dedicated participants.
And in so doing helped to make my point that the actual participants are an order of magnitude less than the 100 to 200 participants that had been estimated, and even more miniscule when compared to the 22,000 registered users.

Hardly, Huck. Hardly. Don't misrepresent my statistics. I was defending, with empirical evidence, Kiyori's very reasonable estimates, not asserting that all 22K registered users (actually, my screen says barely over 21K at the moment) were active.

My count was meant to demonstrate that the 100-200 guesstimate that you went to the trouble of contesting is probably just about correct, and way WAY closer (by "orders of magnitude") than your "two dozen". I listed 59, which is well more than 2x your guess, and also well more than1/2 of 100. In terms of multipliers, Kiyori's numbers were more accurate.

You said you'd be surprised if it were "More than two dozen", so perhaps you would do well to be surprised now.

As I said, my list wasn't exhaustive. Spare me the effort of running up another 41 names of current participants to further prove you wrong. But I'm willing, if you want.

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Kaemgen wrote:
Amerikatt does not recognize Alaska or Hawaii as states.
Being a product of the Golden and Silver Ages, Amerikatt hasn't gotten around to updating her costume for those "newfangled" states Alaska and Hawai'i.
Now get offa her pineapple plantation, ye young whippersnappers!

OMG! It never dawned on me that Captain America might have awakened from the cryo sleep and gone "WTF?! Alaka?!

Though this makes me think Amerikatt is more Golden Age, as Silver Age went into the 60's (Spider-Man...possibly the best Silver Age superhero) maybe very early 70's.

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Oh, so you're one of those

Oh, so you're one of those Icers who believe Captain America fell into the ocean and somehow froze and survived. Ha!! What a rube!

(Yeah, I don't actually know what this is about, just saw something in an article about how Marvel is now having some "people" in the comics question the whole frozen Cap thing...)

---
Not quite normal...

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

OMG! It never dawned on me that Captain America might have awakened from the cryo sleep and gone "WTF?! Alaka?!

Though this makes me think Amerikatt is more Golden Age, as Silver Age went into the 60's (Spider-Man...possibly the best Silver Age superhero) maybe very early 70's.

I think that the Silver Age started around 1955 or 1956; Alaska and Hawai'i did not become USA states until 1959.

Amerikatt is ageless, but her costume is supposed to reflect that more simple time, rather than the angst-ridden, darker, and more modern times. She is a simple character from a simpler time. Maybe that is why she is so beloved amongst Forumites!

Just a cat from another star!
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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

Hardly, Huck. Hardly. Don't misrepresent my statistics. I was defending, with empirical evidence, Kiyori's very reasonable estimates, not asserting that all 22K registered users (actually, my screen says barely over 21K at the moment) were active.
My count was meant to demonstrate that the 100-200 guesstimate that you went to the trouble of contesting is probably just about correct, and way WAY closer (by "orders of magnitude") than your "two dozen". I listed 59, which is well more than 2x your guess, and also well more than1/2 of 100. In terms of multipliers, Kiyori's numbers were more accurate.
You said you'd be surprised if it were "More than two dozen", so perhaps you would do well to be surprised now.
As I said, my list wasn't exhaustive. Spare me the effort of running up another 41 names of current participants to further prove you wrong. But I'm willing, if you want.

I had no intention of misrepresenting anyone's statistics. That would imply I had a goal other than mere representation of fact. As it was, I was also attempting to defend the spirit of Kiyori's assertion by showing that perhaps it was an overestimation of the number of active participants. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of debating whether it is 2 dozen or 4 dozen or even 6 dozen, feel free to do so; but I think that misses the whole point. So if it makes you feel like you won the internet today, I will gladly admit that I am surprised it was more than two dozen. But the point is still made that the active participants are a minuscule number compared to the registered participants.

Besides, perhaps you should look up the term "order of magnitude" before you use it incorrectly. The numbers 1 to 9.999 are one order of magnitude, the numbers 10 to 99.999 are the next order of magnitude, the numbers 100 to 999.999 are another and so on, with each multiple of 10 being another order of magnitude.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

Geveo wrote:
The numbers 1 to 9.999 are one order of magnitude, the numbers 10 to 99.999 are the next order of magnitude, the numbers 100 to 999.999 are another and so on, with each multiple of 10 being another order of magnitude.

I did not really think about how orders of magnitude work (outside the concepts of things like the Richter scale) until now. Always love a day where I learn something new.

So, to call something an order of magnitude greater or less than a given number, it has to be greater by more than just by a factor of ten? It's all dependent on the initial data point that is given?

So if somebody says, for example, 67, but the actual number is an "order of magnitude" greater, that would mean the actual number falls in the order of magnitude above the 10 - 99.999 order? It would fall in the 100-999.999 order, because 67 is in the 10 - 99 order?

Sorry if I'm sounding stupid, I just want to make sure i understand.

Name: Safehouse
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

And in so doing helped to make my point that the actual participants are an order of magnitude less than the 100 to 200 participants that had been estimated, and even more miniscule when compared to the 22,000 registered users.

Huckleberry wrote:

Geveo wrote:
Besides, perhaps you should look up the term "order of magnitude" before you use it incorrectly. The numbers 1 to 9.999 are one order of magnitude, the numbers 10 to 99.999 are the next order of magnitude, the numbers 100 to 999.999 are another and so on, with each multiple of 10 being another order of magnitude.

Yes, so if I'd listed 99 names, the estimate of 100 would have been off by an "order of magnitude"... A fairly arbitrary and logically absurd method to determine the relative accuracy of the estimates in this instance, but I'll happily concede the literal definition.

Also, you conveniently ignored that my list was not a complete one, though I indicated as much. I still maintain that there almost certainly ARE over 100 active participants in these forums, which again would make Kiyori's estimate correct, and yours off by an order of magnitude.

In any event, I mostly put the list together to confirm my initial suspicion that 100-200 was a pretty good ballpark guess, and "two dozen" was absurd, and easily disproved. Having established that to my own satisfaction, I put the list out mostly for fun. But I also put it out because, if we're going to bother debating things that can be easily checked, we might as well just check them, at least in a cursory way.

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Brand X wrote:
OMG! It never dawned on me that Captain America might have awakened from the cryo sleep and gone "WTF?! Alaka?!
Though this makes me think Amerikatt is more Golden Age, as Silver Age went into the 60's (Spider-Man...possibly the best Silver Age superhero) maybe very early 70's.
I think that the Silver Age started around 1955 or 1956; Alaska and Hawai'i did not become USA states until 1959.
Amerikatt is ageless, but her costume is supposed to reflect that more simple time, rather than the angst-ridden, darker, and more modern times. She is a simple character from a simpler time. Maybe that is why she is so beloved amongst Forumites!

Yes, started before 1959, however it went way past 1959, hence the comment :p Silver Age would have likely updated the costume, as they went way past 1959 into the early 70's. Golden Age, of course, wouldn't have.

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Geveo wrote:
Geveo wrote:

Yes, so if I'd listed 99 names, the estimate of 100 would have been off by an "order of magnitude"... A fairly arbitrary and logically absurd method to determine the relative accuracy of the estimates in this instance, but I'll happily concede the literal definition.

True. In scientific notation orders of magnitude exist as the exponent of Base 10 notation. So 99 would be written as 9.9 x 101 while 100 is written as 1.0 x 102. I have also found it odd that the distinction is so defined, but there it is. It would be foolish for anyone to use orders of magnitude to compare 99 to 100. But it would certainly be acceptable to group numbers from 24 to 60 together when comparing them to numbers in the hundreds, which would be an order of magnitude greater.

And, please don't continue by trying to make a point that you can find more than 100 forum participants. I'm sure you can, but then we would be splitting the meaning of the word "active" and I'd rather not go down the path of counting the number of angels who can dance on the head of that pin. The point was made and now you would just be arguing for pride's sake.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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Huckleberry wrote:
Huckleberry wrote:

I'd rather not go down the path of counting the number of angels who can dance on the head of that pin.

According to some estimates based apparently on actual applications of information physics and quantum gravity they've established an upper bound of 8.6766×1049 angels per pinhead. Imagine if CoT had that many players in its playerbase... ;)

CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012

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Brand X wrote:
Brand X wrote:

Yes, started before 1959, however it went way past 1959, hence the comment :p Silver Age would have likely updated the costume, as they went way past 1959 into the early 70's. Golden Age, of course, wouldn't have.

*reaches into her utility cape and removes a can of Kryo Katt spray and encases herself in a block of ice*

[Continuity calamity closed!]

[[I guess if I get to play Amerikatt, I may need to update her costume to 50 stars -- *if* stars are available and if I can add 50 stars. In CoH, I was able to add 48 stars, so I went with that!]]

Just a cat from another star!
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I'm certain that the Amazing

I'm certain that the Amazing Amerikatt can count a lot of stars, but most people count "1, 2, 4, many." So, Amerikatt is free to declare the number of stars on her costume is whatever she wants. Nit-picky people might try to estimate, or even count them, but the Magnificent Moggy can still declare those people to be dummies who simply can't SEE all of her stars.

The missing 'two' stars are probably in her eyes!

Be Well!
Fireheart

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My nit picky was more of just

My nit picky was more of just making convo on the site :p

If it didn't happen, I never would've then gone and realized "OMG! The Cap woke up to a USA with more states!" :) Just never dawned on me.

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Fireheart wrote:
Fireheart wrote:

... the Magnificent Moggy can still declare those people ... simply can't SEE all of her stars.

Normal cats can stare into the Aether of Eternity for hours. Imagine what Amerikatt can see!

Fireheart wrote:

The missing 'two' stars are probably in her eyes!

QFT! Despite the tragedies in her life [violent death of her mother; Timmy Terrific becoming a catnip addict and, later, the kitty king of crime, Timmy the Tabby Terror; and her feeling of helplessness at the destruction of Galaxy City], Amerikatt continues to project an aura of hope to those around her!

Brand X wrote:

My nit picky was more of just making convo on the site :p

If it didn't happen, I never would've then gone and realized "OMG! The Cap woke up to a USA with more states!" :) Just never dawned on me.

Proof that Amerikatt is not only adorable, but educational, too!

Just a cat from another star!
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Can we at least make it heel

Can we at least make it heel-toe-heel-toe?

1) 99% of the stuff that comes out of my mouth is intended to be funny on one or more levels.
2) The other 1% is just straight BS.
3) You're never going to be entirely sure which is which.
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

Forum participation is often representative of a mere 1-5% of a game's active playerbase.

Its true...

When I played CoH, I had 20 friends of my SG every day online, but only occasionally i accessed the official forum.

Right here, for over 2 years I've been following, I see everything, only recently I started to post.

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I fully expect that once the

I fully expect that once the game goes live, I will not be checking the forums much at all. Right now the forums are just a means to appease my cravings for more CoX (and to play in theory-space). I expect I will be getting my actual experiential fix from CoT when it goes live and will no longer have to rely on mere conjecture.

Although I must admit it would be great to meet you all if MWM were to throw some sort of launch party.


I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
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I would imagine though that

I would imagine though that the amount of active forumites on here are most likely going to be the daily "regulars" that your always seeing running around. There will no doubt be any number of the potential "21-22k" other forum members that will make up the base, and new people that get on and play every now and then those that become the regulars. But I would put money on the 100-200 active members(estimate) will be the foundation of daily/monthly regulars.

There were 5k KS backers, so if anything I would call that the higher end of the potential, rather than 21-22k as that is around the amount of people who actually put money into the campain. It will be interesting to see how many new faces come around the time of the 2nd chance which may possibly alter the statistics.

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Amerikatt wrote:
Amerikatt wrote:

Brand X wrote:
OMG! It never dawned on me that Captain America might have awakened from the cryo sleep and gone "WTF?! Alaka?!
Though this makes me think Amerikatt is more Golden Age, as Silver Age went into the 60's (Spider-Man...possibly the best Silver Age superhero) maybe very early 70's.
I think that the Silver Age started around 1955 or 1956; Alaska and Hawai'i did not become USA states until 1959.
Amerikatt is ageless, but her costume is supposed to reflect that more simple time, rather than the angst-ridden, darker, and more modern times. She is a simple character from a simpler time. Maybe that is why she is so beloved amongst Forumites!

Or it could be we just love kitties. (the 16 that run around in my house would attest to that.)

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Kiyori Anoyui wrote:
Kiyori Anoyui wrote:

I would imagine though that the amount of active forumites on here are most likely going to be the daily "regulars" that your always seeing running around. There will no doubt be any number of the potential "21-22k" other forum members that will make up the base, and new people that get on and play every now and then those that become the regulars. But I would put money on the 100-200 active members(estimate) will be the foundation of daily/monthly regulars.
There were 5k KS backers, so if anything I would call that the higher end of the potential, rather than 21-22k as that is around the amount of people who actually put money into the campain. It will be interesting to see how many new faces come around the time of the 2nd chance which may possibly alter the statistics.

I agree it will be interesting to see how many new backers come in during the "Second Chance". I for one while not wishing my life away can't wait for fall / winter of 2018!

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mrultimate wrote:
mrultimate wrote:

Or it could be we just love kitties. (the 16 that run around in my house would attest to that.)

In that case, it must be because Amerikatt is known as "the most kittenishly kittenish kitten of them all!"

On behalf of the worldwide kitty community, I humbly thank-you for accepting stewardship of those 16 kitties!

*hugglecates and headbonkinates Mr. Ultimate for his selfless devotion to her people*

Just a cat from another star!
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Agreed that not many people

Agreed that not many people as a percentage of player base like forums, even more so these days with the rise of (anti)social media. ;)

I think a rare exception I've seen would have been back in the days of Neverwinter Nights where there was a huge community given that people had to learn nwscript to do anything with the toolkit. Indeed I ran a PW for quite some time and was reasonably active there. :)

Pretty sure that there are plenty of people not on these forums who are willing to give CoT a fair shot, regardless of which Superhero MMO launches first. In all honesty I can see myself possibly playing two of them because they are all offering different things. I like the CoT setting best of all the successors but the competition are all offering very compelling and interesting alternatives.

Can I just say that the wait is just killing me right now - my PS4 gaming phase is petering out and not much is interesting me on PC!

Human Flea / Union / Sci SR/Claws Scrapper
H3-AL / Union / Sci Emp/Psi Defender

Beeker
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I'm not on the list. :-(

I'm not on the list. :-(
I am Beeker and I am here. At least I think I'm here? If not disregard my post.
In my old physics circles we would joke that even if you were within an order of magnitude of you were still wrong. Hence when we answered questions about things we didn't really know about (you know how physics people get about things they don't know about) we would append our answers with the caveat, "Or at least within an order of magnitude." to make it sound more like we knew what we were talking about because giving a vast possible range like an order of magnitude to an answer would almost certainly ensure success! :-) Or at least sucess within an order of magnitude...
The price point question is interesting. What would be a reasonable price if you knew you had 2k vs 5k vs 10k accounts?
( All which seem like reasonable guesses within an order of magnitude at least). $10-$20/ month sub fee-->$20000- $200000. $200000/month seems healthyish. It's doubtful $20000 a month would be sustainable.
At 2k subs, if the price was $20/month would $40000/month work for anyone? 6-8ish full-time salaries, right? Plus upkeep/development, rent, unreal4, servers, pizza for Dr.T, ejector seats, secret underground lair, a few tanks of special "last resort" flavored Kool Aid, lazer sharks etc.
Are my numbers making sense? What are reasonable numbers for a thriving CoT project with 6-8ish employees and ongoing development... $1million / year minimum? For 20-30ish employees (which sounds more like actually thriving) I'd think 2-4x --> $2-$4 million/year. Making the OP's "optimistic" numbers look like close to a required minimum for me. (Or within an order of magnitude, at least.)
Would CoT have to go over $20/month price point or would expected sales from a cash store fill in the gaps from both subs and non-subscribers?How much development do we want this game to dedicate to a cash store? How would one find reasonable numbers for the cash store? 25-50% seems to be standing out as a good starting point... (Or at least within an order of magnitude.)

Mind-Freeze
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I know the developers went

I know the developers went with unreal 4 cause they are reasonable with pricing I think they require 5 percent of sales can’t remember the number if someone can find but with what was raised in Kickstarter and and on a volunteer time line MWM has been really good with money and how it is spent

KnightMask
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I dont know the standard in

I dont know the standard in the gaming/MMO field but just some rough numbers I came up with. If lets say they charge 16.99 for a monthly sub. And the initial goal would be at least 5K subs per month. At 17*5000 =85K per month. Which comes out to a little over a million a year. This total does NOT include any cash shop sales or donations that some might wish to make to keep the game going. At 1 Mill a year, they could easily have between 15 - 25 full time at 40K a year. This seems like a nice reasonable expectation IMO.

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Just out of curiosity, given

Just out of curiosity, given that the game won't require a subscription and will be free to play after the initial purchase - and that we don't yet know what benefits a sub will bring - on what are folks basing their estimates of numbers of subscriptions?

Spurn all ye kindle.

KnightMask
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Mostly because we all want

Mostly because we all want the game to succeed I know that I plan a sub. Plus there are bonuses to having a sub like a stipend of cash shop currency and earlier access to things in game than non subs. Obviously not everyone will sub but hopefully most of the harcore CoX players will sub to help support the game. But we will see how things play out.

Fireheart
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I believe the Subscription is

I believe the Subscription is supposed to grant advanced access to some parts of the content, and a 'Stipend' of Cash Store currency, called 'Stars'.

Here's what the Devs have posted: https://cityoftitans.com/content/whats-plan-finance

And I believe most people are pulling 'numbers' out of the air, for the purpose of speculation.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Brand X
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5k subs a month doesn't seem

5k subs a month doesn't seem like it would be that far out there, in terms of MMO popularity.

Amerikatt
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I will have a subscription,

I will have a subscription, for sure!

I imagine that other people will be buying subscriptions ... just for the *chance* of running into me in Tabby City! I am, after all, the official unofficial mascot for City of Tabbies!

*strikes an heroic pose!*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQJBnFrKoJM

Just a cat from another star!
Steamtank
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provided the server isnt a

provided the server isnt a flaming mess I will be a sub regardless of perks.

Supporting how I can, Starting up a DA group for art, stories, and concepts to be collected
http://city-of-titans.deviantart.com/
Please join up if you plan to make or collect CoT related art.

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