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Mac System Requirements

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Iathor
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Mac System Requirements

Current best guess at requirements:

MacOS 10.14 or later (definitely required): this is available on most Macs starting with 2012 models, except the lower-end MacBooks, which require 2015 or later models (though MacBook Pro models 2012 or later should be okay). Specific machine requirements for 10.14 are at https://support.apple.com/kb/SP777?locale=en_US

Processor: Intel processor (So far, Macs that meet other requirements don’t seem to be limited by CPU; Unreal support for M1 Macs is not released yet)

8GB DRAM (probably, we need more data on this, and this may increase as more of the game is released)

10GB free disk space (for current Avatar Builder release, full game is going to be much larger)

AMD discrete graphics. At least some more recent Intel integrated graphics GPUs seem to work, but frame rates are very poor unless graphics settings are very low, and the frame rates are still pretty low even with low graphics settings. NVIDIA GPUs are no longer supported by Unreal Engine, and it only sort of worked in our test, we saw lots of graphics artifacts.

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Redlynne
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Just attempted to install the

Just attempted to install the current mac client.
My computer is a 27 inch mid-2011 iMac.

macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
Processor: 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory: 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB

The installer can be copied into the Applications folder from the (opened) .dmg download ... but my OS version is too low to meet the minimum requirements.
So I can certainly verify that 10.14+ is a minimum OS version requirement for the current Mac client.

I plan (at some point) to purchase my first new Mac (in a decade) sometime either later this year or next year once Apple Silicon has iterated another chip or so (and can support a mini-LED screen).


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Iathor
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Redlynne wrote:
Redlynne wrote:

macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
Processor: 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory: 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB

I *think* the AB should run on that hardware, if you upgraded MacOS. Not entirely sure about the 2GB GDRAM, though. We haven't done a lot of testing on machines with less than 16GB of main DRAM, either, but I'm less worried about that.

Redlynne wrote:

I plan (at some point) to purchase my first new Mac (in a decade) sometime either later this year or next year once Apple Silicon has iterated another chip or so (and can support a mini-LED screen).

Please note that currently we can't support Apple Silicon Macs, since Epic hasn't released the M1-native version of Unreal Engine. And we have no ETA on that, that I know of. My vague understanding is that Unreal Engine "sorta works, sometimes" on M1 Macs. Not sure if this is special custom builds of UE4 (which developers can do from source), or running under x86 emulation, or both.

Given the current war between Epic and Apple, I'm not sure Epic has a lot of interest in putting resources toward Mac support right now, so I'm crossing my fingers on this, but not holding my breath. There was some small indication in the last update of Unreal Engine that seemed like they were moving toward support of multiple binary code formats on Mac (i.e. both Apple Silicon and x86 Macs), which is a minor hopeful sign. Also, they've done a lot of the necessary work already, in supporting Unreal on iOS. But it's also something they can withhold as leverage over Apple.

As soon as Epic puts out something like an official M1 build of UE4, I'll probably go pick up an M1-based Mac, most likely a Mini, and start trying to build and run CoT on it. For now, we're limited to Intel-based Macs.

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Redlynne
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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

if you upgraded MacOS.

Hardware limitations mean that my OS version is "orphaned" at 10.13.6 in perpetuity. So there is definitely a hard cutoff in terms of "vintage" of a hardware involved.

Iathor wrote:

Please note that currently we can't support Apple Silicon Macs, since Epic hasn't released the M1-native version of Unreal Engine. And we have no ETA on that, that I know of. My vague understanding is that Unreal Engine "sorta works, sometimes" on M1 Macs. Not sure if this is special custom builds of UE4 (which developers can do from source), or running under x86 emulation, or both.

Given the current war between Epic and Apple, I'm not sure Epic has a lot of interest in putting resources toward Mac support right now, so I'm crossing my fingers on this, but not holding my breath. There was some small indication in the last update of Unreal Engine that seemed like they were moving toward support of multiple binary code formats on Mac (i.e. both Apple Silicon and x86 Macs), which is a minor hopeful sign. Also, they've done a lot of the necessary work already, in supporting Unreal on iOS. But it's also something they can withhold as leverage over Apple.

As soon as Epic puts out something like an official M1 build of UE4, I'll probably go pick up an M1-based Mac, most likely a Mini, and start trying to build and run CoT on it. For now, we're limited to Intel-based Macs.

The spat between the two companies isn't/can't/shouldn't last forever ... there's simply too much money to be made (by both of them) to allow the current standoff to persist in perpetuity.
Of course, that's assuming pragmatic and/or rational actors are involved, rather than overgrown spiteful egomaniacs ...


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Iathor
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Ah, I hadn't realized that

Ah, I hadn't realized that the 10.14 cutoff was 2011. I should have, I've got some older machines around here, still. But then I generally don't try to keep the older machines up to date, they're often around because some old piece of software is on them that might not survive the update.

I do hope the Apple/Epic fight gets resolved, but I fear that Epic's real goal is to get their store onto iOS, and there are very good reasons why Apple isn't likely to let that happen unless forced by legislation or a court decree. Whether there's a middle ground they can settle on, I have no idea.

I was kind of hoping the new Apple TV would gain an M1 chip and be more oriented to higher end gaming, but they didn't go that route. That said, I have no evidence for how well UE4 might run on M1s. Just comparing specs, it looks like it might work about as well as my old 2015 MacBook Pro with the AMD GPU, which i was using for development here for quite a while, but it's very hard to say for sure.

I'm not *quite* bored enough to try to build UE4 from scratch for the M1, just to see. I'd rather let Epic deal with it, but I'm willing to be an early adopter.

I updated the requirements post up top with the machine info; thanks for bringing that to my attention.

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Redlynne
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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

I updated the requirements post up top with the machine info; thanks for bringing that to my attention.

/em hat tip


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Iathor wrote:
Iathor wrote:

As soon as Epic puts out something like an official M1 build of UE4, I'll probably go pick up an M1-based Mac, most likely a Mini, and start trying to build and run CoT on it. For now, we're limited to Intel-based Macs.

Soooo… I got a 13" MBP with the 8-core GPU/16GB RAM M1 configuration, decided to f*** around, and found out that the Intel build Just Works™ under Rosetta 2. I haven't done any exhaustive testing yet, just grabbed one of the Rooks costumes and ran around the test island for a bit (because game navigation with a laptop touchpad sucks), but the fundamentals seem to be there, and it seemed to be locked at 60fps at 1440x900.

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An update: Hooked the Mac up

An update: Hooked the Mac up to a 4K display for some testing with a real keyboard and mouse. I set the graphics settings to 1920x1080/Epic preset, spent an "appropriate" amount of time in the avatar builder for a costume contest participant (which would be inappropriate for a normal person), and loaded into the test island. At those settings, I mostly saw around 30 fps, with drops into the mid-high 20s when I stood in the town square and faced the lighthouse or when the jack-o-lantern particle effects fired. For alpha software running in instruction set emulation, that's more than decent. While on the test island I took the resolution up to 3840x2160/Epic, for science, and got 9-10 fps. But it never crashed, and the Mac's fan kept things warm but not hot.

Looks good on any OS, doesn't it?

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Iathor
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SisterSilicon wrote:
SisterSilicon wrote:
Iathor wrote:

As soon as Epic puts out something like an official M1 build of UE4, I'll probably go pick up an M1-based Mac, most likely a Mini, and start trying to build and run CoT on it. For now, we're limited to Intel-based Macs.

Soooo… I got a 13" MBP with the 8-core GPU/16GB RAM M1 configuration, decided to f*** around, and found out that the Intel build Just Works™ under Rosetta 2. I haven't done any exhaustive testing yet, just grabbed one of the Rooks costumes and ran around the test island for a bit (because game navigation with a laptop touchpad sucks), but the fundamentals seem to be there, and it seemed to be locked at 60fps at 1440x900.

Okay, that's pretty amazing, and thank you so much for trying that!

I'm running on the last Intel 16" MacBook Pro with the highest end Radeon chipset, and at 1536x960, the island runs at about 55-60fps on the default graphics settings, which is High. On Epic, it runs about 45fps.

As far as trackpad navigation goes, I know that pain, that's what I use almost all the time, though I do use a mouse once in a while. I usually hold down the W key to move around and just steer with one finger on the trackpad. Note that, in theory, you can use a gamepad to move around on the island. I don't know if anyone has tested that, but the input bindings are there for gamepads. Most of the UI isn't set up for gamepad navigation, though, except it should work in the ESC menu.

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Iathor
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SisterSilicon wrote:
SisterSilicon wrote:

An update: Hooked the Mac up to a 4K display for some testing with a real keyboard and mouse. I set the graphics settings to 1920x1080/Epic preset, spent an "appropriate" amount of time in the avatar builder for a costume contest participant (which would be inappropriate for a normal person), and loaded into the test island. At those settings, I mostly saw around 30 fps, with drops into the mid-high 20s when I stood in the town square and faced the lighthouse or when the jack-o-lantern particle effects fired. For alpha software running in instruction set emulation, that's more than decent. While on the test island I took the resolution up to 3840x2160/Epic, for science, and got 9-10 fps. But it never crashed, and the Mac's fan kept things warm but not hot.

Again, thank you for doing all that testing!

One thing I would like to know is what the settings switch to if you use the "Benchmark" button in the Graphics settings menu, both for the native screen and the 4k. That button runs Unreal's graphics benchmark tests and changes the settings to what they think is optimum for the particular machine setup.

I am frankly amazed that it's running that fast on a 4k display with the M1 integrated graphics; I knew they were supposed to be good, but that's really close to what I'm getting with the maxed-out Radeon mobile chip on my 16" Intel MBP. I don't have a 4k display to try it on, would be interesting to get a comparison.

For a comparison point, one of the devs ran the AB on a fairly old Mac Mini with integrated Intel graphics. It worked. Sorta. At a very low frame rate. What a major advance!

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I was impressed that 4K was

I was genuinely impressed that 4K was still measurable in frames per second, not seconds per frame, running on a jumped-up phone GPU.

Controller support: I paired a DualShock 4 via Bluetooth, and it's a bit flaky. I could mostly navigate option lists in menus with the d-pad, unless the list had a scroll bar. If I tried to scroll past the last visible item, it snapped back to the top. I couldn't get to the Apply/Back/etc. buttons at the bottom. O to go back worked, though. Once on the test island, though, things went south. The left stick worked fine for walking and running, but the right stick only moved the camera on the y-axis. I couldn't turn the camera or the character. When I went into the gamepad bindings, the only listed options were Jump and "Crouch". (I'm guessing from the lack of keyboard binding for crouch that it's not supposed to be there for controllers.) Jump was pre-bound to A/X, and I was able to bind "Crouch" to B/O. LB/L1 and RB/R1 also worked. I tried LT/L2 for Jump and it's strictly on/off. I haven't tried using a controller in Windows, so I don't know if that's expected or if jump height should be analog. (I was hoping "Crouch" was just a mislabeled Sprint but it was not to be. Couldn't sprint at all with the controller.)

UPDATE: I tried an Xbox One controller with Windows, and saw exactly the same behaviors as the DS4 on macOS, so at best there are no regressions in controller support on an M1 Mac.

If I tried the Esc menu from the island, I could Resume or enter Options, but if I tried to move down to "Back to Main Menu", the selection box disappeared. That happens with the keyboard as well.

Built-in display, 1440x900 resolution: Benchmark came up with the High preset (all Quality options to High, TAA anti-aliasing method), Far View Distance and all toggles On under Advanced, all Ray Tracing options Off, DLSS Off, 87% resolution scale. Frame rates were around 60 as long as the camera wasn't aimed at the far end of the island, dipping to 45 when a jack-o-lantern was triggered. Looking at the far end of the island, frame rates dropped down to around 35, with jack-o-lanterns dropping to 25. The fireworks didn't have any noticeable affect on frame rate.

Built-in display, max resolution: Something is capping the built-in display to 2560x1600 in the game, but I don't know if it's macOS or Unreal Engine. (macOS only lets me scale the desktop to a logical 1680x1050 even though the native resolution is 2880x1800, so that might be part of it. It's more lax with desktop scaling on external displays.) At 2560x1600, the benchmark settings are surprisingly the same as 1440x900. On the test island, frame rates varied more, from 30 to 40 when not looking end-to-end. Aiming the camera end-to-end dropped frame rates to around 21.

Hopefully, I'll have time tomorrow to run 4K external display tests. It depends on when Amazon remembers which truck is carrying the new SSD for my Windows rig (that was supposed to be delivered yesterday but still isn't here today).

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Finally got around to that

Finally got around to that 3840x2160 test. The benchmark was identical to 1440x900, except Lens Flares were turned Off. I'm not sure if the benchmark came up with that, or if I had previously turned it off and it wasn't affected. (They're a bit much for my tastes.) At those settings, I saw around 21 fps if I wasn't facing the far end of the island, dropping to 13 for jack-o-lantern effects. Facing the far end of the island, 13-17, dropping to 12-15 for jack-o-lanterns.

I wanted to see if I could at least get to 30 fps without facing the far end of the island, and as long as I stayed at 87% resolution scaling, I could get there with the Medium preset, AA off, and dropping Effects and Post-Processing to Low. (Those last two seem to be heavy hitters for frame time.) One benefit of M1: I could run Epic textures with no adverse effect thanks to the unified memory architecture. 16GB of shared RAM meant it was never starved for texture memory. The View Distance setting doesn't seem to have any effect, however. No matter what setting I used, I could stand on the lighthouse at one end of the island and see the other lighthouse without any visible change in distance or level of detail.

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Iathor
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Much thanks for all your hard

Much thanks for all your hard work testing out various configurations!

I'm truly amazed at how much the M1 is able to do. Not sure how much the unified memory helps with that, but Unreal has been running on iOS for a while, so I assume they use the integrated graphics architecture fairly efficiently, even if they think they're running on a desktop-grade OS.

Supported resolutions: those are decided by Unreal, though I think they can be overridden in one of the Unreal config .ini files. My 16" MacBook Pro shows the highest option at 3584x2240, along with some other resolutions in that range. I have no idea where Unreal got that from, since the native screen is 3072x1920 and it's never been hooked up to an external monitor.

Thanks for the all the gamepad testing and bug notes. I have been assuming that if arrow key navigation is working correctly in the menus, then the gamepad should be also. Apparently that's not true. The menu package has its own set of internal bindings for gamepads, and it's supposed to have pretty robust gamepad support; the devs for that package do gamepad primarily, I think. So I probably broke something when I adapted their code to our game... Not sure when I can get a chance to look at the gamepad issues; I do have a PS4 in the house, so I hope I can test with its controllers when I need to. I would expect the island to work; the gamepad bindings should be Unreal's standard gamepad keybinding setup for movement and camera. It may be we're missing one or more gamepad events that don't come through the Unreal keybinding system, though. That's probably a quick fix, when I get a chance to try to set up a controller.

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1.8 Ghz Core 2 Duo CPU

1.8 Ghz Core 2 Duo CPU
4 GB RAM
80 GB HDD
802.1 1n (laptop)
OS X 10.6
Microphone and Camera built-in spice money login
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Iathor
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kameshbhai511 wrote:
kameshbhai511 wrote:

1.8 Ghz Core 2 Duo CPU
4 GB RAM
80 GB HDD
802.1 1n (laptop)
OS X 10.6
Microphone and Camera built-in

OSX 10.14 is an absolute minimum, Unreal will not run on anything earlier. 10.6 is far too old.

Even if that were fixed, the machine specs are almost certainly too low as well. The Avatar Builder is already around 10GB, and the game is likely to grow much larger as we get real zones added to it, so the 80GB drive is almost certain to be too small at some point; it probably isn’t even big enough for recent OSX releases. You don’t list the GPU, but from the other specs, I’m guessing it’s probably a fairly old Intel integrated GPU, which is very unlikely to perform well, if it works at all.

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