At this point, there’s a lot of information to dig through, and from what I can tell, much of it currently scattered among several locations, so I’ll ask here.
What is there in the lore regarding mythology/mythological beings?
Marvel has Thor and the “Asgardians” (more properly known as the Aesir from Norse mythology) and DC has not only Wonder Woman and the Greek gods, but also Jack Kirby’s ‘New Gods’ (who are supposed to be the survivors of Ragnarok aka the Norse ‘end of the world’ apocalypse). DC also has, for example, the Phantom Stranger, who does what he does at the bidding of a mysterious ‘higher power’, Kirby’s Etrigan (who was unfortunately retconned into something radically different from Kirby’s original depiction), the Spectre, etc. So what does CoT have along these lines?
I'm not aware that mythology plays a part in the city of Titans.
I've suggested the Headless Horseman be a part of Halloween events, but I've not seen any great rush to imitate DC in this manner.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
Well your definition of "mythologic characters" seems to cast a wide net across almost anything that might have a "supernatural" and/or semi-divine nature about them. I'm sure out of all the background material for all the NPCs and factions the Devs have already generated for this game that at least some of it falls into those categories.
To be fair most of the classical myths/pantheons are already covered by the likes of DC and Marvel. It'd be hard for example for CoT to do any "Norse" stuff without almost instantly stepping on the toes of Thor, Odin, etc. Their best bet might be to generate new collections of characters that might be considered a "group of gods" from another planet or what-not. Of course they could also jump into some lesser known mythological sources from Earth (like maybe Celtic or Native American traditions).
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster pantheon.
In our lore, myths are based on ancient people who had superior capabilities, just like the modern players do. We've said before, tall tales, urban myths, and ancient mythology, is all rooted on people with extraordinary ability, be it incredible skill, being able to fly, or to breathe fire.
There are god-like beings, but they are not pantheons as we imagine them. They are the super-rare eldrich being, so far beyond human understanding that it boggles the mind. And some of these are fully man-made to boot.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I like this direction more than creating divine gods, like Thor. While thinking along the lines of your explanation, however, I'm ultimately drawn to the thought that eventually there would be a 'titan' with the perfect 'mutation' would be, for all intents and purposes, a god. He/she might have the perfect balance of powers or he/she is truly invulnerable or magical to the point of being on par with Odin. This titan could also have, because of this perfect mix of mutation (or whatever causes the titans supernatural abilities), a near timeless lifespan. Think Wolverine's regen ability and how it affected his age but much more powerful and lasting.
I just think that in a world where people can actually become supernatural or mutations similar to the supernatural exist, that evolution would eventually perfect it in at least one person. Eventually. Because that is what evolution is, right? Becoming better? I would argue that the 'dumbest intelligent' caveman is superior to the 'smartest unintelligent' being because of speech, innovation, and the ability to think through problems. Obviously there are some small caveats as some animals, like chimps for example, can use 'tools' and problem solve to some degree, but I would argue that this primitive level of intelligence is negligible compared to humans.
But I digress in my argument to myself. Let me put the straight jacket back on.
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
As far as the question of whether there could/should be "godlike beings" (a.k.a. Titans) among either the NPCs or PCs in CoT I'd say why not. Sure eventually there will be people who'll push their min/maxing to the limit and technically become more "powerful" than any others, whatever that ends up meaning.
Not to get off in the weeds but evolution (or more specifically natural selection) isn't about getting to some kind of "end goal of perfection". It's just about adapting to the environment you're living in.
For instance there's no guarantee human beings are going to keep evolving to become more and more intelligent. If our world changes to the point where it's actually advantageous for us to become more stupid (on average) than we are now then [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy]that's what's going to happen[/url]. One could argue that the impending AI revolution might produce machines that'll cater to our every whim (assuming they don't kill us 10 milliseconds after the AI Singularity happens) and we could very easily find ourselves in a position where we don't have to think for ourselves anymore.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
You just made me think of what happened to the people on the "Axiom" in the movie Wall-E.
Thanks
I think
To the original question though, Myth is what you make. We (as a collective society) have probably discarded more myths in our history than are currently "in vogue". Every generation creates its own myths, and discards just as many, if not more. I like that this is a world wherein we can potentially become part of the mythology and maybe supplant the old ones.
Yes, I actually almost mentioned the people of the Axiom as another example of "de-evolution" myself.
[EDIT]Here's a vid that talks about some "real world" examples of things like this happening to people now:[/EDIT]
[youtube=450x300]T3fOf5YZI-Q[/youtube]
Hopefully there will be players who become "mythic" amongst the playerbase based on their own actions. ;)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
We remember Ascendant.
To those who may not have seen and/or read his scripts, you can find them on ParagonWiki, and I think on YouTube.
No comment
*laughs maniacally*
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
This kind of reminds me of "American Gods", where the old gods like Odin, Anansi, Thoth, etc. are all reduced in power, but new gods based on the Internet, Television, and the Stock Market are born.
So a giant spider-like creature called "Internet" is responsible for all the crap that happens in the World Wide WEB?
Or Mike telling us what is what on TV?
Joel and the bots making funny comments while you're on a mission. You can't stop them and you can hear the laughter of millions.
[img]https://s15.postimg.cc/z9bk1znkb/Black_Falcon_Sig_in_Progess.jpg[/img]
#TeamCrow4Life
#cambotismyhomie
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Expanding on that idea, you also have the possibility of the allegedly perfectly mutated being who is obsessed with removing any flaws and views imperfection within his abilities as weaknesses. Think like Ayesha or Cell.
[B]Revenge is motivation enough. At least it's honest...[/B]
Roleplayer; Esteemed Villain
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg[/img]
If only we knew of anybody like that.... Tick Tock everyone.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Hmmm.... teaser.
Overclock? Probably not because he's a robot... unless he's made himself into a robot to remove all his flaws... hmmmm
Idle? Can slow down time, but while that resonates with the "Tick Tock" clue, I don't see it as having much to do with a pursuit of perfection
Or maybe you're referring to Wayang, who was transformed into a hulkish brute by a team of mad scientists?
I love teasers.
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
Or I could be referencing we've never even discussed, nor will we, for it is an upcoming surprise. After all, it grinds my gears when a surprise is ruined. I get all steamed up.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Clearly:
[Img]https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//2/22/Nemesis.jpg[/img]
/s
Poppycock, young whipper snapper. The crowned heads of Europe trembled before this nightmare.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Of course, what is mythology but history through the lens of dreamers?
It is only when we stand up, with all our failings and sufferings, and try to support others rather than withdraw into ourselves, that we can fully live the life of community.
[color=#ff0000]Business Director[/color]
*suppresses anti-myth rage*
I like that approach, mythologized history. Achilles was actually an invulnerable person, Rasputin did have some regeneration ability, st whatever could call doves.
I still like my interdimensional being approach, they come from a plane where gods are more ......hands on ;) And bring their powers with them.
[hr]
[color=red]PR, Forum Moderator[/color]
[url=http://cityoftitans.com/forum/desvipers-creative-impulsivity]My Non-Canon Backstories[/url]
Avatar by MikeNovember
One thing I like about this approach is, that there is no functional difference between a girl who just thinks the Nasty Mages made her an avatar of Freya (but actually they only gave her powers) and a girl who the Nasty Mages made an avatar of Freya. Certainly not from the point of view of the late Nasty Mages...
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
With the "Tick Tock" phrase earlier in the thread and all the "old-timey" references it sort of sounds like you're referring to "The Terror" from the Tick universe.
[img=400x400]http://img2.tvtome.com/i/u/a6b67252f8d94c2fcc01badf812699ed.jpg[/img]
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
While a good guess, no. Too tall.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Cast Iron?
The Vampire Comte de Saint Germain?
Robur le Conquérant?
Foradain, Mage of Phoenix Rising.
[url=https://cityoftitans.com/forum/foradains-character-conclave]Foradain's Character Conclave[/url]
.
Avatar courtesy of [s]Satellite9[/s] [url=https://www.instagram.com/irezoomie/]Irezoomie[/url]
Now you're getting warmer. One of the inspirations for it, certainly.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Really. Then are we talking about an Aether Pirates boss?
[hr]I like to take your ideas and supersize them. This isn't criticism, it is flattery. I come with nothing but good will and a spirit of team-building. If you take what I write any other way, that is probably just because I wasn't very clear.
*chuckles evilly*
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I gotta ask now: Is it Doctor Tyche? Is he in charge of the Aether Pirates?
Hell no. Tyche is a 50's style mad scientist, and wouldn't be caught dead dealing with any of the steampunk groups.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
hahaha alright alright
Ahhh, and here I thought you were making an oblique Doomsday reference (via the recent Doomsday Clock series from DC).
To get this vastly derailed train back on topic, let me expand/rephrase my original question, as it’s apparent by the responses so far that you won’t be bringing any specific pantheons into the game as characters...
The world which contains Titan City is obviously different from our own in many ways, and at some point, somewhere in my recent archeological expedition to try to understand the setting my eyes took in the phrase “the titans have always been there”. So...what I’m wondering is, how does that affect things like ancient myths, legends, lore, religion, and spirituality? What (neo-)pagan faiths or other belief systems are there, for instance?
This is really primarily relevant to building/expanding character backgrounds and so forth, as such things can strongly shape if not wholly define how a person views or thinks about many things in their lives. And as it affects people, it can also have a wider influence beyond individuals. For example, is a particular belief system still practiced in a certain part of the world, so deeply ingrained in the region’s culture that it’s impossible to separate the two (Japan/Shinto as a real world example)? Is there some sort of doomsday cult that makes a point of trying to convince everyone else that ‘the end is nigh’? Preachers who declare titans to be saints/angels/whatever? Other preachers who proclaim them to be demons? Enlightened spiritual leaders who lived at various points in history around whom a major world religion sprang up?
(BTW, both DC and Marvel have covered the Norse gods - Marvel directly via Thor, and DC less directly with Jack Kirby’s New Gods (they’re supposed to be the survivors of Ragnarok) - but both have mostly if not entirely ignored the Vanir half of the Norse pantheon)
Tyche is one name of Lady Luck. Dame Fortune, Fate.
Doctor Tyche, is more likely to be a devotee of Electricity and the Atom, than Steam, or Deisel.
As for Mythology, several of my characters draw themes from human myth. I have the cosmic college professor and his 'Phoenix-powered' rebirth. I have the 10-thousand-year-old woman who played 'host' for god-like powers as a priestess of many goddesses through time. And I have the Black Valkyrie who says she remembers when the Aesir conquered the Vanir and how she went to join and serve the Aesir but rebelled against their power paradigm some five millennia ago. They are all drawn to serve in this 'New Age of Heroes'.
Be Well!
Fireheart
People don't *know* which myths are based on what, so for the most part religions have persisted as they have here. People want to believe, in whatever. We are not specifying details, so as to not limit our players imaginations.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
So, essentially, the presence of titans hasn’t noticeably influenced that aspect of humanity into a different direction than in real life, they just happen to *be* the ones some of the myths are about (Cú Chulainn, the Morrigan, Amaterasu, Coyote, Changing Woman, Buddha, Kali, the Tuatha Dé Danann, etc)?
(I’ve been known to write backgrounds a dozen pages long for my Shadowrun characters...trying to fill in blanks in my understanding of the setting as much as possible so I can have character ideas ready that will fit into the setting as completely as possible. Sorry if I’m being annoying :P)
He is saying that nothing will stop the player to invent an Anubi's character if they (the devs) don't invent him for first. When you create a "Thor" npc you destroy any possible different Thor players may want to create as their main character.
If the devs ever decide the norse gods are technological aliens, that would limit the possibility for the players to come out with a different story (for example a mystical origin).
Therefore the general idea is that myths are hypothetically and generally linked to Titans but the player is completely free to build upon this generic base and therefore feel free to invent anything for their character. Lore is usually an inspiration for most mmorpgs, but for this one it may as well become a prison if too detailed (because players have the potential to create everything), which is why I like they're so careful about it.
Don't mind the devs using and coming up with their idea.
Marvel MMO? They have a mythology.
DC MMO? Mythology of their own.
Settings you play in tend to.
Ahh, gotcha. He’s saying “sandbox it”.
But really, my question wasn’t about the behind-the-scenes “this is how it is”. Maybe the question is better worded as “what are some common religious/spiritual/mystical belief systems in the world of the Titans?”
I’m not asking for the “This is how the world *actually* works” facts/truth of the matter, more... “I believe in fairies” “the world is a giant disc carried by four elephants riding on the back of the cosmic turtle as it swims through the universe” “we were genetically engineered by ancient alien astronauts to be their slave labor” “in nomine patri, et filii, et spiritus sancti” “our world is a piece of chewing gum god stuck under his desk when he was a child” “I go to church on Sundays and Wednesdays” “I worship the goddess and make offerings to her on every full moon” “there is too a Santa Claus!” information. Not what actually is, but examples of what various people and (particularly) groups within the setting believe. :)
Well, and maybe things like “St. Anthony’s Cathedral graciously allows the local Lord And Lady Wicca coven to use the back corner of the grounds for their full moon bonfire rituals”. ;)
Hmm, I think the Devs are saying 'Make up your own'.
Be Well!
Fireheart
And in fact they limit imagination. You have the possibility to create an infinite potential, why limit yourself?
In Marvel and DC mmorpgs the "limited imagination" is a cost "well spent" to get the known and famous lore and the loved characters, but City of Titans wouldn't get any advantage in limiting imagination, just the cost.
Hints of the cost:
1) Do you know the role-play community in DC Universe is only role-playing existing characters or clones or cousins of Superman/Batman/Flash etc.? I'm sure if you google a little you'll find out what happened there and the actual situation in characters creation from the majority of peoples.
2) DC Universe Online "we don't care for the imagination of the players but just to attract them with the famous brand/lore" is a clear developing choice by now, another proof is the poor character creation from all sides, from costumes to powers. So limited that's difficult even to create DC-like chars with pathetic power selection and customization in general.
3) The Marvel mmorpg is even more restrictive than the DC counterpart, since you cannot create your own character at all
4) The Marvel mmorpg has been officially closed, therefore failed even more than DCUO.
Those games don't care at all about following City of Heroes steps nor give any hint of freedom to players, and in fact both have failed. I'm not sure you'd like to follow their steps with City of Titans, ^^".
Also CoT devs seem careful with limiting imagination but they still lost more time about the lore than any other project out there (a "ship" comes to my mind... how to start with an obscene lore that limits imagination for no reason), seen by a majority of lore-centric updates through the years just recently overshadowed by tech ones (since the release time is getting closer).
So I wouldn't worry about the lore here, they already seem the best we could get on that side, nor we really need a detailed one as a community (CoH teachings).
Ok, I’ll make one last attempt at wording this in a way that people will understand (because, yeah, I often find it difficult to make clear what I mean, especially in situations where I don’t know the people who are likely to respond *very* well).
My understanding so far, is that the world of the Titans is being developed the way most in the superhero genre are: basically “like the real world, but with superheroes and super villains”. And of course, just the presence of those beings changes many things, some more than others.
What I’m trying to find out is this. Within the world of the Titans:
Does Catholicism exist? Buddhism? Wicca? Traditional Native American spiritual practices? How has the presence of the titans caused these to develop differently than in the real world, if they do?
I get that putting too much detail into something like this can be limiting. But too little information also carries problems:
“My character’s Catholic” “Catholics don’t exist, Titans destroyed them centuries ago in retaliation for the Inquisition!”
Also, even having barebones information creates story hooks and is useful as a tool or even vehicle for storytelling:
A hitman’s target might be deeply religious and never miss church. The hitman might disguise himself as a priest and carry out the hit in the church. Or, if he carries out the hit somewhere else and hides the body, missing church might be how his friends figure out something’s wrong and lead to them either finding his body or alerting the police (or even asking a local hero they know for help), and eventually the hitman’s tracked down, resulting in a big fight.
And barebones is all I’m really asking about.
Yes, you will find Catholics, Protestants, LDS, Jehovahs Witnesses, Hebrews, various folk religions, etc. You will also run across lore-focused cults and such as well, but getting into spoiler-zone there. To drop a hint, think that Lovecraftian mythos has a lot more adherants here.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Yeah, weirdo nutcase cults are *always* a spoiler :)
They also exist in every setting imaginable :)
Thank you, now I have what I was looking for, between this and your earlier reply about not creating any mythological figures as NPCs :)
DC's problem was that it's starting story locked everyone into the same origin. Which is not what having a history means. :p
Norse Dieties being aliens, for example, won't limit the RP imagination as much as DC's lame beginning starting.
As for them all being sons/daughters/cousins of established characters, that's not DC, that's dumb people with no imagination. Just like we had plenty of dumb people who made those same type of characters in CoH
That was me, not Doc Tyche. He just said they would try to avoid limiting players imagination by remaining as generic as possible on myths (less details).
Imho you're underestimating the power of the devs on the community; either you create a game by thinking that players imagination have got some value or you don't, and there are consequences for that. What happened in DC Universe Online didn't happen in City of Heroes, DCUO saw a war between 2 kind of role-players where in City of Heroes those coexisted.
In DCUO the players role-playing only clones of famous characters have completely excluded the ones role-playing new chars, simply because they were the majority therefore the few others slowly left the game.
The reason is not "the community was dumb" but it's related to the strong game's limits which made it difficult to use players imagination and easier to role-play clones of the famous characters (by giving you cash-shop based Flash shirts/auras etc.) because the devs built the game that way.
It's not the community that decided to never update the character creator which is still nothing compared to what City of Heroes had at release.
It's not the community that decided to have 5 tank powers only: 2 are golems (ICE, EARTH) and 3 are based on fire (FIRE, ATOMIC, RAGE which is a Red Lantern) therefore after years from the game release you still can basically create just the Thing or the Human Torch there. We all know City of Heroes already permitted so much more (invulnerability, regen, dodging, shield etc.).
All these developing choices have consequences on your players base and how they behave.
Plus, City of Titans lore is closer to City of H. one than the ultra-famous Marvel and DC lores. Therefore nor DC nor Marvel mmorpgs are an example to follow at all when you decide to create a super-heroic mmorpg since both had a famous brand and both failed even with that advantage.
I would remind that City of Heroes was among the first 5 most populated MMORPGs during its first release years (with WOW, LOTRO and others I don't remember, maybe the previous Final Fantasy). City of Heroes is not just a good memory for nostalgic players, it was successful, therefore an example to follow.
DC and Marvel were far from reaching the "podium" on their best years, and that's because they decided to ignore City of Heroes teachings and that they could delete the imagination and customization simply because they got the famous brand: they were apparently wrong.
Just because it has less choices, doesn't mean one has to RP as a clone of an established character or son/daughter/whatever family.
That is not a from the limit of the DC game, but the players.
Also, Marvel's MMO wasn't even an MMO, it was Diablo with a Marvel skin. You didn't get to create your own character, you picked from a list of established ones.
DC's game just gave a starting tutorial and said "this is how you got your powers" now from right there, it's basically saying, "You're not a clone of or daughter/son of" whoever the player wants to copy.
On that aspect, from a RP standpoint, they, the RPers, could've easily ignored it.
Hell, people ignored CoH lore all the time and with ease.
If you were an RPer, let me ask you, did you RP with CoH's lore of how the origins worked? There was a whole mission dedicated to it.