Join the ongoing conversation on Discord: https://discord.gg/w6Tpkp2
Please read the current update for instructions on downloading the latest update. Players with Mac versions of the game will not be affected, but you will have a slightly longer wait for your version of the new maps. Please make a copy of your character folder before running the new update, just to make sure you don't lose any of your custom work.
It looks like we can give everyone a list of minimum specs for running City of Titans. Please keep in mind that this is 'for now' until we are able to add more graphics and other system refinements. Currently you will need :
Windows 10 or later required; no Intel integrated graphics like UHD, must have AMD or NVIDIA card or discrete chipset with 4Gb or more of VRAM
At least 16GB of main DRAM.
These stats may change as we continue to test.
To purchase your copy of the City of Titans Launcher, visit our store at https://store.missingworldsmedia.com/ A purchase of $50 or more will give you a link to download the Launcher for Windows or Mac based machines.
I have nothing against CoT being ported to run natively under Linux, especially if it literally would only take about 5 minutes worth of extra effort to support.
But if for some strange reason they'd have to do some major revision to the baseline to get it to work then there should be absolutely NO extra effort to get that working by launch day. I know saying that will piss off the 5 or 10 people out there who really want a Linux version of CoT. But the very fact that there are so few of those people out there like that makes it totally justifiable that it should NOT be prioritized as a launch day necessity.
Again if it's trivial to do before launch then sure, why not. Otherwise it can easily wait.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
Well that's what I'm wondering. What kind of extra time/cost is it taking? Is the person(s) working on this not better used on the main windows client? I just feel like, what is the point in this Linux thing?
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
I'm sure the handful of Linux diehards would be happy to tell us why it's important... at least to them. ;)
Theoretically if they design this game "correctly" it should be relatively trivial to implement a native Linux version of it. Of course even if that happens MWM would be responsible for the ongoing support of that unique baseline which effectively means more work for them in the long run overall.
Still it wouldn't be that big a deal if all goes well. But if for some reason they didn't account for smooth portability of the code then trying to deal with a native Linux baseline might prove to be far more troublesome than it's actually worth.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I can't get to the kickstarter page from my work computer (I'm always puzzled by what sites are allowed and what sites are not) but wasn't a Linux port one of the achieved stretch goals or was that just a Mac version?
If it was then, I suppose, they need to work on it whether it's trivial or not.
"I don't think you understand the gravity of your situation."
I believe it was just a Mac version for the stretch goal, but if a Linux port doesn't take much effort - go for it.
This is what they achieved in their stretch goals:
$350,000: Android port of the Avatar Builder
$400,000: iOS port of the Avatar Builder
$450,000: MacOS version of the game at launch
$500,000: Kirby Krackle aura, Swinging, Acrobatic Leaping, Sky Surfing travel powers with several mount options, CueZac Boombox and a few other emotes
$550,000: 4 Distinct Wings sets with their own animation cycles, textures and an initial set of auras. 2 more cape styles and increase the number of cape textures.
$600,000: 5 primary power sets per classification
$650,000: 2 new costume sets, and an additional zone.
So all we know that the game WILL have is what is listed above. Anything else is an extra bonus in my book.
Something to keep in mind is that the Kickstarter occurred before a couple of things happened:
[list=1][*]They switched from Unreal Engine 3 to 4.
[*]SteamOS was released.[/list]
Regarding UE4, [url=https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/unreal-engine-4-and-linux]Linux is supported as a first-class platform.[/url] And there's every indication that Unreal wants CoT to showcase as much UE4 stuff as possible. So Linux support could well have moved from "No time" to "Wow, that wasn't hard" or even "Oh, hey, it's just a rebuild". It's hard to tell, but the point is that it isn't a start-from-scratch project, or a massive effort to beat Wine into submission.
Less important but still significant, [url=http://store.steampowered.com/steamos/]SteamOS[/url] just might happen to be viable. And I'll bet Unreal wants their clients to be ready to go.
So prospects are looking much better than during the Kickstarter.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Mac was already native to Unreal, even Unreal 3, so it was an easy call. Linux was not so much - we had every intention of trying but it wasn't a priority and we couldn't predict the effort involved. But there was only one way to find out, and Nate had reason to believe getting Unreal running in Linux would make things easier for him recently (I'm not clear on the details there, just personal workflow issues I think), so he decided to give it a shot and see how it went. Seems to be going surprisingly well so far, thus the experiment continues.
It would be nice if you guys assumed, for once, that if we're doing something, it's because it turned out NOT to be a project killing sinkhole of time...a little faith here? We're not out to make this any harder for ourselves than it already is.
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
I'm more than willing to give the folks at MWM the benefit of the doubt that you guys will not be doing anything related to CoT that's a full 100% "project killing sinkhole of time".
But anytime I personally offer suggestions about what your "priorities" ought to be please be aware it's mainly based on my decades worth of professional software engineering experience. I'm not going to imply I know exactly what you guys should or shouldn't do in all cases. But when specifically talking about something like implementing a native Linux port of CoT the situation becomes a simple matter of considering the overall time versus benefit potential.
While it's true that a native Linux version of CoT might help with some of your in-house development work and would likely be appreciated by a small handful of your customers you naturally have to be aware that a very large percentage of your playerbase will NEVER use or directly benefit from a Linux version of the game at all. As responsible Devs you must realize this and must be willing to weigh this reality against what would be best for the game as a whole. Even when Lin Chiao Feng suggested that SteamOS might play a role related to CoT it was mentioned in terms that it MIGHT be important in the FUTURE, not as something that would be a necessity for this game's beta testing or launch day.
So while I won't automatically assume that spending too much effort on side-projects like this are a complete 100% waste of your time I will never-the-less be motivated to offer reasonable feedback in situations where there's a very legitimate question as to whether a specific goal/feature is truly worth prioritizing for launch day or not.
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
LOL where's the fun in that? Everyone here's so bored and in the dark that micromanagement starts looking like fun.
Please try not to let it get to you. Like you, we're all impatient to play the game. ^_^
Though it would help if we stopped assuming that development is just like it was two decades ago, when everyone and their dog seemed to be inventing platform-abstraction toolkits badly, natch.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
As I said in an earlier post if it really would only take a "5 minute recompile" to generate a native Linux version of CoT because UE4 will now magically allow for that then by all means let it happen. I'm simply saying if it's not going to be that trivial then MWM needs to weigh the pros and cons of going ahead with it fairly seriously. It's not like the world would end if we didn't get a "native Linux version of CoT" until 3 or 6 months after launch. Just saying...
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
True enough. People are speculating about the Nexon - NCSoft thing, with regards to bringing CoH back, with nothing more than the knowledge of "I liked CoH" to their name. Why wouldn't people presume to educate MWM about the cost-benefit ratio of a Linux port?
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Nate helped make the original Gen-Too Kernel. He prefers to work in a Linux environment. As such we're very well equipped to try to make it work on Linux but of course if it proves to take a lot of adjustments it is a low priority for launch. This is not all or nothing people: because we're trying it now doesn't mean we won't say 'well this has gotten rocky, maybe in a year' later.
[center]--------------------------[/center]
[center][color=#ff0000]Interior Map Lead and UI Designer[/color][/center]
As I'm not a programmer, can you explain what the benefits are in Nate working in Linux while everyone else works on a different platform? Why doesn't everyone do the same thing?
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
You told me off for assuming things that you had never directly said.
Its a personal preference thing. For the vast majority of personal workflows, if you stick to a platform that you know, you are *generally* more productive working on that platform rather than having to learn the ins and outs of a system on a platform that you don't know.
Hell, chuck me in front of a Mac, and I would be there hunting and pecking the options trying to get things setup to how I like them.
Think of it as playing CoX with a layout that was different to how you were used to (not just visual, but also different keybinds).
You wouldn't be able to play the game as well. Sure you could play the game, but you could find yourself fighting more against the layout than the acutal bad guys in the game.
Same situation applies here in terms of the workflow.
So are things cross compatible? if a problem gets solved in Linux, is it just a case of uploading to the shared server and everything works properly? or would you have to code twice?
Currently trapped inside the Speed Force...
Pretty sure it depends on the issue. It would have to be an issue that deals with the OS running it. Anything else is most likely game related, which wouldn't make a difference which OS it is on.
The Carnival of Light in the Phoenix Rising
"We never lose our demons, we only learn to live above them." - The Ancient One
Avatar by lilshironeko
Pretty much this.
Multi platform game engines are *designed* to remove the issues that might arise on specific platforms, and for the most part... they work. Just sometimes, you end up with something that *Doesn't* work out quite right.
Bear in mind that the program you install on your PC isn't the entire game. There's also a lot of server-side code that has to run, and Linux is a very popular platform for servers. So there's plenty of work for a Linux-primary developer to do.
(Full disclosure: I use Gentoo as well. And it's named after the [url=http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/birds/gentoo-penguin/]gentoo penguin[/url], and not spelled Gen-Too as in "generation two".)
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Do keep in mind, we need Linux support for the servers regardless. Both Windows and Mac servers are expensive to operate by comparison to Linux. That Linux also supports a client is due in part to our design, where the client can also act as a basic server.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
The client acting as a basic server: is this going to allow private servers for, say, LAN parties?
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
[url=http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BenjaminJustice/20151029/257691/How_to_Develop_for_CrossPlatform.php]Relevant[/url].
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Yes, we even had an update discussing just that ages ago.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
I find this easy to believe! Which also means, I'm one of those who never assumes you folks are making things harder on yourselves. I always assume you're looking for the most efficient ways to do things well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My author page at Amazon: https://amzn.to/2MPvkRX
My novelty shirts: https://amzn.to/31Sld32
As I recall from what was being said not only would this allow for "private player servers" but this would also provide the ultimate "Plan B" in case the public servers ever had to be taken permanently offline for any reason.
Basically if MWM was ever forced to stop updating/maintaining CoT we as players could always run our own private servers which means that once launched this game could technically never be shutdown like CoH was. :)
CoH player from April 25, 2004 to November 30, 2012
[IMG=400x225]https://i.imgur.com/NHUthWM.jpeg[/IMG]
I know there might be Cash Shop issues (just one of the predominant issues).. if instead of relying on one of the Player running their Game Instance as a Server.. if instead, we could run the same Linux Server daemons also, as MWM is.. but a crippled version as far as Cash Shop transactions are concerned.
It might not seem very important, but I have to think ahead, as I'm predicting that a MWM Server might not be able to always handle the needs of an influx of new players at the most critical times. If MWM have a version of the Linux Servers that exclude the Cash Shop store and which still points to the MWM Cash Shop Servers / Cash Shop Web Services / whatever.. still, players could run those Linux Servers at those player influx Lulls, and MWM could manage a web page that lists these player run CoT Linux servers, if there ever comes a time for additional, or alternate ways to access the game.
Anything which happens on a private server, stays on a private server. That means any unlocks,badges, xp, would not reflect in the main world.
Technical Director
Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider
Hmmm... what if the Player Progression data was divorced and existed in a separate DB/Table(s)?
So then a player can hop from any 3rd party hosted Linux Server(s), but in the Settings, the player can leave the Player Progression Server/Service pointing to the Same Server always... if they want that.
So, 3rd parties can host sessions, but Player Progression data is always pulled from one server, in this case.. the MWM Servers / Sevice's.
Just looking for a way to unburden the MWM One Server (even if it's All Mighty) by Sharing the Rest of the load (even if its additional Shard's / Instance's / etc.. only)
Way too high abuse potential to make it worth it imo.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5BTpr5W.png[/img]
What if players are only presented with a populated list to choose from?
And if they choose a world instance that is Not MWM's, that sponsor running/paying for an additional Linux Server also shows their Ads and the like... ahhh.. a small banner (or two) when a loading screen pops up, top or Bottom, but i think Left or Right might work too.. depending on the Sponsors needs.
Well, the Sponsor might also ask MWM to create a Mission Arc that drives their point across Also.. soo... why not! ;)
MWM is NASCAR! ;D Hehehehehehhehe. ;D
Come Sponsor, get your Pony Today! ;)
As long as MWM doesnt show Favoritism to one sponsor, or the public's perception might change for MWM as being sellouts. So, get as close to the edge without tipping over into the shark infested waters. ;)
And the sponsors who wont (90%) say No to Sponsoring an Linux Server instance and their Logo plastered from Billboards, to their Headquarters Building, to Holiday events they are Features as supposedly Sponsoring, are the ones that are trying to push their name to Middle America, and that have done so across the world.
Hell, its possible they might have more than one Linux Server Instance for a different products as well. ;D
MWM can Maintain the servers themselves, if they are worried about abuse, but always make it clear that the servers Are Owned by the Sponsors, so any Ad's or the like Can't be changed by MWM.
And the Duration doesnt matter because the Player Progress data isnt tied to any world instance. :D
ROFLMAO! The future of free.
In any case, all you were talking about, Izzy, would be handled by a character copy tool. MWM would probably only allow character copies in the same circumstances as CoX, namely, from live server(s) to the test server, and no copies from outside to either, while possibly allowing copies out.
If the character copy involves an intermediate file, then MWM (nor anyone else) never has to deal with the destination server directly. The export and import operations can be handled separately, at different times, and involving only one server at a time.
So there's no need for sponsors; they can just fire up their own servers, and brand away.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Lin,
You didnt read most of the previous posts?
A little more like this:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/wBHo3n5.png[/img]
I think the Devs were toying with the idea of using the file system instead of a SQL Server,
so a SQLite (or flat) file can store Player Progress data in a folder like:
/path/to/progress/data/for/player/102319192
just as an example.
Yes, i got the gist of it but saw it as a DOA proposal, so I tried to pull it in a direction a bit more acceptable. I'm not assuming that MWM can just wish hardware and staff into existence as needed to support sponsored servers, and further I assume they don't want to deal with the headaches caused by trying to keep character balance between all these extra servers. Which is implicit given the shared storage. And the shared storage is going to be slower than local server storage, impacting performance, unless it's all on one site.
See those lines from the "another instance" nodes to the PDWS nodes? Those are attack vectors for cheaters.
I understand the "advantages" of flat files over databases, and I don't think they count for much here. Having a character interchange file format lets otherwise unrelated servers move characters between them, and they can set whatever policy they want on said moves.
I'm just not buying the live-shared-data concept. It benefits a few and causes headaches for many. People spinning up servers of their own, with whatever level of character copy support they want, I can believe. MWM has to control its own servers, and doesn't need to worry about player backlash when Pepsico demands that their server give large combat bonuses or progression bonuses to characters wearing their ads or else they'll pull their funding and the server will have to go down. Or whatever.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Another big problem would be the handling of simultaneous logins from the same account on different servers. This means it's not just an issue of syncing character data between the servers and central storage but they also need constant syncing of actively logged in accounts between all servers.
Thinking more about this I just don't see that MWM would need such an "unburdening" in the long run, maybe at launch but then I don't think any company would see this as an efficient vector for ads. Depending on how restrictive MWM would be with the ads potential then this could become more of an ad for CoT than it would be for the company running a "sponsored server".
Account handling generally gets its own server and/or database to prevent that kind of problem, but yes, it would have to be under control of and closely linked with the game servers.
Only if you're demanding that you have the ability to log out of one server and immediately log in to anther server without breaking stride, preserving buffs and cooldowns and the like. I don't think such a requirement would be missed if struck.
Yep.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
MWM could Host the Server Instances themselves, Dedicated or Virtual server instances.. Maybe!?
Ahhh... you're implying that it will work a little like a Web Hosting provider that has Bash/Shell access?
Nah.. its probably just a web based Control Panel type of front end, for the most part. :)
"...keep(ing) character balance between all these extra servers. ...given the shared storage."
What do you mean by.. Balanced Storage-Wise?
I'm presuming you're under the impression that the dedicated Player Progress Web Service (or custom made daemon, FastCGI, etc.. or whichever approach used) will be too slow. Some form of Caching will be in place as well. Well, i'll admit.. caching might be overkill, as the Player Progress data will need to be updated when the player Levels Up, Picks Ups: Augments or other storage relater trinkets.
But, it wont be Saved/Sent immediately to the Web Service. All of the data thats considered to be needed to start or rather Resume a Session would be saved at milestone times. Not each time a Foe is defeated and players XP is gained. If the game crashes, who cares if some XP is lost. I'll admit, there might be times that milestones dont come as fast, so the game logic can see if 5 minutes have passed, but no milestones were hit, then it can Save/Send the current Player Progress data with the XP, Inventory, etc... if there was any change. Yes, Logging Off would do the same thing. ;)
I agree, to a certain extent. You're forgetting that not only would this framework allow MWM to pull in new players, but it would future proof the longevity of the game if MWM finds its no longer able to manage/maintain the servers. So with very little tweaking on the Code run on the servers, The CoT Player Community can crowdfund a server.
Any additional servers instances ( instances meaning it can run on a separate server or as a virtual instance on the same server, whatever is best ) could be added to the Master Server Instance list.
Each Instance shouldn't require any space for Player Progress data storagewise,
But if a Server instance Does have allot of storage space. just mount the NFS remote folder.
I rather prefer a Dedicated Storage Server with the Player Progress Web Service (or FastCGI, or daemon, etc.. ) using them.
Ohhh, what if MWM had a splash screen or the Launcher also tailored to those Big Sponsors? ;)
To have the Big Sponsors breathe a sigh of relief for spending an additional one time fee for Branding the Launcher with their theme, MWM would have to sweeten the pot by also Showing the sponsors Instance at the very top of the list, or even just show their instance at the top, with a Countdown timer that would use the 1st entry as their instance... but show a button at the side or below the Instances list "show additional servers", and if the players press a key or click anywhere, it would stop the Automatic Countdown timer... :)
This might be a good and much cheaper means for some companies to stay seemingly competitive (through the holidays, and for certain product launches spanning a few months, etc)... like say a few LEGO competitors, Fisher Price, Matel, etc tec etc... as a marketing ploy.. since they will be led to believe kids will also be playing this game. Oh wait, they Actually Will! ;D
If and when the Sponsors stop supporting an instance, kids coming back for more will see that the Launcher Branding by the sponsor disappear and replaced with the CoT one... and the Server Instance list shows in full now (no Auto Countdown timer). etc..
I'm hungry. Getting lightheaded. BRB. :<
Personally that would most likely make me stop playing CoT since it would feel like MWM is more concerned with "selling out" to the companies than making a compelling game that players would like to pay for.
The big thing that I still haven't seen addressed here is what advantage would we players get for playing on such an instance. I mean, seeing ads (probably highly immersion breaking ones at that) for RL products would not be an advantage in many peoples eyes.
Same advantage that HULU gets for being able to Air shows from the Big Networks.
HULU is a SellOut? Stop thinking of all games as an exercise of a way to prove superiority of any persons dexterity, and more of an Entertainment vehicle (more The Sims, less HALO). Small companies HAVE TO think up ways to generate revenue. And Video TV Spots between missions should be avoided (Mobile games have it tough). Static or even animated Gif type of banner ads, if placed to the sides.., is better or less frowned upon by most Methinks. :)
Since their primary purpose (as of now) is to show content [b]from other producers[/b] would not make them a sell-out.
Another major point is that HULU (and similar) are built around static content consumption while games (especially primarily multiplayer ones) are active content consumption which makes them so different that I think trying draw a parallel between would be a borderline false equivalence fallacy.
The sell-out part would be for shoving it in my face, both for the prominent placement on the launcher and for essentially hiding the normal servers.
I didn't think of all games as just an exercise to prove superiority but if I'm going to have something very potentially immersion breaking, like ads for products that don't actually exists in that world according to lore, then I expect that there would some form of compensation or I would just go to the MWM ones. To me, and I guess most players, if something is immersion breaking then its value as an entertainment vehicle is lowered, potentially to zero.
Right, so making content that most of us a happy with paying for wouldn't be anywhere near enough?
The thing is that I just don't see any significant RoI (or any at all) for the companies that do "buy" one of these sponsored servers since we can still choose to play on MWM's ones. They will not continue to sponsor servers if almost no one is playing on them.
A significant problem would be what to do when more than one would like to do this during the same time frame, a.k.a the holidays as you said. MWM would either have get a rotation going or pick a favorite for branding the launcher.
Then we get into the issue that these servers has to be payed for, by at least 110%, by the company sponsoring them. All the prep needed, being able to just drop in ads in the game world, "branding" the launcher, making a free-standing character storage system and so on would have a pretty high initial dev cost with no guaranty to ever recoup that cost through the means it was designed for.
Less yes, but still very likely frowned upon.
You still haven't addressed the fundamental question (and I admit I might have phrased it wrong before).
Why should we, as players collectively, choose a "sponsored server" when we still have full access to the original ones? That is what incentives will we be given to play on those servers, the threat of CoT closing down if we don't?
Personally I rather pay directly for content than getting it through ad supported means.
On a side note: I think it's quite funny how a suggestion/thought that started out as "wouldn't it be good if we could unburden the MWM servers" has essentially developed into "they have to get revenue somehow".
In a nutshell, this.
If I want commercials that I can't avoid I'll go watch TV. Which is probably what I'll be doing, rather than playing CoT, if MWM started rolling out commercials at me. Losing customers is not an efficient way to generate revenue.
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Which do you choose?
- MWM Server instance(s) on the East Coast. for a number of nights now this week.. are alternating from Red to Orangy Yellow status every night. When you're on a mission and perform the finishing kill on a foe, the Foe is defeated, but the foe actually appears a second later on the floor and was actually defeated by another team mate that's moved on to the next foe.. you playing through the constant lag the whole time.
- Matel Server instance in Texas, setup and maintained by MWM on behalf of Matel. in middle america. green status mostly throughout the day, except for the late afternoon around 4 PM to 8 PM during the weekdays, when it turns to a Yellow. The rest of the night, green. Close to no noticeable lag at all.
What are we really paying for.. in a MMO?
Is it The Content? How much is it Content, and its worth?
Is it Server Storage, Machine Resource usage? Bandwidth? How Much are Resources worth?
I bet I'll be surprised at the percentage Content wins out over Resources. ;)
Launcher branding done for Matel would only show up to those kids that download the Launcher from a link on their website. Adults that go to the MWM CoT website download the launcher that looks ordinary. No Matel Launcher branding. Think of it like Alternate Sleeve covers for the DVD inside.
Immersion breaking?
Well, that's up to Matel, or other. MWM will have the option to use Avatar Creator actors in poses that Matel marketing is ok with.
Any G.I. Joe action figures or the like, that have a Shoulder Rocket, might or might not be featured in the themed Launcher or other marketing materials, since CoT might not have that accessory yet for kids to buy, or get FREE if it was commissioned by Matel for inclusion (to the Cash Shop), for the promotional period.
Just going from this image: Who is responsible for the support here. And how how quickly/easily would support be delayed due to it potentially being two (or more) separate teams that would have to communicate various things.
Bugs: SHould always go to the developers.
General support (ie tech issues/problems with the game server): Some of those are easily dealt with the server owners... others might be due to MWM bugs.. others could be general help...
Welcome to multiple different channels that you might have to use to get your issues resolved.
And how about server moderation/petitions for names/conduct? Is that an MWM issue or a Server owner issue?
Depends, is the reason why the Texas one being so lightly loaded that it's a ghost town?
If I'm completely new I would most likely check the one with the "best" load and latency conditions but after a while I would more likely gravitate to ones with more players. But what makes you think that these sponsored server would almost always have less load and/or latency than the MWM's ones?
However, I wouldn't say that load/latency alone would be a good way to incentivice players to play on a specific server.
Not sure why you bring this up but I would say the vast majority are paying for the experience, which is much closer to content.
You initially made it sounds like it would be an all-or-nothing deal, but if I had to expressively download it then I wouldn't really care on this specific point alone.
Wait, are you saying that Matel (or other sponsor) would be deciding what is and isn't immersion breaking? And how the heck are specific Avatars in specific poses part of immersion in general?
So.... these commissioned items would only be available/usable on these sponsored servers? If not then I don't see any incentive here for using a sponsored server.
Honestly, the more you talk about this the more ridiculous the whole concept sounds in my head.
Separating out character storage from game servers, creating a pretty significant attack vector.
Having to create a system so only "authorized" sponsored servers are presented.
Having to create a framework for branding the launcher.
In-game ads that might be highly immersion breaking since they don't relate to any products existing in that universe.
Biggest incentive presented so far is load/latency.
Possibility of over staffing the hardware maintenance group (and maybe also extra server space and actual hardware) when not enough sponsors are present, draining finances.
Possibility of giving the wrong impression, f.i G.I Joe branding but not being able to "play G.I Joe", just a look-alike in a completely different setting.
Possibility of having exclusive content per server?
If MWM really need these sponsors to financially stay afloat then they could put pretty big demands on in what direction MWM takes the game.
Maybe to You cosmetic changes might not sway you to play a specific instance, but for kids, it just might!
And Matel or the like, will be banking on it. ;D
I cant speak for all players, but what could break immersion is when I see a real life photo (not done in 3D). If its done in 3D, its much less immersion breaking for me. Marketing Doesn't Have to use the Avatar Builder for People in the Ads, but it would then be even less immersion breaking for me, if they did.
IMVU banner ads I noticed don't really bother me so much. I see them and think, "That look decent." But then I move along. Its possible Other players wont resonate a sense of resentment either, and also take it passively, make up an excuse, and say: "Well, the Ad doesn't look so bad. The game is very good and it seems these Ads are making it possible for Free Players like myself to keep playing for free still. I'm sorta Ok with it!"
So its possible to Not Instill a sense of resentment or betrayal by MWM because of ads. I just don't know the guidelines to stick with for ad creation/content matter where the CoT community is concerned. Maybe through trial and error on a select demographic of younger participants? Even if you were a Subscriber, if you were on a Sponsored World Instance, the sponsors Ads would still need to be shown. :/ Hmmm... Maybe they don't have to. Have to sit on this some more. :P
It should be possible. Maybe even have it limited to ads to products that have Some Link or presumed relation to fun/games. So, no vacuum cleaner ads. Unless you can get one for your Base too. ;) They would have to advertise it as a Ingame Cash Shop item, all the while, its just done to promote the real life product.
I'm assuming CoT wont have players subscribers in the millions for a long long time to come. You might be assuming they can keep going like this on Non-Paid Volunteers forever, but I'm praying MWM can get vet developers that have worked in the industry for a number of years. I'm hard pressed to think thats gonna happen if things stay this way down the line. I could be wrong, and I'm not a business genius, or else I would be rolling in the dough by now. Its all conjecture on my part. ;)
One thing I would be worried about is if a "company sponsored" server has content that is different or exclusive to that server and not the MWM server. You then start leading into the realms of "You can have this or this... but not both at the same time". And cue similar issues if that company decides to *stop* running/paying for that server.
What happens to the players on those servers?
Side note: What happens to the players if MWM has any tech issues? Do they lose the ability to play their characters on the 3rd party servers as well? How do box sales work? Remember, that CoT will have a box price, so this means that getting a "branded" version of the client/download would mean that at some point you would have to interact with MWM. So why go via a 3rd party to play on their server when the only route to purchase it is via MWM?
And how about subscriptions? How will they be managed? Are you paying for the *server* that you are playing on or for your account to only work with CoT servers?
Most likely some will but I seriously doubt it will be enough to make it worthwhile for the sponsor considering the very likely disconnect between the branding and what they get in-game. As I said, having it branded one way but not being able to actually play in that setting may be a bigger turn-off than the exclusive costumes are a turn-on.
But the thing with ads is that the costs for having them is less than the additional sales you get from them. Having them this unobtrusive I seriously doubt that they will be financially viable, especially considering that it's not just the ads that they pay for but everything around them like the server, hosting space, any extra personnel needed and of course some profit to MWM.
I'm not assuming that they'll be able to get by on no-paid volunteers forever, I'm assuming they'll make a game that a large enough part of the community is willing to pay for sothat they at least can stay afloat.
The only way I see this working out in advantage for MWM is if CoT gets so good and famous that these companies reach out to MWM to be featured. [b]Not[/b] sponsored, featured.
If MWM reach to other companies for sponsoring then those companies will hold MWM over a barrel and demand things that are in their best interest, not MWMs. Since, honestly speaking, why should they keep another company afloat if they don't get any direct benefit from it.
Honestly Izzy, you seem to only be looking at this from MWM's position but how would you actually sell this the upper management at the likes of Coca-Cola, Matel and similar.
- My ALT's now live In The CLOUD? What about bying Character Slots for Different servers?
Yes. You're ALT's are now all Care Bears! ;D Valiance Online, and Heroes and Villains, need a way to export / import your toons costumes. Was that scrapped? never mind then! ;) Well, its in the CLOUD if it ever happens down the line. ;)
Bying character slots is still there, but there's just one Main Server. So no Character slots for different instances. PvE or PvP.
- Do UGC Story Arcs that MWM create (one time fee), or the Sponsor create with the Mission Builder, only reside on the sponsors instance?
No / Maybe, up to the Sponsor. User created UGC Missions can be removed without warning. The Sponsors can decide to leave any UGC created missions if they so choose, which are accessible to all players on any Instance, if the Sponsor decides they want that.
- What happens to cosmetic/non-cosmetic Cash Shop items that the Sponsor commissioned MWM to create/sell, say.. its sticker on a T-Shirt, after time runs out on the contracted period?
Easy answer, if the Sponsor wants, they can leave the T-Shirt with their logo in the cash shop, make it FREE even, if its isnt already. Or, delete it. MWM can try to get the rights to the 3D Mesh of the items, be allowed to use them, as long as the 2D textures are different enough to pass as non-infringing. So.. if the Sponsor does remove its T-Shirt (or any other items), you still retain it, but the textures are now using the Default ones MWM put into place.
If MWM cant get the sponsor to agree to use the 3D Mesh with different texture(s), then those Cash Shop items will be Flagged with some warning label. Use at your own risk! ;D Maybe future Sponsors will try to avoid that warning label showing up next to their item(s) in the Cash Shop, even if its FREE. :)
- Sponsor players trying to circumvent the Box Price?
That's a tricky one. Without really mulling this one over, I would say that Sponsors would have to pre-purchase from MWM for a bulk amount, and any CoT accounts created through the Sponsors that go over the allotted player count, are charged to the Sponsor as overages fees. MWM having plans Sponsors can choose: from 2 months, to 6 months, to 1 year.
MWM wont give plans lasting less than 2 months.
Since the Sponsors are buying in bulk, a 1/3 discount might apply, maybe less, all the depends on the billing setup. Could be included as part of the base price to Setup new servers racks and such, 2D/3D Artist fees, Dev Fees, etc.. Maybe even a Maintenance charge. :)
After the time expires all Sponsor created player accounts revert back to Freemium state, maybe a short acclimation span can be tacked on if they choose to transfer to a MWM Central account. Give a small perk to get them to stay in the game. Since the beauty of this system is, MWM is using the Sponsors Money / Brand Name / Marketing or other Resources.. to funnel in would be players that we can possibly retain for years to come. ;D
- Umm... arent you worried that a big Sponsor might see how good this scheme is and want to buy MWM out?
:/ Shhhhhhh!
;D
Izzy, you seem to have a lot of faith in (or even assuming) that CoT will become so big that sponsors will come here asking to be "included" (or featured).
If MWM really gets to the point where they need to "hunt" for external financing to stay afloat then MWM won't have any bargaining power to speak of and would have to make major concessions to get any deal to speak of. Such concessions that would most likely ruin the game as a whole. I already see these kinds of concessions in your answers, in that the Sponsor decides a hell of a lot things in regards to continued availability including the payed-for content.
Do you really think that MWM and the sponsor system would survive when it gets out that payed-for content, even something as simple as a "t-shirt badge", can be yanked at a moments notice with no form of compensation at all? Unless of course that it's explicitly stated during purchase that it will only be usable during a limited time.
Getting Famous Enough?
That's not needed. Let's pretend there's a Non-DC or Marvel cinematic movie coming out in a year and 6+ months, for say: Kick Ass #, Sin City #, Men In Black #, Hellboy #, etc...
They really would love the idea of having a Game ready to ship with, or a number of weeks before, the release of their movie debuting in theaters, but the cost/time isn't feasible. MWM could approach those Producers and pitch the Branding idea, making the Instance seem like a separate game, a single Mission or two can look close to a scene from the movie using the Mission/Base Builder.. might not have to look exactly as the movie. A small Sponsor Themed button appears in the UI that players can click on to try out the Sponsor UGC created/contracted missions. MWM would explain to the sponsor that the players wont have to stop playing there, players can experience more of the world that's already in place, selling it as a different area that can be explored outside of the movie world, adding to their players fun more.. like going to an amusement park, you get to try the Other rides as well. And NEVER LEAVE! >;D
MWM / CoT is an unknown, and might be like that for years even, to allot of comic book fans.
Geting potential players to experience the Sponsor Branded version, even if its for a set period, is great.
If and When MWM converts Sponsored players to a Central MWM account, those players wont Care if the Sponsored logo is no longer available, as long as they can keep going in this great utopia that is CoT.
You need to think outside the box more. Take a page from some of the innovative entrepreneurs. :]
Be a YAY man.. not Nay Man. ;)
Izzy, you're so far outside the box that I nicked the box a while a go and you still haven't noticed. :P
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
So, you're saying... "Go Big, or Go Home!" ?
Nay, sounds more like your saying: "Earth is Flat! Stop trying to convince everyone the Earth might be Round! Do things like the rest of us." :/
No, I'm saying get back here, we can't see where you are any more. Seriously, I'm having a really hard time parsing the context of post #49.
[i]Has anyone seen my mind? It was right here...[/i]
Ummm.. ok. o.O *looks confused*
Allow my meager attempt to explain:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2FPPS9IgAEwWgw.png[/img]
- - - - -
[font=Pristina][size=18][b]Hail Beard![/b][/size][/font]
Support [url=http://cityoftitans.com/comment/52149#comment-52149]trap clowns[/url] for CoT!
Please put down the rose colored glasses.
I've never heard of an amusement park that has a secluded section with only one or two rides that are branded completely different from the rest, with it's own entrance fee (if any). When I go to one I have access to the full park as is.
Do you really think that such companies will be perfectly happy with essentially saying "try these two movie tie-in mission, then go and play something completely different". What that is doing is asking them to promote CoT more than their own content from that specific angle. Considering the costs to the sponsor (hardware, hosting space, personnel and time to make content) they would want an entire game centered around the movie, not just a few missions. It's much more likely that it would play out that MWM would have to pay for everything and an extra licensing fee to be able to use the "branded content".
Considering that studios often pay very large sums of money (up into the millions) to the content producers for just the right to make a game based on the next "big move" then I don't see why those content producers would suddenly see this as more viable option, especially from a financial point.
For MWM to be able to pitch in the same way as other studios do then they would have to be able to easily rework the entire game, including the open world.
Considering the high emphasis on aesthetics then I bet you a significant amount of players will care about said sponsored content, especially if it's part of their costume.
Thinking outside the box is all well and good, but make sure that you don't loose sight of the box itself since anything successful has to be grounded in reality. But just out of curiosity, can you point me to some of those successful entrepreneurs that didn't fill an existing hole in the market.
I do not for one second believe this will be viable due to the high cost to the sponsor compared to the potential revenue gain. Heck, just the cost to MWM to make a system for this to be possible would most likely be cost prohibitive.
I think we have veered enough off the original topic of the thread....
Do you mean on Freemium Rides... where Premium Pass users get to cut in front of everyone that didnt buy a Premium Pass? I could be wrong, but its not like the Ride Ticketer counts to make sure only 50% of the Premium Pass users only get through, leaving 50% room for the Freemium users. I kinda doubt thats what they do. But I dont know. Freemium gets on Only If there's extra space on the next run?!? Whatever. :/
I admit that a movie studio wouldn't be happy with a 2 Mission Arc, IF you were Licensing the Rights to make a full blown game. But, MWM isnt in that business. MWM Services would work more like a marketing vehicle to Promote the Movie. Released a few weeks Before the Premier hits theaters, and slightly after.. 'till its no longer showing. For that, I doubt you need to or Want to create a Full Story Arc that reflects the Movie. Studies might want to treat the Sandbox Instance as a Teaser, with a cliffhanger Adversary / Antagonist / ... a Boss at the end.. with a Movie Poster, with the Movies Soundtrack playing. Might or Might not even need to Defeat him/her/them.
Think of this as an Interactive Movie Trailer... (i know, a leap), and Movie Trailers are produced by 3rd parties, 99% of the time.
And they NEVER had to Reserve The Rights!!
I might have made the mistake listing Blockbusters, such as Hellboy and others, since there are game studios that will want to Reserve The Rights for a full game. Could try a lesser known property, that kids might like.. Maleficent, Hero 6, Inside Out, Frozen.. Well, those might be considered blockbusters too, and could have a full game in the works, but some might not. You won't know 'till you approach the movie studio. :P (if a full game is in the works, it wouldn't make sense to have yet another promotional/teaser game as well)
Loosing Sponsor Commissioned Costume Pieces , I believe, would be Acceptable, for the MAJORITY of the players! Small children would complain, and the next day Forget all about it as they moved on to the next colorfull thing that's of interest. Adults not understanding or Not Wanting to Understand, is rare, as we get MWM Never Has or Will Reserve such Rights. Yes, its Sandboxing. Existing MWM players, not on the Sponsored Instance, `Might` Never even See any of the Costume Pieces, Ever! Unless they create an Account through the Sponsors portal, and play on their Instance.
Thinking outside the box is something I try to do. Sometimes its really out there, I will admit. I rather think of it as being MAcGyver in a way. Filling Industry Wholes? Nah, you'll be hard pressed to find any significant wholes nowadays. You need a Shovel and create your own. Look at what the mobile phone has become. Soon enough you're Whole Life will live on the phone, or media device like that. Ohh I still haven't seen the Steve Jobs movie. :/ Thanks for the reminder. :)
No, MWM have had the good notion of bringing UGC Tools for much easier Content Creation all the while. Cost Prohibitive? No, any additional 2D/3D art for models, the cost would be billed to the Sponsors, and MWM could get it done in-house or contract it out. Its possible MWM or other Writers might find this work even more gratifying. Maybe! ;)
Developers might not even have to do anything later on, once a number of requested Fatures have been added to the UGC tools, which would have been Eventually added via Player request, but now MWM is doing it while the Sponsor is infusing money to add it sooner.
Gangrel,
Yep. Just a `tad` off topic. My bad. :<
I could create a new thread. ;D
Even I don't know if this is viable yet. Still, kinda interesting. (Shh.. Dont tell the rest!)
I might have been using Sponsored instead of Featured too, Shhh! ;)