On the run up to launch, do a publicity drive by linking your costume generator to a 3-d printing service (shapeways, for instance) to allow people to 3-d print their toons into little statues/miniatures.
Although 3d printers, now via amazon, are starting to print toons from games (Halo is a good example), I've yet to see anyone link 3d printing with individualized / customized characters like CoT will offer.
This would allow people to get a hard copy of their toon, MWM to showcase another instance of pushing boundaries both with the costume generator and player interaction, and attract a wider range of publicists to cover the launch.
just a thought.
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Wow! I don't know what else to say.
My home job is making models for 3d printing. I love the idea of this but...
There are a few things that might need to be considered for this type of launch promo....
First, a model that is made for games is seldom designed in a way that can be 3d printed. Basically all the tricks that 3d artists use to make a model appear three dimensional make it impossible to be printed. Flat planes with high rex textures and transparency maps (very common in hair), intersecting polygons, bmp maps ect all make it so a model cannot be printed.
Second, it is unlikely that the models will have color. Color printing is still not fully developed to the point where high levels of detail can be expressed in a 3d model.
Third, cost. To produce a model with a moderate level of detail requires either a large print in lesser quality material or a smaller print in a higher quality material. Just as an example, a human model that is 35mm tall will cost between 15-20 bucks American then shipping costs and any duty you may be required to pay. That's for a 35 mm human model in a mid level material that will show the detail level. To make a mini statuette in of 35cm you are looking at thousands of dollars in the same material. Using a lower grade material will lower the cost to 200-500 us. All in all its not cheap to have something printed. If MWM can secure a deal with shapeways (shapeways has done it before) these cost can be brought down a bit but its still not cheap.
Here is an example of a site that does what you suggest....
https://www.heroforge.com/
As you can see, the models require a certain type of design from the outset that is different than what you find with in game models. This site has a deal with shapeways and still the cost is not cheap.
I would love it if this could be done with the game but I think the better option would be if MWM offered the signature heroes of the game in statuette form. This way they would only need to create a single set of models specifically designed for 3d printing instead of trying to make everything able to be printed. And they could keep the cost within a reasonable range.
It would be completely unique, but I'm not sure the technology is "there" just yet. Another ten years and 3D home printers will be as common as inkjets. Maybe five.
But yeah, if it were economically feasible, I'd be signed up on day one!
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These are all good points, and thank you for the informed response. I had thought full color was possible using sandstone as the printing material, was I mistaken about that?
The conversion from 3d computer model to/via CAD for a printing format would take some work, no doubt, and we don't know the type of file or specifics involved with the costume creator (though hopefully we'll know more by year's end). Perhaps we can revisit how difficult it would be to create a 'conversion script' from the costume creator file into a suitable printing format once we have some more information from MWM down the road?
size/detail/cost are definitely a concern, but prices continue to fall and by all accounts the game isn't going to be officially launched for at least another year if not 2. I don't expect prices to crater, but the trendline is favorable in this respect.
Starting with the just the signature heroes might be a good beginning but is unlikely to garner many plaudits for originality or interest/purchases from players. That said, it could be a great way to 'get things started' so the process is understood and gauge interest levels in anticipation of continued price drops and capability expansion without annoying people who want their own toon but can't afford it.
If it's an idea the devs think is useful, perhaps a plan with costs/challenges/time/vendors/etc can be developed by those interested to determine if it's feasible and if not what currently is as well as when it might be an affordable option.
-or-
maybe it's all just a bit too pie in the sky at the moment, which is always a possibility =)
Nope...sandstone does offer full color...the issue with it is in detail level.
A full color sandstone (even plastic is able to be printed in color now) does not have fine detail levels...if you look at this...
https://www.shapeways.com/product/AFYFDHVJC/an-itty-bitty-sad-keanu?li=nav-tab&optionId=3092550
You can see the level of detail. Its passable but hardly good.
To get any degree of detail level in sandstone the model would need to be fairly sizable. Which in turn increases the cost considerably. The link above is for a model that is just 6 1/2 cm tall....and the cost is over 30 bucks.
Basically to get a decent level of detail you need either a large model or a more expensive material for a smaller model.
Sadly its not as simple as a conversion script.
Its hard to explain in a short paragraph how modeling for print is different than modeling for games. If you want I can do it in a pm (will wait till Monday as I am away this weekend). It would be pages if I was to try and do it here.
Best I can doi8n short order is to say that games need shortcuts when modeling and you cant use those shortcuts for 3d printing.
Actually right now prices are starting to rise. This is due to home machine becoming more available. The economics are that we are in that period where the companies that provide printing services are raising prices to combat the loss in sales of home users no longer using those services. Not to mention for these printing providers to stay competitive they need to purchase new printers and service the old ones. I would expect this to continue for at least 2 years before the price drops noticeably.
As an example...a set of models I designed cost me 60 bucks 4 months ago...now it cost 80.....just over a year ago it cost 45.... the price has almost doubled in just over a year.
As I said a fair amount of this cost could be lowered if a specific deal was made with a printing company. The link for heroforge is an example of one of those deals.
I only suggested the signature heroes to offset the extra work involved in making the model specifically for print. Another alternative could be to set up something similar to the way heroforge did it (interchangeable model parts designed for print)
Like I said...I would love it if they could do this and I am not saying they can't. Its just that these things I mentioned need to be taken into consideration.
thanks very much for the cogent response, trevor. solid stuff.
the rise in price is interesting, i hadn't realized the home market was making a that big a dent already. someone awhile back used homemade breadmakers as a good parallel for in-home 3d printers - good product, fun to use, better quality, but a month later the breadmaker is in a cabinet and people are back to buying their bread from the store because it's easier/quicker.
for now, if a dev chimes in we can take things from there, otherwise i can always broach the subject again next year as the game gets closer to reality and the 3d market continues to push forward.
ooglymoogly, this was a great thought. It sounds like a streeeeeeetch goal to say the least. It would be nice if price and complexity came down enough by launch, but even if they didn't this will likely be a cool "first ever" opportunity at some point. I say this is definitely something to keep on the radar. +1
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3D printing of a game character would need some sort of conversion. The character, for instance, is made of a lot of parts that have zero thickness, which looks fine but does not print well.
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Thanks for the idea ooglymoogly. Thanks for the education trevor. I thought that it was easier/ cost effective. Superb idea actually. Maybe a custom 2d poster/ tee-shirt would suffice in the meantime.
These foward-thinking ideas are what bolsters my conviction that CoT will be a winner. Not just this but the whole game. Now I have to educate myself on 3-d printing.
(edited to say that the first step should in fact be securing a deal with a printing service...without that then the rest is pointless)
I think I have been misunderstood.
This is a great idea and can be done with relative ease as long as its understood that certain things will need to be simplified.
First....The entire character creator can't be used. What would need to be done is a few standardized models would need be made (using CoH's concept of female, male and huge would be a good start) then provide a few specific poses for each...most likely based around character classification.... Striker...Gunner ect. Then the most time consuming part of this would be making a specific set of clothes (or more likely modifying exisiting ones) that will fit the models in all poses AND be print ready. This list of clothes will not be remotely as varied as what the CC will offer but should include most of the staples of comic heroes/villains. The hardest part of this step is effectively making everything a solid part (I do this right now with my own models)
Here is an example of a model I made for print (keep in mind the cost is high because to get the details in the small scale I use I need to use the most expensive material)...
https://www.shapeways.com/product/B5KPYUQNV/cheerleader-twins?li=more-from-shop&optionId=56711434
As you can see, these are just over 3 cm tall (foot to top of head) and have a minimum of detail (I am an amateur after all). I would assume the modellers for MWM would be able to produce much higher quality than me.
Second, a simple CC would need to be release (similar to the one that Heroforge has) specifically for 3d printing orders. I am not so skilled in programming so not sure exactly how much effort this would take, but I wouldn't think it to be an insane amount.
Next you would need to set up some sort of deal with a 3d printing company, where the material cost goes down because you are ordering in bulk. I will try and explain this a bit and why it would work... Most 3d printing cost is based off how much room your model uses in the printer as well as how much material you use. If the models are have a preset bounding box (basically a cube that goes around the entire model) then the models can always be arranged in the printer to maximum efficiency. This will reduce the cost overall as it will be understood that this printer will be used to maximum volume. That's the best I can do without explaining a ton more on 3d printing.
Finally this could be used as a source of external income for MWM and could be expanded upon throughout CoT's life. Eventually it could be possible for MwM to provide all CC options in printing which will make those that want....able to have a statuette of their characters.
The biggest factors of this would be what material type they want to use.....as was said, sandstone (and even some plastics) can be printed in color but it means the model has to be fairly sizable to look good and color printing tends to be more pricey. If you eliminate the need for color and print in a single color then the model can be printed slightly smaller.... and still keep that detail level.
As an example....a 6 inch statuette of a normal scaled human model would cost roughly 80-100 to be printed in plastic (similar to a single one of my cheerleaders). This is not out of the realm of reality (it actually is only slightly more expensive than model kits and it could be painted as well though those tend to be larger scale)....and this is without any deals being made with the printing company. I know that some deals will lower the price by 10-30% (worked for a company that made a deal) So MWM charges 100 bucks for the 6 inch statuette and profits the rest to offset the cost of design.
Like I said, this is a great idea...its just that it can't be done the way that the OP suggested.
I'm Necro'ing this thread because I am almost finished a little personal project.
I have been working on a heroine off and on for a while now with the intention I will get it 3d printed. When I got to the point where I could do test uploads to ensure pricing and ability to print I figured I would show the result here to resurrect the idea of using 3D printed models of our characters for CoT promotion.
Before I show my work.... which has NO connection to MWM or CoT at all..... I want to say the model is not 100% complete. I have to tighten some things up to make them look better. I also want to say I am a self taught amateur so do not expect an extremely high quality model. I just want to show off a little as well as support an idea that I think MWM could take advantage of.
Here is a link to a much larger and higher definition picture
[url=http://i.imgur.com/TbZzaKl.jpg]Heroine[/url]
And here is a small picture if you don't wanna link to the big one...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/31yduqU.jpg[/img]
Is that a sculpture or a drawing? It looks really well-made to me either way. If you're accepting criticism, I think it looks great, but I think the waist is too thin. Maybe it's just me, I don't know. I'm male and heterosexual and I like attractive women as much as the next guy, but that looks unrealistically small for a waist, to me, given the other proportions.
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Its a 3d model. Similar to ones you would find in games.
Heh.....I would be pretty deluded to think that people would not offer their opinion on the image. Its fine to offer your opinion as long as you realize there may be a reason...be it artistic or nature of the end product....that it looks the way it does.
For example, the waist is smaller that a realistic human would have because I am mirroring the inhuman curves of traditional comic heroines. There is also an issue of perspective as well.....the angle of the camera makes the waist appear slightly further back than other parts giving it the illusion of it being smaller than it actually is. Finally, the skirt does not properly fit which in turn makes the waist seem even smaller. Its a combination of artistic choice, perspective and an incomplete model that make the waist seem so out of proportion.
There is also the cape....it seems unnaturally thick....this is because 3d printing requires a certain 'thickness' in order to properly print.
I have been designing 3d printable models for close to 5 years now and all I can say is that what you see in a static image does not fully represent what you will see in the printed form....it took me a lot of time to understand that perfect human proportions do not translate well to a statue of a smaller nature. Arms, legs, head size, breast size, hands and feet all need to be larger than human proportions to give definition to those areas. This becomes more obvious the smaller the model gets.
All of that said, I am less interested in what people think of my model than they do of the idea that MWM can offer 3d printed models of characters we create in the game.
If they can solve the game 3D-model to print 3D-model problem in a way that doesn't take too much resources away and give us a large enough portion of the CC to use then I wouldn't mind
There is no way they can offer the vast number of options the in game costume creator will provide without it becoming an overwhelming task. There would need to be a truncated version of the costume creator that includes costume and body options that are the most broadly appealing. Instead of 50 different styles of gloves, you have 5 for example. Probably the best costume parts to use in this are those with 3 dimensional aspects....pants with designs on them or tops with texture as examples. The reason why is the models will most likely be printed in a single solid color so to give the model depth and possibly for painting there should be an easily recognizable difference between bare skin and clothing.
There are other ways 3d printed models of our characters could be used in addition to decorative statues. I know heroclix are open to special promotions items, roleplaying games can always use miniatures and there are many card game life counters dials that allow people to put their own models atop them to name a few possibilities.
This is not just a way for MWM to earn before release but can also offer a profit avenue after release. This may never be a huge seller but it could provide some earnings as well as be something that can be used for promotional give-aways and prizes.
I fully understand that there are limitations to the level of detail that can be achieved in 3D printing and that's why I said "large enough", not all not vast, since if this is going to justify it's existence then I believe most need to be able to make a resonable approximation of their character instead of having it at the level of "generic hero/villain variant #27".
To be fair, 3d printing can be done at the micron level now. So its less an issue of detail level and more one of time/effort investment as you say.
I was not minimizing your point with my reply I was expanding upon it. I was trying to explain what I felt would be the way to maximize the time and effort initially so that the end result....the 3d printed item itself... looked the best.
If this suggestion was adopted by MWM and if they found it a profitable experience then I would expect they would expand upon the model options when they could even after the games release. I would also expect that if this was a for profit endeavor then they would hire someone to actually do the printable 3d modeling (someone better than me to be sure). Freelance artists could be hired on a case by case basis fairly easily and for a moderate cost (comparatively) because the model would not need articulation or textures. It would be a pure 3d model.
Those are some pretty big 'ifs' though.